Mullin Update

[mjmaherjr]

I've been surprised that this team doesn't play harder.

Spot on. They accept defeat too easily, as if they know they are supposed to get blown out and just accept it. That folks, comes from the staff, the entire staff. This better not continue to be the case.

Haven't seen that at all this year. They play hard

if they played that hard how does every team we play against get so many open and uncontested shots ? we arent quick but we aren't that slow where you can't have a hand in the face even once in a while

Balamou who plays hard but not smart and everyone's favorite 30% are the worst at closing out on shooters. Don't want to pile on what with him being asked to play out of position and all but in addition to not making shots he is your biggest culprit. Don't know what you want Mullin to do about it other than reduce his time which he has recently.

take a look at the gtown game again. actually virtually every game. it's not just those 2.

You know MJ you are already more critical of Chris Mullin than you were of Norm. You finally came around at the end but still. You also bailed on Lavin quicker than Norm.
What gives?

I've learned from my mistakes. But to be fair I gave up on Norm a probably 2 years before he finally got canned and that last year of his I went ballistic and was ready to quit being a st johns fan and was hoping we would lose to be finally rid of him

Lavin I didn't give up on him till the last year and even then it's not like I dislike him or anything and was on the fence about him coming back although I was openly critical at times that last year or 2 but I liked him as a person and wouldn't have gone crazy if he came back

The thing is now I don't hate Mullin and really want him to do well but back when you guys were st johns fans when he played I wasn't a st johns fan yet so I never worshipped Mullin like any st johns fan would. I was a houston cougar fan and saw what happened with Clyde Drexler when he went back to coach. In the pro's I loved Mullin. Thought he was awesome. One of my favorite players.

But he definitely is getting a pass on stuff that people didn't give lavin a pass for because people were Mullin sju fans.

I really do want him to do well and before the season started I thought perhaps blindly that he was a virtual can't miss coach and there were a lot of people here on the boards saying after he got hired how having an x and o assistant didn't matter because we had chris mullin and who the heck is going to teach chris mullin anything and chris mullin will be the one running the sideline and designing the plays and doing everything else and developing the players.

Well I don't see that. What I see is the same thing people were killing Lavin for actually I saw Lavin doing more on the sidelines

What I'm hoping for is what Logen had mentioned about recruiting because sustained recruiting is what can be the biggest difference between Mullin and Lavin.

So to the point I'm in no way shape or form am I Anti Mullin or rooting against him but there is no way he is a can't miss coach like some think because I don't know how anyone could think that about anyone in the midst of the worst sju season ever when you haven't even lucked into 1 conference win

I've given him plenty of credit recruiting and I honestly don't think he and the staff can have done a better job recruiting. I give them an A+ in that respect

Everything I've written I think I've been pretty fair ( and to the people who think I wasn't fair with my knocking him for sitting on the scorers table then if I was wrong why did the refs warn him and kick him off the scorers table in the xavier game ) and it's not like I'm not giving him a pass on this year but there are things that people can be concerned about which might go away completely next year.

I've seen it once ( clyde drexler ) I am rooting for Mullin to succeed but my Norm days of thinking it will always work out for the best those first 3 or 4 years are long gone

Sorry mj but there was no comparison between Mullin and Drexler and there will be none as coaches but I hear your concerns. The one thing I can say with certainty having followed the team closely since 1981 is that the 2015 and 2016 recruiting classes are the best we have had since the 1983 and 1984 classes. In fact they could turn out better. What we have never had is 3 good recruiting classes in a row. If Coach Mullin can get a good class in 2017 he will have made recruiting history at SJU. And if that will be his strength as a coach. , as Logen alluded to ,I have no problem with that as the players are far more important that x and o s.
I guess to put this topic aside and in perspective we should have a thread based on the worst situation a coach ever inherited. Coach Mullins situation is about the worst I can recollect. Truth be told once Marcus was declared Ineligible I did not believe we would win a big east game.

how is there no comparison with drexler ? they were both top 50 players in nba history and they both went back to coach their alma mater

I actually think Mullin as a player was a smarter player than Drexler and did more with less in regards to their own physical ability but I think them going back to coach their college teams that you can't get a closer comparison

All I'm saying is that if a nba top 50 player of all time Drexler can go back to his school and fail then that shows nothing is a lock for anyone as a coach no matter what they achieved in the nba

 

[ras]

One thing Mullin has going for him is he wasn't an athletic freak. He got his success the old fashioned way . He earned it, by working his arse off and being a student of the game . He was a cerebral player and does have a vast knowledge of the game and a tremendous work ethic.

 

[mjmaherjr]

One thing Mullin has going for him is he wasn't an athletic freak. He got his success the old fashioned way . He earned it, by working his arse off and being a student of the game . He was a cerebral player and does have a vast knowledge of the game and a tremendous work ethic.

totally agree with that

 

[paultzman]

In rational terms, Mullin has to prove himself as a coach like all his peers. Give him a pass this in this season of "bizarro world", but let's see what he does over the next three of four seasons. That should tell us whether he really wants to do this job, has the ability & can get the program to a consistently competitive level. It is only reasonable to give him a chance, but also quite fair to have expectations of his performance, legend or not. Go Johnnies! (& Chris!)

 

[usguard]

I've been surprised that this team doesn't play harder.

Spot on. They accept defeat too easily, as if they know they are supposed to get blown out and just accept it. That folks, comes from the staff, the entire staff. This better not continue to be the case.

Haven't seen that at all this year. They play hard

if they played that hard how does every team we play against get so many open and uncontested shots ? we arent quick but we aren't that slow where you can't have a hand in the face even once in a while

Easy answer we are just not that good

 

[monte]

In rational terms, Mullin has to prove himself as a coach like all his peers. Give him a pass this in this season of "bizarro world", but let's see what he does over the next three of four seasons. That should tell us whether he really wants to do this job, has the ability & can get the program to a consistently competitive level. It is only reasonable to give him a chance, but also quite fair to have expectations of his performance, legend or not. Go Johnnies! (& Chris!)

Agree Paultz. None of us know if Chris is going to be the next John Wooden or the next Norm Roberts. But there are 3 things I'm pretty sure of when it comes to Chris. First if he isn't successful it won't be for lack of a 100% effort. Second if he's not getting it done you won't hear any of the lame excuses of our past 3 coaches. And third no one will be tougher on Chris than Chris. If he's not right for the job he'll know before anyone else and will graciously step down without having to be fired.
Now lets all give him our full support and stop judging him until the point that he can go to battle with a full compliment of Big East players.

 

[paultzman]

In rational terms, Mullin has to prove himself as a coach like all his peers. Give him a pass this in this season of "bizarro world", but let's see what he does over the next three of four seasons. That should tell us whether he really wants to do this job, has the ability & can get the program to a consistently competitive level. It is only reasonable to give him a chance, but also quite fair to have expectations of his performance, legend or not. Go Johnnies! (& Chris!)

Agree Paultz. None of us know if Chris is going to be the next John Wooden or the next Norm Roberts. But there are 3 things I'm pretty sure of when it comes to Chris. First if he isn't successful it won't be for lack of a 100% effort. Second if he's not getting it done you won't hear any of the lame excuses of our past 3 coaches. And third no one will be tougher on Chris than Chris. If he's not right for the job he'll know before anyone else and will graciously step down without having to be fired.
Now lets all give him our full support and stop judging him until the point that he can go to battle with a full compliment of Big East players.

Check your PMs

 

[Section3]

I am going to say all of the following knowing I am going to get blasted, but let me preface it by saying I still love Mullin, want him to be great and think he can be.

I would just like to see some more in game coaching. What do I mean by that? It's simple, I want Mullin to be the 1 voice the players hear in time outs. Be up and engaged during the game talking to the players on and off the court. When the other team is on the foul line call your guards that are not lining the key over and impart some of that knowledge you have with a "hey, they are doing this to you, so do this and we should get a lay up or an open 3". Right now, none of this happens regularly and it concerns me.

Think I am overreacting? Answer this, when was the last time you saw an assistant run a time out huddle for Bill Self, Bobby Knight, Roy Williams, Coach K, Jay Wright, Shaka Smart, etc? It doesn't happen! He needs to be The Coach! The Voice! Hopefully that happens sooner than later, but by the beginning of next season at the latest, otherwise he is just a figurehead, a tool used for recruiting, not the coach.

Just my opinion...blast away.

It is odd that he defers to St. Jean and Slice to handle substitutions and in game coaching...its so discernible that it almost seems like he promised these guys an opportubity to "coach" as a condition to taking the job...probably off base, but I have no other plausible explanation...i have never seen this before

 

[fun]

But he definitely is getting a pass on stuff that people didn't give lavin a pass for because people were Mullin sju fans.

Can you name some of stuff Lavin wasn't given a pass on ten months into his tenure that Mullin is being given a pass on?

 

[mjmaherjr]

But he definitely is getting a pass on stuff that people didn't give lavin a pass for because people were Mullin sju fans.

Can you name some of stuff Lavin wasn't given a pass on ten months into his tenure that Mullin is being given a pass on?

I never said 10 months but to get to your point of 10 months some people were knocking him for Dunlap using the board for plays in a lot of the huddles and people knocked him for sitting talking to keady during games and some people even knocked him at some point after the pitt win because of comments that Burrell made about not really coaching during the huddle that Lavin had basically just gave them a pep talk and he didn't really coach them in the huddle or something like that

And Bobre was killing him for Sean Evans sitting on the bench but that was just Bobre being Bobre

Go back and look at people trashing after the fordham loss ( I probably said something after that loss too )

 

[usguard]

I am going to say all of the following knowing I am going to get blasted, but let me preface it by saying I still love Mullin, want him to be great and think he can be.

I would just like to see some more in game coaching. What do I mean by that? It's simple, I want Mullin to be the 1 voice the players hear in time outs. Be up and engaged during the game talking to the players on and off the court. When the other team is on the foul line call your guards that are not lining the key over and impart some of that knowledge you have with a "hey, they are doing this to you, so do this and we should get a lay up or an open 3". Right now, none of this happens regularly and it concerns me.

Think I am overreacting? Answer this, when was the last time you saw an assistant run a time out huddle for Bill Self, Bobby Knight, Roy Williams, Coach K, Jay Wright, Shaka Smart, etc? It doesn't happen! He needs to be The Coach! The Voice! Hopefully that happens sooner than later, but by the beginning of next season at the latest, otherwise he is just a figurehead, a tool used for recruiting, not the coach.

Just my opinion...blast away.

It is odd that he defers to St. Jean and Slice to handle substitutions and in game coaching...its so discernible that it almost seems like he promised these guys an opportubity to "coach" as a condition to taking the job...probably off base, but I have no other plausible explanation...i have never seen this before

So because you have never heard of this approach it is bad??

 

[Section3]

I am going to say all of the following knowing I am going to get blasted, but let me preface it by saying I still love Mullin, want him to be great and think he can be.

I would just like to see some more in game coaching. What do I mean by that? It's simple, I want Mullin to be the 1 voice the players hear in time outs. Be up and engaged during the game talking to the players on and off the court. When the other team is on the foul line call your guards that are not lining the key over and impart some of that knowledge you have with a "hey, they are doing this to you, so do this and we should get a lay up or an open 3". Right now, none of this happens regularly and it concerns me.

Think I am overreacting? Answer this, when was the last time you saw an assistant run a time out huddle for Bill Self, Bobby Knight, Roy Williams, Coach K, Jay Wright, Shaka Smart, etc? It doesn't happen! He needs to be The Coach! The Voice! Hopefully that happens sooner than later, but by the beginning of next season at the latest, otherwise he is just a figurehead, a tool used for recruiting, not the coach.

Just my opinion...blast away.

It is odd that he defers to St. Jean and Slice to handle substitutions and in game coaching...its so discernible that it almost seems like he promised these guys an opportubity to "coach" as a condition to taking the job...probably off base, but I have no other plausible explanation...i have never seen this before

So because you have never heard of this approach it is bad??

Read the post. I said it was odd meaning it is out of the norm -- not bad...no debating that it is out of the norm

 

[prjohnnies]

There will always be fans who knock the coach. IMO, Lavin really only started to get knocked by a fair amount on this board and the others during Year 4. And that is because we had a team that should have easily been in the tournament and perhaps won a game or two. And even then, folks like myself didn't start getting on him until well into year 5, when it became apparent that the guy whose strength was recruiting had put all of our eggs in only a few baskets against incredibly stiff competition. And the Jordan situation years 4 and 5 didn't help by any means, as folks got sick of the constant drama but realized we had no choice but to accept it.

But he definitely is getting a pass on stuff that people didn't give lavin a pass for because people were Mullin sju fans.

Can you name some of stuff Lavin wasn't given a pass on ten months into his tenure that Mullin is being given a pass on?

I never said 10 months but to get to your point of 10 months some people were knocking him for Dunlap using the board for plays in a lot of the huddles and people knocked him for sitting talking to keady during games and some people even knocked him at some point after the pitt win because of comments that Burrell made about not really coaching during the huddle that Lavin had basically just gave them a pep talk and he didn't really coach them in the huddle or something like that

And Bobre was killing him for Sean Evans sitting on the bench but that was just Bobre being Bobre

Go back and look at people trashing after the fordham loss

 

[Knight]

BE Coaches ranked at start of the season
http://athlonsports.com/college-basketball/ranking-big-east-basketball-coaches-2015-16

 

[fun]

how is there no comparison with drexler ? they were both top 50 players in nba history and they both went back to coach their alma mater

Mullin worked in the NBA for 10 years after his playing career, at the highest levels. Whereas Drexler went directly to college coaching from the NBA. The similarities between them could not be more superficial. Why compare Mullin to Drexler rather than to Fred Hoiberg, who like Mullin was a BB prodigy. Never mind answering, that's a rhetorical question. Your motives are obvious.

 

[mjmaherjr]

how is there no comparison with drexler ? they were both top 50 players in nba history and they both went back to coach their alma mater

Mullin worked in the NBA for 10 years after his playing career, at the highest levels. Whereas Drexler went directly to college coaching from the NBA. The similarities between them could not be more superficial. Why compare Mullin to Drexler rather than to Fred Hoiberg, who like Mullin was a BB prodigy. Never mind answering, that's a rhetorical question. Your motives are obvious.

my motives ? haaa. I have no motives. I wasn't even against the Mullin hiring. You know nothing about me other than I like lobster rolls,beer and porn

Drexler top 50 nba player. Just because Mullin worked in the nba front office doesn't give him any more experience coaching as drexler when you play in the league that long. Any top 50 player knows a lot about basketball and I already said I think Mullin was smarter than drexler and I was a drexler fan but didn't see him as a coach while he was playing

 

[fun]

I never said 10 months

No, I said it, because you said Mullin was being given a pass for stuff Lavin was not given a pass for. But Mullin has only been coach for 10 months. When Lavin was coach for 10 months he got a pass for everything. Everyone was still giddy from the hire. Even I was giddy. Oddly you do not seem to having the honeymoon with Mullin ten months after he was hired that you're still having with Lavin 10 months after he was fired.

ut to get to your point of 10 months some people were knocking him for Dunlap using the board for plays in a lot of the huddles and people knocked him for sitting talking to keady during games and some people even knocked him at some point after the pitt win because of comments that Burrell made about not really coaching during the huddle that Lavin had basically just gave them a pep talk and he didn't really coach them in the huddle or something like that

BS. I do not remember a single post from anyone knocking Lavin for relying on Dunlap's expertise. I remember universal acclaim for Dunlap's hiring and for the job he did on the sidelines and for Lavin's wisdom in relying on him and I also remember the disquiet that followed when he left. As for the Pitt game, I do not recall a single post criticizing Lavin after SJU beat #4 Pitt at the Garden on a last second shot on national television, that being the second ranked team they won that week. I find the idea preposterous and will once again call BS.

And Bobre was killing him for Sean Evans sitting on the bench but that was just Bobre being Bobre

Bobre is your key witness is he.

The persecution rests.

Go back and look at people trashing after the fordham loss ( I probably said something after that loss too )

I don't have to go back and look. No one would have after one loss expressed doubts about Lavin's ability to be a head coach. That doesn't even make any sense.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I never said 10 months

No, I said it, because you said Mullin was being given a pass for stuff Lavin was not given a pass for. But Mullin has only been coach for 10 months. When Lavin was coach for 10 months he got a pass for everything. Everyone was still giddy from the hire. Even I was giddy. Oddly you do not seem to having the honeymoon with Mullin ten months after he was hired that you're still having with Lavin 10 months after he was fired.

ut to get to your point of 10 months some people were knocking him for Dunlap using the board for plays in a lot of the huddles and people knocked him for sitting talking to keady during games and some people even knocked him at some point after the pitt win because of comments that Burrell made about not really coaching during the huddle that Lavin had basically just gave them a pep talk and he didn't really coach them in the huddle or something like that

BS. I do not remember a single post from anyone knocking Lavin for relying on Dunlap's expertise. I remember universal acclaim for Dunlap's hiring and for the job he did on the sidelines and for Lavin's wisdom in relying on him and I also remember the disquiet that followed when he left. As for the Pitt game, I do not recall a single post criticizing Lavin after SJU beat #4 Pitt at the Garden on a last second shot on national television, that being the second ranked team they won that week. I find the idea preposterous and will once again call BS.

And Bobre was killing him for Sean Evans sitting on the bench but that was just Bobre being Bobre

Bobre is your key witness is he.

The persecution rests.

Go back and look at people trashing after the fordham loss ( I probably said something after that loss too )

I don't have to go back and look. No one would have after one loss expressed doubts about Lavin's ability to be a head coach. That doesn't even make any sense.

you are the archive specials. Go back and look. It's not bs and I'm 100% right and the Burrell thing made the newspaper so go back and look up the quote because 100% people talked about it here

So what's my motive. ? Go back and look at when Mullin got hired and look at my posts. Heck on one of the Mullin getting hired threads I was so excited I even forgot about Drexler at the time and someone else had brought up his name when I was saying how many people get an opportunity to have a top 50 nba player as coach and then someone reminded me of Drexler and I said on that thread that I thought Mullin could make a better coach because of what he got out of the game mentally. Doesn't mean I'd be right but I thought it but in hindsight it doesn't mean he will be either

 

[fun]

I have no motives.

Everybody has motives.

You know nothing about me

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=you+don%27t+know+me!

 

[mjmaherjr]

I have no motives.

Everybody has motives.

You know nothing about me

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=you+don%27t+know+me!

Here are my motives

http://redmen.com/forum/4-redmentalk/43925-mullin-accepts.html?start=36


And if anything Austour should be given a lot more credit than me

Austour "Let's just hope Chris is more Mayor than Glide. It is certainly an impactful hiring but all those who are proclaiming the glory days (that barely were) are back again sound not unlike the coachspeak fluff and bluster of STJs recently deposed coach. I am on board but not entirely assured."

Me

"True but I think it's a big selling point and I consider them 2 totally different type players with Mullin who got every ounce of talent out of himself 10 times over. Clyde was great but I never thought of him as a potential coach the way I see Mullin and Houston Cougars are what got me into college basketball as a fan"