MICHIGAN (@MSG), Mon., Nov. 13, 6:30p, FS-1

last thing i'll say about this game (but it's a trend in the 4 games we've played).
i think the rotations are off. i mentioned this before, but coach does wholesale changes. coach isn't mixing first and second team. and each game when the second team is in, we lose momentum.

we can't afford zuby, drissa, sim, conway, out there for long stretches....

i know rotations will tighten, but i hope we get more surgical with subbing, real quick.
 
BrookJersey Redmen said:
somewhat agree with Gene, after about the 12 minute mark, I turned to WeathermanNYC and said this game is going the wrong way, and we let lead get to 6-8 points, then made a mini-run to close the gap, but MI was pulling away at that point and got the 10 point lead and it could have been even more.

The second half started even worse and never got better, no runs from us.

The final score was not as lopsided as the game actually was.
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Not only that BrookJersey but haven’t seen enough of playing well for 17 minutes of 40 minute game over the last 20+ years. That’s kind of been our MO in big games. That’s why Pitino is here. Because, that has to end.
 
logen said:
Dingle has played 42 minutes in 2 games, has taken 21 shots, a shot every 2 minutes. He is shooting 9-21, not great, certainly not horrible; 3-9 from 3, again, not great, not horrible.
But in those 42 minutes, he has zero, as in 0, nada, assists. He has 1 rebound. So far he doesn’t appear to move with purpose off the ball and plays very little defense. He looks to me like a player whose muscle memory is to play with the ball or wait until he gets it to do his thing. Not necessarily his fault, maybe that’s the way he has always been utilized, I don’t know.
BTW, between Dingle and Alleyne, they played 40 minutes total against Michigan, were 7-23 from the floor, 4-12 from 3, with not an assist and 1 rebound between them. Not winning stats to say the least.
Ledlum and Jenkins, who according to you played “hero ball” played 49 minutes and took 19 shots between them. Neither played well, no question, but my point is, the only person on this team IMO, who is not getting enough shots is Soriano, who took only 8 and I believe at least 3 of those were off offensive rebounds.
The bottom line is, SJU, played and coached a terrible game but they lost the game on the defensive end, while not playing very cohesively on offense either. They let Burnett and McDaniel each dominate a half with bad, no help, no rotation defense and that was that. You move on and hopefully improve.
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I think we are on the same page with him. He has no motor as I’ve posted multiple times. He had a nice pass into Soriano that resulted in a dunk so I’m not sure how he didn’t get an assist there. His passing is actually pretty good unlike his defense and rebounding.

The usage issue is ball-handling and good looks. Jenkins DOMINATES the ball to a level I’ve never seen here. He starts charging into the lane almost immediate and then either throws some last second pass while panicking, turns it over, or pulls up and shoots. If Ledlum touches it, it’s over.

By the time Dingle touches the ball he is afraid to give it up and he forces his shots. The ball-handling should be a 60-40 split with Jenkins and Dingle.

Dingle should be allowed to initiate pick and roll with Soriano and Ledlum. He should be able to give up the ball with the reasonable expectation that he will touch it again that possession or the next…not 4-5 possessions later.

And we have to manufacture him and Alleyne looks. They are too good of shooters to not get them multiple looks.
 
Marillac2 said:
I think we are on the same page with him. He has no motor as I’ve posted multiple times. He had a nice pass into Soriano that resulted in a dunk so I’m not sure how he didn’t get an assist there. His passing is actually pretty good unlike his defense and rebounding.

The usage issue is ball-handling and good looks. Jenkins DOMINATES the ball to a level I’ve never seen here. He starts charging into the lane almost immediate and then either throws some last second pass while panicking, turns it over, or pulls up and shoots. If Ledlum touches it, it’s over.

By the time Dingle touches the ball he is afraid to give it up and he forces his shots. The ball-handling should be a 60-40 split with Jenkins and Dingle.

Dingle should be allowed to initiate pick and roll with Soriano and Ledlum. He should be able to give up the ball with the reasonable expectation that he will touch it again that possession or the next…not 4-5 possessions later.

And we have to manufacture him and Alleyne looks. They are too good of shooters to not get them multiple looks.
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There were multiple times at the end of the first half where I was thinking "this is the moment Dingle needs to initiate the offense and 'take over'". I think Pitino's comment about being "shocked" by the offense was mostly about Jenkins -- I think he trusted him to be less topsy-turvy.

I honestly think Ledlum should stand in the corner on offense for an open look and crash the boards, but he should never ever initiate the offense or drive to the basket with more than one guy around him.
 
dk423 said:
There were multiple times at the end of the first half where I was thinking "this is the moment Dingle needs to initiate the offense and 'take over'". I think Pitino's comment about being "shocked" by the offense was mostly about Jenkins -- I think he trusted him to be less topsy-turvy.

I honestly think Ledlum should stand in the corner on offense for an open look and crash the boards, but he should never ever initiate the offense or drive to the basket with more than one guy around him.
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Completely agree. I’d actually put them on shot limits. 4 shots per half and a green light for more of those 4 are good. If those two picked only the best 4 opportunities per half we would be very difficult to contain.

Dingle is going to let up 15-20 points on defense so he’s going to have to generate at least that much offense to make him worthwhile.

I really liked the pick and roll he played at Penn and he got their center some really good lobs going to the basket.
 
Marillac2 said:
Completely agree. I’d actually put them on shot limits. 4 shots per half and a green light for more of those 4 are good. If those two picked only the best 4 opportunities per half we would be very difficult to contain.

Dingle is going to let up 15-20 points on defense so he’s going to have to generate at least that much offense to make him worthwhile.

I really liked the pick and roll he played at Penn and he got their center some really good lobs going to the basket.
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I'm hoping Dingle's lack of motor on defense (it was frankly disspiriting watching him guard Barnett off the ball) had to do with not being totally in basketball shape & not being totally acclimated with his teammates from not practicing. He really looked low energy and kind of lost out there.
 
Marillac2 said:
I think we are on the same page with him. He has no motor as I’ve posted multiple times. He had a nice pass into Soriano that resulted in a dunk so I’m not sure how he didn’t get an assist there. His passing is actually pretty good unlike his defense and rebounding.

The usage issue is ball-handling and good looks. Jenkins DOMINATES the ball to a level I’ve never seen here. He starts charging into the lane almost immediate and then either throws some last second pass while panicking, turns it over, or pulls up and shoots. If Ledlum touches it, it’s over.

By the time Dingle touches the ball he is afraid to give it up and he forces his shots. The ball-handling should be a 60-40 split with Jenkins and Dingle.

Dingle should be allowed to initiate pick and roll with Soriano and Ledlum. He should be able to give up the ball with the reasonable expectation that he will touch it again that possession or the next…not 4-5 possessions later.

And we have to manufacture him and Alleyne looks. They are too good of shooters to not get them multiple looks.
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Sorry, we just disagree, I hardly feel Dingle’s uneven play is anyone)dis fault but his own. Like I said we just disagree
 
logen said:
Sorry, we just disagree, I hardly feel Dingle’s uneven play is anyone)dis fault but his own. Like I said we just disagree
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You don’t think he would make better choices if he was seeing the ball more? He was going 4-5 possessions at times without even touching it. Ledlum took 4 in a row on his own at one point and dribbled two of them off his leg and was blocked on another. That’s frustrating as teammate.

On a personal level, you’ve never played a pickup game and watched a guy jack jumpers 6-7 times in a row and then you took a shot next just because you knew you wouldn’t get it back if you passed it?

It would be like Maher bringing back 6 beers to 114 and then chugging them all in front of them.
 
why is the 2nd game of the season taking up 51 pages. RELAX BREATHE even UCONN DUKE VILLANOVA EVERYONE loses a game and we didnt get blown out by 50 lol
 
Marillac2 said:
You don’t think he would make better choices if he was seeing the ball more? He was going 4-5 possessions at times without even touching it. Ledlum took 4 in a row on his own at one point and dribbled two of them off his leg and was blocked on another. That’s frustrating as teammate.

On a personal level, you’ve never played a pickup game and watched a guy jack jumpers 6-7 times in a row and then you took a shot next just because you knew you wouldn’t get it back if you passed it?

It would be like Maher bringing back 6 beers to 114 and then chugging them all in front of them.
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Well, you like to speak in hyperbole I assume, no one jacked up 6 or 7 jumpers in a row and no, I don’t have any idea if he would make better decisions but I am not that impressed SO FAR with Dingle but I am more than willing to wait for a better sample size. I would respectfully suggest you do the same with players who you’ve chosen to define their faults 2 games into the season. Like I said, we just disagree, no big deal.
 
The season has just started. Lets see how things progress before we bury some of these players that were selected by our HOF coach.
 
njfan said:
why is the 2nd game of the season taking up 51 pages. RELAX BREATHE even UCONN DUKE VILLANOVA EVERYONE loses a game and we didnt get blown out by 50 lol
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I hear you nj fan, one of the things that surprised me about how we got beat is that Pitino and staff had a week to prepare for this game. Michigan even played Friday night. It’s just surprising how bad we got beat and how we didn’t have a plan for the speed of their guards with week to prepare.
 
redmen4life said:
last thing i'll say about this game (but it's a trend in the 4 games we've played).
i think the rotations are off. i mentioned this before, but coach does wholesale changes. coach isn't mixing first and second team. and each game when the second team is in, we lose momentum.

we can't afford zuby, drissa, sim, conway, out there for long stretches....

i know rotations will tighten, but i hope we get more surgical with subbing, real quick.
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They were out there for so long because the first team showed so little effort in the beginning of the 2h. Honestly it was shocking to me, as Pitino talked about having high character guys
 
njfan said:
why is the 2nd game of the season taking up 51 pages. RELAX BREATHE even UCONN DUKE VILLANOVA EVERYONE loses a game and we didnt get blown out by 50 lol
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I still say we finish ahead of Nova, and Neptune will be gone after this year. Bookmark this. He isn't a good enough coach
 
Mean Gene said:
I hear you nj fan, one of the things that surprised me about how we got beat is that Pitino and staff had a week to prepare for this game. Michigan even played Friday night. It’s just surprising how bad we got beat and how we didn’t have a plan for the speed of their guards with week to prepare.
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An entire season remains, Gene. Are you aware of the year Villanova beat UNC (on Kris Jenkins' last second shot) to win the National Championship? Remember when Villanova annihilated Oklahoma in the Final Four two days prior? Guess what? In early December of that same season, Oklahoma blasted Villanova by 23 points.

I'm not saying our season is gonna go the way Villanova or Oklahoma from that year. I'm saying things can happen early in the year that may be baffling (heck, sometimes those sort of games can occur later in the year as well).

There's plenty of time to worry, but my opinion is you may wanna relax.
 
redmen4life said:
last thing i'll say about this game (but it's a trend in the 4 games we've played).
i think the rotations are off. i mentioned this before, but coach does wholesale changes. coach isn't mixing first and second team. and each game when the second team is in, we lose momentum.

we can't afford zuby, drissa, sim, conway, out there for long stretches....

i know rotations will tighten, but i hope we get more surgical with subbing, real quick.
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I think the only reason for this is because he is trying to figure out combinations and rotations with all these new kids he's never coached before.
 
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