Next Coach

Again it is worth mentioning that it took 4 years for people to turn on Norm Roberts. One year and 6 games for Chris Mullin. That is just wrong!!!!
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It comes with the territory. Unfortunately, the school and the coach took this risk fully aware that people turn quickly in this city. You don't earn $2MM a year without a lot of pressure.

I love what Mullin represents. He is a widely admired athlete across this country. He earned our admiration on and off the court.

It's on the school to work with him to make this work.

Two weeks ago this team was moving the ball, playing better defense and blew out inferior teams as expected. It looked like the staff had the team prepared. What we saw Monday was last season all over again. If they show up and play like they did in the first few games they will win the next three and we have some hopeful signs of success.

If not, this will continue to get ugly. It's just the way it is with sports. The school made this hire knowing the risk.
 
Let's stop this crazy talk right now.

Maybe Mullin is a crappy coach right now. Crappy might be a compliment. Maybe we should have whipped Delaware's ass, even if it was just Amar pouring in 35 points. Maybe it was the worst defense I've seen since my 4th grade CYO team got whipped by some Brooklyn kids who were a foot taller and ran like rocket ships and some of them shaved.

But remember this: Mullin came here in April, 2015 after fall recruiting was just about done. He scooped us the best of the remaining kids out there and there were slim pickings. This year's class doesn't seem to have a lot of gems, but the roster is balanced. His third year players will mostly reflect 2 years of recruiting, and he was left with NOTHING for year one. So to be fair to him, even if he isn't even a fair coach right now, is that he essentially has one recruiting class that built on nothing. I would like to see these guys playing good basketball even if they aren't the most talented, but our expectations for them appear to be way too high - including anointing Lovett/Ponds as the best ever at SJU after one legitimate D1 opponent (Minnesota).
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I have been preaching the same thing. But in doesn't mean that all criticism of Mullin and his assistants is unwarranted. If you are going to delegate the coaching duties to an assistant, perhaps an experienced one with a history of success would have been a better choice.
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Mullin inherited absolutely nothing from Lavin whereas Lavin inherited a tournament team from Roberts. To knock Mullin now after he has already demonstrated that he can recruit is clearly absurd. All the losses have been by single digits indicating that we're still a few pieces short The cupboard is far from bare though and as the talent arrives Chris will pyove it ain't brain surgery. Growing pains aren't permanent and things will turn around. Remember how Mullin beat Cuse last year? Give him a break. He deserves it for accepting the challenge
 
Lavin is gone and I am rooting for Mullin but Norm did not give Lavin a tourney team. Lavin took Norm's 6th and 7th men as his go to guys and took a team that only knew misery to the tourney. Lavin turned out to be a fraud and his tenure was ultimately disappointing but he gets credit for that first team. That was a good job there!
 
Lavin is gone and I am rooting for Mullin but Norm did not give Lavin a tourney team. Lavin took Norm's 6th and 7th men as his go to guys and took a team that only knew misery to the tourney. Lavin turned out to be a fraud and his tenure was ultimately disappointing but he gets credit for that first team. That was a good job there!
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Lavin was far from a fraud. Lavin was Hollywood and self indulgent, yes. But a fraud never delivers anything and gets ZERO results. We at St. John's were used to New York blue collar coaches. Lavin was culture shock to St. John's.
After that first year with 2 and 3 star athletes and taking them to the NCAA tournament the man got cancer. It altered his life forever. He was never the same man. He was emotionally devastated. I referred him to one of New York's top oncologists whom I knew and he never kept his appointment. He opted for a very radical procedure and he had terrible side effects. When ultimately returned to coaching he was not, and is not, the same man. Coaches Calhoun and Boeheim took it well and didn't miss a beat in recruiting. Lavin gave up.
If we look back at his career from neutral lenses we would see a rather average x and o coach who in his prime, went after top talent. That talent produced 10 post season tournament teams in the 11 years he coached at UCLA and St. John's. Eight NCAA appearances and two NIT'S. Five Sweet 16's, an Elite 8 and at a relatively young age.
If that is our definition of failure then I want Chris Mullin to be a huge fraud at St. John's. And, if he isn't, then we can just blame Lou Carnesecca's choices as his anointed successors.
 
Let's stop this crazy talk right now.

Maybe Mullin is a crappy coach right now. Crappy might be a compliment. Maybe we should have whipped Delaware's ass, even if it was just Amar pouring in 35 points. Maybe it was the worst defense I've seen since my 4th grade CYO team got whipped by some Brooklyn kids who were a foot taller and ran like rocket ships and some of them shaved.

But remember this: Mullin came here in April, 2015 after fall recruiting was just about done. He scooped us the best of the remaining kids out there and there were slim pickings. This year's class doesn't seem to have a lot of gems, but the roster is balanced. His third year players will mostly reflect 2 years of recruiting, and he was left with NOTHING for year one. So to be fair to him, even if he isn't even a fair coach right now, is that he essentially has one recruiting class that built on nothing. I would like to see these guys playing good basketball even if they aren't the most talented, but our expectations for them appear to be way too high - including anointing Lovett/Ponds as the best ever at SJU after one legitimate D1 opponent (Minnesota).
Click to expand...

I have been preaching the same thing. But in doesn't mean that all criticism of Mullin and his assistants is unwarranted. If you are going to delegate the coaching duties to an assistant, perhaps an experienced one with a history of success would have been a better choice.
Click to expand...

Mullin inherited absolutely nothing from Lavin whereas Lavin inherited a tournament team from Roberts. To knock Mullin now after he has already demonstrated that he can recruit is clearly absurd. All the losses have been by single digits indicating that we're still a few pieces short The cupboard is far from bare though and as the talent arrives Chris will pyove it ain't brain surgery. Growing pains aren't permanent and things will turn around. Remember how Mullin beat Cuse last year? Give him a break. He deserves it for accepting the challenge
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Cuse beat themselves last year in most people's minds. A certain 10th man on this year's team had a once in a lifetime game. After the Syracuse win, reality set in. Of course we will all give Mully a break but Alibegovic will not be bailing us out of any more games any time soon. ;)
 
Close Thread???// There is 11 pages of good discussion on here.

When the Head Coach is not coaching and the assistant coach is acting like a buffoon on the sidelines it is relevant topic who is next.
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I never said close the thread. I said combine it w the other coaching thread. I said I don't like the title of this thread not the content. I am very disappointed . But the idea of getting rid of Mullin after a few games of his 2nd year is ridiculous.
 
"You coach and I'll recruit, and I'll beat you every time" - Frank McGuire

"It's not about the X's and O's, it's about the Jimmys and Joes" - Billy Tubbs

"I though hiring CM would be a dumpster fire, but my compatriots at Redmen.com changed my perspective. He's done an excellent job recruiting, and I believe every coach deserves 4 years so that they can get their players in place. I do believe he knows hoops, and I do believe it will turn around. We need to be patient, but we are not. That does not change the fact that we must be mindful of the process." - Spocky Ramone
 
"Lavin was culture shock to St. John's"

That's one hell of an understatement ;)
 
Close Thread???// There is 11 pages of good discussion on here.

When the Head Coach is not coaching and the assistant coach is acting like a buffoon on the sidelines it is relevant topic who is next.
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I never said close the thread. I said combine it w the other coaching thread. I said I don't like the title of this thread not the content. I am very disappointed . But the idea of getting rid of Mullin after a few games of his 2nd year is ridiculous.
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you do realize 90% of banter on here is ridiculous. :) If see the topic that says 'Next Coach', you chalk it up as ridiculous and move on.
 
Let's stop this crazy talk right now.

Maybe Mullin is a crappy coach right now. Crappy might be a compliment. Maybe we should have whipped Delaware's ass, even if it was just Amar pouring in 35 points. Maybe it was the worst defense I've seen since my 4th grade CYO team got whipped by some Brooklyn kids who were a foot taller and ran like rocket ships and some of them shaved.

But remember this: Mullin came here in April, 2015 after fall recruiting was just about done. He scooped us the best of the remaining kids out there and there were slim pickings. This year's class doesn't seem to have a lot of gems, but the roster is balanced. His third year players will mostly reflect 2 years of recruiting, and he was left with NOTHING for year one. So to be fair to him, even if he isn't even a fair coach right now, is that he essentially has one recruiting class that built on nothing. I would like to see these guys playing good basketball even if they aren't the most talented, but our expectations for them appear to be way too high - including anointing Lovett/Ponds as the best ever at SJU after one legitimate D1 opponent (Minnesota).
Click to expand...

I have been preaching the same thing. But in doesn't mean that all criticism of Mullin and his assistants is unwarranted. If you are going to delegate the coaching duties to an assistant, perhaps an experienced one with a history of success would have been a better choice.
Click to expand...

Mullin inherited absolutely nothing from Lavin whereas Lavin inherited a tournament team from Roberts. To knock Mullin now after he has already demonstrated that he can recruit is clearly absurd. All the losses have been by single digits indicating that we're still a few pieces short The cupboard is far from bare though and as the talent arrives Chris will pyove it ain't brain surgery. Growing pains aren't permanent and things will turn around. Remember how Mullin beat Cuse last year? Give him a break. He deserves it for accepting the challenge
Click to expand...

Cuse beat themselves last year in most people's minds. A certain 10th man on this year's team had a once in a lifetime game. After the Syracuse win, reality set in. Of course we will all give Mully a break but Alibegovic will not be bailing us out of any more games any time soon. ;)
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Syracuse proved how poorly you can play without a real coach. Just saying.
 
I'm all for giving coaches a long leash, but Mullin is off to an absolutely tragic start. He made the same mistakes as our other 'new' coaches. He didn't re-recruit commits of the past coach (Ron Roberts, Doughtry). He failed terribly with assistants (Slice was an awful idea from the start. He is as used up as Fred Hill). He runs the program like a general manager. And many of his recruits come with baggage.

The criticism is fair. And I question if he can handle the job. I'm starting to think St. Jean is the only chance with have.
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In fairness, one reason staff passed on Doughty was because they felt he would not qualify & they were proven correct. They went all out for Ellison, good or bad decision, because they knew he would and needed to get players with a depleted roster. Yes they rolled dice on LoVett, because of his tremendous upside, but obviously things did not go their way in that case.
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And, Doughty is no world beater
 
I'm all for giving coaches a long leash, but Mullin is off to an absolutely tragic start. He made the same mistakes as our other 'new' coaches. He didn't re-recruit commits of the past coach (Ron Roberts, Doughtry). He failed terribly with assistants (Slice was an awful idea from the start. He is as used up as Fred Hill). He runs the program like a general manager. And many of his recruits come with baggage.

The criticism is fair. And I question if he can handle the job. I'm starting to think St. Jean is the only chance with have.
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In fairness, one reason staff passed on Doughty was because they felt he would not qualify & they were proven correct. They went all out for Ellison, good or bad decision, because they knew he would and needed to get players with a depleted roster. Yes they rolled dice on LoVett, because of his tremendous upside, but obviously things did not go their way in that case.
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And, Doughty is no world beater
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23 minutes/game, 8.9 ppg & 5 rebounds/gm
Not shabby for a freshman.
 
Norm did not give Lavin a tourney team.
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Revisionist nonsense.
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If Mullin leaves and Joe Schmo makes the tourney with Owens and Ellison as his two best players next year I will be sure to give Mullin the credit you think he will deserve.
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Owens and Ellison? Coach Joe Schmo should then be inducted into the Hall of Fame. :p
Steve Lavin inherited a team of seniors who were mostly 3 star talent but had underachieved under Norm Roberts. That team was a more talented team than our current roster because they were stronger physical players with some good skills. D. J. Kennedy was everything Malik Ellison will never be at the same height. Justin Burrell was a strong 6'8 and Justin Brownlee was 6' 7 and very similar in talent to Bashir Ahmed. Sean Evans at 6'8 was more efficient inside than Sima and had Dele Coker to back him up. That team had Horne, Hardy and Boothe at the guard position.
Norm missed out on some very highly rated recruits that could have changed his destiny and Lavin was lucky to have inherited seniors with some talent. So credit to all involved with those players. A few of the current players will be as good as those Roberts players as seniors but three straight rebuilds under three different coaches has made many fans skeptical that the coaches we hire are dedicated to sustained success before losing interest or being fired. Wish we could have been as selective as Xavier and Butler have been over the last 20 years when hiring coaches. Their head coaches were hired away from them for bigger programs and not fired as is our history.
 
Norm did not give Lavin a tourney team.
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Revisionist nonsense.
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If Mullin leaves and Joe Schmo makes the tourney with Owens and Ellison as his two best players next year I will be sure to give Mullin the credit you think he will deserve.
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those seniors went 17-37 over their previous 3 years in conference play. Scary thing is right now that seems like a good record :)
 
Norm did not give Lavin a tourney team.
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Revisionist nonsense.
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If Mullin leaves and Joe Schmo makes the tourney with Owens and Ellison as his two best players next year I will be sure to give Mullin the credit you think he will deserve.
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those seniors went 17-37 over their previous 3 years in conference play. Scary thing is right now that seems like a good record :)
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Dont forget that the last nr team had anthony mason jr as the focal point when healthy and couldnt get oast 1 nit game in 6 seasons
 
Norm did not give Lavin a tourney team.
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Revisionist nonsense.
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If Mullin leaves and Joe Schmo makes the tourney with Owens and Ellison as his two best players next year I will be sure to give Mullin the credit you think he will deserve.
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More nonsense. I know you hate Norm and you don't want to give him credit for anything. But those TEN SENIORS Lavin inherited were Norm's players: he recruited them and coached them for three years. As juniors they won seventeen games. Assuming even a marginal improvement for the TEN SENIORS Lavin inherited - almost all of whom went on to play professional basketball, even Dele Coker - that's 20 wins. I'm not arguing that Norm was a better tactician than Mike Dunlap, but you cannot convince me that any of the learned CYO coaches who post here who know so much about basketball would not have coached that team to the tournament by simply rolling out the balls. Which as anyone who watched that chowderhead Lavin coach for even a short period of time knows, that's what he did.

Lavin won his first year because he inherited a bunch of upperclassmen - none of whom were highly recruited. The next year he had a bunch of underclassmen that were highly recruited and they got their heads kicked in. The next year they were mediocre. He only made the tournament again when they were seniors. The lesson to be taken from that is not that Norm was an awful coach. We learned that a long time ago - just as we have learned that even lousy coaches (like Brian Mahoney and Mike Jarvis) win every once in a while. The lesson is that except in extraordinary circumstances upperclassmen have an advantage over underclassmen. Which is why the taking to the divan with smelling salts over Mullin six games into what is essentially his first recruiting class is so very very very silly.
 
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