Next Coach?

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MugCostanza said:
I'm sure I'll get in trouble for diving too deep into it but the Catholic Church has proven many times over they don't give a damn about morals and values. Also, you'd have to be incredibly naive to think the actual mission of the school in 2023 is "to teach young men and women to go forward and have careers where they can apply their Catholic faith into the world" and not to make as much money as possible.
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Thank you for your response which I had asked for. You will not get in trouble for the response.
 
MainMan said:
Are we at the point yet where we're rooting for the team to tank?

(Want to get a sense of the redmen.com zeitgeist before I continue to post.)
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I can honestly say this is the first time I've ever wrestled with this question. I never envisioned a day or a game where I would not root for St. John's to win. To not be 100 percent committed to that position right now is a measure of how frustrated I am – not solely with Mike Anderson but with decades of ineptitude.

I sincerely wonder and ask the question: what in the world are these guys working on at practice? They spend hours every day on this? How can we not run an offensive set or establish a basic defence. And if we're not working on team play, surely we should see some fundamental skill development (i.e. shooting improvement).

I'm totally stymied...frustrated...angry...
 
MugCostanza said:
I'm sure I'll get in trouble for diving too deep into it but the Catholic Church has proven many times over they don't give a damn about morals and values. Also, you'd have to be incredibly naive to think the actual mission of the school in 2023 is "to teach young men and women to go forward and have careers where they can apply their Catholic faith into the world" and not to make as much money as possible.
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The Catholic Church has often proven that they care about morals and values. Unfortunately, members of the Catholic religion and church hierarchy have made mistakes. Often these mistakes were compounded by attempts to hide them from the public. I don't think the mission of any religion or institution of higher learning should be to teach young men and women to apply their faith as a means of making as much money as possible. My guess is that you have a very tainted opinion of religion in general. All people should apply their faiths as a means to being better human beings regardless of monetary compensation. If that makes me incredibly naive, then I would rather be naive than to have your "worldly" noxious opinion of the value of morals and values in ones life.
 
firestorm said:
I can honestly say this is the first time I've ever wrestled with this question. I never envisioned a day or a game where I would not root for St. John's to win. To not be 100 percent committed to that position right now is a measure of how frustrated I am – not solely with Mike Anderson but with decades of ineptitude.

I sincerely wonder and ask the question: what in the world are these guys working on at practice? They spend hours every day on this? How can we not run an offensive set or establish a basic defence. And if we're not working on team play, surely we should see some fundamental skill development (i.e. shooting improvement).

I'm totally stymied...frustrated...angry...
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And they have been together since the summer. I thought that would have helped
 
redmanwest said:
I’ll assume the question was a serious one and reply according (and probably be derided).

As to why St. John’s might not (should not) venture there, it’s because despite our small number of die hard rabid fans, the basketball program is not why the university exists. In fact, it’s not essential to the mission if the school which among other things is to help propagate Christian (and specifically Catholic) mores in higher education, to teach young men and women to go forward and have careers where they can apply their Catholic faith into the world.

So, hiring a guy like Pitino, regardless of his excellence as a basketball coach, might be viewed as hypocritical to many, or at least contrary to the Catholic teaching mission of the university.

Of course, some would argue that an important tenant of the Catholic faith is forgiveness and redemption. True. But, to a university administration who seeks to be true to the mission, I think it’s a hard explanation to make when there are other men and women who would be better examples to the young men and women under the university’s charge.

Yes, a thriving program would bring revenue into the school that could be used to advance the mission of the school, but to many on the board, perhaps too high a price. It’s not just a business decision, but also a moral one.

Why another Catholic institution would act differently, I don’t know, but as someone who has spent tuition money at both the mentioned potential landing spots, I’d say that StJ is observably more adherent to its Catholic roots than GU.

IF looked at only thru the lens of big time college basketball,it’s a no brainer. If you layer on these other factors, it’s a non-starter.
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Isn’t forgiveness a Catholic value?
 
AlBovino said:
The Catholic Church has often proven that they care about morals and values. Unfortunately, members of the Catholic religion and church hierarchy have made mistakes. Often these mistakes were compounded by attempts to hide them from the public. I don't think the mission of any religion or institution of higher learning should be to teach young men and women to apply their faith as a means of making as much money as possible. My guess is that you have a very tainted opinion of religion in general. All people should apply their faiths as a means to being better human beings regardless of monetary compensation. If that makes me incredibly naive, then I would rather be naive than to have your "worldly" noxious opinion of the value of morals and values in ones life.
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I’m all for individuals living their life through faith. For organized religions, sure there are people that are genuinely interested in helping people apply their faith but they aren’t the ones that rise to the top. As for Universities, I can’t remember one class I took at SJU that was supposed to help me apply my faith in the next chapter of my life. Furthermore, Universities in general are littered with far left faculty whose preachings are in direct conflict with that of the Catholic faith, and SJU has more than their fair share of those types of faculty members.

Anyway, the point of this is that in my view not hiring Pitino because we’re supposed to be above that morally is hypocritical and self-defeating and there’s no point in fans spending their hard earned money on this product if the school doesn’t have the program’s best interests in mind
 
redmannorth said:
Thank you for your response which I had asked for. You will not get in trouble for the response.
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So I use a word that was deemed political and threatened with eternal banishment and yet bashing the Catholic religion on the basketball fan site of a Catholic university gets a pass?
Let me address Mug's misreading of the St. John's mission in 2023. St. John's is the most diverse Catholic university in the country. Thousands of the current students are not Catholic and they are not required to participate in anything related to the Catholic faith while at the school. Almost the entire basketball staff and players are not Catholic.
While it may have been the case over 40 years ago, today's St. John's is no longer a conservative university.
Conservative students are actually encouraged to stay silent on campus as they are in most colleges today.
There is no history in Father Shanley's past leadership that would indicate he would not consider Rick Pitino based upon past human transgressions.
In short, being a school with Catholic affiliation has nothing to do with the consideration of whether to hire Rick Pitino.
 
If the school is concerned about negative publicity from hiring Pitino then they have this backwards. Hiring Pitino at this point would result in positive press overall since he was cleared by the NCAA. What could they be scared of, journalists rehashing his affair from a couple decades ago? That's nothing compared to the negative publicity which would result from not offering him. Think Repole on the radio but amplify that across more outlets. More importantly, you'd also have a very angry fanbase.

If they do pass on Pitino, it would almost certainly be due to the ego of one of the decision makers who passed on him last time being unwilling to admit they made a mistake. That'd be silly, though, because last time he was an iffy candidate due to the NCAA investigation. Not anymore.
 
Rocket said:
So I use a word that was deemed political and threatened with eternal banishment and yet bashing the Catholic religion on the basketball fan site of a Catholic university gets a pass?
Let me address Mug's misreading of the St. John's mission in 2023. St. John's is the most diverse Catholic university in the country. Thousands of the current students are not Catholic and they are not required to participate in anything related to the Catholic faith while at the school. Almost the entire basketball staff and players are not Catholic.
While it may have been the case over 40 years ago, today's St. John's is no longer a conservative university.
Conservative students are actually encouraged to stay silent on campus as they are in most colleges today.
There is no history in Father Shanley's past leadership that would indicate he would not consider Rick Pitino based upon past human transgressions.
In short, being a school with Catholic affiliation has nothing to do with the consideration of whether to hire Rick Pitino.
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I agree with everything here except that I don't know if the last sentence is true or not, though I hope it is.
 
I graduated St.John’s over a decade ago. I had to fulfill 9 credits of theology. I had no problem with it. Also, I am a non practicing Jew. However, I choose a Catholic university and most my friends growing up were Italian so going to a Sunday service nothing new.

I’ve been on and off this board for past 20 years. I remember a couple folks saying they didn’t want Seth Greenberg or Bruce Pearl because they were dirty jews. You could look that up. I suggested they give back the Belson’s money. The same folks also do not want Pitino due to an affair that resulted in an abortion. Those same folks also hired an African American coach to deflect that they screwed up the last coaching search. It nothing to do the fact that CMA had a winning record.

This nothing to do about winning basketball games . It’s a wine and cheese party for a few folks that operate a fund that control the program. Will always get the excuse we cannot compete, but for $100 bucks come eat and drink at Garden in R&W club.
 
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