NIT
- Thread starter Ilzion
- Start date
I commiserate with all posters today. But a word to the wise . Losing doesn't get any easier ,it probably gets worse. In 1962 my senior year we lost in the NIT final and I was crushed but you still come back year after year for more.
I won' t watch any games or sports today or tomorrow but by Sun night I will be curious as to who we will be playing in the NIT.
One thing that completely blows my mind is how can a team in its most important game of the year and for a few the most important of their careers put out an effort like that?
I won' t watch any games or sports today or tomorrow but by Sun night I will be curious as to who we will be playing in the NIT.
One thing that completely blows my mind is how can a team in its most important game of the year and for a few the most important of their careers put out an effort like that?
tom in salem
Well-known member
or dribble.
not the 69th best team...come on...it will give us what 24-25 wins? we will be playing until late March when most of the NCAA teams are NOT. Look at the teams in the past that have won, many have came back the next year with legit teams. Look no further than # 6 Va. Guys what im saying is, we are all upset, but there is still a touney to be won, and "IF" we win ( which wont be easy either ) I think that goes further in building a team, recruiting, fan base, etc than a quick loss in the NCAA.
so here it is.....would you rather....
- Win the NIT
- Lose in 1st round of NCAA ??????????????????????????????????
I say WIN ROCKY WIN !!!!!!!! lol
so here it is.....would you rather....
- Win the NIT
- Lose in 1st round of NCAA ??????????????????????????????????
I say WIN ROCKY WIN !!!!!!!! lol
Class of 72
Active member
Divine Providence!
I will be rooting for the Friars to win the whole thing at MSG! They came ready to play and their six players where better than ours even with Bryce Cotton not scoring points. I can't imagine how good PC would have been had Dunne played! Likely the best team in the Big East.
Red Faced Storm drizzle was not a total surprise to those of us that watched them go 0-5 in January. Somewhere in some long forgotten thread back then I said we were a NIT team and my team did not prove me wrong.
Enough has been said of our wizard's lack of coaching acumen and the final game was no different than any other where he substituted haphazardly with none-talents like Phil Greene and Dom Pointless but this game was lost for two main reasons- we missed half our foul shots which were like turning the ball over to PC and allowing them to score, which they did easily on the inside, which leads me to the second reason- Chris Obekpa who began each half by fouling within seconds. He sucked worse than Pointer's useless minutes.
So, in summary, we win 20 games which is a certain level of success for this team. I know some fans will fantasize that we should have won 23 and been an NCAA lock and that they underachieved and Lavin under coached but the reality is our players are not that good, especially in the three categories that get you to the dance-shooting, free throws and rebounding which were all Providence strengths. Lavin cannot shoot for them, make their free throws or rebound for them. This group of players were a bad fit with Orlando Sanchez never giving 100% or understanding his role and Chris Obekpa being absent for half the season. Pointer and Greene are just not Big East or even MAAC level players. Sampson needs bulk and game smarts. Lavin crapped out in the recruiting of players for 2014 and that was his biggest failure this year as I have been saying all year long.
With Gtown, Nova and SJ losing in the first round of the BE Tourney, it set the MSG tourney back quite a bit and all I have to say is thank God for Creighton.
As for SJ and the NIT, unless these guys regroup, I see them losing their first game just as they did last year. They need to get it together for the NIT to win back some of the fans they lost this year. Can they do it? Stay tuned.
I will be rooting for the Friars to win the whole thing at MSG! They came ready to play and their six players where better than ours even with Bryce Cotton not scoring points. I can't imagine how good PC would have been had Dunne played! Likely the best team in the Big East.
Red Faced Storm drizzle was not a total surprise to those of us that watched them go 0-5 in January. Somewhere in some long forgotten thread back then I said we were a NIT team and my team did not prove me wrong.
Enough has been said of our wizard's lack of coaching acumen and the final game was no different than any other where he substituted haphazardly with none-talents like Phil Greene and Dom Pointless but this game was lost for two main reasons- we missed half our foul shots which were like turning the ball over to PC and allowing them to score, which they did easily on the inside, which leads me to the second reason- Chris Obekpa who began each half by fouling within seconds. He sucked worse than Pointer's useless minutes.
So, in summary, we win 20 games which is a certain level of success for this team. I know some fans will fantasize that we should have won 23 and been an NCAA lock and that they underachieved and Lavin under coached but the reality is our players are not that good, especially in the three categories that get you to the dance-shooting, free throws and rebounding which were all Providence strengths. Lavin cannot shoot for them, make their free throws or rebound for them. This group of players were a bad fit with Orlando Sanchez never giving 100% or understanding his role and Chris Obekpa being absent for half the season. Pointer and Greene are just not Big East or even MAAC level players. Sampson needs bulk and game smarts. Lavin crapped out in the recruiting of players for 2014 and that was his biggest failure this year as I have been saying all year long.
With Gtown, Nova and SJ losing in the first round of the BE Tourney, it set the MSG tourney back quite a bit and all I have to say is thank God for Creighton.
As for SJ and the NIT, unless these guys regroup, I see them losing their first game just as they did last year. They need to get it together for the NIT to win back some of the fans they lost this year. Can they do it? Stay tuned.
Everyone is different but for me the NIT while clearly way way below the NCAA still has potential to be a really good experience for us. Example in our last NCAA game we got thumped by Gonzaga in a totally forgettable experience. However the 2003 run to the NIT title led by the brilliant Marcus Hatten was more thrilling for me as a fan than many of our NCAA experiences.
Forget for a moment the shame of the Mike Jarvis aftermath mess and the subsequent vacating of the title and go back to the tournament experience. I was at MSG for the semi-finals when Hatten stole the ball (as good for me as Havlicek stole the ball was to an old diehard Celtics fan) and turned defeat into victory against Bobby Knight's Texas Tech Red Raiders. I returned to the Garden for the title game against Big East rival Georgetown which we won in a close hard fought battle. Those games were a pure joy for me as a fan. Personally I would rather end the season with something like that, than end the season with the emptiness I felt walking out of MSG after yesterday's Providence loss. As a reminder and for those too young to remember I posted the articles from the NIT semi-final and final game from 2003 below.
St. John's 64, Texas Tech 63
By Andrea Szulszteyn
The Associated Press
NEW YORK - Marcus Hatten loves taking gambles. His biggest one Tuesday night helped St. John's reach the National Invitation Tournament final. Hatten stole the ball from Will Chavis and made a layup with 16.2 seconds remaining to give the Red Storm a thrilling 64-63 come-from-behind victory over Bob Knight and Texas Tech in the semifinals.
"I was reading the guy with the ball (Chavis), and I knew he was going to pass it," Hatten said. "So I just turned my back like I wasn't paying him no mind."
The Red Storm held on in the closing seconds after Hatten missed two free throws with 4.1 seconds left. Texas Tech got the ball back following a timeout, and Will Chavis missed a 3-pointer off the rim as the buzzer sounded, sending the St. John's fans running onto the Madison Square Garden court.
The hometown Red Storm (20-13) advance to play Big East rival Georgetown in the NIT title game on Thursday night. St. John's, making its first NIT appearance since 1995, has won an NIT-record five championships, the last one in 1989.
"When you get a guy like Marcus Hatten, you never know what he'll do," St. John's coach Mike Jarvis said. "Anything can happen. The thing that is so great about him is that he gambles like crazy. I don't know if I'd ever want to go to Vegas with him.
"If I had any hair, I wouldn't any more."
Texas Tech (21-13) and Knight play Minnesota in the consolation game. This is Knight's eighth trip to the NIT, and his first since 1985. He made four appearances with Army and three with Indiana.
Hatten led the Red Storm with 24 points.
"Any time you can get a victory against a Bobby Knight-coached team, that's something you remember," Jarvis said.
Andre Emmett led Texas Tech with 21 points and 12 rebounds, while Kasib Powell, who's from nearby Teaneck, N.J., added 19 points.
Until Hatten's steal, it looked as if Knight and the Red Raiders would get to the championship game. Robert Tomaszek made a layup with 1:30 remaining to give Texas Tech a 63-62 lead. After Hatten threw the ball out of bounds, Tech tried to use up some of the clock on its possession.
After a kicked ball was called on St. John's and the shot clock was reset, the Red Raiders again tried to run the clock down before taking a shot. But that's when Hatten stepped in and made his crucial play.
"(Hatten's) from Baltimore, and it's kind of dull there. ... Sometimes I think he does these things for the extra excitement," Jarvis said.
The game went back and forth throughout. Texas Tech opened a 57-47 lead with a little over seven minutes to play after an 11-4 run. But the Red Storm came right back and took a 62-59 lead with a 15-2 run of their own.
"We have had a habit of doing that. We have a real habit of relaxing," Knight said. "That little stretch right in there, from about seven minutes left to about six, was the whole ballgame for us."
During the run, freshman Elijah Ingram scored eight straight points, including a 3-pointer that tied the game at 59. Hatten then hit a 3-pointer to give St. John's the lead.
Ingram was the only other St. John's player in double figures with 16 points.
"Any opportunity to have a chance to win a championship is golden to me," Hatten said. "I looked forward to this my whole career."
Next up for St. John's is a familiar opponent. The Red Storm beat Georgetown on the road 77-72 earlier this season and lead the all-time series 47-33. Having two teams in the final perhaps is an even bigger statement for a conference that felt it deserved more teams in the NCAA tournament.
So far in postseason play, the Big East has done exceptionally well. Four teams in the NCAA tournament made the round of 16, and two teams are in the NIT final.
Both teams have rebounded from horrible stretches in the regular season. St. John's was 12-12, but a huge 72-71 victory over Duke on March 2 turned things around. Georgetown lost six straight at one point but has played well behind Michael Sweetney.
"Tomorrow when we wake up, we will be one of six teams that still has a chance to win a national championship," Jarvis said. "I think it is incredible. In no time did they ever quit."
Home sweet home
Hatten, St. John's hang on to win NIT title at Garden
Posted: Thursday April 03, 2003 10:40 PM
NEW YORK (AP) -- Marcus Hatten helped St. John's win a championship. And the Red Storm fans helped him celebrate.
Hatten ended his collegiate career with his first-ever championship, scoring 22 points as St. John's won its record sixth National Invitation Tournament with a 70-67 comeback victory over Big East rival Georgetown in front of 12,406 Thursday night at Madison Square Garden.
Boisterous St. John's fans rushed the court after the game as "New York, New York" played. Fans then crowded around Hatten and lifted him up on their shoulders. When Hatten was announced as the tournament MVP, fans chanted, "Marcus Hatten!"
Afterward, St. John's cut down the nets and wore T-shirts that had "6-time NIT champions" on the back.
"There's no better feeling," Hatten said. "Even if it's not an NCAA championship, it's an NIT championship. I'm just glad to be a part of history right now."
Freshman Elijah Ingram made two free throws with 4.1 seconds remaining to seal the game. Tony Bethel missed a 3-pointer that would have tied it as the buzzer sounded.
Georgetown big man Michael Sweetney led the Hoyas with 25 points, nine rebounds and six blocks. Bethel had 12 points while Gerald Riley had 10.
"No pressure," said Ingram, who added 19 points. "I was looking forward to getting the ball and getting fouled."
The game came down to the final two minutes. After the Hoyas (19-15) trailed for most of the second half, Bethel tied it at 67 with 1:27 remaining. Hatten made one of two free throws to give St. John's a 68-67 lead with 1:13 to go.
The Hoyas had another chance to take the lead, but failed to get the ball inside to Sweetney. They were forced to pass the ball outside, and Riley missed a shot with 4.1 seconds to go. That's when Ingram made his final free throws.
"Gerald has won or tied a lot of games for us this year. I'll definitely live with that shot," Georgetown coach Craig Esherick said. "He's somebody I'm going to have shoot the ball again."
St. John's won its first NIT title since 1989 and has the most victories in the tournament's history (45). The Red Storm expected to win another title, even posting a note in the locker room that said, "Know your ring size. St. John's goes for No. 6."
The win completes a remarkable turnaround for the Red Storm. St. John's entered its game against Duke on March 2 at 12-12. But the Red Storm upset the Blue Devils 72-71 on Hatten's free throw with no time left, starting a string of nine wins in 10 games.
"At that time we were pronounced dead," St. John's coach Mike Jarvis said. "This team did something very special."
Georgetown also had a turnaround season and led early against the Red Storm. The Hoyas were up by as many as eight in the first half and led 38-34 at the break. But the Hoyas started the second half in a funk.
It took nearly six minutes for them to score, and St. John's (21-13) took advantage. Hatten scored the Red Storm's first seven points, and they led 43-38 after a dunk by Grady Reynolds five minutes into the half.
The Hoyas briefly took the lead back 44-43, but St. John's led 60-54 with 7:40 to play. St. John's held the lead until Bethel tied it.
"Our first-half defense gave up a lot of easy baskets," Hatten said. "All we wanted to do was limit those. We made everything difficult in the second half."
The Red Storm outrebounded Georgetown 43-34, including 20-8 on the offensive boards. Reynolds added 13 points.
"In the second half, they killed us on the offensive boards," Sweetney said.
Sweetney, a junior, now has a decision to make. He said he has not decided whether he will stay in school or leave early for the NBA draft. Underclassmen have until May 12 to declare for the draft.
Hatten now is headed for a professional career. The senior moves on to the NBA with a championship. He said winning a title feels even better than he thought.
"I kept having to wake myself up because I thought I was dreaming," Hatten said.
Texas Tech beat Minnesota 71-61 in the consolation game. Minnesota's Rick Rickert, Texas Tech's Andre Emmett, Sweetney, Riley and Ingram made the all-tournament team
Forget for a moment the shame of the Mike Jarvis aftermath mess and the subsequent vacating of the title and go back to the tournament experience. I was at MSG for the semi-finals when Hatten stole the ball (as good for me as Havlicek stole the ball was to an old diehard Celtics fan) and turned defeat into victory against Bobby Knight's Texas Tech Red Raiders. I returned to the Garden for the title game against Big East rival Georgetown which we won in a close hard fought battle. Those games were a pure joy for me as a fan. Personally I would rather end the season with something like that, than end the season with the emptiness I felt walking out of MSG after yesterday's Providence loss. As a reminder and for those too young to remember I posted the articles from the NIT semi-final and final game from 2003 below.
St. John's 64, Texas Tech 63
By Andrea Szulszteyn
The Associated Press
NEW YORK - Marcus Hatten loves taking gambles. His biggest one Tuesday night helped St. John's reach the National Invitation Tournament final. Hatten stole the ball from Will Chavis and made a layup with 16.2 seconds remaining to give the Red Storm a thrilling 64-63 come-from-behind victory over Bob Knight and Texas Tech in the semifinals.
"I was reading the guy with the ball (Chavis), and I knew he was going to pass it," Hatten said. "So I just turned my back like I wasn't paying him no mind."
The Red Storm held on in the closing seconds after Hatten missed two free throws with 4.1 seconds left. Texas Tech got the ball back following a timeout, and Will Chavis missed a 3-pointer off the rim as the buzzer sounded, sending the St. John's fans running onto the Madison Square Garden court.
The hometown Red Storm (20-13) advance to play Big East rival Georgetown in the NIT title game on Thursday night. St. John's, making its first NIT appearance since 1995, has won an NIT-record five championships, the last one in 1989.
"When you get a guy like Marcus Hatten, you never know what he'll do," St. John's coach Mike Jarvis said. "Anything can happen. The thing that is so great about him is that he gambles like crazy. I don't know if I'd ever want to go to Vegas with him.
"If I had any hair, I wouldn't any more."
Texas Tech (21-13) and Knight play Minnesota in the consolation game. This is Knight's eighth trip to the NIT, and his first since 1985. He made four appearances with Army and three with Indiana.
Hatten led the Red Storm with 24 points.
"Any time you can get a victory against a Bobby Knight-coached team, that's something you remember," Jarvis said.
Andre Emmett led Texas Tech with 21 points and 12 rebounds, while Kasib Powell, who's from nearby Teaneck, N.J., added 19 points.
Until Hatten's steal, it looked as if Knight and the Red Raiders would get to the championship game. Robert Tomaszek made a layup with 1:30 remaining to give Texas Tech a 63-62 lead. After Hatten threw the ball out of bounds, Tech tried to use up some of the clock on its possession.
After a kicked ball was called on St. John's and the shot clock was reset, the Red Raiders again tried to run the clock down before taking a shot. But that's when Hatten stepped in and made his crucial play.
"(Hatten's) from Baltimore, and it's kind of dull there. ... Sometimes I think he does these things for the extra excitement," Jarvis said.
The game went back and forth throughout. Texas Tech opened a 57-47 lead with a little over seven minutes to play after an 11-4 run. But the Red Storm came right back and took a 62-59 lead with a 15-2 run of their own.
"We have had a habit of doing that. We have a real habit of relaxing," Knight said. "That little stretch right in there, from about seven minutes left to about six, was the whole ballgame for us."
During the run, freshman Elijah Ingram scored eight straight points, including a 3-pointer that tied the game at 59. Hatten then hit a 3-pointer to give St. John's the lead.
Ingram was the only other St. John's player in double figures with 16 points.
"Any opportunity to have a chance to win a championship is golden to me," Hatten said. "I looked forward to this my whole career."
Next up for St. John's is a familiar opponent. The Red Storm beat Georgetown on the road 77-72 earlier this season and lead the all-time series 47-33. Having two teams in the final perhaps is an even bigger statement for a conference that felt it deserved more teams in the NCAA tournament.
So far in postseason play, the Big East has done exceptionally well. Four teams in the NCAA tournament made the round of 16, and two teams are in the NIT final.
Both teams have rebounded from horrible stretches in the regular season. St. John's was 12-12, but a huge 72-71 victory over Duke on March 2 turned things around. Georgetown lost six straight at one point but has played well behind Michael Sweetney.
"Tomorrow when we wake up, we will be one of six teams that still has a chance to win a national championship," Jarvis said. "I think it is incredible. In no time did they ever quit."
Home sweet home
Hatten, St. John's hang on to win NIT title at Garden
Posted: Thursday April 03, 2003 10:40 PM
NEW YORK (AP) -- Marcus Hatten helped St. John's win a championship. And the Red Storm fans helped him celebrate.
Hatten ended his collegiate career with his first-ever championship, scoring 22 points as St. John's won its record sixth National Invitation Tournament with a 70-67 comeback victory over Big East rival Georgetown in front of 12,406 Thursday night at Madison Square Garden.
Boisterous St. John's fans rushed the court after the game as "New York, New York" played. Fans then crowded around Hatten and lifted him up on their shoulders. When Hatten was announced as the tournament MVP, fans chanted, "Marcus Hatten!"
Afterward, St. John's cut down the nets and wore T-shirts that had "6-time NIT champions" on the back.
"There's no better feeling," Hatten said. "Even if it's not an NCAA championship, it's an NIT championship. I'm just glad to be a part of history right now."
Freshman Elijah Ingram made two free throws with 4.1 seconds remaining to seal the game. Tony Bethel missed a 3-pointer that would have tied it as the buzzer sounded.
Georgetown big man Michael Sweetney led the Hoyas with 25 points, nine rebounds and six blocks. Bethel had 12 points while Gerald Riley had 10.
"No pressure," said Ingram, who added 19 points. "I was looking forward to getting the ball and getting fouled."
The game came down to the final two minutes. After the Hoyas (19-15) trailed for most of the second half, Bethel tied it at 67 with 1:27 remaining. Hatten made one of two free throws to give St. John's a 68-67 lead with 1:13 to go.
The Hoyas had another chance to take the lead, but failed to get the ball inside to Sweetney. They were forced to pass the ball outside, and Riley missed a shot with 4.1 seconds to go. That's when Ingram made his final free throws.
"Gerald has won or tied a lot of games for us this year. I'll definitely live with that shot," Georgetown coach Craig Esherick said. "He's somebody I'm going to have shoot the ball again."
St. John's won its first NIT title since 1989 and has the most victories in the tournament's history (45). The Red Storm expected to win another title, even posting a note in the locker room that said, "Know your ring size. St. John's goes for No. 6."
The win completes a remarkable turnaround for the Red Storm. St. John's entered its game against Duke on March 2 at 12-12. But the Red Storm upset the Blue Devils 72-71 on Hatten's free throw with no time left, starting a string of nine wins in 10 games.
"At that time we were pronounced dead," St. John's coach Mike Jarvis said. "This team did something very special."
Georgetown also had a turnaround season and led early against the Red Storm. The Hoyas were up by as many as eight in the first half and led 38-34 at the break. But the Hoyas started the second half in a funk.
It took nearly six minutes for them to score, and St. John's (21-13) took advantage. Hatten scored the Red Storm's first seven points, and they led 43-38 after a dunk by Grady Reynolds five minutes into the half.
The Hoyas briefly took the lead back 44-43, but St. John's led 60-54 with 7:40 to play. St. John's held the lead until Bethel tied it.
"Our first-half defense gave up a lot of easy baskets," Hatten said. "All we wanted to do was limit those. We made everything difficult in the second half."
The Red Storm outrebounded Georgetown 43-34, including 20-8 on the offensive boards. Reynolds added 13 points.
"In the second half, they killed us on the offensive boards," Sweetney said.
Sweetney, a junior, now has a decision to make. He said he has not decided whether he will stay in school or leave early for the NBA draft. Underclassmen have until May 12 to declare for the draft.
Hatten now is headed for a professional career. The senior moves on to the NBA with a championship. He said winning a title feels even better than he thought.
"I kept having to wake myself up because I thought I was dreaming," Hatten said.
Texas Tech beat Minnesota 71-61 in the consolation game. Minnesota's Rick Rickert, Texas Tech's Andre Emmett, Sweetney, Riley and Ingram made the all-tournament team
@ghostzapper: I recorded both of those NIT games. I hated we were in it, but truly enjoyed those final two games in the NIT. I recall a co-worker, whom I wasn't aware watched our game versus Texas Tech, talk about how great of a steal Hatten made against TT.
I'm not at all enamored with the NIT, when it comes to this veteran-laden team (similarly, to how I felt about the Hatten-led team). But if this team were to make it to MSG, then I'm certain that I'll be excited for them. If you're gonna be there, then you might as well win it.
I'm not at all enamored with the NIT, when it comes to this veteran-laden team (similarly, to how I felt about the Hatten-led team). But if this team were to make it to MSG, then I'm certain that I'll be excited for them. If you're gonna be there, then you might as well win it.
rawdognyc
Well-known member
Obviously we are going to the NIT, but my question is what seed do you think we'll be? We were a number 5 seed at 17-16 (8-10) last year. I'm hoping for a number 2 seed. I don't understand the chatter of not wanting to watch anymore because it isn't the NCAAs. Does it suck we didn't make it, of course, however if you're a fan how can you not watch and root for your team? It sucks balls we lost and missed out on the Big Dance, but I'm going to watch until there are no more games to watch. Also, its idiotic in my opinion to think that if we won the NIT we are still the 69th best team in the country. If there were no automatic bids, a bunch of these that won their conference wouldn't be in the field of 68. Anyway I'll watch until the season is officially over, not when some "fans" say it's over because they didn't make the big dance. Lastly most prognosticators picked SJU to finish 5th or 6th in the BE and not make the tourney. Maybe we should pay more attention to them. If we did we wouldn't have been disappointed :-D.
Is there any remedy for Dom? Is he not given the coaching he needs or is the coaching he gets not connecting ? I am a Celtics fan since 1957 and when I see a player like Dom stuck, My memories of Sam Jones raise the question of could this player do better as a bank shooter?