Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?

[JohnnyFan]

And why should the government use OUR money to pay to develop "natural talent" anymore than they should have paid for my daughter to become a teacher or my son an electrician? The government has no business in 90% of the things they "fund". The federal budget is nothing more than a shell game, an opportunity for career politicians to get RICH conning taxpayers when the only people they are really there to please is BIG MONEY. And that is from both sides of the aisle. D.C. needs to be cleaned out and it might be too late to do that. We shall see.

I agree with you about the government being a leviathan with an insatiable appetite for its subjects liberty and property, and that that is an abomination and antithetical to the idea of a free and representative republic. But let's be real: the government does pay for daughters and sons to become teachers and electricians through guaranteed student loans and grants and subsidies and tax breaks for "non profit" colleges and now in New York "free" tuition. The problem with government subsidies for the arts - and I say this as the proud owner of several music degrees and the jagged repulsive teeth of a professional saxophone player - is that when the government picks winners and losers in the arts not only does it picks losers - that is, in the main it subsidizes bad art - but the philistines who do the picking choose art that's offensive to the values that the government should be promulgating. Consider: the federal government sponsored an art exhibit that submerged the baby jesus in a vat of urine; the state government sponsored an art exhibit that portrayed the mother of the baby jesus festooned in dung ("art" which recently sold for 5 million dollars at auction btw). And meanwhile a painting of the baby jesus not in dung and not submerged in any bodily fluids left outside a mosque on Long Island is being investigated as a hate crime. If I painted a picture of the prophet M__h____d using my own feces I'd be prosecuted and then murdered by zealots. Whereas if I painted a similar picture of Pope Leo XII I'd win various awards. That's the problem with funding the arts: no one knows what art is and least of all civil servants.

No, government needs to get out of funding the arts because it is not their business. Personally, I couldn't care less about bad art because I was blessed with the common sense to ignore it. I am a Christian and find the "art" referenced to be abhorrent but couldn't care less about it; now the political climate that allows the hypocrisy you cite is a different story altogether. That is real, downright scary and oversimplifying things a bit, is why Trump is sitting in the White House right now. I said multiple times prior to the election that the most important thing about Trump was that he was probably the only person who could have stopped the Bush/Clinton/Obama/leftist/RINO sellout to the globalist movement. That is the single most reason that D.C., including MANY Republicans, are acting in concert to discredit him, stall his agenda, invented the Russian collusion, etc. It remains astounding to me that in clear sight Clinton/Obama brokered the uranium deal with Russia that made both an absolute boatload of money but seemingly intelligent people are comfortably happy to ignore that. Hillary in full sight and now indisputably documented broke EXTREMELY vital national security laws, laws that have people in prison for serious time for a fraction of what she did; yet those same "intelligent" people seemingly just don't care. Pretty much as undeniable is Obama and his administration abused and turned the intelligence communities to their own use, acting in HIS interest even after he left office, ignoring all rule of law fragrantly and in plain sight and what does the media say about that? NOTHING, but let Trump tweet and watch the hysteria. I could go on and on but the fact is this country is at a very serious crossroads; very serious and it has the same NOTHING to do with Democrat vs. Republican. It is whether we stay a sovereign self determining democratic republic or enough people are conned or brainwashed or imported to turn us into just more fodder for the elite globalists.

You are taking great liberties as you tell the Russian uranium deal story.

I am posting a link to a piece published by Politifact. Although it is not the end-all-be-all source, it does describe the issue with some indisputable facts, and also describes why many think it was (and may have been) corrupt.

Link: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...hecking-donald-trumps-tweets-about-hillary-c/

I am taking no liberties, if you are getting your info from Politifact or CNN, or NBC, etc. you are brainwashed. They are not objective reporters of fact they are propagandists. Propagandists who promote a movement, not the truth, in fact they have no truth, that have marching orders: as dirty as any "media" anywhere.

Again, Logen, I am aware that all major media outlets have bias. Even your source of choice, whatever that may be, has a lean. This is not ground breaking information. Declaring those with opposing views as "brainwashed" is essentially a refusal to engage in cerebral discourse. No problem.

I am not sure if you read the piece I suggested, but it is not one sided. Conversely, I am afraid your take on the situation reads like a President Trump tweet. Of course, I do realize it is possible that you accept his tweets to be an accurate source of information.

FInally, I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton and have no desire to defend her. I voted for her only because I believed her opponent to be unfit for the office from a psychiatric and human decency standpoint. At this point, Hillary and Obama are merely tools of distraction for those wanting to camflauge the ineptness of our current president.

 

[stjohnschris]

And one other thing: out to dinner tonight with a high school friend of mine who I reconnected with after many years. The guy is musician. He said to me "Mark, you know many musician friends I lost when they found out I was a Republican?". I said "Jim, obviously they weren't real friends to begin with. You're better off without them". A friend of mine's niece plays college basketball for one of the local teams. Not going to mention the school. At dinner a few months back she said to me "I could never let anyone on my team know I'm a republican or I'd be made to be an outcast. They hate Republicans at my school and especially on the team. I have to keep that to myself". Imagine that? A college kid afraid to mention her political affiliation, and right here in NYC, the city of tolerance. And on the campus of a school which is at the forefront of preaching tolerance. These are only two small examples. What a crock of hypocritical bullshit.

I've worked in the music biz my entire adult life...15 years as a touring musician, and the last 10 in more of the business side of things. There's nobody in my very large circle in the Northeast who has openly come out and said they support Trump, not during the campaign and not during his time in office. I know a small handful of them are republican, and as far as I know, are still Republicans. They don't believe our president represents their party well, and that's about as far as that discussion goes. They separate, to some extent, their support of their party and their support of the president. I do know some folks in my business in TN and TX who support the current administration, but they don't wear it on their sleeve. In Nashville, the subject is completely taboo (do a quick google search of where country musicians stand on Trump...you'll see a lot of "crickets"). I have many contacts in Nashville, and with the exception of a small handful of country stars, nobody has come out publicly "for" or "against" anything or anyone. My friends in Nashville say the whole thing is too "toxic" to touch, and it would potentially undermine business relations, and alienate fan bases in a fickle industry. New York music and arts business is loud and clear about their opposition. For my part, I'll admit that I had more tolerance in January than I do now (yes, I'm a Dem).

Its easy to be loud and clear about your opposition when you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, and when it doesn't effect your pocket, which is the case for the NYC music and arts business.

Not even remotely close to true...just the mere threat of budget cuts for government arts funding from the current administration has affected my pocket and many many others. Very few people truly understand just how fragile music, theater, film, and the visual arts business is. Everyone expects to be able to go see a Broadway show, a Billy Joel concert, a ground breaking cutting edge indie film, or an exciting emerging sculptor, but the willingness to fund/support all of the infrastructure needed to nurture and develop natural talent is severely lacking.

Don't think we're talking about the same thing here. You think the cast of Hamilton calls out the Vice President of the United States during a show in a Republican town? Or a Democratic leader in this town? They wouldn't
, because it would effect ticket sales. As for taxpayers funding artists, what's your thoughts on your tax dollars going to support the "work of art"(I use that term very loosely) below. Better yet, what's your thoughts on the artist being permitted to exhibit such a repulsive piece of garbage in public? Because you can best be sure that the liberal left in this town who supported this clown would be tearing NYC apart if this was another religion being desecrated. Quoting the great Panther "hypocrisy at it's finest".


[attachment]PissChrist.jpg[/attachment]

We're already miles behind every European country when it comes to supporting the arts, and when public schools start cutting budgets, the arts are often the first to go. This is decades in the making, where our country struggles to promote true appreciation of music, dance, theater and visual arts. Ask any musician if their craft is better appreciated in Europe or the US. I can appreciate that something like that is not a big concern to you, or that you recognize this, but feel it's not a priority. I get it. You're taking the time to point out two examples of art that you disagree with, which is totally fine as well. Go ahead and pull all government funded or supported programs and see where we are at in 50 years. I realize this that a college sports message board is not a great place to have this discussion, but it's frustrating to to read comments that are so far off base, especially when I know, first hand for 25 years, how my business works (and doesn't work!)

 

[JohnnyFan]

And one other thing: out to dinner tonight with a high school friend of mine who I reconnected with after many years. The guy is musician. He said to me "Mark, you know many musician friends I lost when they found out I was a Republican?". I said "Jim, obviously they weren't real friends to begin with. You're better off without them". A friend of mine's niece plays college basketball for one of the local teams. Not going to mention the school. At dinner a few months back she said to me "I could never let anyone on my team know I'm a republican or I'd be made to be an outcast. They hate Republicans at my school and especially on the team. I have to keep that to myself". Imagine that? A college kid afraid to mention her political affiliation, and right here in NYC, the city of tolerance. And on the campus of a school which is at the forefront of preaching tolerance. These are only two small examples. What a crock of hypocritical bullshit.

I've worked in the music biz my entire adult life...15 years as a touring musician, and the last 10 in more of the business side of things. There's nobody in my very large circle in the Northeast who has openly come out and said they support Trump, not during the campaign and not during his time in office. I know a small handful of them are republican, and as far as I know, are still Republicans. They don't believe our president represents their party well, and that's about as far as that discussion goes. They separate, to some extent, their support of their party and their support of the president. I do know some folks in my business in TN and TX who support the current administration, but they don't wear it on their sleeve. In Nashville, the subject is completely taboo (do a quick google search of where country musicians stand on Trump...you'll see a lot of "crickets"). I have many contacts in Nashville, and with the exception of a small handful of country stars, nobody has come out publicly "for" or "against" anything or anyone. My friends in Nashville say the whole thing is too "toxic" to touch, and it would potentially undermine business relations, and alienate fan bases in a fickle industry. New York music and arts business is loud and clear about their opposition. For my part, I'll admit that I had more tolerance in January than I do now (yes, I'm a Dem).

Its easy to be loud and clear about your opposition when you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, and when it doesn't effect your pocket, which is the case for the NYC music and arts business.

Not even remotely close to true...just the mere threat of budget cuts for government arts funding from the current administration has affected my pocket and many many others. Very few people truly understand just how fragile music, theater, film, and the visual arts business is. Everyone expects to be able to go see a Broadway show, a Billy Joel concert, a ground breaking cutting edge indie film, or an exciting emerging sculptor, but the willingness to fund/support all of the infrastructure needed to nurture and develop natural talent is severely lacking.

Don't think we're talking about the same thing here. You think the cast of Hamilton calls out the Vice President of the United States during a show in a Republican town? Or a Democratic leader in this town? They wouldn't
, because it would effect ticket sales. As for taxpayers funding artists, what's your thoughts on your tax dollars going to support the "work of art"(I use that term very loosely) below. Better yet, what's your thoughts on the artist being permitted to exhibit such a repulsive piece of garbage in public? Because you can best be sure that the liberal left in this town who supported this clown would be tearing NYC apart if this was another religion being desecrated. Quoting the great Panther "hypocrisy at it's finest".


[attachment]PissChrist.jpg[/attachment]

We're already miles behind every European country when it comes to supporting the arts, and when public schools start cutting budgets, the arts are often the first to go. This is decades in the making, where our country struggles to promote true appreciation of music, dance, theater and visual arts. Ask any musician if their craft is better appreciated in Europe or the US. I can appreciate that something like that is not a big concern to you, or that you recognize this, but feel it's not a priority. I get it. You're taking the time to point out two examples of art that you disagree with, which is totally fine as well. Go ahead and pull all government funded or supported programs and see where we are at in 50 years. I realize this that a college sports message board is not a great place to have this discussion, but it's frustrating to to read comments that are so far off base, especially when I know, first hand for 25 years, how my business works (and doesn't work!)

I do agree that support for the arts should be sustained in public schools kindergarten through 12th grade. However, I am opposed to subsidizing beyond that (not sure if this even happens). I would rather see it go to something like infrastructure improvement. And I honestly do appreciate the arts.

 

[monte]

And one other thing: out to dinner tonight with a high school friend of mine who I reconnected with after many years. The guy is musician. He said to me "Mark, you know many musician friends I lost when they found out I was a Republican?". I said "Jim, obviously they weren't real friends to begin with. You're better off without them". A friend of mine's niece plays college basketball for one of the local teams. Not going to mention the school. At dinner a few months back she said to me "I could never let anyone on my team know I'm a republican or I'd be made to be an outcast. They hate Republicans at my school and especially on the team. I have to keep that to myself". Imagine that? A college kid afraid to mention her political affiliation, and right here in NYC, the city of tolerance. And on the campus of a school which is at the forefront of preaching tolerance. These are only two small examples. What a crock of hypocritical bullshit.

I've worked in the music biz my entire adult life...15 years as a touring musician, and the last 10 in more of the business side of things. There's nobody in my very large circle in the Northeast who has openly come out and said they support Trump, not during the campaign and not during his time in office. I know a small handful of them are republican, and as far as I know, are still Republicans. They don't believe our president represents their party well, and that's about as far as that discussion goes. They separate, to some extent, their support of their party and their support of the president. I do know some folks in my business in TN and TX who support the current administration, but they don't wear it on their sleeve. In Nashville, the subject is completely taboo (do a quick google search of where country musicians stand on Trump...you'll see a lot of "crickets"). I have many contacts in Nashville, and with the exception of a small handful of country stars, nobody has come out publicly "for" or "against" anything or anyone. My friends in Nashville say the whole thing is too "toxic" to touch, and it would potentially undermine business relations, and alienate fan bases in a fickle industry. New York music and arts business is loud and clear about their opposition. For my part, I'll admit that I had more tolerance in January than I do now (yes, I'm a Dem).

Its easy to be loud and clear about your opposition when you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, and when it doesn't effect your pocket, which is the case for the NYC music and arts business.

Not even remotely close to true...just the mere threat of budget cuts for government arts funding from the current administration has affected my pocket and many many others. Very few people truly understand just how fragile music, theater, film, and the visual arts business is. Everyone expects to be able to go see a Broadway show, a Billy Joel concert, a ground breaking cutting edge indie film, or an exciting emerging sculptor, but the willingness to fund/support all of the infrastructure needed to nurture and develop natural talent is severely lacking.

Don't think we're talking about the same thing here. You think the cast of Hamilton calls out the Vice President of the United States during a show in a Republican town? Or a Democratic leader in this town? They wouldn't
, because it would effect ticket sales. As for taxpayers funding artists, what's your thoughts on your tax dollars going to support the "work of art"(I use that term very loosely) below. Better yet, what's your thoughts on the artist being permitted to exhibit such a repulsive piece of garbage in public? Because you can best be sure that the liberal left in this town who supported this clown would be tearing NYC apart if this was another religion being desecrated. Quoting the great Panther "hypocrisy at it's finest".


[attachment]PissChrist.jpg[/attachment]

We're already miles behind every European country when it comes to supporting the arts, and when public schools start cutting budgets, the arts are often the first to go. This is decades in the making, where our country struggles to promote true appreciation of music, dance, theater and visual arts. Ask any musician if their craft is better appreciated in Europe or the US. I can appreciate that something like that is not a big concern to you, or that you recognize this, but feel it's not a priority. I get it. You're taking the time to point out two examples of art that you disagree with, which is totally fine as well. Go ahead and pull all government funded or supported programs and see where we are at in 50 years. I realize this that a college sports message board is not a great place to have this discussion, but it's frustrating to to read comments that are so far off base, especially when I know, first hand for 25 years, how my business works (and doesn't work!)

And I can appreciate and respect your point of view as well. But tell me, which comments of mine are off base at all, let alone "so far off base"? I'm expressing my opinion. Just like you're expressing yours.

 

[stjohnschris]

And one other thing: out to dinner tonight with a high school friend of mine who I reconnected with after many years. The guy is musician. He said to me "Mark, you know many musician friends I lost when they found out I was a Republican?". I said "Jim, obviously they weren't real friends to begin with. You're better off without them". A friend of mine's niece plays college basketball for one of the local teams. Not going to mention the school. At dinner a few months back she said to me "I could never let anyone on my team know I'm a republican or I'd be made to be an outcast. They hate Republicans at my school and especially on the team. I have to keep that to myself". Imagine that? A college kid afraid to mention her political affiliation, and right here in NYC, the city of tolerance. And on the campus of a school which is at the forefront of preaching tolerance. These are only two small examples. What a crock of hypocritical bullshit.

I've worked in the music biz my entire adult life...15 years as a touring musician, and the last 10 in more of the business side of things. There's nobody in my very large circle in the Northeast who has openly come out and said they support Trump, not during the campaign and not during his time in office. I know a small handful of them are republican, and as far as I know, are still Republicans. They don't believe our president represents their party well, and that's about as far as that discussion goes. They separate, to some extent, their support of their party and their support of the president. I do know some folks in my business in TN and TX who support the current administration, but they don't wear it on their sleeve. In Nashville, the subject is completely taboo (do a quick google search of where country musicians stand on Trump...you'll see a lot of "crickets"). I have many contacts in Nashville, and with the exception of a small handful of country stars, nobody has come out publicly "for" or "against" anything or anyone. My friends in Nashville say the whole thing is too "toxic" to touch, and it would potentially undermine business relations, and alienate fan bases in a fickle industry. New York music and arts business is loud and clear about their opposition. For my part, I'll admit that I had more tolerance in January than I do now (yes, I'm a Dem).

Its easy to be loud and clear about your opposition when you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, and when it doesn't effect your pocket, which is the case for the NYC music and arts business.

Not even remotely close to true...just the mere threat of budget cuts for government arts funding from the current administration has affected my pocket and many many others. Very few people truly understand just how fragile music, theater, film, and the visual arts business is. Everyone expects to be able to go see a Broadway show, a Billy Joel concert, a ground breaking cutting edge indie film, or an exciting emerging sculptor, but the willingness to fund/support all of the infrastructure needed to nurture and develop natural talent is severely lacking.

Don't think we're talking about the same thing here. You think the cast of Hamilton calls out the Vice President of the United States during a show in a Republican town? Or a Democratic leader in this town? They wouldn't
, because it would effect ticket sales. As for taxpayers funding artists, what's your thoughts on your tax dollars going to support the "work of art"(I use that term very loosely) below. Better yet, what's your thoughts on the artist being permitted to exhibit such a repulsive piece of garbage in public? Because you can best be sure that the liberal left in this town who supported this clown would be tearing NYC apart if this was another religion being desecrated. Quoting the great Panther "hypocrisy at it's finest".


[attachment]PissChrist.jpg[/attachment]

We're already miles behind every European country when it comes to supporting the arts, and when public schools start cutting budgets, the arts are often the first to go. This is decades in the making, where our country struggles to promote true appreciation of music, dance, theater and visual arts. Ask any musician if their craft is better appreciated in Europe or the US. I can appreciate that something like that is not a big concern to you, or that you recognize this, but feel it's not a priority. I get it. You're taking the time to point out two examples of art that you disagree with, which is totally fine as well. Go ahead and pull all government funded or supported programs and see where we are at in 50 years. I realize this that a college sports message board is not a great place to have this discussion, but it's frustrating to to read comments that are so far off base, especially when I know, first hand for 25 years, how my business works (and doesn't work!)

And I can appreciate and respect your point of view as well. But tell me, which comments of mine are off base at all, let alone "so far off base"? I'm expressing my opinion. Just like you're expressing yours.

Was referring to the overall comments to this portion of the thread, not specifically your opinions (Monte). If I'm not mistaken I might have even been called out as Puff Daddy earlier? Love that, my cover is blown!...Again, it's a sports message board, I'm on the younger side of the age curve on this board, I'm a democrat, and I work in an industry that likely nobody else does on this board..one that I'm passionate about. Some of my thoughts are opinions, sure, but many are actual facts of how full time professional musicians, actors, painters, dancers ended up performing on stage in front of "anyone of us" reading this message board. Somewhere in the chain for many performers were key moments that hinged on: public school budgets, international cultural exchanges, poetry festivals, armed forces entertainment, prof dance troop residencies in underserved schools, NEA grants and scholarships, American Music Abroad (music ambassadors)...to name just a few, all of these tied to Government funding in one way or another. Involvement in the arts for kids, teens, and even 20 somethings benefits everyone. It's not about finding the next star, it's about providing the exposure, education, and opportunity. Anyone reading this can do a quick google search about studies linking the arts with better school performance, less crime, better behavior, better mental health. For many it will just be a hobby, but for some it will be a calling and a career. I won't go on, because it's just not the right forum, but I hope you can see the cause for alarm when the proposed budget by the administration includes the elimination of the NEA (National Endowment of the Arts) and NEH (National Endowment of Humanities). Just the prospect of that has affected my world (that's not an opinion), and whether you choose to believe it or not, over time, would affect your life or at minimum, your quality of life.

 

[monte]

And one other thing: out to dinner tonight with a high school friend of mine who I reconnected with after many years. The guy is musician. He said to me "Mark, you know many musician friends I lost when they found out I was a Republican?". I said "Jim, obviously they weren't real friends to begin with. You're better off without them". A friend of mine's niece plays college basketball for one of the local teams. Not going to mention the school. At dinner a few months back she said to me "I could never let anyone on my team know I'm a republican or I'd be made to be an outcast. They hate Republicans at my school and especially on the team. I have to keep that to myself". Imagine that? A college kid afraid to mention her political affiliation, and right here in NYC, the city of tolerance. And on the campus of a school which is at the forefront of preaching tolerance. These are only two small examples. What a crock of hypocritical bullshit.

I've worked in the music biz my entire adult life...15 years as a touring musician, and the last 10 in more of the business side of things. There's nobody in my very large circle in the Northeast who has openly come out and said they support Trump, not during the campaign and not during his time in office. I know a small handful of them are republican, and as far as I know, are still Republicans. They don't believe our president represents their party well, and that's about as far as that discussion goes. They separate, to some extent, their support of their party and their support of the president. I do know some folks in my business in TN and TX who support the current administration, but they don't wear it on their sleeve. In Nashville, the subject is completely taboo (do a quick google search of where country musicians stand on Trump...you'll see a lot of "crickets"). I have many contacts in Nashville, and with the exception of a small handful of country stars, nobody has come out publicly "for" or "against" anything or anyone. My friends in Nashville say the whole thing is too "toxic" to touch, and it would potentially undermine business relations, and alienate fan bases in a fickle industry. New York music and arts business is loud and clear about their opposition. For my part, I'll admit that I had more tolerance in January than I do now (yes, I'm a Dem).

Its easy to be loud and clear about your opposition when you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, and when it doesn't effect your pocket, which is the case for the NYC music and arts business.

Not even remotely close to true...just the mere threat of budget cuts for government arts funding from the current administration has affected my pocket and many many others. Very few people truly understand just how fragile music, theater, film, and the visual arts business is. Everyone expects to be able to go see a Broadway show, a Billy Joel concert, a ground breaking cutting edge indie film, or an exciting emerging sculptor, but the willingness to fund/support all of the infrastructure needed to nurture and develop natural talent is severely lacking.

Don't think we're talking about the same thing here. You think the cast of Hamilton calls out the Vice President of the United States during a show in a Republican town? Or a Democratic leader in this town? They wouldn't
, because it would effect ticket sales. As for taxpayers funding artists, what's your thoughts on your tax dollars going to support the "work of art"(I use that term very loosely) below. Better yet, what's your thoughts on the artist being permitted to exhibit such a repulsive piece of garbage in public? Because you can best be sure that the liberal left in this town who supported this clown would be tearing NYC apart if this was another religion being desecrated. Quoting the great Panther "hypocrisy at it's finest".


[attachment]PissChrist.jpg[/attachment]

We're already miles behind every European country when it comes to supporting the arts, and when public schools start cutting budgets, the arts are often the first to go. This is decades in the making, where our country struggles to promote true appreciation of music, dance, theater and visual arts. Ask any musician if their craft is better appreciated in Europe or the US. I can appreciate that something like that is not a big concern to you, or that you recognize this, but feel it's not a priority. I get it. You're taking the time to point out two examples of art that you disagree with, which is totally fine as well. Go ahead and pull all government funded or supported programs and see where we are at in 50 years. I realize this that a college sports message board is not a great place to have this discussion, but it's frustrating to to read comments that are so far off base, especially when I know, first hand for 25 years, how my business works (and doesn't work!)

And I can appreciate and respect your point of view as well. But tell me, which comments of mine are off base at all, let alone "so far off base"? I'm expressing my opinion. Just like you're expressing yours.

Was referring to the overall comments to this portion of the thread, not specifically your opinions (Monte). If I'm not mistaken I might have even been called out as Puff Daddy earlier? Love that, my cover is blown!...Again, it's a sports message board, I'm on the younger side of the age curve on this board, I'm a democrat, and I work in an industry that likely nobody else does on this board..one that I'm passionate about. Some of my thoughts are opinions, sure, but many are actual facts of how full time professional musicians, actors, painters, dancers ended up performing on stage in front of "anyone of us" reading this message board. Somewhere in the chain for many performers were key moments that hinged on: public school budgets, international cultural exchanges, poetry festivals, armed forces entertainment, prof dance troop residencies in underserved schools, NEA grants and scholarships, American Music Abroad (music ambassadors)...to name just a few, all of these tied to Government funding in one way or another. Involvement in the arts for kids, teens, and even 20 somethings benefits everyone. It's not about finding the next star, it's about providing the exposure, education, and opportunity. Anyone reading this can do a quick google search about studies linking the arts with better school performance, less crime, better behavior, better mental health. For many it will just be a hobby, but for some it will be a calling and a career. I won't go on, because it's just not the right forum, but I hope you can see the cause for alarm when the proposed budget by the administration includes the elimination of the NEA (National Endowment of the Arts) and NEH (National Endowment of Humanities). Just the prospect of that has affected my world (that's not an opinion), and whether you choose to believe it or not, over time, would affect your life or at minimum, your quality of life.

I agree with much of what you're saying. FYI I took dance as a kid for 10 years. My parents, who had little money, paid for lessons for me and my 3 siblings. I also acted in school plays like so many others. I get all the benefits of the arts. In fact, the benefits are very similar to those of sports. So should our tax dollars go to pay for recreational sports for people in to adulthood?

 

[panther2]

And one other thing: out to dinner tonight with a high school friend of mine who I reconnected with after many years. The guy is musician. He said to me "Mark, you know many musician friends I lost when they found out I was a Republican?". I said "Jim, obviously they weren't real friends to begin with. You're better off without them". A friend of mine's niece plays college basketball for one of the local teams. Not going to mention the school. At dinner a few months back she said to me "I could never let anyone on my team know I'm a republican or I'd be made to be an outcast. They hate Republicans at my school and especially on the team. I have to keep that to myself". Imagine that? A college kid afraid to mention her political affiliation, and right here in NYC, the city of tolerance. And on the campus of a school which is at the forefront of preaching tolerance. These are only two small examples. What a crock of hypocritical bullshit.

I've worked in the music biz my entire adult life...15 years as a touring musician, and the last 10 in more of the business side of things. There's nobody in my very large circle in the Northeast who has openly come out and said they support Trump, not during the campaign and not during his time in office. I know a small handful of them are republican, and as far as I know, are still Republicans. They don't believe our president represents their party well, and that's about as far as that discussion goes. They separate, to some extent, their support of their party and their support of the president. I do know some folks in my business in TN and TX who support the current administration, but they don't wear it on their sleeve. In Nashville, the subject is completely taboo (do a quick google search of where country musicians stand on Trump...you'll see a lot of "crickets"). I have many contacts in Nashville, and with the exception of a small handful of country stars, nobody has come out publicly "for" or "against" anything or anyone. My friends in Nashville say the whole thing is too "toxic" to touch, and it would potentially undermine business relations, and alienate fan bases in a fickle industry. New York music and arts business is loud and clear about their opposition. For my part, I'll admit that I had more tolerance in January than I do now (yes, I'm a Dem).

Its easy to be loud and clear about your opposition when you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, and when it doesn't effect your pocket, which is the case for the NYC music and arts business.

Not even remotely close to true...just the mere threat of budget cuts for government arts funding from the current administration has affected my pocket and many many others. Very few people truly understand just how fragile music, theater, film, and the visual arts business is. Everyone expects to be able to go see a Broadway show, a Billy Joel concert, a ground breaking cutting edge indie film, or an exciting emerging sculptor, but the willingness to fund/support all of the infrastructure needed to nurture and develop natural talent is severely lacking.

Don't think we're talking about the same thing here. You think the cast of Hamilton calls out the Vice President of the United States during a show in a Republican town? Or a Democratic leader in this town? They wouldn't
, because it would effect ticket sales. As for taxpayers funding artists, what's your thoughts on your tax dollars going to support the "work of art"(I use that term very loosely) below. Better yet, what's your thoughts on the artist being permitted to exhibit such a repulsive piece of garbage in public? Because you can best be sure that the liberal left in this town who supported this clown would be tearing NYC apart if this was another religion being desecrated. Quoting the great Panther "hypocrisy at it's finest".


[attachment]PissChrist.jpg[/attachment]

We're already miles behind every European country when it comes to supporting the arts, and when public schools start cutting budgets, the arts are often the first to go. This is decades in the making, where our country struggles to promote true appreciation of music, dance, theater and visual arts. Ask any musician if their craft is better appreciated in Europe or the US. I can appreciate that something like that is not a big concern to you, or that you recognize this, but feel it's not a priority. I get it. You're taking the time to point out two examples of art that you disagree with, which is totally fine as well. Go ahead and pull all government funded or supported programs and see where we are at in 50 years. I realize this that a college sports message board is not a great place to have this discussion, but it's frustrating to to read comments that are so far off base, especially when I know, first hand for 25 years, how my business works (and doesn't work!)

And I can appreciate and respect your point of view as well. But tell me, which comments of mine are off base at all, let alone "so far off base"? I'm expressing my opinion. Just like you're expressing yours.

Was referring to the overall comments to this portion of the thread, not specifically your opinions (Monte). If I'm not mistaken I might have even been called out as Puff Daddy earlier? Love that, my cover is blown!...Again, it's a sports message board, I'm on the younger side of the age curve on this board, I'm a democrat, and I work in an industry that likely nobody else does on this board..one that I'm passionate about. Some of my thoughts are opinions, sure, but many are actual facts of how full time professional musicians, actors, painters, dancers ended up performing on stage in front of "anyone of us" reading this message board. Somewhere in the chain for many performers were key moments that hinged on: public school budgets, international cultural exchanges, poetry festivals, armed forces entertainment, prof dance troop residencies in underserved schools, NEA grants and scholarships, American Music Abroad (music ambassadors)...to name just a few, all of these tied to Government funding in one way or another. Involvement in the arts for kids, teens, and even 20 somethings benefits everyone. It's not about finding the next star, it's about providing the exposure, education, and opportunity. Anyone reading this can do a quick google search about studies linking the arts with better school performance, less crime, better behavior, better mental health. For many it will just be a hobby, but for some it will be a calling and a career. I won't go on, because it's just not the right forum, but I hope you can see the cause for alarm when the proposed budget by the administration includes the elimination of the NEA (National Endowment of the Arts) and NEH (National Endowment of Humanities). Just the prospect of that has affected my world (that's not an opinion), and whether you choose to believe it or not, over time, would affect your life or at minimum, your quality of life.

I agree with much of what you're saying. FYI I took dance as a kid for 10 years. My parents, who had little money, paid for lessons for me and my 3 siblings. I also acted in school plays like so many others. I get all the benefits of the arts. In fact, the benefits are very similar to those of sports. So should our tax dollars go to pay for recreational sports for people in to adulthood?

Our tax dollars already pay for sports Monte. Whose money is used when new stadiums and arenas are built, ours. Owners threaten to move to other cities if stadiums are not but. Then they receive tax breaks. Professional franchises are worth millions of dollars but the owners don't want to pay for stadiums and arenas. The average per can't even afford to attend the games at a stadium his taxes helped build, It would cost a family of 4 about $600.00 to attend a sporting event. Many middle class people don't have that kind of money to spend on one game. City schools have athletic teams but no music programs. That just does not make sense.

 

[monte]

And one other thing: out to dinner tonight with a high school friend of mine who I reconnected with after many years. The guy is musician. He said to me "Mark, you know many musician friends I lost when they found out I was a Republican?". I said "Jim, obviously they weren't real friends to begin with. You're better off without them". A friend of mine's niece plays college basketball for one of the local teams. Not going to mention the school. At dinner a few months back she said to me "I could never let anyone on my team know I'm a republican or I'd be made to be an outcast. They hate Republicans at my school and especially on the team. I have to keep that to myself". Imagine that? A college kid afraid to mention her political affiliation, and right here in NYC, the city of tolerance. And on the campus of a school which is at the forefront of preaching tolerance. These are only two small examples. What a crock of hypocritical bullshit.

I've worked in the music biz my entire adult life...15 years as a touring musician, and the last 10 in more of the business side of things. There's nobody in my very large circle in the Northeast who has openly come out and said they support Trump, not during the campaign and not during his time in office. I know a small handful of them are republican, and as far as I know, are still Republicans. They don't believe our president represents their party well, and that's about as far as that discussion goes. They separate, to some extent, their support of their party and their support of the president. I do know some folks in my business in TN and TX who support the current administration, but they don't wear it on their sleeve. In Nashville, the subject is completely taboo (do a quick google search of where country musicians stand on Trump...you'll see a lot of "crickets"). I have many contacts in Nashville, and with the exception of a small handful of country stars, nobody has come out publicly "for" or "against" anything or anyone. My friends in Nashville say the whole thing is too "toxic" to touch, and it would potentially undermine business relations, and alienate fan bases in a fickle industry. New York music and arts business is loud and clear about their opposition. For my part, I'll admit that I had more tolerance in January than I do now (yes, I'm a Dem).

Its easy to be loud and clear about your opposition when you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, and when it doesn't effect your pocket, which is the case for the NYC music and arts business.

Not even remotely close to true...just the mere threat of budget cuts for government arts funding from the current administration has affected my pocket and many many others. Very few people truly understand just how fragile music, theater, film, and the visual arts business is. Everyone expects to be able to go see a Broadway show, a Billy Joel concert, a ground breaking cutting edge indie film, or an exciting emerging sculptor, but the willingness to fund/support all of the infrastructure needed to nurture and develop natural talent is severely lacking.

Don't think we're talking about the same thing here. You think the cast of Hamilton calls out the Vice President of the United States during a show in a Republican town? Or a Democratic leader in this town? They wouldn't
, because it would effect ticket sales. As for taxpayers funding artists, what's your thoughts on your tax dollars going to support the "work of art"(I use that term very loosely) below. Better yet, what's your thoughts on the artist being permitted to exhibit such a repulsive piece of garbage in public? Because you can best be sure that the liberal left in this town who supported this clown would be tearing NYC apart if this was another religion being desecrated. Quoting the great Panther "hypocrisy at it's finest".


[attachment]PissChrist.jpg[/attachment]

We're already miles behind every European country when it comes to supporting the arts, and when public schools start cutting budgets, the arts are often the first to go. This is decades in the making, where our country struggles to promote true appreciation of music, dance, theater and visual arts. Ask any musician if their craft is better appreciated in Europe or the US. I can appreciate that something like that is not a big concern to you, or that you recognize this, but feel it's not a priority. I get it. You're taking the time to point out two examples of art that you disagree with, which is totally fine as well. Go ahead and pull all government funded or supported programs and see where we are at in 50 years. I realize this that a college sports message board is not a great place to have this discussion, but it's frustrating to to read comments that are so far off base, especially when I know, first hand for 25 years, how my business works (and doesn't work!)

And I can appreciate and respect your point of view as well. But tell me, which comments of mine are off base at all, let alone "so far off base"? I'm expressing my opinion. Just like you're expressing yours.

Was referring to the overall comments to this portion of the thread, not specifically your opinions (Monte). If I'm not mistaken I might have even been called out as Puff Daddy earlier? Love that, my cover is blown!...Again, it's a sports message board, I'm on the younger side of the age curve on this board, I'm a democrat, and I work in an industry that likely nobody else does on this board..one that I'm passionate about. Some of my thoughts are opinions, sure, but many are actual facts of how full time professional musicians, actors, painters, dancers ended up performing on stage in front of "anyone of us" reading this message board. Somewhere in the chain for many performers were key moments that hinged on: public school budgets, international cultural exchanges, poetry festivals, armed forces entertainment, prof dance troop residencies in underserved schools, NEA grants and scholarships, American Music Abroad (music ambassadors)...to name just a few, all of these tied to Government funding in one way or another. Involvement in the arts for kids, teens, and even 20 somethings benefits everyone. It's not about finding the next star, it's about providing the exposure, education, and opportunity. Anyone reading this can do a quick google search about studies linking the arts with better school performance, less crime, better behavior, better mental health. For many it will just be a hobby, but for some it will be a calling and a career. I won't go on, because it's just not the right forum, but I hope you can see the cause for alarm when the proposed budget by the administration includes the elimination of the NEA (National Endowment of the Arts) and NEH (National Endowment of Humanities). Just the prospect of that has affected my world (that's not an opinion), and whether you choose to believe it or not, over time, would affect your life or at minimum, your quality of life.

I agree with much of what you're saying. FYI I took dance as a kid for 10 years. My parents, who had little money, paid for lessons for me and my 3 siblings. I also acted in school plays like so many others. I get all the benefits of the arts. In fact, the benefits are very similar to those of sports. So should our tax dollars go to pay for recreational sports for people in to adulthood?

Our tax dollars already pay for sports Monte. Whose money is used when new stadiums and arenas are built, ours. Owners threaten to move to other cities if stadiums are not but. Then they receive tax breaks. Professional franchises are worth millions of dollars but the owners don't want to pay for stadiums and arenas. The average per can't even afford to attend the games at a stadium his taxes helped build, It would cost a family of 4 about $600.00 to attend a sporting event. Many middle class people don't have that kind of money to spend on one game. City schools have athletic teams but no music programs. That just does not make sense.

Couldn't agree with you more Panther. It's absurd that our tax dollars go to fund multi millionaires, and then we get priced out of even attending the very same sporting events that our tax dollars support. Its a rotten system. I have not paid to go to a professional sporting event in years. I will rarely even go if it's free. I just feel as though I'd be supporting a corrupt system. I've used Atlanta as an example before. Did the Georgia dome really become obsolete in 25 years??? So much so that the taxpayers needed to fund a new billion dollar stadium? It's totally ridiculous.

 

[austour]

Enthralling conversation, to put it in perspective the NEA budget is 0.003% of the Federal budget, about 1/10 of what the government spends every second.

 

[41ndone]

Why would the republicans not cut spending on the "arts" ?
If "the artists" had not decided they were smarter than the rest of us , and not declared all out war on the center and right, they could have gone on receiving their taxpayer handouts indefinitely.

 

[monte]

Enthralling conversation, to put it in perspective the NEA budget is 0.003% of the Federal budget, about 1/10 of what the government spends every second.

I guess that's one way to spin it. 150 Million is another. And that's just at the federal level. There's the Art councils in the states, and I'm sure some taxpayer funded city agencies as well. Anyhow I've gone off track a bit here. My original point was about the ridiculous double standard by the left when it comes to be offended. "Piss Christ" didn't seem to offend anyone on the left or in the arts here in NYC. Yet those same people seem to be offended by just about everything else. Really wish they'd pick an side of an argument and stick to it.

 

[41ndone]

They did pick a side, the EXTREME LEFT.
All I'm saying is , if you declare war and loose, take it like a man/dyke.

 

[austour]

Here's the thing, I and millions of others don't GAF if you and others are offended by "Piss Christ", Robert Mapplethorpe or "Generation Xcrement". Similarly I'm sure you don't GAF that there's an equal or greater amount of people offended by the size of the defense budget and much of what it is spent on. (NEA represents 0.02% of the total defense budget - that's what they spend in less than 2 hours) Sorry if you find that a double standard, we all have our biases.

 

[fun]

No, government needs to get out of funding the arts because it is not their business. Personally, I couldn't care less about bad art because I was blessed with the common sense to ignore it. I am a Christian and find the "art" referenced to be abhorrent but couldn't care less about it; now the political climate that allows the hypocrisy you cite is a different story altogether. That is real, downright scary and oversimplifying things a bit, is why Trump is sitting in the White House right now. I said multiple times prior to the election that the most important thing about Trump was that he was probably the only person who could have stopped the Bush/Clinton/Obama/leftist/RINO sellout to the globalist movement. That is the single most reason that D.C., including MANY Republicans, are acting in concert to discredit him, stall his agenda, invented the Russian collusion, etc. It remains astounding to me that in clear sight Clinton/Obama brokered the uranium deal with Russia that made both an absolute boatload of money but seemingly intelligent people are comfortably happy to ignore that. Hillary in full sight and now indisputably documented broke EXTREMELY vital national security laws, laws that have people in prison for serious time for a fraction of what she did; yet those same "intelligent" people seemingly just don't care. Pretty much as undeniable is Obama and his administration abused and turned the intelligence communities to their own use, acting in HIS interest even after he left office, ignoring all rule of law fragrantly and in plain sight and what does the media say about that? NOTHING, but let Trump tweet and watch the hysteria. I could go on and on but the fact is this country is at a very serious crossroads; very serious and it has the same NOTHING to do with Democrat vs. Republican. It is whether we stay a sovereign self determining democratic republic or enough people are conned or brainwashed or imported to turn us into just more fodder for the elite globalists.

That's all well and good, but the government's tentacles extend into every facet of domestic and cultural life. In the US 15 percent of the workforce is employed by the federal state and municipal governments; government spending represents 40 percent of the GDP; 50 percent of the population receives some form of government benefits; and 3 percent of the population is under correctional control. That's what's worrisome and compared to that government spending on the arts - 150 million a year - isn't even a rounding error. If that pittance went to people who made good art it would benefit the citizenry and culture more than whatever cockamamie studies and programs the government funds routinely and would continue to fund with or without the NEA. Beethoven had a government patron; so did Mozart; so did Michaelangelo; so did Shakespeare. The problem is that it doesn't: it goes to subversives, hacks and charlatans.

 

[bobo]

Enthralling conversation, to put it in perspective the NEA budget is 0.003% of the Federal budget, about 1/10 of what the government spends every second.

I guess that's one way to spin it. 150 Million is another. And that's just at the federal level. There's the Art councils in the states, and I'm sure some taxpayer funded city agencies as well. Anyhow I've gone off track a bit here. My original point was about the ridiculous double standard by the left when it comes to be offended. "Piss Christ" didn't seem to offend anyone on the left or in the arts here in NYC. Yet those same people seem to be offended by just about everything else. Really wish they'd pick an side of an argument and stick to it.

Plus countless 501c non profit organizations that derive a great deal of income and do not pay any taxes on any income

 

[Red.Fans]

The NEA has received more funding under Republican than Democrat presidents. And when GWB increased NEA funding to record highs, it was after the two government funded Piss Christ incidents. So plenty of hypocrisy to go around and once again a total waste of time on partisan arguments.

Other than a few knee jerk issues like abortion, mob extortion and race baiting, there is very little substantive difference between a Clinton, Bush or Obama. And Republicans thrive on keeping the abortion laws in place because it is a call to arms for their base, just as Democrats thrive on demolishing our educational systems and quality over the past 4 decades and endlessly cry out for more spending. Neither side has the best interests of the country at heart so any arguments of that kind are a waste of time. They are self-serving beasts that the country moves forward despite, not because of. I don't offer any solution but I am certain that it is not found in partisan politics which is just a viscous cycle of nonsense and dividing people into powerlessness to serve other people's ends and bank accounts.

 

[monte]

Here's the thing, I and millions of others don't GAF if you and others are offended by "Piss Christ", Robert Mapplethorpe or "Generation Xcrement". Similarly I'm sure you don't GAF that there's an equal or greater amount of people offended by the size of the defense budget and much of what it is spent on. (NEA represents 0.02% of the total defense budget - that's what they spend in less than 2 hours) Sorry if you find that a double standard, we all have our biases.

I never said that I was offended by that piece of garbage. I have thicker skin than that. Besides what and who offends me is irrelevant. And I would always defend someone's right to offend.. I just said that the left is selective in what offends them. Read more carefully and stop making ASSumptions.

 

[logen]

And why should the government use OUR money to pay to develop "natural talent" anymore than they should have paid for my daughter to become a teacher or my son an electrician? The government has no business in 90% of the things they "fund". The federal budget is nothing more than a shell game, an opportunity for career politicians to get RICH conning taxpayers when the only people they are really there to please is BIG MONEY. And that is from both sides of the aisle. D.C. needs to be cleaned out and it might be too late to do that. We shall see.

I agree with you about the government being a leviathan with an insatiable appetite for its subjects liberty and property, and that that is an abomination and antithetical to the idea of a free and representative republic. But let's be real: the government does pay for daughters and sons to become teachers and electricians through guaranteed student loans and grants and subsidies and tax breaks for "non profit" colleges and now in New York "free" tuition. The problem with government subsidies for the arts - and I say this as the proud owner of several music degrees and the jagged repulsive teeth of a professional saxophone player - is that when the government picks winners and losers in the arts not only does it picks losers - that is, in the main it subsidizes bad art - but the philistines who do the picking choose art that's offensive to the values that the government should be promulgating. Consider: the federal government sponsored an art exhibit that submerged the baby jesus in a vat of urine; the state government sponsored an art exhibit that portrayed the mother of the baby jesus festooned in dung ("art" which recently sold for 5 million dollars at auction btw). And meanwhile a painting of the baby jesus not in dung and not submerged in any bodily fluids left outside a mosque on Long Island is being investigated as a hate crime. If I painted a picture of the prophet M__h____d using my own feces I'd be prosecuted and then murdered by zealots. Whereas if I painted a similar picture of Pope Leo XII I'd win various awards. That's the problem with funding the arts: no one knows what art is and least of all civil servants.

No, government needs to get out of funding the arts because it is not their business. Personally, I couldn't care less about bad art because I was blessed with the common sense to ignore it. I am a Christian and find the "art" referenced to be abhorrent but couldn't care less about it; now the political climate that allows the hypocrisy you cite is a different story altogether. That is real, downright scary and oversimplifying things a bit, is why Trump is sitting in the White House right now. I said multiple times prior to the election that the most important thing about Trump was that he was probably the only person who could have stopped the Bush/Clinton/Obama/leftist/RINO sellout to the globalist movement. That is the single most reason that D.C., including MANY Republicans, are acting in concert to discredit him, stall his agenda, invented the Russian collusion, etc. It remains astounding to me that in clear sight Clinton/Obama brokered the uranium deal with Russia that made both an absolute boatload of money but seemingly intelligent people are comfortably happy to ignore that. Hillary in full sight and now indisputably documented broke EXTREMELY vital national security laws, laws that have people in prison for serious time for a fraction of what she did; yet those same "intelligent" people seemingly just don't care. Pretty much as undeniable is Obama and his administration abused and turned the intelligence communities to their own use, acting in HIS interest even after he left office, ignoring all rule of law fragrantly and in plain sight and what does the media say about that? NOTHING, but let Trump tweet and watch the hysteria. I could go on and on but the fact is this country is at a very serious crossroads; very serious and it has the same NOTHING to do with Democrat vs. Republican. It is whether we stay a sovereign self determining democratic republic or enough people are conned or brainwashed or imported to turn us into just more fodder for the elite globalists.

You are taking great liberties as you tell the Russian uranium deal story.

I am posting a link to a piece published by Politifact. Although it is not the end-all-be-all source, it does describe the issue with some indisputable facts, and also describes why many think it was (and may have been) corrupt.

Link: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...hecking-donald-trumps-tweets-about-hillary-c/

I am taking no liberties, if you are getting your info from Politifact or CNN, or NBC, etc. you are brainwashed. They are not objective reporters of fact they are propagandists. Propagandists who promote a movement, not the truth, in fact they have no truth, that have marching orders: as dirty as any "media" anywhere.

Again, Logen, I am aware that all major media outlets have bias. Even your source of choice, whatever that may be, has a lean. This is not ground breaking information. Declaring those with opposing views as "brainwashed" is essentially a refusal to engage in cerebral discourse. No problem.

I am not sure if you read the piece I suggested, but it is not one sided. Conversely, I am afraid your take on the situation reads like a President Trump tweet. Of course, I do realize it is possible that you accept his tweets to be an accurate source of information.

FInally, I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton and have no desire to defend her. I voted for her only because I believed her opponent to be unfit for the office from a psychiatric and human decency standpoint. At this point, Hillary and Obama are merely tools of distraction for those wanting to camflauge the ineptness of our current president.

No, you are a fan of Hillary Clinton, you voted for her. Trump is unfit but a Secretary of State who left Americans to die undefended in Benghazi and then lied about it is imminently qualified in your eyes. And you talk about human decency!! Words bother you more than actions. Explain the dead bodies that have followed the Clintons since Arkansas and then we can have a cerebral discourse about human decency. Trump is not a politician, never was, so his actions, tweets and otherwise, don't bother me a bit. He gave us a punchers chance to avoid what really bothers me, turning this country over to elitists who have managed to brainwash seemingly intelligent people like you and are hell bent on dragging us down to the rest of the world, a very few haves and a whole lot of have-nots doing their bidding and existing by their rules.

 

[logen]

Here's the thing, I and millions of others don't GAF if you and others are offended by "Piss Christ", Robert Mapplethorpe or "Generation Xcrement". Similarly I'm sure you don't GAF that there's an equal or greater amount of people offended by the size of the defense budget and much of what it is spent on. (NEA represents 0.02% of the total defense budget - that's what they spend in less than 2 hours) Sorry if you find that a double standard, we all have our biases.

You miss a very important point, defense is the governments job, in fact, one of their few jobs according to the Constitution. Supporting the arts is not in their domain along with the overwhelming majority of other things in the national budget. So there is no double standard, just one thing the government should fund and be involved in, and one they shouldn't. And I don't GAF what the "art" is, get private support, a second job, a sugar daddy or momma, whatever. And yes, in the land of pork barrels, the arts is way down on the list.

 

[fuchsia]

The NEA has received more funding under Republican than Democrat presidents. And when GWB increased NEA funding to record highs, it was after the two government funded Piss Christ incidents. So plenty of hypocrisy to go around and once again a total waste of time on partisan arguments.

Other than a few knee jerk issues like abortion, mob extortion and race baiting, there is very little substantive difference between a Clinton, Bush or Obama. And Republicans thrive on keeping the abortion laws in place because it is a call to arms for their base, just as Democrats thrive on demolishing our educational systems and quality over the past 4 decades and endlessly cry out for more spending. Neither side has the best interests of the country at heart so any arguments of that kind are a waste of time. They are self-serving beasts that the country moves forward despite, not because of. I don't offer any solution but I am certain that it is not found in partisan politics which is just a viscous cycle of nonsense and dividing people into powerlessness to serve other people's ends and bank accounts.

Paul, was the use of the word viscous in the last sentence intentional or a typo? Reminded me of an old SNL skit where Ackroyd had a bottle of some vile looking gelatinous mass and was trying to convince his audience that they really needed to buy "Swill".

As for the content, beyond all the ardent positions presented on the board, I begin to suspect that what is going on in the country today is some kind of revenge from the grave by the ultimate malignant soul, Roy Cohn.