Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?

[Too_Funny]

All right thats it. Im going to take you and your wife? Fiance? to Haandi. Im just wondering do i bring a hot brown or white girl with me

But im not back till 12 March. It would be good to meet you all for a game/drink. Though i doubt any will be left ...

 

[Too_Funny]

[attachment]16806799_10154777230205358_7315617506827479310_n.jpg[/attachment]

Terrorist 101 - Pakistani Police 0

At least St. Johns held out better and didnt get shut out ...

Holy crap. Wow. I only knew 1 of those. I had no idea

This is incredible. We tend. naturally, to focus on the US and Europe and lose sight of the global scope of these atrocities.

I guess my point is muslims are by numbers the biggest victims of a hateful, non muslim ideology ... you may be surprised that inside most muslims agree with Trump. This monster needs to be eliminated.

Not surprised at all. Most Americans are unaware of the violence that occurs between Sunni's (80%) and Shiites (20%), and different ethnic groups contained within. Some suggested post war that Iraq should have been split into 3 states, separating Sunni's Shiites and Kurds.

Nonetheless radical terrorists will kill their own kind, and their thirst for blood, at least to me, is more based on empowerment than religion

You understanding is remarkably profound. Its about empowerment and a twisted identity. Its all political. And those often random drone strikes by you know who further exacerbate the recruitment process. They stop seeing the individual in US, and see one homogenous enemy. I remember meeting people in remote areas, and they were surprised to hear me say basic things like we all have same desires and wants ... a couple of more potatoes on the plate, feeling of being loved and secure. They would always ask why do they hate us, which i found deep.

The communication between common people on both sides is missing, which is filled by hateful propaganda.

Anyhow, ive been a st johns fan since 1982. Didnt go there but heard a RUN DMC rap and got interested. I believe it was Mullins first year. Ive always enjoyed good comraderie with other fans throughout. Most memorable was the hardy senior year and buzzer beating shot against Pitt. Our section was one that moment.

Not having anything to do with the fact that it was Obama who accelerated drone strikes, but there have been just too many well publicized civilian mortalities for my comfort when using drones. While collateral damage is one of the unfortunate realities of war, to me at least the those unfortunate events occur, they are perpetrated accidentally by boots on the ground engaged in dangerous duty. A drone attack that kills civilians puts the assailant at no risk whatsoever, and makes the US appear callously removed but yet an agent of death.

True. But i was hearing about some good work by soldiers on the ground, and slowly but surely winning people over. Things like helping to rebuild houses, water supply, power, schools. But i guess like in Iraq the pull out was ill timed. I guess the drone policy replaced boots on the ground?

In my position I get to travel a lot domestically and often meet servicemen. To a person, the typically reply when thanked for their service in combat that they did the job they were sent there for, and they usually offered that Iraqis overwhelmingly were appreciative of their efforts.

One of my coworkers did a few combat tours in the middle east over a 15 year career. Like most servicemen, he doesn't express political opinions, but does admit that to take Ramadi was a hellfight with many casualties against a relentless enemy. It was disappointing and demoralizing to him how easily we gave all of those gains back to the terrorists who took over after our premature departure, considering the huge price we paid to secure that city

Unlike Reagan ending the cold war, bringing down the wall, etc. Theres a big mess to untangle out of. Middle east being the biggest. I think and hope Trumps end game is to end the endless war on terror the right way. Will he be able to .... ???

 

[mjmaherjr]

All right thats it. Im going to take you and your wife? Fiance? to Haandi. Im just wondering do i bring a hot brown or white girl with me

But im not back till 12 March. It would be good to meet you all for a game/drink. Though i doubt any will be left ...

We are in She is shooting a tv miniseries in Peru right now anyway and has to do promotional stuff before it airs so she want be back till mid april.

March madness though if I'm meeting any of the other members here in nyc to watch games I will let you know and if you are around you should definitely come meet us out

 

[Too_Funny]

All right thats it. Im going to take you and your wife? Fiance? to Haandi. Im just wondering do i bring a hot brown or white girl with me

But im not back till 12 March. It would be good to meet you all for a game/drink. Though i doubt any will be left ...

We are in She is shooting a tv miniseries in Peru right now anyway and has to do promotional stuff before it airs so she want be back till mid april.

March madness though if I'm meeting any of the other members here in nyc to watch games I will let you know and if you are around you should definitely come meet us out

Done!!!

 

[beast of the east]

[attachment]16806799_10154777230205358_7315617506827479310_n.jpg[/attachment]

Terrorist 101 - Pakistani Police 0

At least St. Johns held out better and didnt get shut out ...

Holy crap. Wow. I only knew 1 of those. I had no idea

This is incredible. We tend. naturally, to focus on the US and Europe and lose sight of the global scope of these atrocities.

I guess my point is muslims are by numbers the biggest victims of a hateful, non muslim ideology ... you may be surprised that inside most muslims agree with Trump. This monster needs to be eliminated.

Not surprised at all. Most Americans are unaware of the violence that occurs between Sunni's (80%) and Shiites (20%), and different ethnic groups contained within. Some suggested post war that Iraq should have been split into 3 states, separating Sunni's Shiites and Kurds.

Nonetheless radical terrorists will kill their own kind, and their thirst for blood, at least to me, is more based on empowerment than religion

You understanding is remarkably profound. Its about empowerment and a twisted identity. Its all political. And those often random drone strikes by you know who further exacerbate the recruitment process. They stop seeing the individual in US, and see one homogenous enemy. I remember meeting people in remote areas, and they were surprised to hear me say basic things like we all have same desires and wants ... a couple of more potatoes on the plate, feeling of being loved and secure. They would always ask why do they hate us, which i found deep.

The communication between common people on both sides is missing, which is filled by hateful propaganda.

Anyhow, ive been a st johns fan since 1982. Didnt go there but heard a RUN DMC rap and got interested. I believe it was Mullins first year. Ive always enjoyed good comraderie with other fans throughout. Most memorable was the hardy senior year and buzzer beating shot against Pitt. Our section was one that moment.

Not having anything to do with the fact that it was Obama who accelerated drone strikes, but there have been just too many well publicized civilian mortalities for my comfort when using drones. While collateral damage is one of the unfortunate realities of war, to me at least the those unfortunate events occur, they are perpetrated accidentally by boots on the ground engaged in dangerous duty. A drone attack that kills civilians puts the assailant at no risk whatsoever, and makes the US appear callously removed but yet an agent of death.

True. But i was hearing about some good work by soldiers on the ground, and slowly but surely winning people over. Things like helping to rebuild houses, water supply, power, schools. But i guess like in Iraq the pull out was ill timed. I guess the drone policy replaced boots on the ground?

In my position I get to travel a lot domestically and often meet servicemen. To a person, the typically reply when thanked for their service in combat that they did the job they were sent there for, and they usually offered that Iraqis overwhelmingly were appreciative of their efforts.

One of my coworkers did a few combat tours in the middle east over a 15 year career. Like most servicemen, he doesn't express political opinions, but does admit that to take Ramadi was a hellfight with many casualties against a relentless enemy. It was disappointing and demoralizing to him how easily we gave all of those gains back to the terrorists who took over after our premature departure, considering the huge price we paid to secure that city

Unlike Reagan ending the cold war, bringing down the wall, etc. Theres a big mess to untangle out of. Middle east being the biggest. I think and hope Trumps end game is to end the endless war on terror the right way. Will he be able to .... ???

Depends what the correct strategy really is.

To me, the whole idea of education is a lost cause.

Here's what I would do:

1) Cut off their source of income at the source by destroying their capability to produce oil
2) Go after the countries that are purchasing oil from ISIS and impose stiff sanctions on them
3) Shut down all radical websites as quickly as they pop up, and stop social media sites from allowing radical pages, accounts, and dialogue.
4) Stop communications applications from encrypting messaging that makes messages impossible to intercept.
or monitor
5) Intensify attacks on ISis training grounds and strongholds.
6) Intensify surveillance of associates of known terror attackers (cell contacts, email contacts, social media contacts. Whether lone wolves or not, they all have some contact to radicals via cell or the internet.

We must react swiftly and harshly to break the spirit of ISIS. No one wants to join a losing movement where the only surety is defeat, death, or prison. As long as ISIS appears to be winning, more recruits will sign up to their radical ideology.

 

[Too_Funny]

[attachment]16806799_10154777230205358_7315617506827479310_n.jpg[/attachment]

Terrorist 101 - Pakistani Police 0

At least St. Johns held out better and didnt get shut out ...

Holy crap. Wow. I only knew 1 of those. I had no idea

This is incredible. We tend. naturally, to focus on the US and Europe and lose sight of the global scope of these atrocities.

I guess my point is muslims are by numbers the biggest victims of a hateful, non muslim ideology ... you may be surprised that inside most muslims agree with Trump. This monster needs to be eliminated.

Not surprised at all. Most Americans are unaware of the violence that occurs between Sunni's (80%) and Shiites (20%), and different ethnic groups contained within. Some suggested post war that Iraq should have been split into 3 states, separating Sunni's Shiites and Kurds.

Nonetheless radical terrorists will kill their own kind, and their thirst for blood, at least to me, is more based on empowerment than religion

You understanding is remarkably profound. Its about empowerment and a twisted identity. Its all political. And those often random drone strikes by you know who further exacerbate the recruitment process. They stop seeing the individual in US, and see one homogenous enemy. I remember meeting people in remote areas, and they were surprised to hear me say basic things like we all have same desires and wants ... a couple of more potatoes on the plate, feeling of being loved and secure. They would always ask why do they hate us, which i found deep.

The communication between common people on both sides is missing, which is filled by hateful propaganda.

Anyhow, ive been a st johns fan since 1982. Didnt go there but heard a RUN DMC rap and got interested. I believe it was Mullins first year. Ive always enjoyed good comraderie with other fans throughout. Most memorable was the hardy senior year and buzzer beating shot against Pitt. Our section was one that moment.

Not having anything to do with the fact that it was Obama who accelerated drone strikes, but there have been just too many well publicized civilian mortalities for my comfort when using drones. While collateral damage is one of the unfortunate realities of war, to me at least the those unfortunate events occur, they are perpetrated accidentally by boots on the ground engaged in dangerous duty. A drone attack that kills civilians puts the assailant at no risk whatsoever, and makes the US appear callously removed but yet an agent of death.

True. But i was hearing about some good work by soldiers on the ground, and slowly but surely winning people over. Things like helping to rebuild houses, water supply, power, schools. But i guess like in Iraq the pull out was ill timed. I guess the drone policy replaced boots on the ground?

In my position I get to travel a lot domestically and often meet servicemen. To a person, the typically reply when thanked for their service in combat that they did the job they were sent there for, and they usually offered that Iraqis overwhelmingly were appreciative of their efforts.

One of my coworkers did a few combat tours in the middle east over a 15 year career. Like most servicemen, he doesn't express political opinions, but does admit that to take Ramadi was a hellfight with many casualties against a relentless enemy. It was disappointing and demoralizing to him how easily we gave all of those gains back to the terrorists who took over after our premature departure, considering the huge price we paid to secure that city

Unlike Reagan ending the cold war, bringing down the wall, etc. Theres a big mess to untangle out of. Middle east being the biggest. I think and hope Trumps end game is to end the endless war on terror the right way. Will he be able to .... ???

Depends what the correct strategy really is.

To me, the whole idea of education is a lost cause.

Here's what I would do:

1) Cut off their source of income at the source by destroying their capability to produce oil
2) Go after the countries that are purchasing oil from ISIS and impose stiff sanctions on them
3) Shut down all radical websites as quickly as they pop up, and stop social media sites from allowing radical pages, accounts, and dialogue.
4) Stop communications applications from encrypting messaging that makes messages impossible to intercept.
or monitor
5) Intensify attacks on ISis training grounds and strongholds.
6) Intensify surveillance of associates of known terror attackers (cell contacts, email contacts, social media contacts. Whether lone wolves or not, they all have some contact to radicals via cell or the internet.

We must react swiftly and harshly to break the spirit of ISIS. No one wants to join a losing movement where the only surety is defeat, death, or prison. As long as ISIS appears to be winning, more recruits will sign up to their radical ideology.

Good list. Here are my further suggestions and reactions. 1. is tough, if the source is Saudi money. But this is where Trump the business man may be able to wheel and deal.
2. is easier depending on the countries the oil is being sold to.
3. should be quite easy but needs strong leadership and support from web providers
4. I think this is quite doable by the CIA
5 and 6 are also quite doable.

I would strongly add, the strong leadership needed to make hard decisions. For example, on the map i sent where it says 13 people killed, the intelligence that something was going to go down was intercepted but the issue of clearing the area of protestors by the police need balls. Someone who will face the consequences of a politically tough choice but will save lives. In both US and Pakistan, the stomach to make those decisions has been lacking.

Much better intelligence sharing between and among allied countries. Systems need to be in place that instantly alert authorities about intelligence so a response is possible.

Leading role of the US in training partner countries on counter-terrorism, and also learning, how countries with the biggest problems win trust with communities, key informants and avert attacks with modest budgets.

Finally within muslim countries there needs to be a strong effort to aggressively debunk the terrorist ideology. True this is a long-term strategy but it is about sustaining the wins. Kind of like not leaving the job partly done.

 

[beast of the east]

[attachment]16806799_10154777230205358_7315617506827479310_n.jpg[/attachment]

Terrorist 101 - Pakistani Police 0

At least St. Johns held out better and didnt get shut out ...

Holy crap. Wow. I only knew 1 of those. I had no idea

This is incredible. We tend. naturally, to focus on the US and Europe and lose sight of the global scope of these atrocities.

I guess my point is muslims are by numbers the biggest victims of a hateful, non muslim ideology ... you may be surprised that inside most muslims agree with Trump. This monster needs to be eliminated.

Not surprised at all. Most Americans are unaware of the violence that occurs between Sunni's (80%) and Shiites (20%), and different ethnic groups contained within. Some suggested post war that Iraq should have been split into 3 states, separating Sunni's Shiites and Kurds.

Nonetheless radical terrorists will kill their own kind, and their thirst for blood, at least to me, is more based on empowerment than religion

You understanding is remarkably profound. Its about empowerment and a twisted identity. Its all political. And those often random drone strikes by you know who further exacerbate the recruitment process. They stop seeing the individual in US, and see one homogenous enemy. I remember meeting people in remote areas, and they were surprised to hear me say basic things like we all have same desires and wants ... a couple of more potatoes on the plate, feeling of being loved and secure. They would always ask why do they hate us, which i found deep.

The communication between common people on both sides is missing, which is filled by hateful propaganda.

Anyhow, ive been a st johns fan since 1982. Didnt go there but heard a RUN DMC rap and got interested. I believe it was Mullins first year. Ive always enjoyed good comraderie with other fans throughout. Most memorable was the hardy senior year and buzzer beating shot against Pitt. Our section was one that moment.

Not having anything to do with the fact that it was Obama who accelerated drone strikes, but there have been just too many well publicized civilian mortalities for my comfort when using drones. While collateral damage is one of the unfortunate realities of war, to me at least the those unfortunate events occur, they are perpetrated accidentally by boots on the ground engaged in dangerous duty. A drone attack that kills civilians puts the assailant at no risk whatsoever, and makes the US appear callously removed but yet an agent of death.

True. But i was hearing about some good work by soldiers on the ground, and slowly but surely winning people over. Things like helping to rebuild houses, water supply, power, schools. But i guess like in Iraq the pull out was ill timed. I guess the drone policy replaced boots on the ground?

In my position I get to travel a lot domestically and often meet servicemen. To a person, the typically reply when thanked for their service in combat that they did the job they were sent there for, and they usually offered that Iraqis overwhelmingly were appreciative of their efforts.

One of my coworkers did a few combat tours in the middle east over a 15 year career. Like most servicemen, he doesn't express political opinions, but does admit that to take Ramadi was a hellfight with many casualties against a relentless enemy. It was disappointing and demoralizing to him how easily we gave all of those gains back to the terrorists who took over after our premature departure, considering the huge price we paid to secure that city

Unlike Reagan ending the cold war, bringing down the wall, etc. Theres a big mess to untangle out of. Middle east being the biggest. I think and hope Trumps end game is to end the endless war on terror the right way. Will he be able to .... ???

Depends what the correct strategy really is.

To me, the whole idea of education is a lost cause.

Here's what I would do:

1) Cut off their source of income at the source by destroying their capability to produce oil
2) Go after the countries that are purchasing oil from ISIS and impose stiff sanctions on them
3) Shut down all radical websites as quickly as they pop up, and stop social media sites from allowing radical pages, accounts, and dialogue.
4) Stop communications applications from encrypting messaging that makes messages impossible to intercept.
or monitor
5) Intensify attacks on ISis training grounds and strongholds.
6) Intensify surveillance of associates of known terror attackers (cell contacts, email contacts, social media contacts. Whether lone wolves or not, they all have some contact to radicals via cell or the internet.

We must react swiftly and harshly to break the spirit of ISIS. No one wants to join a losing movement where the only surety is defeat, death, or prison. As long as ISIS appears to be winning, more recruits will sign up to their radical ideology.

Good list. Here are my further suggestions and reactions. 1. is tough, if the source is Saudi money. But this is where Trump the business man may be able to wheel and deal.
2. is easier depending on the countries the oil is being sold to.
3. should be quite easy but needs strong leadership and support from web providers
4. I think this is quite doable by the CIA
5 and 6 are also quite doable.

I would strongly add, the strong leadership needed to make hard decisions. For example, on the map i sent where it says 13 people killed, the intelligence that something was going to go down was intercepted but the issue of clearing the area of protestors by the police need balls. Someone who will face the consequences of a politically tough choice but will save lives. In both US and Pakistan, the stomach to make those decisions has been lacking.

Much better intelligence sharing between and among allied countries. Systems need to be in place that instantly alert authorities about intelligence so a response is possible.

Leading role of the US in training partner countries on counter-terrorism, and also learning, how countries with the biggest problems win trust with communities, key informants and avert attacks with modest budgets.

Finally within muslim countries there needs to be a strong effort to aggressively debunk the terrorist ideology. True this is a long-term strategy but it is about sustaining the wins. Kind of like not leaving the job partly done.

Left wing ideologues at Facebook and other social media sites not particularly anxious to silence first amendment rights of radicals, and say that as soon as they shut down a page another would pop up.

Apple resisted assisting the FBI in unlocked the iPhone that the San Bernadino terrorist used to text messages and communicate with each other and accomplices.

When our government asked Whatsapp to unscramble encrypted messages, since that app is popular with terrorists, the company refused, saying user privacy is more important than government concerns.

 

[Too_Funny]

You raise a critical issue about the tension between protecting liberties, rights and privileges and serious national security issues to protect the citizenry. And the issues and tensions on both sides are increasingly controversial - waterboarding, mass surviellance, terrorist incidents rise, security breaches etc.

These also bring up serious moral and legal dilemmas not to mention political. Im sure people from all spectrums of life understand the compromise between individual liberties and collective good. These issues require serious debate that could be done in a more participatory way. The debate i mean not details of programs.

One serious dilemma is where do freedoms/democracy end and where does fascism begin. Not to beat a dead horse but previous admin really botched this up ... from unfettered massive surviellance including on journalists and spying and harassing political opps through the IRS ... Im sure smarter, targeted and accountable measures and a system can be designed and run.

I

 

[Too_Funny]

The moral dilemmas personified:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1315349/mo...-in-intelligence-based-operations-claims-ispr

ISI is the Pakistani CIA. It is hard to say what out of the 100 was collateral damage but the response was swift and bloody. ISI has good intelligence and so do local political bodies, communities about whereabouts but not always plots. So a high percentage were terrorist cells.

 

[mjmaherjr]

http://nypost.com/2017/02/18/obama-linked-activists-have-a-training-manual-for-protesting-trump/

 

[monte]

http://nypost.com/2017/02/18/obama-linked-activists-have-a-training-manual-for-protesting-trump/

Dislike him even more now than I did over the last 8 years.

 

[Too_Funny]

http://nypost.com/2017/02/18/obama-linked-activists-have-a-training-manual-for-protesting-trump/

Dislike him even more now than I did over the last 8 years.

Not surprised at all. Before leaving he created a number of stumbling blocks, not to mention the 8 years of stumbling blocks. But I feel this as I recently argued on JJ: do not for a second think he does not have exceptional strategists behind the scenes that not only won him the elections but may have saved the country for what I call the completion of the liberal/left project that would have happened over 8 years of HRC rule, which would have meant my life as Winston Smith just got more interesting. LOL

 

[fuchsia]

None of this noise changes the fact that the Democrats are running on empty and the Republicans are at war with themselves. As the name of this thread has suggested all along, we need to come together to make things work rather than staying mid-ocean and screaming at one another that "your end of the rowboat is sinking faster."

 

[Too_Funny]

None of this noise changes the fact that the Democrats are running on empty and the Republicans are at war with themselves. As the name of this thread has suggested all along, we need to come together to make things work rather than staying mid-ocean and screaming at one another that "your end of the rowboat is sinking faster."

True, and that is why my broader argument on JJ was ... "Whereas following the water-gate scandal, and under the leadership of Ronald Reagan, the republican party rejuvenated itself, sadly the democratic party and its loyalists remain deluded, have lost any sense of humor, civility, reasoned analysis and any grasp of the policy debate let alone reality. The same thing applies to the mainstream media and the time maybe ripe for having a good look in the mirror and do some serious soul searching ... because a vibrant democracy needs a rejuvenated democratic party and an independent media, which is not a mouth piece for the left ... To me Trump is just a face, he is largely the titular head of the emergent Tea Party, and this rise represents the rise of third party politics in the US (even though they cleverly ran under the guise of republicans rather than as independents). To me, this is a positive trend for politics in the US. They have arisen because of both dysfunctional democratic and mainstream republican parties."

So sometimes the political morass is a good thing, if the parties to the morass take up the challenge.

 

[frank]

Gov. Cuomo ,an idiot , he is all everything ,so he says. Why not be proud of your own heritage ? The ultimate politician , who does not know how to shut up.

 

[fuchsia]

I do not consider myself lacking in sense of humor, civility, reasoned analysis and any grasp of the policy debate let alone reality. I am a Democrat. The fact that the whining self-interest only side of my party is temporarily ascendant can be viewed as an insurmountable obstacle or a great challenge. I choose the latter.

 

[JohnnyFan]

I do not consider myself lacking in sense of humor, civility, reasoned analysis and any grasp of the policy debate let alone reality. I am a Democrat. The fact that the whining self-interest only side of my party is temporarily ascendant can be viewed as an insurmountable obstacle or a great challenge. I choose the latter.

I hear you and agree that these whiny rallies are worthless and not at all examples of how to get involved in a meaningful way. However, it is not going to go away. I said it on this thread about 50 pages ago. It's true, Democrats completely missed the boat on why Trump won. However, conversely, republicans are likely underestimating the depth and endurance of this resistance (which I personally do not participate in). This is because when you offend people by attacking their defining characteristics (such race, religion, gender, disability, ethnicity, etc) you awaken a very personal pride. Like it or not, this is not going away for as long as Trump is in office.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I do not consider myself lacking in sense of humor, civility, reasoned analysis and any grasp of the policy debate let alone reality. I am a Democrat. The fact that the whining self-interest only side of my party is temporarily ascendant can be viewed as an insurmountable obstacle or a great challenge. I choose the latter.

I hear you and agree that these whiny rallies are worthless and not at all examples of how to get involved in a meaningful way. However, it is not going to go away. I said it on this thread about 50 pages ago. It's true, Democrats completely missed the boat on why Trump won. However, conversely, republicans are likely underestimating the depth and endurance of this resistance (which I personally do not participate in). This is because when you offend people by attacking their defining characteristics (such race, religion, gender, disability, ethnicity, etc) you awaken a very personal pride. Like it or not, this is not going away for as long as Trump is on office.

you gotta change the avatar of Wojo farting. It's disturbing

 

[JohnnyFan]

I do not consider myself lacking in sense of humor, civility, reasoned analysis and any grasp of the policy debate let alone reality. I am a Democrat. The fact that the whining self-interest only side of my party is temporarily ascendant can be viewed as an insurmountable obstacle or a great challenge. I choose the latter.

I hear you and agree that these whiny rallies are worthless and not at all examples of how to get involved in a meaningful way. However, it is not going to go away. I said it on this thread about 50 pages ago. It's true, Democrats completely missed the boat on why Trump won. However, conversely, republicans are likely underestimating the depth and endurance of this resistance (which I personally do not participate in). This is because when you offend people by attacking their defining characteristics (such race, religion, gender, disability, ethnicity, etc) you awaken a very personal pride. Like it or not, this is not going away for as long as Trump is on office.

you gotta change the avatar of Wojo farting. It's disturbing

Too funny. If you Google his name, there are so many pics with him making the most ridiculous faces!

 

[bamafan]

I do not consider myself lacking in sense of humor, civility, reasoned analysis and any grasp of the policy debate let alone reality. I am a Democrat. The fact that the whining self-interest only side of my party is temporarily ascendant can be viewed as an insurmountable obstacle or a great challenge. I choose the latter.

I hear you and agree that these whiny rallies are worthless and not at all examples of how to get involved in a meaningful way. However, it is not going to go away. I said it on this thread about 50 pages ago. It's true, Democrats completely missed the boat on why Trump won. However, conversely, republicans are likely underestimating the depth and endurance of this resistance (which I personally do not participate in). This is because when you offend people by attacking their defining characteristics (such race, religion, gender, disability, ethnicity, etc) you awaken a very personal pride. Like it or not, this is not going away for as long as Trump is on office.

Or because Georgie boy is funding professional protesters.