Mullin

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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=299071][quote="Catman" post=299058]I also get the sense, and this is pure conjecture, that Mullin and staff are a bit too cavalier for my taste in running the program. There never seems to be a sense of urgency with him! This is a function of hiring a coach who frankly does not need the job nor the money! But who am I to say this is probably his style as disconcerting as it can be at times! The question here is what is Cragg’s style and will they conflict?
Let’s hope not!!!!![/quote]

Totally agree...that's the downside to hiring an NBA HOFer who is already established and set in his ways. I think being an NBA HOFer might also give him a certain philosophy of, "who are you to tell me ______?" which is probably why we didn't get an assistant coach to help recruit. Bit different but think of Erik Spoelstra the HC of the Heat when they had LeBron. He wasn't making the decisions and running the ship...LeBron was. Not exactly the same but you can imagine LeBron being a bit arrogant if Spoelstra asked him to do something differently. He sees it from a similar POV of "I'm a star and I'm established...I'll do what I deem necessary".

When we hired him we were hoping that the HOF label and Dream Team connects would help make recruits swoon but that has not been the case at all really. You have to remember, I'm 29 and he was before my time as a player. These recruits are 10+ years younger than me. It would be different if we had a more recent NBA star like Kobe Bryant as coach. Then you would definitely see an impact recruiting. I'm still on campus a decent amount and I've never seen Mullin walking about. Never heard of any fan experience type meet and greets with him on campus. The only way you seem to be able to reach him is if you pay $1,000 for a dinner in a ritzy Manhattan hall. Students are broke and some aren't even getting good jobs until they're 25 or so if they get a graduate degree. Thus, you are inaccessible to that demographic which is the very core demo you need to pack the house. This year may determine whether or not we make the tourney for the next decade or so, because if we fall short he likely resigns and we rebuild again.[/quote]

I agree about Mullin. He's been so successful his whole life and not used to having to answer to anybody. Part of the downfall like you said. Honestly, if we had any type of legit administration in place, that type of issue could have been weeded out early on before determining that Mullin was the right guy or not.
 
I agree Room, however we still need to see how Cragg handles certain situations when it involves Coach. People can say whatever, but actions speak louder.
 
[quote="Room112" post=299079][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299071][quote="Catman" post=299058]I also get the sense, and this is pure conjecture, that Mullin and staff are a bit too cavalier for my taste in running the program. There never seems to be a sense of urgency with him! This is a function of hiring a coach who frankly does not need the job nor the money! But who am I to say this is probably his style as disconcerting as it can be at times! The question here is what is Cragg’s style and will they conflict?
Let’s hope not!!!!![/quote]

Totally agree...that's the downside to hiring an NBA HOFer who is already established and set in his ways. I think being an NBA HOFer might also give him a certain philosophy of, "who are you to tell me ______?" which is probably why we didn't get an assistant coach to help recruit. Bit different but think of Erik Spoelstra the HC of the Heat when they had LeBron. He wasn't making the decisions and running the ship...LeBron was. Not exactly the same but you can imagine LeBron being a bit arrogant if Spoelstra asked him to do something differently. He sees it from a similar POV of "I'm a star and I'm established...I'll do what I deem necessary".

When we hired him we were hoping that the HOF label and Dream Team connects would help make recruits swoon but that has not been the case at all really. You have to remember, I'm 29 and he was before my time as a player. These recruits are 10+ years younger than me. It would be different if we had a more recent NBA star like Kobe Bryant as coach. Then you would definitely see an impact recruiting. I'm still on campus a decent amount and I've never seen Mullin walking about. Never heard of any fan experience type meet and greets with him on campus. The only way you seem to be able to reach him is if you pay $1,000 for a dinner in a ritzy Manhattan hall. Students are broke and some aren't even getting good jobs until they're 25 or so if they get a graduate degree. Thus, you are inaccessible to that demographic which is the very core demo you need to pack the house. This year may determine whether or not we make the tourney for the next decade or so, because if we fall short he likely resigns and we rebuild again.[/quote]

I agree about Mullin. He's been so successful his whole life and not used to having to answer to anybody. Part of the downfall like you said. Honestly, if we had any type of legit administration in place, that type of issue could have been weeded out early on before determining that Mullin was the right guy or not.[/quote]

It doesn't matter who you are, he took a job as coach here, at a job you'll always have a boss to answer too.
WTF makes Mullin so special? Oh, he's an nba hof'er? Original member of the dream team?
Well that's all good, but at the end of the day, that means nothing. You're a coach that has a boss, if you don't like it the simply step down.
If there's one thing I hate, it's people that think they're all high and mighty. Guess what Chris, at the end of the day you're still human just like everyone else.
 
If we don't have a good year, I expect this will turn into the absolute worst case scenario for Chris.

The reason is not simply because he will go out a loser, but more so why he failed. A mix of arrogance, stubbornness, and perhaps worst of all a lack of effort in recruiting and other areas (relative to D1 coaches).

All those negatives will create a hostile backlash from fans. People would be far more lenient if he took the necessary steps to be successful. His name won't matter when he's getting paid millions of dollars a year.

Win and none of the above matters, but would be a sad way to end his legacy if he doesn't.
 
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[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=299114]
It doesn't matter who you are, he took a job as coach here, at a job you'll always have a boss to answer too.
WTF makes Mullin so special? Oh, he's an nba hof'er? Original member of the dream team?
Well that's all good, but at the end of the day, that means nothing. You're a coach that has a boss, if you don't like it the simply step down.
If there's one thing I hate, it's people that think they're all high and mighty. Guess what Chris, at the end of the day you're still human just like everyone else.[/quote]

I posted the other day that I didn't think he was on hot seat, and there's no way he wouldn't be back aside from the improbable scenario that we aren't great this season but every player comes back for another crack at it.

But after his chilly reaction when asked about the new boss, I'm not so sure anymore.
 
I have a feeling that he leaves regardless whether this year is a success or not.He seems much more interested in the NBA world than his coaching job. If he was serious about coaching, he would have hired a X & O coach this off season. I think he and Mitch ride off in the sunset.

I feel confident that Cragg will find someone to lead this program forward in a sustainable way. First time in a long time we can feel confident that someone really has their hands on the wheel.
 
[quote="Adam" post=299118]If we don't have a good year, I expect this will turn into the absolute worst case scenario for Chris.

The reason is not simply because he will go out a loser, but more so why he failed. A mix of arrogance, stubbornness, and perhaps worst of all a lack of effort in recruiting and other areas (relative to D1 coaches).

All those negatives will create a hostile backlash from fans. People would be far more lenient if he took the necessary steps to be successful. His name won't matter when he's getting paid millions of dollars a year.

Win and none of the above matters, but would be a sad way to end his legacy if he doesn't.[/quote]


I hope and expect St. John's will have a great season, so this will be a moot issue, and our HS recruiting efforts will reap success from the season's results.
Just unfortunate, this is even a side issue.
Total speculation, but I think it emanates from 4*/5*'s turning him down (Sampson / Diallo) in his first recruiting efforts in the Spring of '15.
That experience soured him on having to woo HS kids, perhaps a bit like the great Al McGuire's views on recruiting.
Let the games begin.
 
This is the second time in past week or two I've seen this sort of take from Chris, and it sucks. How about some ownership from the Head Coach? Anyone with half a brain knows we were outmanned most nights, but the coach has to come and out and basically throw ex players who busted their tails for him under the bus? I don't get it.

Interesting perspective from Chris Mullin who stopped himself from saying St. John’s ‘overachieved’ in his first 2 seasons (22-43, 8-28 Big East). https://twitter.com/hashtag/sjubb?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw t=_self]#sjubb[/url]

‘We didn’t walk into many games where we were the favorites - I know that much’ https://t.co/OvZX07zKVJ t=_self]pic.twitter.com/OvZX07zKVJ[/url]— Marley Paul (@MarleyPaul22) https://twitter.com/MarleyPaul22/status/1055547486192975872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw t=_self]October 25, 2018[/url]
 
[quote="MSP710" post=299125]I have a feeling that he leaves regardless whether this year is a success or not.He seems much more interested in the NBA world than his coaching job. If he was serious about coaching, he would have hired a X & O coach this off season. I think he and Mitch ride off in the sunset.

I feel confident that Cragg will find someone to lead this program forward in a sustainable way. First time in a long time we can feel confident that someone really has their hands on the wheel.[/quote]

If Mullin steps down, I hope the next coach is a hungry up and comer, after Lavin and Mullin, no more hot shots who think they're gods gift to SJU.
Well Mark Jackson, didn't they have a Mark Jackson bobble head night a few years ago? Is the relations still icey, or patched up? To bad Bill Wennington (NBA player) couldn't join Mullin's staff over Mitch.
Does Bill have any coaching experience anywhere?

Trying to think of former SJU players with coaching experience, if none then get a hungry assistant from a big time school, or a top coach at a small school.
The Wichita St. coach? Yeah, why leave there for SJU right?
He can rock NYC and MSG. With the Knicks and Rangers sucking, He'll own nyc and msg.
Plus the endorsements you get rocking nyc. Broadway, the brightlights.
 
[quote="Adam" post=299118]If we don't have a good year, I expect this will turn into the absolute worst case scenario for Chris.

The reason is not simply because he will go out a loser, but more so why he failed. A mix of arrogance, stubbornness, and perhaps worst of all a lack of effort in recruiting and other areas (relative to D1 coaches).

All those negatives will create a hostile backlash from fans. People would be far more lenient if he took the necessary steps to be successful. His name won't matter when he's getting paid millions of dollars a year.

Win and none of the above matters, but would be a sad way to end his legacy if he doesn't.[/quote]

I loved Chris Mullin, the player--as obviously, we all did--and support CM, our head coach.
But nothing and nobody is more important than the University, its legacy educating first generation college kids, and its basketball tradition.
In that regard, I worry about the hiccup Chris leaving--great season or not--will have on our current recruiting efforts for 2019 and even 2020, amid HC and Staff changes.
I'm rooting for success and coaching continuity.
They often go together.
 
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[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=299138]The Wichita St. coach? Yeah, why leave there for SJU right?
He can rock NYC and MSG. With the Knicks and Rangers sucking, He'll own nyc and msg.
Plus the endorsements you get rocking nyc. Broadway, the brightlights.[/quote]

I highly doubt Gregg Marshall would ever come here. He's a star in Wichita, KS, and he's the only game in town.

He also has crazy amenities at his disposal from what I recalled.... a private jet for recruiting, memberships at a couple golf clubs, courtesy vehicles, availability for a handful of personal flights throughout the continental US yearly, etc. He's also well-compensated.

The only way we may can even persuade him is if we start off with about six-million per year, and that ain't gonna happen.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=299152][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=299138]The Wichita St. coach? Yeah, why leave there for SJU right?
He can rock NYC and MSG. With the Knicks and Rangers sucking, He'll own nyc and msg.
Plus the endorsements you get rocking nyc. Broadway, the brightlights.[/quote]

I highly doubt Gregg Marshall would ever come here. He's a star in Wichita, KS, and he's the only game in town.

He also has crazy amenities at his disposal from what I recalled.... a private jet for recruiting, memberships at a couple golf clubs, courtesy vehicles, availability for a handful of personal flights throughout the continental US yearly, etc. He's also well-compensated.

The only way we may can even persuade him is if we start off with about six-million per year, and that ain't gonna happen.[/quote]

$6 million/year? No way. That's more than even Danny Hurley gets!
Lol.
Joking aside, I'd be surprised if Mullin leaves following the season most of us expect and hope materializes.
That changes, if expectations do not prove out.
 
I guess it's inevitable that a thread about our excellent AD hire would, like every other thread, turn into one about our coach. Looking forward to the first game in 8 days - can't get here soon enough. Despite the lamentations regarding our scrimmage loss, I am looking forward to a great year that I expect will, at the very least, be as much fun as Coach Lavin's first year.
 
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Aaannnddddd just like that, a disappointing Chris interview turns into a "Next Coach?" thread.

Just wanted to add (as someone who roots against the AAC), the Shockers might have a few bad seasons. They are losing basically everyone from their FF caliber team from last year (who underperformed and were a first round exit), and their incoming class is ranked only #62 nationally. 7 three stars and nobody else.

Typically I would see Marshall as a lock for WSU, but unless he can work some serious magic with mediocre talent again I could see him looking to leave. His main rival McDermott has massively out recruited him the last several years.
 
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[quote="Adam" post=299158]Aaannnddddd just like that, a disappointing Chris interview turns into a "Next Coach?" thread.

Just wanted to add (as someone who roots against the AAC), the Shockers might have a few bad seasons. They are losing basically everyone from their FF caliber team from last year (who underperformed and were a first round exit), and their incoming class is ranked only #62 nationally. 7 three stars and nobody else.

Typically I would see Marshall as a lock for WSU, but unless he can work some serious magic with mediocre talent again I could see him looking to leave. His main rival McDermott has massively out recruited him the last several years.[/quote]

Marshall may (or may not) look to leave, but if there's a vacancy here, then it'll take a whole lot of dough to land him at St. John's. That's all I was saying.

Personally, I just don't see him as a serious option if that scenario was to play out.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=299161]

Marshall may (or may not) look to leave, but if there's a vacancy here, then it'll take a whole lot of dough to land him at St. John's. That's all I was saying.[/quote]

He makes at least $3.5 million there. It would take serious dough to land him, and even then, he's not leaving for just anyone -- I'm sure he's thinking Duke, UNC. Given Duke connection, my first guess would have been Cragg trying to lure Hurley back east if a new change were to happen, but his contract language makes it tough to get out early.

I have a couple guys in mind who would work, but there's obviously going to be some "We're about to have our best season in years, so why are we talking about a new coach?" posts soon. So it'll hold until we see what happens.

But I'm definitely now in the camp that tension may sadly already exist between a new AD and a coach who seemingly doesn't like answering to people. It's happened other places before.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=299161][quote="Adam" post=299158]Aaannnddddd just like that, a disappointing Chris interview turns into a "Next Coach?" thread.

Just wanted to add (as someone who roots against the AAC), the Shockers might have a few bad seasons. They are losing basically everyone from their FF caliber team from last year (who underperformed and were a first round exit), and their incoming class is ranked only #62 nationally. 7 three stars and nobody else.

Typically I would see Marshall as a lock for WSU, but unless he can work some serious magic with mediocre talent again I could see him looking to leave. His main rival McDermott has massively out recruited him the last several years.[/quote]

Marshall may (or may not) look to leave, but if there's a vacancy here, then it'll take a whole lot of dough to land him at St. John's. That's all I was saying.

Personally, I just don't see him as a serious option if that scenario was to play out.[/quote]

I don't disagree. Just wanted to knock the AAC there, since I see WSU's/Marshall's value decreasing quite a bit over the next few years.

That said, you're right about his contract. He won't leave anytime soon and SJU won't outbid WSU.

Extremely unlikely, and 0% chance it'd happen after this year anyways.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=299163][quote="MJDinkins" post=299161]

Marshall may (or may not) look to leave, but if there's a vacancy here, then it'll take a whole lot of dough to land him at St. John's. That's all I was saying.[/quote]

He makes at least $3.5 million there. It would take serious dough to land him, and even then, he's not leaving for just anyone -- I'm sure he's thinking Duke, UNC. Given Duke connection, my first guess would have been Cragg trying to lure Hurley back east if a new change were to happen, but his contract language makes it tough to get out early.

I have a couple guys in mind who would work, but there's obviously going to be some "We're about to have our best season in years, so why are we talking about a new coach?" posts soon. So it'll hold until we see what happens.

But I'm definitely now in the camp that tension may sadly already exist between a new AD and a coach who seemingly doesn't like answering to people. It's happened other places before.[/quote]

I was already told Mullin didn't particularly care to answer to anyone. I'm guessing something recently occured between Cragg and Mullin. You can buzz me via PM, LJSA, if you don't want to be tarred and feathered.
 
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Well, at this point Cragg has a 100% approval rating from fans/media/etc while Mullin (the coach) is... somewhere below that. So Mullin's belief that he doesn't need to answer to him exists exclusively in his own mind. Very dangerous mentality to have.
 
Even before Cragg I figured there was a good chance he leaves regardless after this year. You can make an extremely logical case. Great year and he says "there, I helped SJ get back to relevance for a year...someone else take it now I'm off to Cali". Bad year and tons of more negative press and he says, "I'm done...can't take the losing, the know it all AD, another rebuild, and I'd rather go home to Cali with my family and relax".

Not saying I have any inside scoop on Marshall, but you'd be surprised what some big time donors are willing to do if they seriously back a good hire. We also have much more tradition here than at WSU and we play in a much better conference than them. Whoever comes here after Mullin, I just want to see nonstop hunger, nonstop effort, living and breathing SJ. I want to see national recruiting because screw the NYC area they're not loyal save for maybe 1 top 50 kid every 5 years or more. We may not be world beaters, but we could definitely lure some solid coaches. I have total faith that Cragg will actually make a great pick. As Cragg came in, the mom and pop mantra and the incompetent period was ended. Now we can operate like a real major program.
 
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