New SJU President: Rev. Brian J. Shanley, OP, President of Providence College

My belief is that 30 years ago the academics of Providence and St.John’s we’re pretty comparable. The stats below indicate that Providence is today several steps ahead of our beloved St.John’s which is evidence of the terrific job President Shanley delivered at Providence over his 15 year tenure.

Providence College compared to St. John’s by the numbers
(Cite: The College Board)

SAT reading/writing
PC 610 - 670
SJ. 540- 640

SAT math
PC 600 - 680
SJ. 540- 660

SAT Total
PC 1210 - 1350
SJ 1080- 1300

% of Applicants Admitted - Yield %
PC 47% ........................................20%
SJ. 72% ........................... ........... 14.9%

Graduation Rate within 6 years
PC 87%
SJ. 63%

Average financial aid package
PC $38,107
SJ. $30,971

% of need met
PC 92%
SJ. 72%

US News Rankings
PC
Overall score 100 out of 100
#1 Regional University North
#1 Best Undergraduate Teaching
#10 best value

SJ
Overall score = 52 out of 100
#170 National Universities
#142 best value schools
 
[quote="otis" post=402772]My belief is that 30 years ago the academics of Providence and St.John’s we’re pretty comparable. The stats below indicate that Providence is today several steps ahead of our beloved St.John’s which is evidence of the terrific job President Shanley delivered at Providence over his 15 year tenure.

Providence College compared to St. John’s by the numbers
(Cite: The College Board)

SAT reading/writing
PC 610 - 670
SJ. 540- 640

SAT math
PC 600 - 680
SJ. 540- 660

SAT Total
PC 1210 - 1350
SJ 1080- 1300

% of Applicants Admitted - Yield %
PC 47% ........................................20%
SJ. 72% ........................... ........... 14.9%

Graduation Rate within 6 years
PC 87%
SJ. 63%

Average financial aid package
PC $38,107
SJ. $30,971

% of need met
PC 92%
SJ. 72%

US News Rankings
PC
Overall score 100 out of 100
#1 Regional University North
#1 Best Undergraduate Teaching
#10 best value

SJ
Overall score = 52 out of 100
#170 National Universities
#142 best value schools[/quote]

https://college-ranks.com/college/217402-providence-college/

14% of PC students receive Pell Grants.

Our % is about 40%

Trust everyone is getting their wallet out.

Fr. Shanley is a great fund raiser.
 
[quote="otis" post=402772]My belief is that 30 years ago the academics of Providence and St.John’s we’re pretty comparable. The stats below indicate that Providence is today several steps ahead of our beloved St.John’s which is evidence of the terrific job President Shanley delivered at Providence over his 15 year tenure.

Providence College compared to St. John’s by the numbers
(Cite: The College Board)

SAT reading/writing
PC 610 - 670
SJ. 540- 640

SAT math
PC 600 - 680
SJ. 540- 660

SAT Total
PC 1210 - 1350
SJ 1080- 1300

% of Applicants Admitted - Yield %
PC 47% ........................................20%
SJ. 72% ........................... ........... 14.9%

Graduation Rate within 6 years
PC 87%
SJ. 63%

Average financial aid package
PC $38,107
SJ. $30,971

% of need met
PC 92%
SJ. 72%

US News Rankings
PC
Overall score 100 out of 100
#1 Regional University North
#1 Best Undergraduate Teaching
#10 best value

SJ
Overall score = 52 out of 100
#170 National Universities
#142 best value schools[/quote]

To be completely fair, by the time Father Shanley took over in 2006, Providence was already the next school in line in the northeast after (no particular order) Holy Cross, BC, Georgetown, Villanova. They were already more difficult to gain admission than Fordham and Loyola MD and Fairfield among area Catholic Universities. I would think that the typical Providence student also applied to one or more of the top four Catholic schools in the Northeast. My kids applied to PC in 2004 and 2006, and it was already about in the same order as today. All Catholic schools I listed have become more competitive, not just PC, continuing a trend that in the northeast in particular, parents and students play the rankings game in terms of the school they select.
 
The Credentials that Fr Shanley possesses are impressive . Without a doubt he contributed much to the growth of PC in Academics and Development . I’m not sure I understand the logistics of how a Dominican Priest who essentially was denied continuance as PC President by his Religious Superiors has the freedom of going to another Catholic and Vincentian School to become St John’s President . I too , agree that St John’s is the Winner here . I would have thought he would have been tied to the Dominicans and obviously that is not the case . Does he still answer to the Dominican Hierarchy ? Regardless of those strings , if they exist , Fr Shanley would be sought after by numerous Schools , even if he wasn’t a Priest. I’m sure he will be Welcomed heartily by Students , Alums ,Friends of the School, etc I agree with Jersey. Shore Johnny , it’s a good time as part of the University’s 150 year Anniversary , to open the check book and make a donation to Alma Mater . One could start with $150 bucks to commemorate the 150 year Anniversary .
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=403241]The Credentials that Fr Shanley possesses are impressive . Without a doubt he contributed much to the growth of PC in Academics and Development . I’m not sure I understand the logistics of how a Dominican Priest who essentially was denied continuance as PC President by his Religious Superiors has the freedom of going to another Catholic and Vincentian School to become St John’s President . I too , agree that St John’s is the Winner here . I would have thought he would have been tied to the Dominicans and obviously that is not the case . Does he still answer to the Dominican Hierarchy ? Regardless of those strings , if they exist , Fr Shanley would be sought after by numerous Schools , even if he wasn’t a Priest. I’m sure he will be Welcomed heartily by Students , Alums ,Friends of the School, etc I agree with Jersey. Shore Johnny , it’s a good time as part of the University’s 150 year Anniversary , to open the check book and make a donation to Alma Mater . One could start with $150 bucks to commemorate the 150 year Anniversary .[/quote]

Almost certainly had to request and receive permission to accept an assignment outside of Dominican community. And is still subject to their authority.
 
I should have paid attention in those theology classes because I have no idea what all these orders mean and why it’s such a big thing
 
An upgrade for sure I just hope and pray he can fix St. John's.

He seems like a young 62 and more personable and relatable than Fr. Donald J. Harrington. JSJ thanks for posting the interview on here great stuff: Also a President who actually had succces running a fellow Big East institution, a definete plus.

The following are some issues that SJU has and really needs to be addressed in no particular order:

1 .) What is the schools Covid 19 strategy going forward as it relates to on campus/distance learning? Which leads to another huge question should online learners get a tuition break?

2. ) Tuition is too darn high, the issue needs to be addressed/fixed etc. I have talked endlessly about this over the last 15 years on here but the problem only gets worse, is it moral for a Catholic University to put 22 years olds in $100,000 and more in debt ? How should the school address this ? How does SJU get a good student away from going to SUNY school?

3.) How will he fundraise, can he do what he did up at PC?

4.) Academics, can SJU improve its academic rankings while keeping with the Vincentian mission? I like how he talked about the first two years at PC lays the groundwork(THE, PHI, and ENG courses etc) can that model be applied to all schools within SJU? Can the University move to more STEM degrees?

5.) Conservatives can they be allowed to speak at St. John's anymore? or will they be shunned by the woke politically correct crowd? Can they have a voice like the liberals have a voice? Will he be fair and provide equal time for both sides, while maintaining respect towrds Catholic values?

6.) Carnesseca Arena? is it worth upgrading? Should we keep our MSG contract? or do we make the Belmont Arena our new home? What about the Barclays Center? Where will we play our mens basketball games when/if the world gets back to normal?

7.) Can he get Mike Repole back in the fold?

Thats all I got for now more will come up for sure in the future. Everyone on here feel free to ask your questions or what you would like to see addressed by Fr. Shanley.

l hope he will read this thread and hoefully maybe do an online zoom q and a.
 
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[quote="19854ever" post=403271]An upgrade for sure I just hope and pray he can fix St. John's.

He seems like a young 62 and more personable and relatable than Fr. Donald J. Harrington. JSJ thanks for posting the interview on here great stuff: Also a President who actually had succces running a fellow Big East institution, a definete plus.

The following are some issues that SJU has and really needs to be addressed in no particular order:

2. ) Tuition is too darn high, the issue needs to be addressed/fixed etc. I have talked endlessly about this over the last 15 years on here but the problem only gets worse, is it moral for a Catholic University to put 22 years olds in $100,000 and more in debt ? How should the school address this ? How does SJU get a good student away from going to SUNY school?

4.) Academics, can SJU improve its academic rankings while keeping with the Vincentian mission? I like how he talked about the first two years at PC lays the groundwork(THE, PHI, and ENG courses etc) can that model be applied to all schools within SJU? Can the University move to more STEM degrees?

Thats all I got for now more will come up for sure in the future. Everyone on here feel free to ask your questions or what you would like to see addressed by Fr. Shanley.

l hope he will read this thread and hoefully maybe do an online zoom q and a.[/quote]

Seems like a very good hire. But for SJU to be really fixed, the Board has to be willing to make the necessary changes. Cut programs, reduce the sizes of the incoming classes, raise the academic standards for admission. All that can be done and still be consistent with the Vincentian mission.

They can’t lower tuition unless faculty and administration agree to salary cuts. How do you propose getting them (and their union) to agree to that?

The basketball program needs MSG, no question. A top on campus arena would be great but we can’t afford it.
 
[quote="19854ever" post=403271]An upgrade for sure I just hope and pray he can fix St. John's.

He seems like a young 62 and more personable and relatable than Fr. Donald J. Harrington. JSJ thanks for posting the interview on here great stuff: Also a President who actually had succces running a fellow Big East institution, a definete plus.

The following are some issues that SJU has and really needs to be addressed in no particular order:

1 .) What is the schools Covid 19 strategy going forward as it relates to on campus/distance learning? Which leads to another huge question should online learners get a tuition break?

2. ) Tuition is too darn high, the issue needs to be addressed/fixed etc. I have talked endlessly about this over the last 15 years on here but the problem only gets worse, is it moral for a Catholic University to put 22 years olds in $100,000 and more in debt ? How should the school address this ? How does SJU get a good student away from going to SUNY school?

3.) How will he fundraise, can he do what he did up at PC?

4.) Academics, can SJU improve its academic rankings while keeping with the Vincentian mission? I like how he talked about the first two years at PC lays the groundwork(THE, PHI, and ENG courses etc) can that model be applied to all schools within SJU? Can the University move to more STEM degrees?

5.) Conservatives can they be allowed to speak at St. John's anymore? or will they be shunned by the woke politically correct crowd? Can they have a voice like the liberals have a voice? Will he be fair and provide equal time for both sides, while maintaining respect towrds Catholic values?

6.) Carnesseca Arena? is it worth upgrading? Should we keep our MSG contract? or do we make the Belmont Arena our new home? What about the Barclays Center? Where will we play our mens basketball games when/if the world gets back to normal?

7.) Can he get Mike Repole back in the fold?

Thats all I got for now more will come up for sure in the future. Everyone on here feel free to ask your questions or what you would like to see addressed by Fr. Shanley.

l hope he will read this thread and hoefully maybe do an online zoom q and a.[/quote]

Happy Thanksgiving 19854ever,

As you are probably aware, 6 year graduation rate and first retention accounts for 22% of the grade in the U.S. News rankings

[URL]https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/how-us-news-calculated-the-rankings[/URL]

Bobby raised both retention and 6 year graduation rates from when he first came on board (retention at time was around 77%-78%) but we still need to improve (and I think we will) these metrics to get to a ranking of 125 or better

St. John's already gives out a very good chunk of financial aid, but given the fact that we have a Pell eligible student body of 40%, we need our alumni to support the effort to whatever degree that they can particularly those who have enjoyed outsized financial success)

Perhaps, Fr. Shanley can get those who have not been faithful to our alma mater to circle back to St. John's (along with their checkbooks)

The Vincentian mission is an admirable one and as SLYFOXX pointed out an individual check of $150 is certainly a reasonable gift from virtually each and every member of the alumni community.

As an aside, there is no need for anyone (who cannot afford it) to put themselves in debt for $100K

There is no law that says one needs to start college right after high school. One can work for 2 years and then go to a community college or work during the day and go to a junior college at night.

There are plenty of St. John's grad who worked their way through school or postponed school for a year or two.

Yes, it is more expensive now than in 1970 (or before) but it doesn't make the overall strategy any less true.

Working your way through school (year round and not just summer) has always been part of the typical student's DNA at St. John's.

Perhaps, the new model, for those who want a St. John's degree exclusively, is to graduate in 6 years.

That is for others to decide.

The average college debts somewhere around $25K.

In many cases (certainly not all), "triple digit" debt is carried by those who went to Medical or Law school.

If the #'s work someone should go to St. John's. If not , there are plenty of other more realistic alternatives, particularly in the tri-state area

Just one man's opinion.
 
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Somebody should send the new president the article in the Athletic about the Gonzaga basketball program’s effect on enrollment. In 1998 they were down to 3000 students with a million dollar shortfall, wondering whether they could continue as a university. Then the elite 8 appearance began a great run, and surprise, surprise enrollments went way up and alumni remembered their school again.
 
[quote="BasketballJones" post=403653]Somebody should send the new president the article in the Athletic about the Gonzaga basketball program’s effect on enrollment. In 1998 they were down to 3000 students with a million dollar shortfall, wondering whether they could continue as a university. Then the elite 8 appearance began a great run, and surprise, surprise enrollments went way up and alumni remembered their school again.[/quote]

This?

https://theathletic.com/2214508/202...p/?article_source=search&search_query=gonzaga
 
Yes sir. An excellent example how building the basketball program makes for a place students want to go to school. Quite amazing what they’ve been able to do. St. John’s with coach Anderson wouldn’t even have to have 20 years of tournament excellence to make the same thing happen. I’m old enough to remember 1985 and the Redmen being toughest ticket in town.
 
We are nowhere near PC in terms of academic perception right now. We accept almost all students who apply even with poor GPA's for undergrad. PC is quite selective. I have family who went there and I've been there several times. It's more like a VIllanova/BC type. Could be their cousin. Kids from rich families, great students, take academics seriously and emphasis on diversity comes after standards are met. Here it seems we just want to help 1st generation college students from poor backgrounds. That's a nice mission, but our academics will always be poor the longer that goes on. As I've said many times, our undergrad selectivity is a joke. We have pretty good graduate programs though and the standards are higher there than typical grad schools in the area. SJ requires interviews and GRE exams. Adelphi, Hofstra, etc. don't. So we are able to keep a bit of prestige in graduate studies.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=403665]We are nowhere near PC in terms of academic perception right now. We accept almost all students who apply even with poor GPA's for undergrad. PC is quite selective. I have family who went there and I've been there several times. It's more like a VIllanova/BC type. Could be their cousin. Kids from rich families, great students, take academics seriously and emphasis on diversity comes after standards are met. Here it seems we just want to help 1st generation college students from poor backgrounds. That's a nice mission, but our academics will always be poor the longer that goes on. As I've said many times, our undergrad selectivity is a joke. We have pretty good graduate programs though and the standards are higher there than typical grad schools in the area. SJ requires interviews and GRE exams. Adelphi, Hofstra, etc. don't. So we are able to keep a bit of prestige in graduate studies.[/quote]

You might be interested to know that PC was ranked #51 and St. John's #52 in Poet's and Quants (a well respected ranking service. As an aside Business Week rankings were discredited a number of years ago) 2020 rankings of undergraduate business schools.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=403665]We are nowhere near PC in terms of academic perception right now. We accept almost all students who apply even with poor GPA's for undergrad. PC is quite selective. I have family who went there and I've been there several times. It's more like a VIllanova/BC type. Could be their cousin. Kids from rich families, great students, take academics seriously and emphasis on diversity comes after standards are met. Here it seems we just want to help 1st generation college students from poor backgrounds. That's a nice mission, but our academics will always be poor the longer that goes on. As I've said many times, our undergrad selectivity is a joke. We have pretty good graduate programs though and the standards are higher there than typical grad schools in the area. SJ requires interviews and GRE exams. Adelphi, Hofstra, etc. don't. So we are able to keep a bit of prestige in graduate studies.[/quote]

Even in the days where we attracted local kids who were often the first in their family to attend college, we accepted students with marginal or sub-par credentials who were often shepherded to St. Vincen'ts college. However we also had a lot of kids whose own children attended Ivy league schools and the best Catholic universities in the country. Even today, you may be surprised of the result if you applied to pharmacy school, where a 1400 SAT could get you rejected.

The outreach to very good Catholic schools like Chaminade and St. Anthony's has resulted in almost 50 students from those 2 schools selecting St. John's each year. There is no reason we cannot attract more high quality academically qualified students and less marginal students. Of course, to attract the very best students, we have to offer more academic scholarships. The cost of that falls on alumni to donate and not just gripe about inferior rankings.

Keep in mind that when a great school offers a minority student with a 1300-1600 SAT a scholarship, they aren't really doing anything great for that kid, but are competing with dozens, maybe hundreds of schools trying to attract such candidates. So if we adopt PC or BC type selectivity, our mission to the poor evaporates
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=403749][quote="Mike Zaun" post=403665]We are nowhere near PC in terms of academic perception right now. We accept almost all students who apply even with poor GPA's for undergrad. PC is quite selective. I have family who went there and I've been there several times. It's more like a VIllanova/BC type. Could be their cousin. Kids from rich families, great students, take academics seriously and emphasis on diversity comes after standards are met. Here it seems we just want to help 1st generation college students from poor backgrounds. That's a nice mission, but our academics will always be poor the longer that goes on. As I've said many times, our undergrad selectivity is a joke. We have pretty good graduate programs though and the standards are higher there than typical grad schools in the area. SJ requires interviews and GRE exams. Adelphi, Hofstra, etc. don't. So we are able to keep a bit of prestige in graduate studies.[/quote]

Even in the days where we attracted local kids who were often the first in their family to attend college, we accepted students with marginal or sub-par credentials who were often shepherded to St. Vincen'ts college. However we also had a lot of kids whose own children attended Ivy league schools and the best Catholic universities in the country. Even today, you may be surprised of the result if you applied to pharmacy school, where a 1400 SAT could get you rejected.

The outreach to very good Catholic schools like Chaminade and St. Anthony's has resulted in almost 50 students from those 2 schools selecting St. John's each year. There is no reason we cannot attract more high quality academically qualified students and less marginal students. Of course, to attract the very best students, we have to offer more academic scholarships. The cost of that falls on alumni to donate and not just gripe about inferior rankings.

Keep in mind that when a great school offers a minority student with a 1300-1600 SAT a scholarship, they aren't really doing anything great for that kid, but are competing with dozens, maybe hundreds of schools trying to attract such candidates. So if we adopt PC or BC type selectivity, our mission to the poor evaporates[/quote]

Nonsense on your last point. The problem is we are too big. Cut the class size 20% by raising admission standards. Cut duplicative programs and staff and get rid of the Staten Island campus to cut down the budget. Require at least a B average to get admitted. Our academic reputation would jump up, the opportunities for our grads would improve, and we would still be helping the worthy underprivileged.
 
One option to remain true to the original mission might be to go down path that Loyola University Chicago has. They started Arrupe College - a 2 year associates program in a few areas, with controlled cost model but still not open door to enter...... with path to 4 yr degree at Loyola

[URL]https://www.luc.edu/arrupe/about/whyarrupe/[/URL]
 
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