New SJU President: Rev. Brian J. Shanley, OP, President of Providence College
- Thread starter TonyinFairfield
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SJU Double Alumn
Member
[quote="BasketballJones" post=403653]Somebody should send the new president the article in the Athletic about the Gonzaga basketball program’s effect on enrollment. In 1998 they were down to 3000 students with a million dollar shortfall, wondering whether they could continue as a university. Then the elite 8 appearance began a great run, and surprise, surprise enrollments went way up and alumni remembered their school again.[/quote]
Completely agree. If we became a basketball powerhouse with consistent NCAA appearances and the occasional Elite 8 or Final 4 run, our applications would jump and hopefully with that our admission standards.
Completely agree. If we became a basketball powerhouse with consistent NCAA appearances and the occasional Elite 8 or Final 4 run, our applications would jump and hopefully with that our admission standards.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Proud Alumn" post=403869][quote="BasketballJones" post=403653]Somebody should send the new president the article in the Athletic about the Gonzaga basketball program’s effect on enrollment. In 1998 they were down to 3000 students with a million dollar shortfall, wondering whether they could continue as a university. Then the elite 8 appearance began a great run, and surprise, surprise enrollments went way up and alumni remembered their school again.[/quote]
Completely agree. If we became a basketball powerhouse with consistent NCAA appearances and the occasional Elite 8 or Final 4 run, our applications would jump and hopefully with that our admission standards.[/quote]
Please watch the youtube videos of Father Shanley (how many times do I have to start typing Stanley before self correcting). He has articulated the importance of college athletics perfectly.
Completely agree. If we became a basketball powerhouse with consistent NCAA appearances and the occasional Elite 8 or Final 4 run, our applications would jump and hopefully with that our admission standards.[/quote]
Please watch the youtube videos of Father Shanley (how many times do I have to start typing Stanley before self correcting). He has articulated the importance of college athletics perfectly.
The positive relationship between college admissions and athletic success is known as the “Flutie Effect”.
The below linked article entitled “ The Flutie Effect: How Athletic Success Boosts College Applications” appeared in a 2013 edition of Frobes magazine.
[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...etic-success-boosts-college-applications/amp/[/URL]
The below linked article entitled “ The Flutie Effect: How Athletic Success Boosts College Applications” appeared in a 2013 edition of Frobes magazine.
[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...etic-success-boosts-college-applications/amp/[/URL]
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="otis" post=403909]The positive relationship between college admissions and athletic success is known as the “Flutie Effect”.
The below linked article entitled “ The Flutie Effect: How Athletic Success Boosts College Applications” appeared in a 2013 edition of Frobes magazine.
[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...etic-success-boosts-college-applications/amp/[/URL][/quote]
bc is interesting because I do not think athletics are currently a major part of applicants reasoning nor a major part of student life
Bc tracks cross applications, namely what are the top 10 schools that accepted students applied to. For bc when my son applied, it was the Ivy league schools, and Villanova.
Once kids are on campus, freshmen trying to acclimate going to football games in hordes, wearing school supplied yellow superfan t shirts. By sophomore year few kids attend and by senior year tailgating is really high with every home game a party in a fenced off area but few make it to the game.
Basketball had horrible attendance with fans showing up only for top access games like unc or duke. I believe hockey had decent attendance.
Schools like Georgetown, BC and Duke may have grown in quality of student based on athletics, but none of those schools really need athletics to attract top students.
UCONN, Syracuse. and all big time football schools which aren't top flight academic places need strong athletics.
The below linked article entitled “ The Flutie Effect: How Athletic Success Boosts College Applications” appeared in a 2013 edition of Frobes magazine.
[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...etic-success-boosts-college-applications/amp/[/URL][/quote]
bc is interesting because I do not think athletics are currently a major part of applicants reasoning nor a major part of student life
Bc tracks cross applications, namely what are the top 10 schools that accepted students applied to. For bc when my son applied, it was the Ivy league schools, and Villanova.
Once kids are on campus, freshmen trying to acclimate going to football games in hordes, wearing school supplied yellow superfan t shirts. By sophomore year few kids attend and by senior year tailgating is really high with every home game a party in a fenced off area but few make it to the game.
Basketball had horrible attendance with fans showing up only for top access games like unc or duke. I believe hockey had decent attendance.
Schools like Georgetown, BC and Duke may have grown in quality of student based on athletics, but none of those schools really need athletics to attract top students.
UCONN, Syracuse. and all big time football schools which aren't top flight academic places need strong athletics.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=403999]
UCONN, Syracuse. and all big time football schools which aren't top flight academic places need strong athletics.[/quote]
Don’t kid yourself ..... “top flight academic places” (your phrase) do benefit from athletics. Emory, Rice, Washington U St. Louis, UChicago are each great academic schools but lack wider recognition than like great academic P5s Northwestern, Stanford, Duke and Norte Dame, and others.
A like analogy could be drawn to the exposure P5 athletics has provided Boston College versus The College of the Holy Cross which may be viewed as an academic peer of BC but draws far less applications which was the point of the Forbes article.
Likewise the Ivy League is, and was formed to be an athletic conference of schools of similar academic philosophies. If Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, or anyother had not been invited to join the Ivy League for athletics then their academic profile would be different from today.
UCONN, Syracuse. and all big time football schools which aren't top flight academic places need strong athletics.[/quote]
Don’t kid yourself ..... “top flight academic places” (your phrase) do benefit from athletics. Emory, Rice, Washington U St. Louis, UChicago are each great academic schools but lack wider recognition than like great academic P5s Northwestern, Stanford, Duke and Norte Dame, and others.
A like analogy could be drawn to the exposure P5 athletics has provided Boston College versus The College of the Holy Cross which may be viewed as an academic peer of BC but draws far less applications which was the point of the Forbes article.
Likewise the Ivy League is, and was formed to be an athletic conference of schools of similar academic philosophies. If Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, or anyother had not been invited to join the Ivy League for athletics then their academic profile would be different from today.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=403999]
UCONN, Syracuse. and all big time football schools which aren't top flight academic places need strong athletics.[/quote]
Don’t kid yourself ..... “top flight academic places” (your phrase) do benefit from athletics. Emory, Rice, Washington U St. Louis, UChicago are each great academic schools but lack wider recognition than like great academic P5s Northwestern, Stanford, Duke and Norte Dame, and others.
A like analogy could be drawn to the exposure P5 athletics has provided Boston College versus The College of the Holy Cross which may be viewed as an academic peer of BC but draws far less applications which was the point of the Forbes article.
Similarly the Ivy League is, and was formed to be an athletic conference of schools of similar academic philosophies. If Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, or anyother had not been invited to join the Ivy League for athletics then their academic profile would be different from today.
UCONN, Syracuse. and all big time football schools which aren't top flight academic places need strong athletics.[/quote]
Don’t kid yourself ..... “top flight academic places” (your phrase) do benefit from athletics. Emory, Rice, Washington U St. Louis, UChicago are each great academic schools but lack wider recognition than like great academic P5s Northwestern, Stanford, Duke and Norte Dame, and others.
A like analogy could be drawn to the exposure P5 athletics has provided Boston College versus The College of the Holy Cross which may be viewed as an academic peer of BC but draws far less applications which was the point of the Forbes article.
Similarly the Ivy League is, and was formed to be an athletic conference of schools of similar academic philosophies. If Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, or anyother had not been invited to join the Ivy League for athletics then their academic profile would be different from today.
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beast of the east
Active member
[quote="otis" post=404004][quote="Beast of the East" post=403999]
UCONN, Syracuse. and all big time football schools which aren't top flight academic places need strong athletics.[/quote]
Don’t kid yourself ..... “top flight academic places” (your phrase) do benefit from athletics. Emory, Rice, Washington U St. Louis, UChicago are each great academic schools but lack wider recognition than like great academic P5s Northwestern, Stanford, Duke and Norte Dame, and others.
A like analogy could be drawn to the exposure P5 athletics has provided Boston College versus The College of the Holy Cross which may be viewed as an academic peer of BC but draws far less applications which was the point of the Forbes article.
Similarly the Ivy League is, and was formed to be an athletic conference of schools of similar academic philosophies. If Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, or anyother had not been invited to join the Ivy League for athletics then their academic profile would be different from today.[/quote]
Actually, athletics at great academic schools benefit those schools via donations more than academic quality of students. Exposure really doesn't mean much. Everyone knows Georgetown, BC, and Duke are great academic schools that get a ton of interest.
Holy Cross, while a very good small liberal arts school is not really a peer of BC. BC has many professional schools, including Morrissey College of Arts & Sciences
Carroll School of Management
Lynch School of Education and Human Development
Connell School of Nursing
Boston College School of Social Work
Boston College Law School
Boston College School of Theology and Ministry
Woods College of Advancing Studies.
Holy Cross to my knowledge is simply a very good liberal arts college with about 2800 students.
I know the endowment at BC was about $5 billion last time I checked, which has been a while. They are both Jesuit, and both highly selective schools. I would guess that most Holy Cross accepted students just missed getting into Georgetown, Notre Dame, or BC, although there are always exceptions of kids who just felt comfortable on a smaller campus. What distinguishes BC from HC isn't really athletics but more options academically for students, and a more conveniently located and larger campus.
This is not negating the importance of winning athletics in branding a university. It has helped PC, but to be honest, PC was already in the next category at Gtown, BC, Villanova and HC in the Northeast before their basketball program starting achieving some success.
Father Stanley does have the right perspective, except for now he said he will root for St. John's except when we play Providence. We have to change that.
UCONN, Syracuse. and all big time football schools which aren't top flight academic places need strong athletics.[/quote]
Don’t kid yourself ..... “top flight academic places” (your phrase) do benefit from athletics. Emory, Rice, Washington U St. Louis, UChicago are each great academic schools but lack wider recognition than like great academic P5s Northwestern, Stanford, Duke and Norte Dame, and others.
A like analogy could be drawn to the exposure P5 athletics has provided Boston College versus The College of the Holy Cross which may be viewed as an academic peer of BC but draws far less applications which was the point of the Forbes article.
Similarly the Ivy League is, and was formed to be an athletic conference of schools of similar academic philosophies. If Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, or anyother had not been invited to join the Ivy League for athletics then their academic profile would be different from today.[/quote]
Actually, athletics at great academic schools benefit those schools via donations more than academic quality of students. Exposure really doesn't mean much. Everyone knows Georgetown, BC, and Duke are great academic schools that get a ton of interest.
Holy Cross, while a very good small liberal arts school is not really a peer of BC. BC has many professional schools, including Morrissey College of Arts & Sciences
Carroll School of Management
Lynch School of Education and Human Development
Connell School of Nursing
Boston College School of Social Work
Boston College Law School
Boston College School of Theology and Ministry
Woods College of Advancing Studies.
Holy Cross to my knowledge is simply a very good liberal arts college with about 2800 students.
I know the endowment at BC was about $5 billion last time I checked, which has been a while. They are both Jesuit, and both highly selective schools. I would guess that most Holy Cross accepted students just missed getting into Georgetown, Notre Dame, or BC, although there are always exceptions of kids who just felt comfortable on a smaller campus. What distinguishes BC from HC isn't really athletics but more options academically for students, and a more conveniently located and larger campus.
This is not negating the importance of winning athletics in branding a university. It has helped PC, but to be honest, PC was already in the next category at Gtown, BC, Villanova and HC in the Northeast before their basketball program starting achieving some success.
Father Stanley does have the right perspective, except for now he said he will root for St. John's except when we play Providence. We have to change that.
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Notre Dame has a somewhat similar 2 Year College of the Holy Cross across the Street from the Main Campus . If you recall the Movie , “ RUDY,” it’s where he studied prior to gaining admittance to ND for Junior and Senior Year . It’s not a Remedial College but , offers a Path to ND to kids who aren’t accepted to the 4 year school .. if you graduate from Holy Cross with a B average , they guarantee you entrance to ND for the final 2 years . According to
my Granddaughter who was a Regular admit and now in her Junior Year , the Holy Cross kids who have access to the main Campus , aren’t looked down upon at all ! Just a note , so as not to confuse , this Holy Cross is not affiliated with the Jesuit Holy Cross in Worcester . I think the Ranking organizations have penalized St John’s for accepting marginal Students into regular 4 Year Programs and having a separate institution like a Junior College as.a option for those Students is probably a good strategy . Back in my day , there was a 2 year Degree Program offered through a separate St Vincent’s College . I got to know many of the Students when they became classmates in my Junior and Senior years. . When all is said and done , there is NO Reason why St John ‘s should not crack the US News and World Report too 100 schools ! It’s a Goal , Fr Shanley should set to achieve .
my Granddaughter who was a Regular admit and now in her Junior Year , the Holy Cross kids who have access to the main Campus , aren’t looked down upon at all ! Just a note , so as not to confuse , this Holy Cross is not affiliated with the Jesuit Holy Cross in Worcester . I think the Ranking organizations have penalized St John’s for accepting marginal Students into regular 4 Year Programs and having a separate institution like a Junior College as.a option for those Students is probably a good strategy . Back in my day , there was a 2 year Degree Program offered through a separate St Vincent’s College . I got to know many of the Students when they became classmates in my Junior and Senior years. . When all is said and done , there is NO Reason why St John ‘s should not crack the US News and World Report too 100 schools ! It’s a Goal , Fr Shanley should set to achieve .
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=404008]Notre Dame has a somewhat similar 2 Year College of the Holy Cross across the Street from the Main Campus . If you recall the Movie , “ RUDY,” it’s where he studied prior to gaining admittance to ND for Junior and Senior Year . It’s not a Remedial College but , offers a Path to ND to kids who aren’t accepted to the 4 year school .. if you graduate from Holy Cross with a B average , they guarantee you entrance to ND for the final 2 years . According to
my Granddaughter who was a Regular admit and now in her Junior Year , the Holy Cross kids who have access to the main Campus , aren’t looked down upon at all ! Just a note , so as not to confuse , this Holy Cross is not affiliated with the Jesuit Holy Cross in Worcester . I think the Ranking organizations have penalized St John’s for accepting marginal Students into regular 4 Year Programs and having a separate institution like a Junior College as.a option for those Students is probably a good strategy . Back in my day , there was a 2 year Degree Program offered through a separate St Vincent’s College . I got to know many of the Students when they became classmates in my Junior and Senior years. . When all is said and done , there is NO Reason why St John ‘s should not crack the US News and World Report too 100 schools ! It’s a Goal , Fr Shanley should set to achieve .[/quote]
I have a friend whose kid was guaranteed admission to ND from HC upon his acceptance at HC after completing just one year. IT appears that ND has made Holy Cross more selective by admitting near misses to Notre Dame, and using Holy Cross kids to backfill soph and junior classes that were depleted to normal attrition. I'm not sure how many students are at HC and if all expect to be admitted to ND at some point. It's not a back door per se the way many Ivy's admit upperclassmen who were not close to Ivy standards, but perhaps a side door that allows ND to load up on near misses to fill sophomore, junior and senior classes.
my Granddaughter who was a Regular admit and now in her Junior Year , the Holy Cross kids who have access to the main Campus , aren’t looked down upon at all ! Just a note , so as not to confuse , this Holy Cross is not affiliated with the Jesuit Holy Cross in Worcester . I think the Ranking organizations have penalized St John’s for accepting marginal Students into regular 4 Year Programs and having a separate institution like a Junior College as.a option for those Students is probably a good strategy . Back in my day , there was a 2 year Degree Program offered through a separate St Vincent’s College . I got to know many of the Students when they became classmates in my Junior and Senior years. . When all is said and done , there is NO Reason why St John ‘s should not crack the US News and World Report too 100 schools ! It’s a Goal , Fr Shanley should set to achieve .[/quote]
I have a friend whose kid was guaranteed admission to ND from HC upon his acceptance at HC after completing just one year. IT appears that ND has made Holy Cross more selective by admitting near misses to Notre Dame, and using Holy Cross kids to backfill soph and junior classes that were depleted to normal attrition. I'm not sure how many students are at HC and if all expect to be admitted to ND at some point. It's not a back door per se the way many Ivy's admit upperclassmen who were not close to Ivy standards, but perhaps a side door that allows ND to load up on near misses to fill sophomore, junior and senior classes.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=404008]When all is said and done , there is NO Reason why St John ‘s should not crack the US News and World Report too 100 schools ! It’s a Goal , Fr Shanley should set to achieve .[/quote]
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.
[quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=403375][quote="19854ever" post=403271]An upgrade for sure I just hope and pray he can fix St. John's.
He seems like a young 62 and more personable and relatable than Fr. Donald J. Harrington. JSJ thanks for posting the interview on here great stuff: Also a President who actually had succces running a fellow Big East institution, a definete plus.
The following are some issues that SJU has and really needs to be addressed in no particular order:
1 .) What is the schools Covid 19 strategy going forward as it relates to on campus/distance learning? Which leads to another huge question should online learners get a tuition break?
2. ) Tuition is too darn high, the issue needs to be addressed/fixed etc. I have talked endlessly about this over the last 15 years on here but the problem only gets worse, is it moral for a Catholic University to put 22 years olds in $100,000 and more in debt ? How should the school address this ? How does SJU get a good student away from going to SUNY school?
3.) How will he fundraise, can he do what he did up at PC?
4.) Academics, can SJU improve its academic rankings while keeping with the Vincentian mission? I like how he talked about the first two years at PC lays the groundwork(THE, PHI, and ENG courses etc) can that model be applied to all schools within SJU? Can the University move to more STEM degrees?
5.) Conservatives can they be allowed to speak at St. John's anymore? or will they be shunned by the woke politically correct crowd? Can they have a voice like the liberals have a voice? Will he be fair and provide equal time for both sides, while maintaining respect towrds Catholic values?
6.) Carnesseca Arena? is it worth upgrading? Should we keep our MSG contract? or do we make the Belmont Arena our new home? What about the Barclays Center? Where will we play our mens basketball games when/if the world gets back to normal?
7.) Can he get Mike Repole back in the fold?
Thats all I got for now more will come up for sure in the future. Everyone on here feel free to ask your questions or what you would like to see addressed by Fr. Shanley.
l hope he will read this thread and hoefully maybe do an online zoom q and a.[/quote]
Happy Thanksgiving 19854ever,
As you are probably aware, 6 year graduation rate and first retention accounts for 22% of the grade in the U.S. News rankings
[URL]https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/how-us-news-calculated-the-rankings[/URL]
Bobby raised both retention and 6 year graduation rates from when he first came on board (retention at time was around 77%-78%) but we still need to improve (and I think we will) these metrics to get to a ranking of 125 or better
St. John's already gives out a very good chunk of financial aid, but given the fact that we have a Pell eligible student body of 40%, we need our alumni to support the effort to whatever degree that they can particularly those who have enjoyed outsized financial success)
Perhaps, Fr. Shanley can get those who have not been faithful to our alma mater to circle back to St. John's (along with their checkbooks)
The Vincentian mission is an admirable one and as SLYFOXX pointed out an individual check of $150 is certainly a reasonable gift from virtually each and every member of the alumni community.
As an aside, there is no need for anyone (who cannot afford it) to put themselves in debt for $100K
There is no law that says one needs to start college right after high school. One can work for 2 years and then go to a community college or work during the day and go to a junior college at night.
There are plenty of St. John's grad who worked their way through school or postponed school for a year or two.
Yes, it is more expensive now than in 1970 (or before) but it doesn't make the overall strategy any less true.
Working your way through school (year round and not just summer) has always been part of the typical student's DNA at St. John's.
Perhaps, the new model, for those who want a St. John's degree exclusively, is to graduate in 6 years.
That is for others to decide.
The average college debts somewhere around $25K.
In many cases (certainly not all), "triple digit" debt is carried by those who went to Medical or Law school.
If the #'s work someone should go to St. John's. If not , there are plenty of other more realistic alternatives, particularly in the tri-state area
Just one man's opinion.[/quote]. Outstanding Summary and some valuable inside information on Rankings , Student Performance , etc . Thank you JSJ! As always a great Alum of the School who exemplifies the qualities that more of us should share . When Schools like ND, BC , GTown , Villanova are mentioned , a lot of what they have attained is a result of Alumni loyalty and gifting . We should take notice , especially if we earnestly want the School’s Quality to improve . Not only on the BB Court but , the Court of Higher Education . We have long yearned , the last 20 years , for our BB Achievements return to what many of us knew as Students and Alums , it’s equally important the University aspire to similar Achievement Academically .
He seems like a young 62 and more personable and relatable than Fr. Donald J. Harrington. JSJ thanks for posting the interview on here great stuff: Also a President who actually had succces running a fellow Big East institution, a definete plus.
The following are some issues that SJU has and really needs to be addressed in no particular order:
1 .) What is the schools Covid 19 strategy going forward as it relates to on campus/distance learning? Which leads to another huge question should online learners get a tuition break?
2. ) Tuition is too darn high, the issue needs to be addressed/fixed etc. I have talked endlessly about this over the last 15 years on here but the problem only gets worse, is it moral for a Catholic University to put 22 years olds in $100,000 and more in debt ? How should the school address this ? How does SJU get a good student away from going to SUNY school?
3.) How will he fundraise, can he do what he did up at PC?
4.) Academics, can SJU improve its academic rankings while keeping with the Vincentian mission? I like how he talked about the first two years at PC lays the groundwork(THE, PHI, and ENG courses etc) can that model be applied to all schools within SJU? Can the University move to more STEM degrees?
5.) Conservatives can they be allowed to speak at St. John's anymore? or will they be shunned by the woke politically correct crowd? Can they have a voice like the liberals have a voice? Will he be fair and provide equal time for both sides, while maintaining respect towrds Catholic values?
6.) Carnesseca Arena? is it worth upgrading? Should we keep our MSG contract? or do we make the Belmont Arena our new home? What about the Barclays Center? Where will we play our mens basketball games when/if the world gets back to normal?
7.) Can he get Mike Repole back in the fold?
Thats all I got for now more will come up for sure in the future. Everyone on here feel free to ask your questions or what you would like to see addressed by Fr. Shanley.
l hope he will read this thread and hoefully maybe do an online zoom q and a.[/quote]
Happy Thanksgiving 19854ever,
As you are probably aware, 6 year graduation rate and first retention accounts for 22% of the grade in the U.S. News rankings
[URL]https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/how-us-news-calculated-the-rankings[/URL]
Bobby raised both retention and 6 year graduation rates from when he first came on board (retention at time was around 77%-78%) but we still need to improve (and I think we will) these metrics to get to a ranking of 125 or better
St. John's already gives out a very good chunk of financial aid, but given the fact that we have a Pell eligible student body of 40%, we need our alumni to support the effort to whatever degree that they can particularly those who have enjoyed outsized financial success)
Perhaps, Fr. Shanley can get those who have not been faithful to our alma mater to circle back to St. John's (along with their checkbooks)
The Vincentian mission is an admirable one and as SLYFOXX pointed out an individual check of $150 is certainly a reasonable gift from virtually each and every member of the alumni community.
As an aside, there is no need for anyone (who cannot afford it) to put themselves in debt for $100K
There is no law that says one needs to start college right after high school. One can work for 2 years and then go to a community college or work during the day and go to a junior college at night.
There are plenty of St. John's grad who worked their way through school or postponed school for a year or two.
Yes, it is more expensive now than in 1970 (or before) but it doesn't make the overall strategy any less true.
Working your way through school (year round and not just summer) has always been part of the typical student's DNA at St. John's.
Perhaps, the new model, for those who want a St. John's degree exclusively, is to graduate in 6 years.
That is for others to decide.
The average college debts somewhere around $25K.
In many cases (certainly not all), "triple digit" debt is carried by those who went to Medical or Law school.
If the #'s work someone should go to St. John's. If not , there are plenty of other more realistic alternatives, particularly in the tri-state area
Just one man's opinion.[/quote]. Outstanding Summary and some valuable inside information on Rankings , Student Performance , etc . Thank you JSJ! As always a great Alum of the School who exemplifies the qualities that more of us should share . When Schools like ND, BC , GTown , Villanova are mentioned , a lot of what they have attained is a result of Alumni loyalty and gifting . We should take notice , especially if we earnestly want the School’s Quality to improve . Not only on the BB Court but , the Court of Higher Education . We have long yearned , the last 20 years , for our BB Achievements return to what many of us knew as Students and Alums , it’s equally important the University aspire to similar Achievement Academically .
[quote="Beast of the East" post=404010][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=404008]When all is said and done , there is NO Reason why St John ‘s should not crack the US News and World Report too 100 schools ! It’s a Goal , Fr Shanley should set to achieve .[/quote]
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.[/quote]. Good points all, Beast ! You and JSJ , are widely acknowledged as loyal and dear Sons of the University . It will be Fr Shanley’s challenge to address the issues you have raised about Student Admissions .. I have long left NY but , aren’t the CUNY Schools more suited to the poor and more marginal Students at less Tuition than SJU? And , how successful has the University been in attracting qualified Students from out of the Metro Area ? Are the Dorms carrying their weight cost wise ? No doubt Fr Shanley will study these and other issues during his tenure .
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.[/quote]. Good points all, Beast ! You and JSJ , are widely acknowledged as loyal and dear Sons of the University . It will be Fr Shanley’s challenge to address the issues you have raised about Student Admissions .. I have long left NY but , aren’t the CUNY Schools more suited to the poor and more marginal Students at less Tuition than SJU? And , how successful has the University been in attracting qualified Students from out of the Metro Area ? Are the Dorms carrying their weight cost wise ? No doubt Fr Shanley will study these and other issues during his tenure .
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Couple of points about Holy Cross College (Notre Dame, Indiana)
First of all it is a 4 year college and is run by the Holy Cross Order (same as ND)
Second, Admission to the Gateway program is by invitation only.
One must meet the academic requirement set forth to be admitted to ND.
It's not guaranteed.
As SLYFOXX mentioned, ND is inclusive when it comes to welcoming Holy Cross and St. Mary's students.
They can be members of the band, the daily newspaper (The Observer) and many other clubs and activities.
Third, The retention rate at ND (those freshman who return for their second year) is very, very high.
It is 98% (same as Princeton and Penn)
That said, attrition at ND is almost non existent among the "regular" student body
Obviously, you may get a couple of athletes who transfer if they don't see a path to playing.
Holy Cross Wiki Page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Cross_College_(Indiana)
First of all it is a 4 year college and is run by the Holy Cross Order (same as ND)
Second, Admission to the Gateway program is by invitation only.
One must meet the academic requirement set forth to be admitted to ND.
It's not guaranteed.
As SLYFOXX mentioned, ND is inclusive when it comes to welcoming Holy Cross and St. Mary's students.
They can be members of the band, the daily newspaper (The Observer) and many other clubs and activities.
Third, The retention rate at ND (those freshman who return for their second year) is very, very high.
It is 98% (same as Princeton and Penn)
That said, attrition at ND is almost non existent among the "regular" student body
Obviously, you may get a couple of athletes who transfer if they don't see a path to playing.
Holy Cross Wiki Page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Cross_College_(Indiana)
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jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
[quote="Beast of the East" post=404010][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=404008]When all is said and done , there is NO Reason why St John ‘s should not crack the US News and World Report too 100 schools ! It’s a Goal , Fr Shanley should set to achieve .[/quote]
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.[/quote]
We have over 100 Tobin (CBA) students currently in the recently initiated Tomas J. Cox Jr. Honors Program.
[URL]https://www.stjohns.edu/sites/default/files/2020-10/201012_TCB_Honors_OPENHOUSE_v1.pdf[/URL]
That said, the metric(s) that will drive a higher (125) U.S. News rankings will be higher retention and 6 year graduation rates.
These two metrics account for 22% of the U.S. News ranking
If everyone wrote a $150 check today to St. John's we could certainly help a lot of students graduate within the 6 year time frame, IMO.
And yes, I am mailing my check tomorrow morning.
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.[/quote]
We have over 100 Tobin (CBA) students currently in the recently initiated Tomas J. Cox Jr. Honors Program.
[URL]https://www.stjohns.edu/sites/default/files/2020-10/201012_TCB_Honors_OPENHOUSE_v1.pdf[/URL]
That said, the metric(s) that will drive a higher (125) U.S. News rankings will be higher retention and 6 year graduation rates.
These two metrics account for 22% of the U.S. News ranking
If everyone wrote a $150 check today to St. John's we could certainly help a lot of students graduate within the 6 year time frame, IMO.
And yes, I am mailing my check tomorrow morning.
Last edited:
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=404014][quote="Beast of the East" post=404010][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=404008]When all is said and done , there is NO Reason why St John ‘s should not crack the US News and World Report too 100 schools ! It’s a Goal , Fr Shanley should set to achieve .[/quote]
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.[/quote]. Good points all, Beast ! You and JSJ , are widely acknowledged as loyal and dear Sons of the University . It will be Fr Shanley’s challenge to address the issues you have raised about Student Admissions .. I have long left NY but , aren’t the CUNY Schools more suited to the poor and more marginal Students at less Tuition than SJU? And , how successful has the University been in attracting qualified Students from out of the Metro Area ? Are the Dorms carrying their weight cost wise ? No doubt Fr Shanley will study these and other issues during his tenure .[/quote]
Obviously, this is a one off but I have had the privilege to get to know a young man who came to St. John's from Seattle
After graduation, he was a Fulbright Scholar
He is now a 3L at Harvard
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.[/quote]. Good points all, Beast ! You and JSJ , are widely acknowledged as loyal and dear Sons of the University . It will be Fr Shanley’s challenge to address the issues you have raised about Student Admissions .. I have long left NY but , aren’t the CUNY Schools more suited to the poor and more marginal Students at less Tuition than SJU? And , how successful has the University been in attracting qualified Students from out of the Metro Area ? Are the Dorms carrying their weight cost wise ? No doubt Fr Shanley will study these and other issues during his tenure .[/quote]
Obviously, this is a one off but I have had the privilege to get to know a young man who came to St. John's from Seattle
After graduation, he was a Fulbright Scholar
He is now a 3L at Harvard
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=404010][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=404008]When all is said and done , there is NO Reason why St John ‘s should not crack the US News and World Report too 100 schools ! It’s a Goal , Fr Shanley should set to achieve .[/quote]
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.[/quote]
Beast, I happen to disagree with your Pell Grant statement being the only reason. It appears to be very "classist", as if there is a corollary between income and intelligence. I could just as easily say that the reason St Johns will not reach the Top 100 is because they accept Catholic High School graduates who were in the bottom half of their graduating class and used St Johns as a fail safe option.
Instead of trying to place blame on a particular group of students, I hope our new President focuses on how we can enhance our services to improve the educational experience and outcome for all of our students.
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.[/quote]
Beast, I happen to disagree with your Pell Grant statement being the only reason. It appears to be very "classist", as if there is a corollary between income and intelligence. I could just as easily say that the reason St Johns will not reach the Top 100 is because they accept Catholic High School graduates who were in the bottom half of their graduating class and used St Johns as a fail safe option.
Instead of trying to place blame on a particular group of students, I hope our new President focuses on how we can enhance our services to improve the educational experience and outcome for all of our students.
[quote="panther2" post=404025][quote="Beast of the East" post=404010][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=404008]When all is said and done , there is NO Reason why St John ‘s should not crack the US News and World Report too 100 schools ! It’s a Goal , Fr Shanley should set to achieve .[/quote]
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.[/quote]
Beast, I happen to disagree with your Pell Grant statement being the only reason. It appears to be very "classist", as if there is a corollary between income and intelligence. I could just as easily say that the reason St Johns will not reach the Top 100 is because they accept Catholic High School graduates who were in the bottom half of their graduating class and used St Johns as a fail safe option.
Instead of trying to place blame on a particular group of students, I hope our new President focuses on how we can enhance our services to improve the educational experience and outcome for all of our students.[/quote]
Does SJU still have an Associates Degree (2 yr) program?
Well, there is a big reason. If we continue to admit 40% of the student body which is Pell eligible and as a group are not as academically qualified as their peers, there is no chance we could crack the top 100. We can however elevate high academics, perhaps by the creation of an honors college like Macaulay honors college in CUNY. Hofstra has about 1300 students admitted across all majors into its honors college, which is a large % of their overall student population. So long as we retain a strong mission to the poor in the manner we do it, 4 year and 6 year graduation rates will lag and keep us lower in the ratings.[/quote]
Beast, I happen to disagree with your Pell Grant statement being the only reason. It appears to be very "classist", as if there is a corollary between income and intelligence. I could just as easily say that the reason St Johns will not reach the Top 100 is because they accept Catholic High School graduates who were in the bottom half of their graduating class and used St Johns as a fail safe option.
Instead of trying to place blame on a particular group of students, I hope our new President focuses on how we can enhance our services to improve the educational experience and outcome for all of our students.[/quote]
Does SJU still have an Associates Degree (2 yr) program?
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
www.stjohns.edu/academics/programs/liberal-arts-associate-arts
www.stjohns.edu/academics/programs/crimi...ce-associate-science
www.associatedegreeonline.com/universiti...johns-university.php
www.stjohns.edu/academics/programs/crimi...ce-associate-science
www.associatedegreeonline.com/universiti...johns-university.php