Mike Vacc on Chris

[quote="Ray Morgan" post=318343][quote="we are sju" post=318341][quote="Monte" post=318329]There’s only one kid in the starting 5 that I never ever find myself muttering “no! no! no!” when touches the ball, and that’s LJ. Love that kid’s game[/quote]

I like him too but that three was not a good shot and "no, no, no" would have been justified.[/quote]

If you can remember the number of bad shots Figgy has taken, that's a good thing. It would take Jerry Lucas or someone who took his memory course to remember the bad shots taken by others on the team.[/quote]

Well it was last game so still fresh. Clear 2nd best player this year.
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=318338][quote="Boo Harvey" post=318335][quote="Monte" post=318329]There’s only one kid in the starting 5 that I never ever find myself muttering “no! no! no!” when touches the ball, and that’s LJ. Love that kid’s game[/quote]

I like LJ a lot, but I'd rather have the ball in Ponds hands over anybody on the team and it's not even close. As Paultz alluded to, LJ is an old school heady player. That said, I don't think he has the athleticism or the skills to be a team's primary scorer. He is a terrific third option. Will be interesting to see how he fares next year when he may be required to carry on more of the scoring load.[/quote]

Ponds is so creative and skilled that he can take nothing and turn it into something. That's not L.J.s mindset, or skill set. That's why he leads the team in FG% and ranks high in the league. No roster with Ponds, Figgy and Heron should be tied for last in the conference. Just makes no sense.[/quote]

Those three are the most talented players on the team. Clark is one dimensional and when his outside shot isn't falling he doesn't have the mindset to play closer to the basket. Simon is a good all around player who does many things well but nothing outstanding. When any of those have a bad game it becomes easier to see why we are a bottom five team because we failed to recruit a supporting group of players on the bench. That bench should never have included Trimble and Earlington. Keita was a gamble because he didn't show much at SC. The same track record follows next year's transfers/recruits. We are just not recruiting proven talent but talent that needs intensive development. If we were known for development players would want to come here instead of leaving annually.
 
[quote="Boo Harvey" post=318335][quote="Monte" post=318329]There’s only one kid in the starting 5 that I never ever find myself muttering “no! no! no!” when touches the ball, and that’s LJ. Love that kid’s game[/quote]

I like LJ a lot, but I'd rather have the ball in Ponds hands over anybody on the team and it's not even close. As Paultz alluded to, LJ is an old school heady player. That said, I don't think he has the athleticism or the skills to be a team's primary scorer. He is a terrific third option. Will be interesting to see how he fares next year when he may be required to carry on more of the scoring load.[/quote]

I never said that I wouldn’t want the ball in Ponds’ hands over LJ. That wasn’t my point and I wasn’t comparing the 2. LJ is the only one that seems to hustle every minute on the floor and the only one who rarely makes a bad decision. That was my point.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=318341][quote="Monte" post=318329]There’s only one kid in the starting 5 that I never ever find myself muttering “no! no! no!” when touches the ball, and that’s LJ. Love that kid’s game[/quote]

I like him too but that three was not a good shot and "no, no, no" would have been justified.[/quote]

Didn’t love the shot, didn’t hate the shot. But he didn’t telegraph the shot(like so many of our guys do when they go one on one) so I didn’t have the chance to say “no, no, no” even if I had wanted to. I was at the game and didn’t see the whole court, so I dont know if he had someone open that he should have passed to.
 
I went back and looked at the LJ play...honestly I was ok with him taking that then and I still am now. G'Town had 2 guys in position to defend the post and even if he drew a foul he's like a 57% FT shooter or something poor. No guarantee he'd even make the FT's. If it was someone like Ponds then obviously draw the foul because your FT's are likely to go in. LJ has earned more than enough capital with us where we can afford stuff like that. He was going for the big shot and that's why I love the kid...it's almost impossible to get mad at a player like him. You know he leaves everything on the court. He's a 43% 3 PT shooter so I liked our chances.

In terms of Williams, of course he's the least of our problems, but doesn't take away the fact that 1 for 9 from 3 with almost all of them wide open is concerning. Any decent D1 recruit should be making at least like 37% on wide open 3's. Maybe even 40%. Hasn't won or lost us anything, just a note. Still love his game and think he's the perfect 4 year player we need badly. Can be a monster as a senior and I love how he attacks the rim.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=318355]I went back and looked at the LJ play...honestly I was ok with him taking that then and I still am now. G'Town had 2 guys in position to defend the post and even if he drew a foul he's like a 57% FT shooter or something poor. No guarantee he'd even make the FT's. If it was someone like Ponds then obviously draw the foul because your FT's are likely to go in. LJ has earned more than enough capital with us where we can afford stuff like that. He was going for the big shot and that's why I love the kid...it's almost impossible to get mad at a player like him. You know he leaves everything on the court. He's a 43% 3 PT shooter so I liked our chances.

In terms of Williams, of course he's the least of our problems, but doesn't take away the fact that 1 for 9 from 3 with almost all of them wide open is concerning. Any decent D1 recruit should be making at least like 37% on wide open 3's. Maybe even 40%. Hasn't won or lost us anything, just a note. Still love his game and think he's the perfect 4 year player we need badly. Can be a monster as a senior and I love how he attacks the rim.[/quote]

Williams reminds me of another Williams who played here, Kevin Williams. Similar body types and energy. Both are explosive athletes. I was a fly on the wall at practices back in the day, and Kevin would just tear everybody up. No one could stay with him. Then Looie made him come off the bench behind a guard that couldn't stay with him on his best day.

As for his slow start from 3, McClung was throwing up ofers from 3 early in the season. We all saw what he did to us. Playing time, if you can play, can build confidence and slows the game down later on. Williams needs floor time, which could help us this year and position him for a very productive sophomore season.
 
Ray Morgan wrote: Williams reminds me of another Williams who played here, Kevin Williams. Similar body types and energy. Both are explosive athletes. I was a fly on the wall at practices back in the day, and Kevin would just tear everybody up. No one could stay with him. Then Looie made him come off the bench behind a guard that couldn't stay with him on his best day.

As for his slow start from 3, McClung was throwing up ofers from 3 early in the season. We all saw what he did to us. Playing time, if you can play, can build confidence and slows the game down later on. Williams needs floor time, which could help us this year and position him for a very productive sophomore season.

Exactly Ray. The point is 1-9 from 3 for Williams is absolutely not a cause for concern. It's a small sample size from a freshman getting limited playing time who is not known as an outside shooter yet. And regarding MZ's point that any decent recruit should be able to come in and hit 37%-40% from three as a frosh, that is simply not true. McClung is shooting 30% from three, Duke a very highly rated recruit with PC is shooting .32% and Anthony Nelson a frosh guard with Hall 30% . The kids who shoot 37-40% as freshman are the pure shooters which Williams is not.
However, he already is a good finisher (12-14 inside three) so maybe if he plays more we will miss less "bunnies" and his outside shot will start to fall.
 
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Some random morning thoughts:

1. Yes we are in last place in the big east, but we’re a good run away from 3rd place. It’s not like we’re mired in last place, so maybe we can stop with the hysterics

2. Yes we’re out on the tourney picture at the moment, but again a good run and we’ll be back in the picture. Not saying it’ll happen, but it’s certainly feasible. We’re not as good as we looked early in the year, and we’re not as bad as we’ve looked recently.

3. Like many others, I have serious doubts that Chris will ever turn out to be the coach that many of us hoped he would be, but can’t we at least wait till the end of the regular season to call his hire a failed experiment? Don’t we owe that to one of our own and the greatest player in the history of our program?

4. I don’t find criticism of Chris offensive, but I do find “the next head coach” thread highly offense and this point in the season. Again, complain all you want, but let the season play out before calling for Chris’s ouster.

That’s all folks
 
[quote="Monte" post=318366]Some random morning thoughts:

1. Yes we are in last place in the big east, but we’re a good run away from 3rd place. It’s not like we’re mired in last place, so maybe we can stop with the hysterics

2. Yes we’re out on the tourney picture at the moment, but again a good run and we’ll be back in the picture. Not saying it’ll happen, but it’s certainly feasible. We’re not as good as we looked early in the year, and we’re not as bad as we’ve looked recently.

3. Like many others, I have serious doubts that Chris will ever turn out to be the coach that many of us hoped he would be, but can’t we at least wait till the end of the regular season to call his hire a failed experiment? Don’t we owe that to one of our own and the greatest player in the history of our program?

4. I don’t find criticism of Chris offensive, but I do find “the next head coach” thread highly offense and this point in the season. Again, complain all you want, but let the season play out before calling for Chris’s ouster.

That’s all folks[/quote]

Re: #2. We're very much in the tournament picture. Every bracketologist has us in the tournament, as of right now.

Re: #4. I want Mullin to succeeded too. However, if a change is made after the year, I'd like for the powers that be to have some idea of where they would like to go with things, and have some names ready. We've been burned before by firing coaches, without having anyone reasonable in mind, to replace them.
 
[quote="Monte" post=318366]Some random morning thoughts:

1. Yes we are in last place in the big east, but we’re a good run away from 3rd place. It’s not like we’re mired in last place, so maybe we can stop with the hysterics

2. Yes we’re out on the tourney picture at the moment, but again a good run and we’ll be back in the picture. Not saying it’ll happen, but it’s certainly feasible. We’re not as good as we looked early in the year, and we’re not as bad as we’ve looked recently.

3. Like many others, I have serious doubts that Chris will ever turn out to be the coach that many of us hoped he would be, but can’t we at least wait till the end of the regular season to call his hire a failed experiment? Don’t we owe that to one of our own and the greatest player in the history of our program?

4. I don’t find criticism of Chris offensive, but I do find “the next head coach” thread highly offense and this point in the season. Again, complain all you want, but let the season play out before calling for Chris’s ouster.

That’s all folks[/quote] on the money as usual
 
I get the panic and valid concerns about Mullin. That makes sense.

That said, Greg Williams is by far our most promising underclassman. Can we please not run him out of town with petulant impatience? Bringing up that he is 1-for-9 from three, after an infantile sample, is invalid and unproductive.

Thank you.......got that off my chest and now I feel better.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=318373]We are one game out of third place. Stop the insanity.[/quote]

It wouldn't be redmen.com without insanity. Everyone would think the site got hacked.
 
[quote="Monte" post=318366]Some random morning thoughts:

1. Yes we are in last place in the big east, but we’re a good run away from 3rd place. It’s not like we’re mired in last place, so maybe we can stop with the hysterics

2. Yes we’re out on the tourney picture at the moment, but again a good run and we’ll be back in the picture. Not saying it’ll happen, but it’s certainly feasible. We’re not as good as we looked early in the year, and we’re not as bad as we’ve looked recently.

3. Like many others, I have serious doubts that Chris will ever turn out to be the coach that many of us hoped he would be, but can’t we at least wait till the end of the regular season to call his hire a failed experiment? Don’t we owe that to one of our own and the greatest player in the history of our program?

4. I don’t find criticism of Chris offensive, but I do find “the next head coach” thread highly offense and this point in the season. Again, complain all you want, but let the season play out before calling for Chris’s ouster.

That’s all folks[/quote]

Well said Monte and agree. In order for that run to happen something has to change. The beat is out on this team. You're probably going to be able to get to 75 on them, and you hold them to 74 or under by sending a second body at Ponds every time he puts it on the deck because he will more often than not make the right play and pass out of it, with emphasis on sending Simon's man and turning him into a jumpshooter, and you live with other guys trying to beat you especially if it's someone besides LJ. Play them even in the first and odds are better than not you'll go plus in the second half for a W. I said it last week they are the easiest scout in the conference right now.

Was hoping that 8 days off, after having lost 3 of 4, and probably our most uneven game of the season to that point (Butler) would be time for that change. Instead, outside of a few (very effective, resulting in turnovers) mix and matches with some zone pressure and trapping, we played an even more disjointed game than we did against Butler.

Add to that some of the more systemic things we were doing well earlier in the season - like spreading teams out and then carving them with crisp ball movement, taking away a player like McClung - were are also absent.

Not sure what to make of all that and our ability to achieve change as a result. Certainly want to be optimistic, but our next two conference games are against quality coaches who we ran off the floor in CA, now in their building, I don't like our chances showing the same look a second time. The ability to play teams a second time so critical in the home and home format, and we are a resounding 0-1 as we move towards back half of schedule.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=318373]We are one game out of third place. Stop the insanity.[/quote]

Yes we are 1 game out of 3rd...but we have gone from #24 in the nation to being barely in the tourney if not on the bubble on the wrong side. If we had 3 weak teams coming up, I don't think people would be panicking. But look who the next 3 opponents are...plus they are all away. Hopefully we have some magic in the tank and can somehow go 2-1 shocking Duke and beating Creighton or Marquette, but the odds of that happening are obviously very low. They smell blood in the water with us having no ability to stop talented bigs. I can see Zion going for 34 and 14 or something insane. If we aren't hitting lots of 3's it will get ugly fast.
 
To me, the biggest indictment to Coach Mullin' performance this season lies in Justin Simon's offensive game. I love the kid's effort, but you can see how little regard Ponds and Heron have for his game with their body language. He lacks feel, touch around the basket and worse, seems lost during large stretches of time. He also looks like an 80's Center on the free throw line. Coach has had three seasons to work with Justin, as physically gifted a multi position guard as we've had here, and the kid looks as unpolished as ever. You can't really teach Figgy's instinct for the ball or Pond's creativity around the basket, but you can teach Justin a more consistent role within the offense...you know...if we had an offense.
 
That's the thing Indy...which player can you point to and say "that's a product of Mullin"? I don't think any IMO. Ponds was going to be special anywhere and was special right away. Clark already had Izzo coach him up. Heron was already a good player. LJ was great from day 1. We rely on guys who have great natural talent. We don't see guys like Keita, Simon, etc. being coached up. I still don't understand how some of our players cannot make FT's consistently. This is something that is automatic in D2 and D3 and almost all D1 teams. I watched Femi on DePaul and he his 10/11. That's a BIG! Simon is shooting 58%. Sorry I just don't get it. It's called a charity stripe for a reason.
 
[quote="indyredmen97" post=318382]To me, the biggest indictment to Coach Mullin' performance this season lies in Justin Simon's offensive game. I love the kid's effort, but you can see how little regard Ponds and Heron have for his game with their body language. He lacks feel, touch around the basket and worse, seems lost during large stretches of time. He also looks like an 80's Center on the free throw line. Coach has had three seasons to work with Justin, as physically gifted a multi position guard as we've had here, and the kid looks as unpolished as ever. You can't really teach Figgy's instinct for the ball or Pond's creativity around the basket, but you can teach Justin a more consistent role within the offense...you know...if we had an offense.[/quote]

There is a bunch of stuff regarding Mullin you can question.But you basically just blamed him for Simon shortcomings while taking away any credit he should get for Ponds and LJ. Which is subjective at best.
In fact, one could argue that Mullin was able to get more out of Clark and Simon then Izzo and Miller ever did.
 
No I think he should get credit with Pond's conditioning and growing pass acumen, all of which he needs for his personal future. I also think he's helped free Clark around the 3 point line where he stretches big men out to guard him, and his shot and shot selection has really developed. My point was that those three have been with Coach for 3 years now, but somehow Simon looks exactly the same. I might argue that Simon has the most upside of the three yet seems as lost in the offense, and in his own shot, as he did upon his arrival. I don't blame Simon for the losing streak, but I'm going to be fair and say that as far as the naked eye, he's not a better offensive player, and that's our staff and HC's expertise. He doesn't get credit or blame for Heron or LJ because its not a long enough sample with this staff to warrant a fair opinion, but for those three above it certainly is a sample of work.
 
[quote="indyredmen97" post=318382]To me, the biggest indictment to Coach Mullin' performance this season lies in Justin Simon's offensive game. I love the kid's effort, but you can see how little regard Ponds and Heron have for his game with their body language. He lacks feel, touch around the basket and worse, seems lost during large stretches of time. He also looks like an 80's Center on the free throw line. Coach has had three seasons to work with Justin, as physically gifted a multi position guard as we've had here, and the kid looks as unpolished as ever. You can't really teach Figgy's instinct for the ball or Pond's creativity around the basket, but you can teach Justin a more consistent role within the offense...you know...if we had an offense.[/quote]. Indy, I respectfully disagree on your Simon assessment . Where to begin? Simon was recruited by Sean Miller at Arizona . He transferred afte 1 Season , likely because he was told he wasn’t going to be getting much PT or , wasn’t going to be in their lineup for much of his 4 years . Why didn’t he get PT ? Because Millier saw he couldn’t shoot and had no outside game as was a tweener size wise . Miller was a great Shooter at Pitt , if you remember ? I am sure he felt there was nothing to be done with improving Simon’s shooting . Mullin and Richmond are 2 of the best ever shooters in NBA history , they have tried mightily to improve Justin’s shooting from 2 feet as well as free throw shooting . Results have shown , it’s not going to happen . Sorry , Justin has done a lot good on the Court but, he has a critical weakness in his game that we can’t afford with this Team . He is being dared to shoot openly and still can’t hit a good percentage . He does get to the Rim well but, again misses way too many bunnies , which we can’t afford to not score . I realize he is not a Playmaker either . So , can’t blame Mullin for Simon’s Game . Lots of kids can’t play the Violin either .
 
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