Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?

Status
Not open for further replies.
there is an inherent basis for providing vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners to veterans with inadequate access. We have a cruel history of fraud in the VA in which veterans were represented as having proximal access to services through the use of falsified service waiting lists. People on those lists would be better served using vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners

Short of the provision of national security name a service provided by the government to which this statement generally does not apply. Private health care is better than Medicare and Medicaid. Private education is better public education. Down the line, to private garbage collection, which is better than municipal sanitation services. And if you think of one consider how long it took you to think of it and how few and far between. It's like RR said: the nine most terrifying words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Excluding inner city public schools, this is just not true.

Excluding poor people because presumably screw the poor people: the US public education system is the most expensive bureaucratic boondoggle in the history of the universe and produces results that are at best mediocre and behind nearly every country in the first world by every metric imaginable.

Question: who given the choice would send their kids to public school rather than private school if there were no other associated costs? Answer: almost no one. Question: if public schools are so great why are progressives and their teachers union so terrified of school choice? Answer: [strike]think of the children[/strike]. Because without compulsory education enforced at gunpoint enrollment would plummet, meaning democrats would lose their cash cow and their propaganda platform and teachers would lose their tenure and their pensions and their summers off. Question: given the choice would you send your kid to SUNY Purchase or Iona? That one's rhetorical, because if you say Purchase I'll have to call CPS.
 
on the issue of Trump being a tool, i agree

Obama described himself on national television as bowling as well as a special Olympian. Obama - who Harry Reid said was an attractive candidate because he was "light-skinned ... with no Negro dialect" and who Joe Biden called "clean and articulate" - called his grandmother a "typical white person." Obama described bitter ignorant Christians as clinging to their religion. Obama slowed immigration from Iraq in the wake of terrorist threats. Obama spent his entire presidency railing against the one media outlet in the world that did not fawn over him, going to far as to have the justice department investigate reporter James Rosen. When Mitt Romney called Russia the greatest geopolitical threat to the US the left fell over laughing when Obama told him the 80s called and wanted their foreign policy back, remember that, and now the left - the same left that preached moral equivalence between the capitalism and Stalinism - is all aghast about alleged communications between Trump and Putin. Whereas we know for a fact that Ted Kennedy made overtures to the KGB for help in defeating Ronald Reagan in the 1984 election.

The umbrage that the left - the "resistance," what buffoonery - takes at Trump is just another variation on the sanctimonious holier than thou pretension that's the hallmark of leftwing politicking: they are moral, so what they do is good, and anyone who disagrees with them is evil, so what they do is bad. Even if it's the same thing. That's why "elections have consequences," except when they lose.

So a question then: is there a way to have the bulk of the left "shift" their stance without heading straight for Oceania? Or the proverbial writing is on the wall, albeit slightly delayed by DJT?

I think Trump can actually change the left. He'd have to tone down some of his bombastic shit though. I dont care about changing the way radical liberal part of the left. I want to change the reasonable well thought out Johnnyfans and the Fuscia's of the left. I wouldnt expect them to change overnight but if Trump toned down some of his nonsense and worked on issues with the left even if they dont agree on a lot of his stuff but I think he could change 15-20% of democrats from oppose everything to let's see if we can work with him on these issues because maybe he isnt as crazy as we think then I think you just accompished a lot.

That in turn would marginalize the democrats in congress and the senate who try to oppose him on everything. But Trump needs to explain positions better. He doesnt have to be the orator that Obama was and doesnt need a Yuge vocabulary. He just needs to explain things reasonably so that people can understand what he is saying clearly

And at the same time Trump needs to pull away some of these repub's from the far right too and back toward the middle but I think if he doesnt screw this up that he can do it.

Ok then how about this ... he still plays the masterful face of the Tea Party and does what he does normally but (since I am an economist) generates 3.8% gdp growth in 2017 (we have to go back to 2004 when it hit that figure under Bush the Younger , generates 1 million private sector jobs (Reagan averaged 2 million per annum but it rose over time), lowers inflation by a few percentage points, and increases median incomes by some fractional of the horror it went down to. Would that win the left center over? or there are other social and political indicators of interest that would be more convincing?

Great question. First, simultaneously obtaining all of those hypotheticals is relatively unachievable. A president could do a lot worse and still be a undeniable success. That said, I do understand the grandeur is exactly what makes the question so interesting.

So, hypothetically, I would have to embrace any policies that result in such high prosperity and would absolutely advocate for their continuance. I am never going to respect Trump the person and I will never cast a vote for him. That said, given your scenario, I would be insisting any candidate that I do support pledge to continue the conservative policies that proved to be successful. That's my honest answer.

So, if I represent the left-middle, you need to separate yourself from Trump to attract me. If he, and especially his antics, are not attached to the message, I am more of a listener.



Overall the idea is to work on both demand and supply sides simultaneously. Trump should unleash his stimulus soon, which initially exacerbates fed debt but kicks off employment in construction and that in itself has a number of multiplier effects (direct employment and revenue, indirect employment etc in industries that supply construction, and induced effects when new const workers buy in the economy). I presume you know the supply side (smart regulations that lower the costs of production and need not be env damaging).

Have a read at your leisure.
[attachment]eirv23n36-19960906_016-free_trade_is_an_aberration_not.pdf[/attachment]
I'm fine with unleashing stimulus as far as reconstruction spending but what I don't want to see is the govt just throwing money at pet projects with no return on investment other than expecting to see increase in revenues from higher employment etc.

For example Trump talks a lot about airports in the past. Heck LGA is a mess. But LGA is going to reconstruct without the federal govt help though public-private partnership. So I don't want to see Trump throwing money at other senators and congressman on both sides of the aisle for airports unless we are going to get paid back directly from the investment. So I want a direct revenue stream to eventually pay me back. Let them out an additional fee to whatever there already us on each passenger at the airport for landing and taking off added to the price of the ticket at purchase and have that money flow into an Al Gore Airport Lockbox. Someone wants an airport refurb that's fine but it's going to be secured with a revenue stream.

Highways etc I'm fine with laying money out to fix them or build them but I want the fuel tax raised because the highway trust fund is running deficits already. Time to start running this stuff like a business. If someone wants a hybrid system like a fuel tax and a VMT tax that's fine by me also but to me I see the VMT way as being harder to collect whereas the fuel tax is much easier at point of purchase

If i was President, if I was President ... There you go Monte ... Name either the show and for bonus points which character sung it ...
 
there is an inherent basis for providing vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners to veterans with inadequate access. We have a cruel history of fraud in the VA in which veterans were represented as having proximal access to services through the use of falsified service waiting lists. People on those lists would be better served using vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners

Short of the provision of national security name a service provided by the government to which this statement generally does not apply. Private health care is better than Medicare and Medicaid. Private education is better public education. Down the line, to private garbage collection, which is better than municipal sanitation services. And if you think of one consider how long it took you to think of it and how few and far between. It's like RR said: the nine most terrifying words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

From a K-12 standpoint, excluding inner city public schools, this is just not true.


How do U.S. students compare with their peers around the world? Recently released data from international math and science assessments indicate that U.S. students continue to rank around the middle of the pack, and behind many other advanced industrial nations.

One of the biggest cross-national tests is the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), which every three years measures reading ability, math and science literacy and other key skills among 15-year-olds in dozens of developed and developing countries. The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. Among the 35 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 30th in math and 19th in science.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/
 
there is an inherent basis for providing vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners to veterans with inadequate access. We have a cruel history of fraud in the VA in which veterans were represented as having proximal access to services through the use of falsified service waiting lists. People on those lists would be better served using vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners

Short of the provision of national security name a service provided by the government to which this statement generally does not apply. Private health care is better than Medicare and Medicaid. Private education is better public education. Down the line, to private garbage collection, which is better than municipal sanitation services. And if you think of one consider how long it took you to think of it and how few and far between. It's like RR said: the nine most terrifying words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Excluding inner city public schools, this is just not true.

Excluding poor people because presumably screw the poor people: the US public education system is the most expensive bureaucratic boondoggle in the history of the universe and produces results that are at best mediocre and behind nearly every country in the first world by every metric imaginable.

Question: who given the choice would send their kids to public school rather than private school if there were no other associated costs? Answer: almost no one. Question: if public schools are so great why are progressives and their teachers union so terrified of school choice? Answer: [strike]think of the children[/strike]. Because without compulsory education enforced at gunpoint enrollment would plummet, meaning democrats would lose their cash cow and their propaganda platform and teachers would lose their tenure and their pensions and their summers off. Question: given the choice would you send your kid to SUNY Purchase or Iona? That one's rhetorical, because if you say Purchase I'll have to call CPS.
What if his kid wants to major in defense?
 
there is an inherent basis for providing vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners to veterans with inadequate access. We have a cruel history of fraud in the VA in which veterans were represented as having proximal access to services through the use of falsified service waiting lists. People on those lists would be better served using vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners

Short of the provision of national security name a service provided by the government to which this statement generally does not apply. Private health care is better than Medicare and Medicaid. Private education is better public education. Down the line, to private garbage collection, which is better than municipal sanitation services. And if you think of one consider how long it took you to think of it and how few and far between. It's like RR said: the nine most terrifying words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

From a K-12 standpoint, excluding inner city public schools, this is just not true.


How do U.S. students compare with their peers around the world? Recently released data from international math and science assessments indicate that U.S. students continue to rank around the middle of the pack, and behind many other advanced industrial nations.

One of the biggest cross-national tests is the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), which every three years measures reading ability, math and science literacy and other key skills among 15-year-olds in dozens of developed and developing countries. The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. Among the 35 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 30th in math and 19th in science.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

This is ofcourse very true. And it seems the US has left it up Asians Americans to take up the torch. From 15 -18, students ive come across complained about how difficult science and math are have significantly shifted from the hard sciences to social sciences entering college. Wonder if theres an upshot on those subjects among american students ...
 
there is an inherent basis for providing vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners to veterans with inadequate access. We have a cruel history of fraud in the VA in which veterans were represented as having proximal access to services through the use of falsified service waiting lists. People on those lists would be better served using vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners

Short of the provision of national security name a service provided by the government to which this statement generally does not apply. Private health care is better than Medicare and Medicaid. Private education is better public education. Down the line, to private garbage collection, which is better than municipal sanitation services. And if you think of one consider how long it took you to think of it and how few and far between. It's like RR said: the nine most terrifying words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Excluding inner city public schools, this is just not true.

Excluding poor people because presumably screw the poor people: the US public education system is the most expensive bureaucratic boondoggle in the history of the universe and produces results that are at best mediocre and behind nearly every country in the first world by every metric imaginable.

Question: who given the choice would send their kids to public school rather than private school if there were no other associated costs? Answer: almost no one. Question: if public schools are so great why are progressives and their teachers union so terrified of school choice? Answer: [strike]think of the children[/strike]. Because without compulsory education enforced at gunpoint enrollment would plummet, meaning democrats would lose their cash cow and their propaganda platform and teachers would lose their tenure and their pensions and their summers off. Question: given the choice would you send your kid to SUNY Purchase or Iona? That one's rhetorical, because if you say Purchase I'll have to call CPS.
What if his kid wants to major in defense?
Obviously he wouldn't play basketball at St Johns
 
there is an inherent basis for providing vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners to veterans with inadequate access. We have a cruel history of fraud in the VA in which veterans were represented as having proximal access to services through the use of falsified service waiting lists. People on those lists would be better served using vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners

Short of the provision of national security name a service provided by the government to which this statement generally does not apply. Private health care is better than Medicare and Medicaid. Private education is better public education. Down the line, to private garbage collection, which is better than municipal sanitation services. And if you think of one consider how long it took you to think of it and how few and far between. It's like RR said: the nine most terrifying words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Excluding inner city public schools, this is just not true.

Excluding poor people because presumably screw the poor people: the US public education system is the most expensive bureaucratic boondoggle in the history of the universe and produces results that are at best mediocre and behind nearly every country in the first world by every metric imaginable.

Question: who given the choice would send their kids to public school rather than private school if there were no other associated costs? Answer: almost no one. Question: if public schools are so great why are progressives and their teachers union so terrified of school choice? Answer: [strike]think of the children[/strike]. Because without compulsory education enforced at gunpoint enrollment would plummet, meaning democrats would lose their cash cow and their propaganda platform and teachers would lose their tenure and their pensions and their summers off. Question: given the choice would you send your kid to SUNY Purchase or Iona? That one's rhetorical, because if you say Purchase I'll have to call CPS.

Fun.....public education has clearly struck a cord with you. Although you have likely made your final decisions, a few points of consideration should include the following:

The likely reason why teachers' unions are concerned about school choice is that both current and proposed school choice reflect unequal standards of accountability when it comes to student achievement and special education regulations. Why not have school's of choice on a level playing field? Betsy Devos would not commit to this.

When analyzing United States public schools' performance on the PISA or NAEP, it makes sense to consider compulsory education laws in the various countries. I will take Singapore as an example, since they kick arse. In Singapore compulsory education is in effect only up until what they call "Primary 6" (ages 11-12). This means students begin to exit before they take the PISA at age 15. Also, certain categories of children, like those with special needs, are exempted from compulsory education. That can make a difference in the test results. I am not saying public education in the U.S. doesn't need improvement, but it is hardly the train wreck that it is made out to be.

Lastly, superintendents, principals and teachers haven't made a decision on curriculum and instruction in at least a decade. During that time, politicians and big business (i.e. publishers) have cost taxpayers millions and have negatively impacted public education in the name of saving it.
 
there is an inherent basis for providing vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners to veterans with inadequate access. We have a cruel history of fraud in the VA in which veterans were represented as having proximal access to services through the use of falsified service waiting lists. People on those lists would be better served using vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners

Short of the provision of national security name a service provided by the government to which this statement generally does not apply. Private health care is better than Medicare and Medicaid. Private education is better public education. Down the line, to private garbage collection, which is better than municipal sanitation services. And if you think of one consider how long it took you to think of it and how few and far between. It's like RR said: the nine most terrifying words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Excluding inner city public schools, this is just not true.

Excluding poor people because presumably screw the poor people: the US public education system is the most expensive bureaucratic boondoggle in the history of the universe and produces results that are at best mediocre and behind nearly every country in the first world by every metric imaginable.

Question: who given the choice would send their kids to public school rather than private school if there were no other associated costs? Answer: almost no one. Question: if public schools are so great why are progressives and their teachers union so terrified of school choice? Answer: [strike]think of the children[/strike]. Because without compulsory education enforced at gunpoint enrollment would plummet, meaning democrats would lose their cash cow and their propaganda platform and teachers would lose their tenure and their pensions and their summers off. Question: given the choice would you send your kid to SUNY Purchase or Iona? That one's rhetorical, because if you say Purchase I'll have to call CPS.

Fun.....public education has clearly struck a cord with you. Although you have likely made your final decisions, a few points of consideration should include the following:

The likely reason why teachers unions are concerned about school choice is that both current and proposed school choice reflects unequal standards of accountability when it comes to student achievement and special education regulations. Why not have school's of choice on a level playing field? Betsy Devos would not commit to this.

When analyzing United States public schools' performance on the PISA or NAEP, it makes sense to consider compulsory education laws in the various countries. I will take Singapore as an example, since they kick arse. In Singapore compulsory education is in effect only up until what they call Primary 6. This is ages 11-12, meaning students begin to exit before they take the PISA at age 15. Also, certain categories of children, e.g. those with special needs are exempted from compulsory education. That can make a difference in the test results. I am not saying public education in the U.S. doesn't need improvement, but it is hardly the train wreck it is made out to be.

Lastly, superintendent, principal and teachers haven't made a decision on curriculum and instruction in at least a decade. During that time, politicians and big business (i.e. publishers) have cost taxpayers millions and have negatively impacted public education in the name of saving it.

I CBA (that's can't be arsed for those of you scoring at home) to do the usual slice and dice. I might be coming down with something or I might be too drinking, hiccup. Anyway

"principal and teachers haven't made a decision on curriculum and instruction in at least a decade."

Meaning there should be decentralization of education control. No argument. Return control of public education policies and curriculum to local school boards. In other words: let there be choice. If that happened there would be no need for vouchers or anything resembling them. We agree.

" In Singapore compulsory education is in effect only up until what they call Primary 6."

We agree again, let's get rid of compulsory education. I'd say after Primary none, but you have to start somewhere.

" those with special needs are exempted from compulsory education"

Specious. In the first place mainstreaming is a progressive idea. I would much prefer allowing parents of special needs children to choose whatever educational opportunities they think best fits their particular situation. And in the second, special needs kids - real special needs kids, kids with real disabilities, not fake ADD and Asperger's diagnoses that are intended to make parents feel better about themselves and their failings- are statistically negligible.

"The likely reason why teachers unions are concerned about school choice is that both current and proposed school choice reflects unequal standards of accountability"

Sorry, this is nonsense. I come from a long line of academics. To the extent that teachers consider their students they consider them a necessary nuisance. If teachers didn't have pensions and tenure and summers off half of them would quit.

"politicians and big business (i.e. publishers) have cost taxpayers millions and have negatively impacted public education in the name of saving it."

Publishers? Really? Good grief. What costs more, books or administrative salaries? (Careful, this is one of my trick questions.)

Not trick question: if "politicians ... have cost taxpayers millions and negatively impacted public education" why do public educators overwhelmingly support both financially and at the ballot box those politicians who unquestionably support public education? Okay, that was a trick question too. Because if I were going to vote and one of the choices was someone who championed positions that "negatively impacted" my role in life, I'd vote for the other guy.
 
there is an inherent basis for providing vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners to veterans with inadequate access. We have a cruel history of fraud in the VA in which veterans were represented as having proximal access to services through the use of falsified service waiting lists. People on those lists would be better served using vouchers for care from other non-VA practitioners

Short of the provision of national security name a service provided by the government to which this statement generally does not apply. Private health care is better than Medicare and Medicaid. Private education is better public education. Down the line, to private garbage collection, which is better than municipal sanitation services. And if you think of one consider how long it took you to think of it and how few and far between. It's like RR said: the nine most terrifying words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Excluding inner city public schools, this is just not true.

Excluding poor people because presumably screw the poor people: the US public education system is the most expensive bureaucratic boondoggle in the history of the universe and produces results that are at best mediocre and behind nearly every country in the first world by every metric imaginable.

Question: who given the choice would send their kids to public school rather than private school if there were no other associated costs? Answer: almost no one. Question: if public schools are so great why are progressives and their teachers union so terrified of school choice? Answer: [strike]think of the children[/strike]. Because without compulsory education enforced at gunpoint enrollment would plummet, meaning democrats would lose their cash cow and their propaganda platform and teachers would lose their tenure and their pensions and their summers off. Question: given the choice would you send your kid to SUNY Purchase or Iona? That one's rhetorical, because if you say Purchase I'll have to call CPS.

Fun.....public education has clearly struck a cord with you. Although you have likely made your final decisions, a few points of consideration should include the following:

The likely reason why teachers unions are concerned about school choice is that both current and proposed school choice reflects unequal standards of accountability when it comes to student achievement and special education regulations. Why not have school's of choice on a level playing field? Betsy Devos would not commit to this.

When analyzing United States public schools' performance on the PISA or NAEP, it makes sense to consider compulsory education laws in the various countries. I will take Singapore as an example, since they kick arse. In Singapore compulsory education is in effect only up until what they call Primary 6. This is ages 11-12, meaning students begin to exit before they take the PISA at age 15. Also, certain categories of children, e.g. those with special needs are exempted from compulsory education. That can make a difference in the test results. I am not saying public education in the U.S. doesn't need improvement, but it is hardly the train wreck it is made out to be.

Lastly, superintendent, principal and teachers haven't made a decision on curriculum and instruction in at least a decade. During that time, politicians and big business (i.e. publishers) have cost taxpayers millions and have negatively impacted public education in the name of saving it.

I CBA (that's can't be arsed for those of you scoring at home) to do the usual slice and dice. I might be coming down with something or I might be too drinking, hiccup. Anyway

"principal and teachers haven't made a decision on curriculum and instruction in at least a decade."

Meaning there should be decentralization of education control. No argument. Return control of public education policies and curriculum to local school boards. In other words: let there be choice. If that happened there would be no need for vouchers or anything resembling them. We agree.

" In Singapore compulsory education is in effect only up until what they call Primary 6."

We agree again, let's get rid of compulsory education. I'd say after Primary none, but you have to start somewhere.

" those with special needs are exempted from compulsory education"

Specious. In the first place mainstreaming is a progressive idea. I would much prefer allowing parents of special needs children to choose whatever educational opportunities they think best fits their particular situation. And in the second, special needs kids - real special needs kids, kids with real disabilities, not fake ADD and Asperger's diagnoses that are intended to make parents feel better about themselves and their failings- are statistically negligible.

"The likely reason why teachers unions are concerned about school choice is that both current and proposed school choice reflects unequal standards of accountability"

Sorry, this is nonsense. I come from a long line of academics. To the extent that teachers consider their students they consider them a necessary nuisance. If teachers didn't have pensions and tenure and summers off half of them would quit.

"politicians and big business (i.e. publishers) have cost taxpayers millions and have negatively impacted public education in the name of saving it."

Publishers? Really? Good grief. What costs more, books or administrative salaries? (Careful, this is one of my trick questions.)

Not trick question: if "politicians ... have cost taxpayers millions and negatively impacted public education" why do public educators overwhelmingly support both financially and at the ballot box those politicians who unquestionably support public education? Okay, that was a trick question too. Because if I were going to vote and one of the choices was someone who championed positions that "negatively impacted" my role in life, I'd vote for the other guy.

I agree with some and disagree with some. I am not only too lazy to do the "slice and dice" thing, I have no idea how to do it. I am running out gas here, so excuse the brevity. Any further discord will have to be settle from two sturdy bar stools.

Decentralizing education.....no problem.

Getting rid of compulsory education.....not the answer. We need to require some level of education.

Special Needs issue.....Mainstreaming can be categorized as a progressive idea, but it was championed by parents of special needs children. Given the option, many/most want their child in the "least restrictive environment". More recently, public schools fight special needs out-of-district placement based on exorbitant costs associated with specialized schools. My larger point on this subject is that in the U.S. every profile is sitting for the exam, while in "competing" countries some students (presumably lesser students and special needs students) have left school. I agree that ADD, ADHD and Executive Disfunction Syndrome (the worst) are over diagnosed due to needy parents and pharmaceutical profit.

Regarding politician and publishers, I'll use my own state of NJ. The very confident Chris Christie forced Common Core down public school throat. He then, while exploring a presidential run, announced that he had grave concerns about the curriculum standards that HE mandated. Finally, during a primary debate, he announced that he was getting rid of Common Core. The unwritten story is that transitioning to common core cost the local school districts hundreds of thousands of dollars in "common core aligned" publishing materials and curriculum writing (the standards do not come with units of study....that's up to the schools). Finally, when he got rid of common core, the local district are again forced to react (and pay).

Quickly.....I am against tenure and feel that state pensions are unsustainable. A savvy politician (not a Trump or a Christie) could solve these two issues. We can only hope.
 
If i was President, if I was President ... There you go Monte ... Name either the show and for bonus points which character sung it ...

Since Monte did not take up the challenge, I have to end the contest. The answers are:

Show: The Little Rascals
Character: Alfalfa
 
If i was President, if I was President ... There you go Monte ... Name either the show and for bonus points which character sung it ...

Since Monte did not take up the challenge, I have to end the contest. The answers are:

Show: The Little Rascals
Character: Alfalfa

Just got back and saw the question, but truth be told I would not have gotten the correct answer. Always up for a challenge though.
 
"principal and teachers haven't made a decision on curriculum and instruction in at least a decade."

Meaning there should be decentralization of education control. No argument. Return control of public education policies and curriculum to local school boards. In other words: let there be choice. If that happened there would be no need for vouchers or anything resembling them. We agree.

Here I think we should be all in agreement. Centralization of Education in 1977/78 has been the worst experiment in terms of seriously exacerbating inequality in education, and inequality in income. There is no rational reason for it. A main reason for much more equitable education and income post-Depression till centralization was that education as a subject was the purview of the states, and in some cases further devolved. In such cases policy is way better contextualized, and issues like prayers in classroom and so on are much better based on the aspirations of the state citizenry. Creating a heavy top, bloated bureaucracy makes no efficiency, effectiveness and equity sense. It makes more a uniformity sense, if those in power feel it is better to take such state, municipal and individual liberties away.

If the ultimate aim is to devolve power, and downsize DoE, I am all for it, including for the environment. The centre does have a role, which is called an enabling framework that allows the devolution, sets minimum standards but allows individual communities to figure out how to meet them. Assigns means testing for allocation of budgetary resources along specfic criteria, wealth rank, gap in funds, and appropriate local education action plans in place (including to reward performance). Decisions on vouchers should be state by state, and only if it makes sense for them.
 
Some of us remember the expansion of the federal role in education as a direct, albeit slow, response to Brown vs. Board of Education and the presence of both de jure and de facto bias against minority students. This bias pathogen is still in our national bloodstream and the new executive order from President Trump is written to allow it to manifest in the way people who "appear foreign" can be treated by law enforcement without "probable cause". This may be good politics in that it will keep the left whining instead of focusing on better policy development and human history suggests that people opt for order over chaos, even when that order constricts freedom.
 
Some of us remember the expansion of the federal role in education as a direct, albeit slow, response to Brown vs. Board of Education and the presence of both de jure and de facto bias against minority students. This bias pathogen is still in our national bloodstream and the new executive order from President Trump is written to allow it to manifest in the way people who "appear foreign" can be treated by law enforcement without "probable cause". This may be good politics in that it will keep the left whining instead of focusing on better policy development and human history suggests that people opt for order over chaos, even when that order constricts freedom.

I obviously caught a different aspect of public school integration ... and in NYC with all its diversity, it was a diversified version of prejudice and balance. So back in 1976, the group I felt the most racism from was extremely oddly Puerto Ricans (but not Latin Americans). Blacks and whites couldn't settle on what to make of us say brown looking, docile, highly advanced in math and hard sciences, and speaking in an odd indian-ish accent. But the number of groups says, whites, blacks, puerto ricans, latins, caribbean blacks (very different), chinese, us and jews meant that there was also an interesting balance of power, whereas if i would to enter a more homogeneous environment, I might not have had the opportunities, e.g., to go to say Stuyvesant high school.

So when we got here, I feel lucky (in retrospect now) to study in a junior high school in Maspeth, Queens, which for a public school in a hell hole in Queens had a diversity and quality of education I would not have fathomed because it played a formative role in getting me into a quality public school at the HS level besides the role it played in my life with the racial and ethnic diversity I grew up with. Even my local high school, Newton HS (I grew up in Elmhurst, Queens so how could it be that I was not going to be a Redmen fan???) where my brother went had a spectrum of options (locally decided) on the rigor of HS education one opted for ... so things like a GED, regular high school diploma, regents (i think it was called) HS diploma ... and on and on. There was choice, and within each choice there was personal responsibility about what the student wanted out of the education in terms of quality. Now I am not sure to what extent ghettos in da Bronx and Brooklyn offered this through direct experience, I just know that the blacks in Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Tech and Bronx Science I knew came from some harsh backgrounds, and made it in these specialized schools on the same merit as the richest white student.

This is not to say my HS turned out geniuses, most of my batch mates turned out to be common folk - that is accelerated up in the teens, and just fizzled out through college.

Overall there is a huge precedence of decentralized education system, decisions, actions in the US. The center, as said above is needed, to promote national public good interests over bias and prejudice or quality of education but this is why the center just sets the legal and policy framework, and lets states negotiate or implement the achievements in ways the state sees it best. Centralization in any country has almost always had the opposite effect to the public good sought.
 
Only posting here because it's probably the thread Fun pays the most attention to. Was driving to work today and a song comes on and I'm thinking, this guy's voice sounds a bit like Dr. Fun, it was a song called Holy Gun by a guy or band named Morning Harvey. Give it a listen.
 

Agree, very interesting look into the probable strategy. For me, the article underscored the fact that I could get on board with some of this administration's policy. But, instead, every day I am wading through so much of Trump's nonsense. Hopefully he will settle down and be an adult.

John Kasich had a great line yesterday that sums up my current feelings. He said (paraphrasing)......when you get on a plane, even if you dislike him, you root for the pilot to be successful. I hate Trump. I absolutely loathe everything about him. But.....I am on the plane.
 

Agree, very interesting look into the probable strategy. For me, the article underscored the fact that I could get on board with some of this administration's policy. But, instead, every day I am wading through so much of Trump's nonsense. Hopefully he will settle down and be an adult.

John Kasich has a great line yesterday that sums up my current feelings. He said (paraphrasing)......when you get on a plane, even if you dislike him, you root for the pilot to be successful. I hate Trump. I absolutely loathe everything about him. But.....I am on the plane.
That's a really good line by Kasich. I didnt know much about him before the primaries started but by the time toward the end he was my favorite candidate

BTW Under the topic of some stuff this admin screws up you can't even believe it but Pence apparently sent out a tweet either today or yesterday in support of israel or something like that and used an emoji of the nicaragua flag instead of the Israeli flag. lol
 

Thanks for sharing MJ, and indeed very interesting. First correction however. Bannon himself nevet met the claimant who ascribed the leninist tag on him. Daily Beast, a proverbial shmata, has a history of character-assasinations and false accussations. Also from an ideological point of view leninism is diametrically opposed to free market, regulation busting ideology Bannon professes. So one can smell a rat.

What hes speaking against is crony capitalism (where rules are skewed towards a political class) combined with regulatory capture to horde and horde. As one example look up solyndra scandal, and feel depressed you and your children will be paying whie someone takes the money and runs. Regulatory capture is also one reason for big government.. check it out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top