Mullin Update

[fun]

you are the archive specials. Go back and look.

You seem to misunderstand the burden of proof in an argument. It's not you say something and therefore it's true unless I prove it isn't. That would be a moronic way to go about things. Also, you're not the boss of me, so you go back and look. Should not be hard to find all those posters who criticized Lavin in the wake of the program's biggest win in half a dozen years.

So what's my motive

You're shilling for a snake oil salesman, your motives are obvious.

 

[mjmaherjr]

you are the archive specials. Go back and look.

You seem to misunderstand the burden of proof in an argument. It's not you say something and therefore it's true unless I prove it isn't. That would be a moronic way to go about things. Also, you're not the boss of me, so you go back and look. Should not be hard to find all those posters who criticized Lavin in the wake of the program's biggest win in half a dozen years.

So what's my motive

You're shilling for a snake oil salesman, your motives are obvious.

I'm shilling for who ? Lavin ? Are you freaking nuts ? I wasn't defending him at the end with every breath. Wearesju just said on this thread he remembers me criticizing Lavin. I was pissed too but I didn't hate him like others and was ok if he got extension too for recruiting. Ask anyone who sits with me in sect 114 who posts here that during games I'd be complaining too. I just provided you the proof I was ecstatic when Mullin got hired.

Case closed

 

[simplyred]

I remember Lavin getting ripped for being up in a suite after his post-op prostate ruptured. Some felt that if he could make it to MSG then he should be able to coach.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I remember Lavin getting ripped for being up in a suite after his post-op prostate ruptured. Some felt that if he could make it to MSG then he should be able to coach.

that happened too

 

[we are sju]

You really can't judge any coach based on this roster. Rip away next year but this year is pointless. Outside of Felix Balamou discovering he is a Teen Wolf no one could do any better with this roster.

 

[rawdognyc]

This isn't rocket science. Everyone with half a brain should know that Mullin is learning on the job. When Coach K first started coaching I'm sure there was someone who taught him. Who drew up plays, who helped him understand the intricacies of coaching. Mullin has all eyes on him because his first coaching job is a high major program that he once starred at. Under a microscope. Especially nowadays when cameras and microphones are allowed in the huddles.

You don't wake up one day and perform brain surgery. You learn, practice and perfect it. No different with coaching. No difference with actually any type of job.

 

[redmannorth]

I've been surprised that this team doesn't play harder.

Spot on. They accept defeat too easily, as if they know they are supposed to get blown out and just accept it. That folks, comes from the staff, the entire staff. This better not continue to be the case.

Haven't seen that at all this year. They play hard

if they played that hard how does every team we play against get so many open and uncontested shots ? we arent quick but we aren't that slow where you can't have a hand in the face even once in a while

Balamou who plays hard but not smart and everyone's favorite 30% are the worst at closing out on shooters. Don't want to pile on what with him being asked to play out of position and all but in addition to not making shots he is your biggest culprit. Don't know what you want Mullin to do about it other than reduce his time which he has recently.

take a look at the gtown game again. actually virtually every game. it's not just those 2.

You know MJ you are already more critical of Chris Mullin than you were of Norm. You finally came around at the end but still. You also bailed on Lavin quicker than Norm.
What gives?

I've learned from my mistakes. But to be fair I gave up on Norm a probably 2 years before he finally got canned and that last year of his I went ballistic and was ready to quit being a st johns fan and was hoping we would lose to be finally rid of him

Lavin I didn't give up on him till the last year and even then it's not like I dislike him or anything and was on the fence about him coming back although I was openly critical at times that last year or 2 but I liked him as a person and wouldn't have gone crazy if he came back

The thing is now I don't hate Mullin and really want him to do well but back when you guys were st johns fans when he played I wasn't a st johns fan yet so I never worshipped Mullin like any st johns fan would. I was a houston cougar fan and saw what happened with Clyde Drexler when he went back to coach. In the pro's I loved Mullin. Thought he was awesome. One of my favorite players.

But he definitely is getting a pass on stuff that people didn't give lavin a pass for because people were Mullin sju fans.

I really do want him to do well and before the season started I thought perhaps blindly that he was a virtual can't miss coach and there were a lot of people here on the boards saying after he got hired how having an x and o assistant didn't matter because we had chris mullin and who the heck is going to teach chris mullin anything and chris mullin will be the one running the sideline and designing the plays and doing everything else and developing the players.

Well I don't see that. What I see is the same thing people were killing Lavin for actually I saw Lavin doing more on the sidelines

What I'm hoping for is what Logen had mentioned about recruiting because sustained recruiting is what can be the biggest difference between Mullin and Lavin.

So to the point I'm in no way shape or form am I Anti Mullin or rooting against him but there is no way he is a can't miss coach like some think because I don't know how anyone could think that about anyone in the midst of the worst sju season ever when you haven't even lucked into 1 conference win

I've given him plenty of credit recruiting and I honestly don't think he and the staff can have done a better job recruiting. I give them an A+ in that respect

Everything I've written I think I've been pretty fair ( and to the people who think I wasn't fair with my knocking him for sitting on the scorers table then if I was wrong why did the refs warn him and kick him off the scorers table in the xavier game ) and it's not like I'm not giving him a pass on this year but there are things that people can be concerned about which might go away completely next year.

I've seen it once ( clyde drexler ) I am rooting for Mullin to succeed but my Norm days of thinking it will always work out for the best those first 3 or 4 years are long gone

Sorry mj but there was no comparison between Mullin and Drexler and there will be none as coaches but I hear your concerns. The one thing I can say with certainty having followed the team closely since 1981 is that the 2015 and 2016 recruiting classes are the best we have had since the 1983 and 1984 classes. In fact they could turn out better. What we have never had is 3 good recruiting classes in a row. If Coach Mullin can get a good class in 2017 he will have made recruiting history at SJU. And if that will be his strength as a coach. , as Logen alluded to ,I have no problem with that as the players are far more important that x and o s.
I guess to put this topic aside and in perspective we should have a thread based on the worst situation a coach ever inherited. Coach Mullins situation is about the worst I can recollect. Truth be told once Marcus was declared Ineligible I did not believe we would win a big east game.

how is there no comparison with drexler ? they were both top 50 players in nba history and they both went back to coach their alma mater

I actually think Mullin as a player was a smarter player than Drexler and did more with less in regards to their own physical ability but I think them going back to coach their college teams that you can't get a closer comparison

All I'm saying is that if a nba top 50 player of all time Drexler can go back to his school and fail then that shows nothing is a lock for anyone as a coach no matter what they achieved in the nba

Sorry Mike when I posted it was about 6pm, dark outside, I was walking home from work and it was -20. I was on my iPhone and was freezing and didn't double check what I had written. I left out the words " as players".
The phrase should have read Sorry MJ there was no comparison between Mullin and Drexler as players and there will be none as coaches. Meaning Drexler was about the greatest athlete I ever saw while Mullin may have been the most cerebral hard working player I ever saw.
My bad for not checking my post , but it was/ is damn cold.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I've been surprised that this team doesn't play harder.

Spot on. They accept defeat too easily, as if they know they are supposed to get blown out and just accept it. That folks, comes from the staff, the entire staff. This better not continue to be the case.

Haven't seen that at all this year. They play hard

if they played that hard how does every team we play against get so many open and uncontested shots ? we arent quick but we aren't that slow where you can't have a hand in the face even once in a while

Balamou who plays hard but not smart and everyone's favorite 30% are the worst at closing out on shooters. Don't want to pile on what with him being asked to play out of position and all but in addition to not making shots he is your biggest culprit. Don't know what you want Mullin to do about it other than reduce his time which he has recently.

take a look at the gtown game again. actually virtually every game. it's not just those 2.

You know MJ you are already more critical of Chris Mullin than you were of Norm. You finally came around at the end but still. You also bailed on Lavin quicker than Norm.
What gives?

I've learned from my mistakes. But to be fair I gave up on Norm a probably 2 years before he finally got canned and that last year of his I went ballistic and was ready to quit being a st johns fan and was hoping we would lose to be finally rid of him

Lavin I didn't give up on him till the last year and even then it's not like I dislike him or anything and was on the fence about him coming back although I was openly critical at times that last year or 2 but I liked him as a person and wouldn't have gone crazy if he came back

The thing is now I don't hate Mullin and really want him to do well but back when you guys were st johns fans when he played I wasn't a st johns fan yet so I never worshipped Mullin like any st johns fan would. I was a houston cougar fan and saw what happened with Clyde Drexler when he went back to coach. In the pro's I loved Mullin. Thought he was awesome. One of my favorite players.

But he definitely is getting a pass on stuff that people didn't give lavin a pass for because people were Mullin sju fans.

I really do want him to do well and before the season started I thought perhaps blindly that he was a virtual can't miss coach and there were a lot of people here on the boards saying after he got hired how having an x and o assistant didn't matter because we had chris mullin and who the heck is going to teach chris mullin anything and chris mullin will be the one running the sideline and designing the plays and doing everything else and developing the players.

Well I don't see that. What I see is the same thing people were killing Lavin for actually I saw Lavin doing more on the sidelines

What I'm hoping for is what Logen had mentioned about recruiting because sustained recruiting is what can be the biggest difference between Mullin and Lavin.

So to the point I'm in no way shape or form am I Anti Mullin or rooting against him but there is no way he is a can't miss coach like some think because I don't know how anyone could think that about anyone in the midst of the worst sju season ever when you haven't even lucked into 1 conference win

I've given him plenty of credit recruiting and I honestly don't think he and the staff can have done a better job recruiting. I give them an A+ in that respect

Everything I've written I think I've been pretty fair ( and to the people who think I wasn't fair with my knocking him for sitting on the scorers table then if I was wrong why did the refs warn him and kick him off the scorers table in the xavier game ) and it's not like I'm not giving him a pass on this year but there are things that people can be concerned about which might go away completely next year.

I've seen it once ( clyde drexler ) I am rooting for Mullin to succeed but my Norm days of thinking it will always work out for the best those first 3 or 4 years are long gone

Sorry mj but there was no comparison between Mullin and Drexler and there will be none as coaches but I hear your concerns. The one thing I can say with certainty having followed the team closely since 1981 is that the 2015 and 2016 recruiting classes are the best we have had since the 1983 and 1984 classes. In fact they could turn out better. What we have never had is 3 good recruiting classes in a row. If Coach Mullin can get a good class in 2017 he will have made recruiting history at SJU. And if that will be his strength as a coach. , as Logen alluded to ,I have no problem with that as the players are far more important that x and o s.
I guess to put this topic aside and in perspective we should have a thread based on the worst situation a coach ever inherited. Coach Mullins situation is about the worst I can recollect. Truth be told once Marcus was declared Ineligible I did not believe we would win a big east game.

how is there no comparison with drexler ? they were both top 50 players in nba history and they both went back to coach their alma mater

I actually think Mullin as a player was a smarter player than Drexler and did more with less in regards to their own physical ability but I think them going back to coach their college teams that you can't get a closer comparison

All I'm saying is that if a nba top 50 player of all time Drexler can go back to his school and fail then that shows nothing is a lock for anyone as a coach no matter what they achieved in the nba

Sorry Mike when I posted it was about 6pm, dark outside, I was walking home from work and it was -20. I was on my iPhone and was freezing and didn't double check what I had written. I left out the words " as players".
The phrase should have read Sorry MJ there was no comparison between Mullin and Drexler as players and there will be none as coaches. Meaning Drexler was about the greatest athlete I ever saw while Mullin may have been the most cerebral hard working player I ever saw.
My bad for not checking my post , but it was/ is damn cold.

that's cool. I agree with you. Both amazing but totally different type of ability. Clyde more physically gifted Mullin much smarter and getting more use out of what he had than what anyone else could have gotten

 

[mjmaherjr]

you are the archive specials. Go back and look.

You seem to misunderstand the burden of proof in an argument. It's not you say something and therefore it's true unless I prove it isn't.

Ok counselor. My proof. Lawmanfan. You were wrong in your previous post where you said and I quote "When Lavin was coach for 10 months he got a pass for everything. Everyone was still giddy from the hire" because lawman was one of a couple who were against him from day 1 and Lawman and I used to go back and forth over stuff with Lavin when Lawman would knock him and I would defend him. I even texted lawman after Lavin got fired admitting to Lawman that he was right and I was wrong

Oh and 2nd piece of Evidence or Poster of Evidence. Doc Butler. He practically got run off the board in the beginning for being critical of Lavin and I'm pretty sure he called him out after the Fordham game and in hindsight he was right
too

Oh and The Burrell thing that you don't think happened after the pitt game ? wrong again

http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=6140132

Burrells quote which Lavin most definitely got knocked for that was taken out of context by a couple of people " And there was this from another one of Lavin's seniors, another in an endless parade of them, Justin Burrell: "He doesn't really coach. I don't know what he does."

Oh and another since I can't find redmen.com archives going back that far, Further proof that Lavin didn't get a pass on everything his first 10 months. Thread after the fordham game on the jungle

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=5042.0

Oh and this one too since you claim the burden of proof resides with me even though you accuse me without proof

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=5201.0

Defense rests my case

 

[OLV72]

you are the archive specials. Go back and look.

You seem to misunderstand the burden of proof in an argument. It's not you say something and therefore it's true unless I prove it isn't. That would be a moronic way to go about things. Also, you're not the boss of me, so you go back and look. Should not be hard to find all those posters who criticized Lavin in the wake of the program's biggest win in half a dozen years.

So what's my motive

You're shilling for a snake oil salesman, your motives are obvious.

I'm shilling for who ? Lavin ? Are you freaking nuts ? I wasn't defending him at the end with every breath. Wearesju just said on this thread he remembers me criticizing Lavin. I was pissed too but I didn't hate him like others and was ok if he got extension too for recruiting. Ask anyone who sits with me in sect 114 who posts here that during games I'd be complaining too. I just provided you the proof I was ecstatic when Mullin got hired.

Case closed

Everyone in 114 can confirm this and can also confirm that Ralph cursed this year's team on December 13th with five minutes to left in the game against Cuse. There is hope that the curse will be lifted on February 17th.

 

[mjmaherjr]

you are the archive specials. Go back and look.

You seem to misunderstand the burden of proof in an argument. It's not you say something and therefore it's true unless I prove it isn't. That would be a moronic way to go about things. Also, you're not the boss of me, so you go back and look. Should not be hard to find all those posters who criticized Lavin in the wake of the program's biggest win in half a dozen years.

So what's my motive

You're shilling for a snake oil salesman, your motives are obvious.

I'm shilling for who ? Lavin ? Are you freaking nuts ? I wasn't defending him at the end with every breath. Wearesju just said on this thread he remembers me criticizing Lavin. I was pissed too but I didn't hate him like others and was ok if he got extension too for recruiting. Ask anyone who sits with me in sect 114 who posts here that during games I'd be complaining too. I just provided you the proof I was ecstatic when Mullin got hired.

Case closed

Everyone in 114 can confirm this and can also confirm that Ralph cursed this year's team on December 13th with five minutes to left in the game against Cuse. There is hope that the curse will be lifted on February 17th.

that Ralph Cuse curse was one of those moments that will go down in history. Where you were when jfk got shot and where were you the last time we won a game. lol

 

[STJ11Redmen]

you are the archive specials. Go back and look.

You seem to misunderstand the burden of proof in an argument. It's not you say something and therefore it's true unless I prove it isn't. That would be a moronic way to go about things. Also, you're not the boss of me, so you go back and look. Should not be hard to find all those posters who criticized Lavin in the wake of the program's biggest win in half a dozen years.

So what's my motive

You're shilling for a snake oil salesman, your motives are obvious.

I'm shilling for who ? Lavin ? Are you freaking nuts ? I wasn't defending him at the end with every breath. Wearesju just said on this thread he remembers me criticizing Lavin. I was pissed too but I didn't hate him like others and was ok if he got extension too for recruiting. Ask anyone who sits with me in sect 114 who posts here that during games I'd be complaining too. I just provided you the proof I was ecstatic when Mullin got hired.

Case closed

Everyone in 114 can confirm this and can also confirm that Ralph cursed this year's team on December 13th with five minutes to left in the game against Cuse. There is hope that the curse will be lifted on February 17th.

that Ralph Cuse curse was one of those moments that will go down in history. Where you were when jfk got shot and where were you the last time we won a game. lol

If I knew that would be our last win of the season I probably wouldn't have gone to that Jets game.

 

[mjmaherjr]

you are the archive specials. Go back and look.

You seem to misunderstand the burden of proof in an argument. It's not you say something and therefore it's true unless I prove it isn't. That would be a moronic way to go about things. Also, you're not the boss of me, so you go back and look. Should not be hard to find all those posters who criticized Lavin in the wake of the program's biggest win in half a dozen years.

So what's my motive

You're shilling for a snake oil salesman, your motives are obvious.

I'm shilling for who ? Lavin ? Are you freaking nuts ? I wasn't defending him at the end with every breath. Wearesju just said on this thread he remembers me criticizing Lavin. I was pissed too but I didn't hate him like others and was ok if he got extension too for recruiting. Ask anyone who sits with me in sect 114 who posts here that during games I'd be complaining too. I just provided you the proof I was ecstatic when Mullin got hired.

Case closed

Everyone in 114 can confirm this and can also confirm that Ralph cursed this year's team on December 13th with five minutes to left in the game against Cuse. There is hope that the curse will be lifted on February 17th.

that Ralph Cuse curse was one of those moments that will go down in history. Where you were when jfk got shot and where were you the last time we won a game. lol

If I knew that would be our last win of the season I probably wouldn't have gone to that Jets game.

that's what happens when you feel the bucknasty wrath

 

[Chris7]

I've been surprised that this team doesn't play harder.

Spot on. They accept defeat too easily, as if they know they are supposed to get blown out and just accept it. That folks, comes from the staff, the entire staff. This better not continue to be the case.

Haven't seen that at all this year. They play hard

oh please lets get one thing staright this team has battled with injuries,and people missing time cause of the ncaa *YAKWE AND LOVETT* plus most of the players and coaches are freshman in college basketball ...they have no experince ...they are playing hurt and blind out there some of you need to cut this team some slack and if you think you can do better go play for them

I agree and I really like the point about some of our coaches being freshmen too. Put yourself in Mullins shoes, he's a coach for the first time ever, and he's in charge or looking over a roster with very inferior talent for the first time ever. When he was with the Kings they were bad but at least they had guys like boogie Cousins.

We don't. We are so young and over matched, I honestly don't know what some expect. Next year is going to be interesting. Let's see what we look like with some top talent in there. In my opinion 4 of our 5 starters next year aren't even playing ror us right now, so let's get some of the talent here and see what happens.

Head coach is a pretty expensive "freshman" taking in 2 million plus, and the guys sitting next to him getting their fair share of cash too for "freshmen" not to mention their Kentucky, Pitt, Iowa St resumes. (The one true "freshman" is the one actually contributing and actively engaging in in game coaching, ironically). If you can say with a straight face that whichever 5 guys on the court have played honest "hard" defense throughout these last few weeks, well then I don't know what to tell you. It's often lazy and lackadaisical, and that can be fixed with some adjustments and coaching.

All for CM succeeding and making the big bucks like a big named coach should see, but even if your team lacks talent, at the least get them to play hard for 40 minutes.

 

[OLV72]

you are the archive specials. Go back and look.

You seem to misunderstand the burden of proof in an argument. It's not you say something and therefore it's true unless I prove it isn't.

Ok counselor. My proof. Lawmanfan. You were wrong in your previous post where you said and I quote "When Lavin was coach for 10 months he got a pass for everything. Everyone was still giddy from the hire" because lawman was one of a couple who were against him from day 1 and Lawman and I used to go back and forth over stuff with Lavin when Lawman would knock him and I would defend him. I even texted lawman after Lavin got fired admitting to Lawman that he was right and I was wrong

Oh and 2nd piece of Evidence or Poster of Evidence. Doc Butler. He practically got run off the board in the beginning for being critical of Lavin and I'm pretty sure he called him out after the Fordham game and in hindsight he was right too

If this does not turn around I am voting for Doc Butler as our next hire.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I've been surprised that this team doesn't play harder.

Spot on. They accept defeat too easily, as if they know they are supposed to get blown out and just accept it. That folks, comes from the staff, the entire staff. This better not continue to be the case.

Haven't seen that at all this year. They play hard

oh please lets get one thing staright this team has battled with injuries,and people missing time cause of the ncaa *YAKWE AND LOVETT* plus most of the players and coaches are freshman in college basketball ...they have no experince ...they are playing hurt and blind out there some of you need to cut this team some slack and if you think you can do better go play for them

I agree and I really like the point about some of our coaches being freshmen too. Put yourself in Mullins shoes, he's a coach for the first time ever, and he's in charge or looking over a roster with very inferior talent for the first time ever. When he was with the Kings they were bad but at least they had guys like boogie Cousins.

We don't. We are so young and over matched, I honestly don't know what some expect. Next year is going to be interesting. Let's see what we look like with some top talent in there. In my opinion 4 of our 5 starters next year aren't even playing ror us right now, so let's get some of the talent here and see what happens.

Head coach is a pretty expensive "freshman" taking in 2 million plus, and the guys sitting next to him getting their fair share of cash too for "freshmen" not to mention their Kentucky, Pitt, Iowa St resumes. (The one true "freshman" is the one actually contributing and actively engaging in in game coaching, ironically). If you can say with a straight face that whichever 5 guys on the court have played honest "hard" defense throughout these last few weeks, well then I don't know what to tell you. It's often lazy and lackadaisical, and that can be fixed with some adjustments and coaching.

All for CM succeeding and making the big bucks like a big named coach should see, but even if your team lacks talent, at the least get them to play hard for 40 minutes.

Too be fair knowing Matt A was the point guy in Freudenbrg and I think basher and Sima I think he is doing exactly what he was brought here to do so I think he is doing great so far delivering the recruits to Mullin to close

 

[L J S A]

I remember Lavin getting ripped for being up in a suite after his post-op prostate ruptured. Some felt that if he could make it to MSG then he should be able to coach.

Pretty sure that was Bobre. He was going on about Lavin being scared or mentally ill. He also was angry at Lavin for missing work after his dad's funeral. His main argument was that when his own dad died he didn't miss work. What a guy.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I remember Lavin getting ripped for being up in a suite after his post-op prostate ruptured. Some felt that if he could make it to MSG then he should be able to coach.

Pretty sure that was Bobre. He was going on about Lavin being scared or mentally ill. He also was angry at Lavin for missing work after his dad's funeral. His main argument was that when his own dad died he didn't miss work. What a guy.

maybe Bobre owns a funeral parlor

 

[L J S A]

I remember Lavin getting ripped for being up in a suite after his post-op prostate ruptured. Some felt that if he could make it to MSG then he should be able to coach.

Pretty sure that was Bobre. He was going on about Lavin being scared or mentally ill. He also was angry at Lavin for missing work after his dad's funeral. His main argument was that when his own dad died he didn't miss work. What a guy.

maybe Bobre owns a funeral parlor

I was going with "completely devoid of compassion," but I guess working in a funeral parlor would work as well.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

The game is basically simple, and once it's broken down, there really isn't much room for innovative thinking;.

Our last coach tried to be innovative. He had the epiphany that the game should be played outside in with 4 2-guards and a power forward. And where did it get him: back on TV with all the other failed coaches.

Happy to see him gone but thats the approach that got us to the ncaa's. And then back on TV with all the other guys.

He didn't make the NCAA tournament because of his approach, he made it despite his approach. If his approach were as clever as he thought it was he'd have won something with something other than a roster full of seniors.

I dont want to debate the merit of Steve Lavin's coaching ability but a good coach I think he is not. Do you think that playing the 4 out 1 in approach was the right move for that team? And yes, I know it was his fault for having the team that he had and recruiting the kids that he recruited.