Next Coach?

[Jack Williams]

The problem is not that everyone has different opinions. The problem is everyone gets so damn offended when someone differs from their opinion.

Some people like Lavin some don't. Enough with the personal attacks just because someone feels a different way. IMO this discussion is better suited for the end of the season, but for those who want to debate understand that if someone differs from you there's not reason to get offended or angry or personal. Everyone just needs to chill out

 

[sirvoo]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

 

[sirvoo]

And I still don't care for the guy(even though he's done a much better job of late) but I've been wrong plenty of times and in this case would love to be wrong for another 10 years!

 

[OLV72]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

They are probably the same guys who booed Sir Dom during our final game last season.

 

[boo haarvey]

Five years of results, which include this year, that are a heck of a lot better than the recent past.

Good point. Being better than Norm Roberts should be the measure by which all basketball coaches are judged. No flaws in that argument. none.

I'm sorry, but I'm not suggesting that Norm Roberts is the benchmark. Please don't twist my words. I love this school as much as anybody, but if you haven't noticed that the program has lost its luster sine Louie left, then I needn't even bother responding.

The fact of the matter is that until Lavin took over, we'd only made the NCAA tournament once this decade. Before Roberts was hired, there was talk about the University scrapping the basketball team ala NYU and City College. The school then decided to hire Norm Roberts at a cut rate salary. By all accounts, Norm was a good man who did a lot to clean up the program. Unfortunately, however, he was not a good coach and he did little to enhance the program's image as a bonafide NCAA contender, let alone powerhouse.

For reasons that have been discussed a thousand times on this Board and wholly unrelated to Norm and Jarvis, it has been increasingly difficult for the school to attract top prospects (e.g., loss of stipend, decline in NY high school basketball, increasing tendency of prospects to go away to school, breakup of the former Big East, etc).

This was the backdrop under which Lavin took over. Now let's look at the results Lavin has achieved:

- We've consistently landed upper-echelon recruits and been the finalist for numerous others. We haven't been in the conversation with kids like these for years, let alone landed them.

- Barring a total meltdown this year, we'll have made the NCAA Tournament two of the four years for which Lavin has coached and been a bubble team in the other two years.

- We have won 20 games or more in consecutive years for the first time in 10 years. We've won 20 games or more in three of the four years in which Lavin has coached.

- By all accounts, Lavin has recruited good kids who are graduating.

Now Lavin took the job with a tremendous amount of fanfare. We made the NCAA tournament his first year and he landed a stellar recruiting class. Following the first year of Lavin's tenure, all of us on this board had our expectations raised dramatically.

Has Lavin met our enhanced expectations? No. Nobody could have anticipated the cancer. Nobody could have anticipated the eligibility issues, which clearly Lavin and company deserve a fair amount of the blame for. Nobody could have anticipated Harkless leaving after one year and Samspon leaving after two.

Do I have concerns about next year's class or lack thereof? Absolutely. Do I have blind faith that Lavin with pull a rabbit out of his hat? No way. Do I think that Lavin has suddenly forgotten or grown too lazy to recruit? Also, no way.

I think it's important to do our best to view Lavin's past work and potential going forward with an objective eye.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. It is my humble opinion that considering where we were when he took over, Lavin has made monumental progress.

If you have a realistic candidate in mind who you truly believe can take us to the next level (i.e., on par with Vilanova), I'm all ears. My vote is to stay the course with Lavin. Let's give him a two year extension with a modest buyout and reevaluate in two years.

 

[RM86]

This from Zach Braziller:

Stock Watch: Up
Steve Lavin
Talks of a contract extension should be coming shortly for the St. John’s coach. After a slow start, Lavin has the Red Storm playing as well as anyone in the Big East, winners of six of their past seven, firmly in the NCAA Tournament field for the second time in five years with two regular-season games remaining. And unlike the Johnnies’ first trip to the tournament under Lavin, this team appears capable of doing serious damage. The fifth-year coach, who has just one year left on his current deal, has proven he deserves to be well-compensated.

Fire Zach Braziller

I think Lavin's extension is pretty certain given the team's recent play. I hope Lavin has some hidden gems in his 2015 recruits.

IMHO bringing Lavin back would be a shortsighted and foolish move. It goes under the heading of those who fail to learn from history and doomed to repeat it. No question the team is playing well right now, though how much of that is attributable to coaching genius is open to debate. OTOH if you look at the body of work and also look at the next year or two it offers a broader perspective.

It's usually not wise to make a long-term decision based on an isolated event.

Agree 100%; that's why I could never understand the position of an extension based on this year's results; but that's just me. 5 years results and program stability going forward near term gives a much more objective view of the health of a program.

I go back and forth on this whole extension thing. Not really sure who we could get. Talked to GTown fan at the game on Sat. who seemed to be in the know with regards to their program. Asked the feeling about JT3 he said not that well liked but school doesn't know think they could find a better option plus Pappa would be pissed off I guess. If they are concerned about finding someone I would think we would also. Me personally don't want to start over with some asst.

 

[lawmanfan]

In my mind this answer is complete tunnel-vision. You can't see the Forest for the trees.

Of course, this idea works both ways.

Not liking the coach fogs the vision.

So does liking the coach.

First coach since Looie to win 20 games 3 times.

Let''s review: Mahoney (out of basketball).
Fraschilla (didn't last 3 years, out of basketball).
Jarvis (yech. but as despicable as he is, his SJU records were 28-9, 25-8, 14-15, 20-12, 21-13. So possibly the most hated coach in SJU history was actually MUCH better than Lavin. Oh, and he's out of basketball).
Norm (that level of incompetence speaks for itself).
So while you are correct that he has been better than 3 of the 4 pieces of dreck we've hired since Louie, I think your standards are somewhat lacking. Maybe you were impressed by the mercifully short-lived St John's ad that it is "one of the top 300 schools in the country"?
And bear in mind that to date Lavin's best year was with a group of seniors he inherited. He's 1 for 4 with his own players.

First win at Cuse in 15 years or more.

Are you going to hang your hat on an early-season win over the first unranked, non-tournament Syracuse team in, like, forever? Really? You would have actually made a stronger point if you hung your hat on the close loss to Gonzaga. But still, no.

Highest ranking since Lavin's 2011 team which was a ten year high.at that time.

Last I checked we are unranked. The 2011 ranking was with somebody else's players, more specifically Dwight Hardy making up for a multitude of coaching sins.

Back to back 20 wins, first time ins fifteen years.

If 20 wins gets you a first-round NIT blowout to a mid-major, I' m not impressed.

Best start to a season since 1985,

I'm more interested in how seasons end than how they start, personally. Beating up on our sisters of the poor to the tune of 9-1 instead of 7-3 or 8-2 is nothing to write home about.

Non conference winning percentage highest since 1990.

Again, our group of seniors has done a good job of not losing winnable games, but our non-conference schedule has hardly been impressive ... except for the two games we lost (Gonzaga and Duke).

You can go in but what's the point , you won't see it.

I could, but I won't.

What coach is going to duplicate that?.

Given that I'm nowhere near as impressed as you are (ok, I'm not impressed at all), it's my opinion that there are about 200 coaches out there who could have duplicated all of the numbers you outlined above. And going forward I think there are a number of excellent options to replace him.

However, this season isn't over and for better or worse I think the team's performance in the NCAA tournament (which I suspect may turn out to be excellent) may be a big factor.

 

[sirvoo]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

They are probably the same guys who booed Sir Dom during our final game last season.

haha I don't know about that, but they were chanting MVP when he was at the FT line late in the game

 

[beast of the east]

This from Zach Braziller:

Stock Watch: Up
Steve Lavin
Talks of a contract extension should be coming shortly for the St. John’s coach. After a slow start, Lavin has the Red Storm playing as well as anyone in the Big East, winners of six of their past seven, firmly in the NCAA Tournament field for the second time in five years with two regular-season games remaining. And unlike the Johnnies’ first trip to the tournament under Lavin, this team appears capable of doing serious damage. The fifth-year coach, who has just one year left on his current deal, has proven he deserves to be well-compensated.

Fire Zach Braziller

I think Lavin's extension is pretty certain given the team's recent play. I hope Lavin has some hidden gems in his 2015 recruits.

IMHO bringing Lavin back would be a shortsighted and foolish move. It goes under the heading of those who fail to learn from history and doomed to repeat it. No question the team is playing well right now, though how much of that is attributable to coaching genius is open to debate. OTOH if you look at the body of work and also look at the next year or two it offers a broader perspective.

It's usually not wise to make a long-term decision based on an isolated event.

IMO predicting how a book will end is a shortsighted and foolish move. We could lose the next two games, one game in the BET, and go to the NIT and get swamped. Or we can close strong, get a bid to the dance and win a couple of game. In any event, yours and others commentary is foolish about him getting released with one year left on his contract. Let the season finish and then we will have more factual basis to make judgments.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

This from Zach Braziller:

Stock Watch: Up
Steve Lavin
Talks of a contract extension should be coming shortly for the St. John’s coach. After a slow start, Lavin has the Red Storm playing as well as anyone in the Big East, winners of six of their past seven, firmly in the NCAA Tournament field for the second time in five years with two regular-season games remaining. And unlike the Johnnies’ first trip to the tournament under Lavin, this team appears capable of doing serious damage. The fifth-year coach, who has just one year left on his current deal, has proven he deserves to be well-compensated.

Fire Zach Braziller

I think Lavin's extension is pretty certain given the team's recent play. I hope Lavin has some hidden gems in his 2015 recruits.

IMHO bringing Lavin back would be a shortsighted and foolish move. It goes under the heading of those who fail to learn from history and doomed to repeat it. No question the team is playing well right now, though how much of that is attributable to coaching genius is open to debate. OTOH if you look at the body of work and also look at the next year or two it offers a broader perspective.

It's usually not wise to make a long-term decision based on an isolated event.

Excellent post.

Agreed. That about sums it up

We have also played more home games (20) not including the Minnesota and Gonzaga games than any team in Division One basketball. No one else has played that many home games.

That has helped inflate the record too, and this schedule was set up perfectly to reach 20 wins with this team and contend for the NCAAs.

I think Zach really jumped the gun with this and he didnt reply to me on Twitter when i asked if he is basing this "extension" on overall body of work plus the future of the program or on a 8 game stretch over a month.

I can even argue that the team shouldnt have been on the bubble at all this year, with the elite talent we have, for us to have been on the bubble up until last week speaks volumes about the "coaching"

I can sympathize with everyone who is on the "extend Lavin" train because we are so starved for NCAA appearances, just the idea that we are in now in the 7-10 seed range is having people foam at the mouth but we will basically be back into a rebuild next year (and the year after too) and we are basically saying "who cares what happened the previous two years or what will happen the next two or three years" that making the NCAAs where getting out of the first weekend will be a long shot washes away the less than stellar results of the previous four years of this man's regime (for which he was paid at a $2 million dollar a year clip).

 

[Class of 72]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

You were likely sitting behind the Maven and Avon. :cheer:

 

[OLV72]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

They are probably the same guys who booed Sir Dom during our final game last season.

haha I don't know about that, but they were chanting MVP when he was at the FT line late in the game

That confirms it. Same people.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

You were likely sitting behind the Maven and Avon. :cheer:

if he was in section 116 it was me because i did boo him pregame....i have made no bones about the fact that i want him out.

 

[Knight]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

You were likely sitting behind the Maven and Avon. :cheer:

if he was in section 116 it was me because i did boo him pregame....i have made no bones about the fact that i want him out.

I thought I heard the cheering, "5 more years, 5 more years......"

 

[mjmaherjr]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

You were likely sitting behind the Maven and Avon. :cheer:

that just cracked me up

 

[Avon Barksdale]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

You were likely sitting behind the Maven and Avon. :cheer:

that just cracked me up

it cracked me up because ii think he might be right ha ha ha

 

[mjmaherjr]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

You were likely sitting behind the Maven and Avon. :cheer:

that just cracked me up

it cracked me up because ii think he might be right ha ha ha

that would be an all time classic. Your seats are there normally ? I saw your dad before the xavier game in the hallway and I think it might have been right outside that section

 

[Avon Barksdale]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

You were likely sitting behind the Maven and Avon. :cheer:

that just cracked me up

it cracked me up because ii think he might be right ha ha ha

that would be an all time classic. Your seats are there normally ? I saw your dad before the xavier game in the hallway and I think it might have been right outside that section

yes we are always there.... good seats i like them a lot.

we were in section 55 before they redid the Garden ..those were the best ever but i cant complain about these...pretty close to the court and apparently right in front of the poster who calls himself sirvoo lol

 

[Class of 72]

I'll tell you, the two guys in front of me at the Gtown game were 100% redmen.comers. And one of them straight up boo'ed Lav during the pre-game announcements. We all have our opinions like Jack said. Personally I said that Lavin could only save himself by making the tournament this year. If he does that who am I to say he shouldn't be back/extended?

You were likely sitting behind the Maven and Avon. :cheer:

if he was in section 116 it was me because i did boo him pregame....i have made no bones about the fact that i want him out.

Ha ha! We know you and the Maven want him out.
But, being neither for or against an extension, I have heard President Bobby loves Lavin and sees the R.O.I. of over $7 million as a positive regardless of his $2.1 million contract. If St. John's wants to be a player on the national scene they will have to pay that and more for the national publicity. Unless there is a marquee named coach that will come in with recruits and Manhattan appeal, I don't see us making a change if Lavin makes the tourney and secures a decent recruiting class. The coaching fraternity is very tight and a termination seen as unwarranted will turn off most coaches except some lower level unbranded coaches looking to embellish their resumes. Fraschilla and Jarvis come to mind in that category.
One another note on this team in particular; considering our seniors have progressed over their 4 years and will graduate is a big factor in the decision making. In my opinion none of them are NBA level talents. The ones that may be (Jordan and Obekpa ) have also improved but, like Sampson and Harkless, may leave the team desperate for replacements. As far as I can tell only a handful of coaches, all earning in the $5-8 million range can replace players of that caliber year in, year out.
Next year may be a rebuilding year regardless of who coaches but being in a position to attract players on a national level is important and unless a Gregg Marshall or Shaka Smart are a strong possibility don't look for this president to fire Lavin just because you don't like him.

 

[austour]

55. Very tidy. I was in 59 for non SJU games back in the day. almost end court but close. 55 must have been near center court. I was near center court front row 200's for STJ though.