Next Coach?

Thank you, mods, for combining threads.
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:pinch: I actually did try to use the Fire Lavin thread from last season but it was locked last April by a mod. Jeez .
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I thought maybe this was a good new thread, and we were looking forward to the next coach after we fire the next coach.
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It's all good. Just a miserable day after what I feel was the most disappointing loss since Gonzaga in 2011... I really believed we were going to win today.
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Understood. I was in Denver, and it just stunk having to sit through that. Come to think of it, The Final Four loss was similar - we were never in that game either. Today, with much less at stake it was more of the same

Probably, like our team, I was more worried about losing, than excited about winning.
 
Let's understand what Lavin is... he is a mediocre coach in most respects. And let's remember a larger truth -- most people are mediocre at their jobs.

His game coaching is as bad as advertised. It's almost embarrassing when the cameras show our huddle and the microphone picks up the useless palaver that Lavin is spouting. It's like he's coaching middle school. His constant use of timeouts to stop our runs is mind-boggling

His recruiting is far worse than advertised. He has recruited worse than Jarvis did (look at the results, who actually showed up on campus and played) -- and Jarvis was a lazy recruiter. His reputation as a recruiting wiz is wildly out of synch with reality.

He is a good spokesman for the program and the university, so as a public face he is effective -- far better than anyone since Looie in that regard.

Sometimes I think he is a good motivator, but he's only mediocre... as soon as this team tastes even a little success it takes its foot off the gas. Witness the lat two games, which were embarrassments as well as the start to the BE season. So he's not a good motivator. He gets the guys up when their backs are to the wall -- but its easy to motivate in that situation.

So he is mediocre. That's who he is -- that's our coach. We can do worse -- and we have (Mahoney, Roberts). But we can do better -- and we have (HoFers Looie and Lapchick). Lavin is on par with Fraschilla and slightly better than Jarvis.

But in fairness, let's remember that we could have done worse than Lavin in 2010 after we fired Roberts. Remember when Paul Hewitt was our top choice (after the Donovan pipe dream)? He turned us down, and now he's a disaster with Mason in the A-10.

On balance, if I was making the call, I'd probably extend Lavin without a raise. He makes plenty of money for what he delivers. There is no natural successor candidate out there. Either of the Hurleys would be looking for a new job the second they stepped on campus, I'll pass on Masiello, and McKillop is too old. Maybe you can talk me into Braica or Cluess in a year or two, but they haven't gotten over the hump in their own conferences. So I'd stick with Lavin for now, realizing that he's more style than substance.
 
Let's understand what Lavin is... he is a mediocre coach in most respects. And let's remember a larger truth -- most people are mediocre at their jobs.

His game coaching is as bad as advertised. It's almost embarrassing when the cameras show our huddle and the microphone picks up the useless palaver that Lavin is spouting. It's like he's coaching middle school. His constant use of timeouts to stop our runs is mind-boggling

His recruiting is far worse than advertised. He has recruited worse than Jarvis did (look at the results, who actually showed up on campus and played) -- and Jarvis was a lazy recruiter. His reputation as a recruiting wiz is wildly out of synch with reality.

He is a good spokesman for the program and the university, so as a public face he is effective -- far better than anyone since Looie in that regard.

Sometimes I think he is a good motivator, but he's only mediocre... as soon as this team tastes even a little success it takes its foot off the gas. Witness the lat two games, which were embarrassments as well as the start to the BE season. So he's not a good motivator. He gets the guys up when their backs are to the wall -- but its easy to motivate in that situation.

So he is mediocre. That's who he is -- that's our coach. We can do worse -- and we have (Mahoney, Roberts). But we can do better -- and we have (HoFers Looie and Lapchick). Lavin is on par with Fraschilla and slightly better than Jarvis.

But in fairness, let's remember that we could have done worse than Lavin in 2010 after we fired Roberts. Remember when Paul Hewitt was our top choice (after the Donovan pipe dream)? He turned us down, and now he's a disaster with Mason in the A-10.

On balance, if I was making the call, I'd probably extend Lavin without a raise. He makes plenty of money for what he delivers. There is no natural successor candidate out there. Either of the Hurleys would be looking for a new job the second they stepped on campus, I'll pass on Masiello, and McKillop is too old. Maybe you can talk me into Braica or Cluess in a year or two, but they haven't gotten over the hump in their own conferences. So I'd stick with Lavin for now, realizing that he's more style than substance.
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In short, when the teams wins and plays well, people here are inclined to extend him. When we get blown out in a single game, no less two, the pendulum shifts, the criticism intensifies, and in his case, nothing about him has been off limits - not his wife, not his cancer, not his morals, not his ethics, not his diligence, intelligence, recruiting, coaching, NOTHING. It's why if anyone reads my posts, even after going 7-1 and seemingly securing an NCAA berth, I tempered my enthusiasm to say let's wait it out. The season STILL isn't over yet, so let's wait it out. Plenty of time to think about his suitability to coach after the balls have been put away
 
Did Lavin get called for any T-fouls this season? I do not recall any. Consider how bad some of the reffing this year you would would think he had at least 1 or 2.
 
Did Lavin get called for any T-fouls this season? I do not recall any. Consider how bad some of the reffing this year you would would think he had at least 1 or 2.
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Personally, I don't care about things like that. Just because a coach looks "fired up" and slams his feet and has coaching tantrums doesn't make him any more competitive than someone who keeps a calmer demeanor on the bench.

As fans we tend to look at emotional outbursts as a way of lighting a fire in a team. It can just as easily go the other way.

We have had our crap coaches of both variety. Fraschilla was always in melt down mode. His emotional outbursts were just insane. Jarvis would give that snarl look, but usually keep cool. And he was a disaster on wheels as well.

As fans we are trying to find answers for the abysmal performance yesterday. I get that. But sometimes the answer isn't turning over a table in the lockerroom, or getting a technical. It is about one coach putting his players in a better position to succeed than the other coach.

Sounds simple. But there have been a number of times the person making decisions on the SJU bench has failed to make that happen.

I don't care about technicals. Heck, I don't care what Lavin wears, what he says to reporters, or what he says to the waiter at his favorite restaurant. All I care about is becoming a solid program. And I am worried about that.


I will enjoy selection Sunday and then root like hell to win that game. When the season is officially over, I will have a couple of pimple sized comments of worth to make.

A much more important person, Lavin's new boss, will give this a thorough review. Those are the words I will be listening closely to.
 
"Despite being picked by the league’s coaches to finish third, Lavin led the Johnnies (21-11) to a fifth-place finish."

Come on zach, are you really gonna try to make it sound like the regular season was a failure ??
 
"Despite being picked by the league’s coaches to finish third, Lavin led the Johnnies (21-11) to a fifth-place finish."

Come on zach, are you really gonna try to make it sound like the regular season was a failure ??
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I wouldn't classify it as a resounding success Jack.
Considering the circumstances, our most talented team in awhile, and senior laden with experience, it was a mediocre regular season.
 
Did Lavin get called for any T-fouls this season? I do not recall any. Consider how bad some of the reffing this year you would would think he had at least 1 or 2.
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I remember him being "T"ed up in at least one game. I can't remember which game it was but I think it was at the Garden.
 
Let's understand what Lavin is... he is a mediocre coach in most respects. And let's remember a larger truth -- most people are mediocre at their jobs.

His game coaching is as bad as advertised. It's almost embarrassing when the cameras show our huddle and the microphone picks up the useless palaver that Lavin is spouting. It's like he's coaching middle school. His constant use of timeouts to stop our runs is mind-boggling

His recruiting is far worse than advertised. He has recruited worse than Jarvis did (look at the results, who actually showed up on campus and played) -- and Jarvis was a lazy recruiter. His reputation as a recruiting wiz is wildly out of synch with reality.

He is a good spokesman for the program and the university, so as a public face he is effective -- far better than anyone since Looie in that regard.

Sometimes I think he is a good motivator, but he's only mediocre... as soon as this team tastes even a little success it takes its foot off the gas. Witness the lat two games, which were embarrassments as well as the start to the BE season. So he's not a good motivator. He gets the guys up when their backs are to the wall -- but its easy to motivate in that situation.

So he is mediocre. That's who he is -- that's our coach. We can do worse -- and we have (Mahoney, Roberts). But we can do better -- and we have (HoFers Looie and Lapchick). Lavin is on par with Fraschilla and slightly better than Jarvis.

But in fairness, let's remember that we could have done worse than Lavin in 2010 after we fired Roberts. Remember when Paul Hewitt was our top choice (after the Donovan pipe dream)? He turned us down, and now he's a disaster with Mason in the A-10.

On balance, if I was making the call, I'd probably extend Lavin without a raise. He makes plenty of money for what he delivers. There is no natural successor candidate out there. Either of the Hurleys would be looking for a new job the second they stepped on campus, I'll pass on Masiello, and McKillop is too old. Maybe you can talk me into Braica or Cluess in a year or two, but they haven't gotten over the hump in their own conferences. So I'd stick with Lavin for now, realizing that he's more style than substance.
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More or less agree with you. I guess I’d extend him, notwithstanding the dopey post game interviews.
 
Did Lavin get called for any T-fouls this season? I do not recall any. Consider how bad some of the reffing this year you would would think he had at least 1 or 2.
Click to expand...

I remember him being "T"ed up in at least one game. I can't remember which game it was but I think it was at the Garden.
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He was T'd up when we played at San Francisco.
 
Did Lavin get called for any T-fouls this season? I do not recall any. Consider how bad some of the reffing this year you would would think he had at least 1 or 2.
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't care about things like that. Just because a coach looks "fired up" and slams his feet and has coaching tantrums doesn't make him any more competitive than someone who keeps a calmer demeanor on the bench.

As fans we tend to look at emotional outbursts as a way of lighting a fire in a team. It can just as easily go the other way.

We have had our crap coaches of both variety. Fraschilla was always in melt down mode. His emotional outbursts were just insane. Jarvis would give that snarl look, but usually keep cool. And he was a disaster on wheels as well.

As fans we are trying to find answers for the abysmal performance yesterday. I get that. But sometimes the answer isn't turning over a table in the lockerroom, or getting a technical. It is about one coach putting his players in a better position to succeed than the other coach.

Sounds simple. But there have been a number of times the person making decisions on the SJU bench has failed to make that happen.

I don't care about technicals. Heck, I don't care what Lavin wears, what he says to reporters, or what he says to the waiter at his favorite restaurant. All I care about is becoming a solid program. And I am worried about that.


I will enjoy selection Sunday and then root like hell to win that game. When the season is officially over, I will have a couple of pimple sized comments of worth to make.

A much more important person, Lavin's new boss, will give this a thorough review. Those are the words I will be listening closely to.
Click to expand...

Sound, rational and intelligent post. If all those who want Lavin gone would make such cogent arguments, the kool-aid guys, like myself, would be forced to remain a bit quieter.
 
"Despite being picked by the league’s coaches to finish third, Lavin led the Johnnies (21-11) to a fifth-place finish."

Come on zach, are you really gonna try to make it sound like the regular season was a failure ??
Click to expand...

I wouldn't classify it as a resounding success Jack.
Considering the circumstances, our most talented team in awhile, and senior laden with experience, it was a mediocre regular season.
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I don't think so. Last years team obviously had more talent. After the Thomas and ADR drama most wrote them off. I'd call it a success especially the way they rallied after 2-6 start
 
"Despite being picked by the league’s coaches to finish third, Lavin led the Johnnies (21-11) to a fifth-place finish."

Come on zach, are you really gonna try to make it sound like the regular season was a failure ??
Click to expand...

I wouldn't classify it as a resounding success Jack.
Considering the circumstances, our most talented team in awhile, and senior laden with experience, it was a mediocre regular season.
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Desco. the regular season is what is projected to get this team to the NCAA - despite the poor showing yesterday. Mediocre does not get you a bid. Stick your other points. This one does not help your argument.

As for Zach, it is well known to any reader of this board that he and Lavin dislike each other since at least last year when Zach ran his piece that Lavin is not supported by influential supporters of the program - their poor relationship probably goes back further. I do think Lavin made a mistake going against the hoops writer of the one of the few local papers that cover local teams.
 
"Despite being picked by the league’s coaches to finish third, Lavin led the Johnnies (21-11) to a fifth-place finish."

Come on zach, are you really gonna try to make it sound like the regular season was a failure ??
Click to expand...

I wouldn't classify it as a resounding success Jack.
Considering the circumstances, our most talented team in awhile, and senior laden with experience, it was a mediocre regular season.
Click to expand...

I don't think so. Last years team obviously had more talent. After the Thomas and ADR drama most wrote them off. I'd call it a success especially the way they rallied after 2-6 start
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For me at least I detest roller coasters, and after those big descents end up sick to my stomach - like yesterday. This season has been a heck of a ride though.
 
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