Let's just say you're right. What % of the revenue of a Big East school do you think that amounts to?
NIL’s
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Silly Donovan
Well-known member
Well, in terms of St John’s, with room, board and tuition included it hovers near or around $100K. Do you not believe that’s enough for an 18-22 year old when the median family income of a family of 4 in the US is currently $74,500?
First, you never answered my question about the revenue BE schools actually get per year. You'd divide that number and see the %, and then you can compare that to actual sports leagues and see that the number is simply not close.
But secondly, you're talking value of their tuition. They aren't actually making any money based on what you're saying, so its totally apples and oranges.
Silly Donovan
Well-known member
I don’t understand how you can say that they are actually not making any money? If they had to pay for college themselves, that would require money that woukd have to be made somewhere.
In terms of the percent of what a BE school makes, I have no clue. But what I do know is that it took me 10 years to pay back my daughters college loans. And she was an actual student who went to class, took tests, studied, and was on a track team for a college in the Patriot League.
My kids and yours produced no revenue for the school. If your daughter received a track scholarship I would support your argument because she produced zero revenue for the school.I don’t understand how you can say that they are actually not making any money? If they had to pay for college themselves, that would require money that woukd have to be made somewhere.
In terms of the percent of what a BE school makes, I have no clue. But what I do know is that it took me 10 years to pay back my daughters college loans. And she was an actual student who went to class, took tests, studied, and was on a track team for a college in the Patriot League.
Imagine if Taylor Swift was given a college scholarship and as part of it got to perform at some of the major arenas arpund the country including MSG, had every performance televised, and beat reporters covered every aspect of her. Imagine if the school was the in the position to say, "We gave you a scholarship but you have to perform for us'. Not even Juliard can do that.
Well our revenue producing teams are like that. The coach gets millions and the players get free tuition room and board. But they provide much more to the school than they get back.
Basically an age old argument. People who don't understand that don't want to understand.
Honestly im much more concerned with having worked very hard to pay hs and college tuitions only to see talk of canceling loans.
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But in terms of revenue sharing on gross thats 0.00125%. And then you have to figure out the perceived value of all of the above to the recipient.
Alumni Hall
Well-known member
Any evidence so far of players agents/financial advisors telling their players to transfer to colleges with low or no state income tax and avoiding a large NIL tax bill? It used to be an issue in pro sports with the players taxable income.
Moose
Well-known member
I have a family member who is involved in an NIL company. The biggest problem is pretty simple. Kids have the schools by the balls. A player enters the portal and schools reach out. School "A" gets to a number with a player. Lets say its $1M. The player (and handler) then goes to school "B" and tell them that they have an offer from School "A" for $1.2M. So School "B" says ok we'll give you $1.25M. Player and handler then can go back to School "A". Or School "C". They can't exactly call their competitor to say hey are you offering this to so and so.
It's a complete embarrassment.
It's a complete embarrassment.
Just need to turn the NIL process into an E-bay auction.... 48 hr time limits or buy it now options
Stress will rise for fans but not drag out for weeks
Stress will rise for fans but not drag out for weeks
Anderson took his case to Arbitration and is in front of an arbiter so no it will not go through the courts.
The BE is not going to encourage their prize franchise to seek another conference which would decrease the value of the Big East even more. While Val pushed it, a majority of the Presidents of the then Ten full time members of the Big East had to vote to let them in. They knew what they were getting into. Other teams are just going to have to figure it out. The BE is not going to be a Big Five Conference in basketball if it takes a more amateur approach. And why would they let any conference put a limit on their budget? What conference does that?
BE definitely needs a strong President who is an innovator and Val is not that person.
Silly Donovan
Well-known member
Actually my daughter did get a partial scholarship. In terms of your Taylor Swift argument, let’s take it one step further. In reality, when a concert venue wants Taylor to perform, they lure her, or any performer with potential ticket sales etc. however, that performer does not get the venue for free. They still have to pay to rent the arena, for all the people who set up the stage, sound check etc. In short there are costs and the only money they make comes from the concert itself.
So that’s where your analogy falls short. These kids are making extra NIL money and going to school free. So if they are to be paid as professionals, then why the free tuition, room and board? Performers have to pay for their own venue, what money are college athletes paying out.
Again, I maintain that these kids are well compensated in free room, board, tuition and special perks and you won’t convince me of otherwise.
Good distinction on your part.
College scholarships in revenue producing sports have operated under the guise of primarily offering educational opportunities to athletes for free in exchange for athletes putting in full time attention 12 months a year to training, practicing, conditioning, video review and playing in addition to maintaining status as matriculated students.
Fans who had to foot the bill for overpriced cost of college for their own kids often think free tuition and board is enough compensation.
In your own child's case, a partial scholarship for track cost the school money, and did not produce a dime. I've been to other sju sporting events. Other than parents and other family members, no one attends and no one cares. It's a huge bonus for those athletes to play the sport they love AND get a tuition reduction.
Football teams pack stadiums seating 100,000. In a place like Colombia, Missouri on game weekends you can't find a hotel room within 40 miles of the stadium. It's a huge businessway beyond tv and tickets.
I suspect if NIL is ever paid by the schools directly, ticket prices will rise to closer to pro-sport levels.
I don't like supporting NIL, but it doesn't really matter what you or I think. The genie is out of the bottle and athletes are being paid because they make money for schools.
Actually - don't think you know the concert business to well.
Taylor Swift is always guaranteed her revenue. Her shows are bought and produced by Live Nation, AEG and other large promoters. They are the ones who take the risk, they then market those shows to arenas and those arenas bid on hosting said show, sometimes at a potential loss. The venue fee is either waived or offset by performance bonuses. All the people that work the show - those costs are responsibility of arena and promoter.
Now to relate this back to NIL and players, they are the talent - their fees are built in, if you choose to run the business that they perform in, you then take the risk. Hence why players in all professional leagues have this thing called Guaranteed contracts. They don't worry about costs of running the actual event, or how many tickets get sold or anything else for that matter.
NCAA is a business, period!!!
I don’t think there are many power 6 starters collecting NIL as individuals. It would be silly not to have an LLC or other business. These aren’t W-2 employees.
Redenbacher
Well-known member
Major difference here is that Taylor Swift IS the brand. She built her brand from scratch, there is only one Taylor Swift. She has leverage over the negotiations because no one can replace her. College athletes, on the other hand, are not the brand, the school is. People will turn out for Kentucky basketball no matter who's playing.
This is true, look at all the moneymakers in the Missouri Valley Conference and D-2.
Its co-dependent. Kentucky is Kentucky because they traditionally have great players and teams. SJU used to sell out the Garden, have a big brand, what happened when they stopped bringing in quality players and winning?
Redenbacher
Well-known member
Fair enough. How much were we paying Mullin, though? (The player not the coach.)
When Chris Mullin was here, ESPN was only two years old. It's a different world.
Who knows? What we do know is that the business is the same but the business model has changed.