Mets 2024 Season

Are we complaining about Mendoza, or complaining about modern day pitchers not being able to go on short-rest/have high pitch counts?

If its the former, I am totally unconvinced. Are we really pining for Adam Ottavino or Danny Young to come in? Maton and Stanek were unavailable, do you expect Mendoza to tell the pitchers/medical staff that they are actually available?

From Friday, September 27th to Sunday, October 6th, the Mets played 9 very high stress games (not counting the 2nd double header game) in 10 days. I still don't quite understand what a better baseball acumen would look like when given that schedule + our team's relievers.

If we're complaining about the latter, I don't know what to tell you. It's the reality of the game today and there's been plenty of writers who have researched & spoke about it. The splits on Garrett and Butto pitching on days rest vs. back-to-back days are completely night and day.
 
dk423 said:
Are we complaining about Mendoza, or complaining about modern day pitchers not being able to go on short-rest/have high pitch counts?

If its the former, I am totally unconvinced. Are we really pining for Adam Ottavino or Danny Young to come in? Maton and Stanek were unavailable, do you expect Mendoza to tell the pitchers/medical staff that they are actually available?

From Friday, September 27th to Sunday, October 6th, the Mets played 9 very high stress games (not counting the 2nd double header game) in 10 days. I still don't quite understand what a better baseball acumen would look like when given that schedule + our team's relievers.

If we're complaining about the latter, I don't know what to tell you. It's the reality of the game today and there's been plenty of writers who have researched & spoke about it. The splits on Garrett and Butto pitching on days rest vs. back-to-back days are completely night and day.
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Make all the excuses you want, I consider them just that. If it is the medical staff telling the Mets what healthy pitchers can and can’t pitch things are loonier then even I thought. And Ottavino or Young couldn’t have done any worse than who they put out there; they both pitched as timid as could possibly be. And please explain to me how Diaz is the only reliever not in medical danger from overwork? As Mendoza said earlier, “this is the playoffs, time to put your big boy pants on” or words to that effect.
Mendoza or whoever is making decisions did a horrible job yesterday and it’s not the first time. And to flat out answer your question, yes, if all those other pitchers were unavailable, I would have definetly brought in Ottavino in the 7th, using the same logic you used for Maton after game 2 against the Brewers, he has been there done that.
 
Let’s be honest. There is not a single fully reliable option in the Mets bullpen. That was true throughout the season. That includes Diaz. As disappointing as yesterday was it is simply a reflection of what we saw all season. We are a 6 seed for a reason.

By the way, the Fillies bullpen in two games has proved to be just as unpredictable. They haven’t exactly been a paragon of lock down. That’s baseball. Nothing goes exactly to script.

So it’s 1-1. Two games at home. 2 games to get to the NLCS. This is the Mets. It was always going to be hard and painful.
 
sjc88 said:
Let’s be honest. There is not a single fully reliable option in the Mets bullpen. That was true throughout the season. That includes Diaz. As disappointing as yesterday was it is simply a reflection of what we saw all season. We are a 6 seed for a reason.

By the way, the Fillies bullpen in two games has proved to be just as unpredictable. They haven’t exactly been a paragon of lock down. That’s baseball. Nothing goes exactly to script.

So it’s 1-1. Two games at home. 2 games to get to the NLCS. This is the Mets. It was always going to be hard and painful.
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This is why I can't get upset about Mendoza. If we're pining for Ottavino, that means we have no good options. Losing in August Nunez really really sucks. He would've been huge.
 
logen said:
Make all the excuses you want, I consider them just that. If it is the medical staff telling the Mets what healthy pitchers can and can’t pitch things are loonier then even I thought. And Ottavino or Young couldn’t have done any worse than who they put out there; they both pitched as timid as could possibly be. And please explain to me how Diaz is the only reliever not in medical danger from overwork? As Mendoza said earlier, “this is the playoffs, time to put your big boy pants on” or words to that effect.
Mendoza or whoever is making decisions did a horrible job yesterday and it’s not the first time. And to flat out answer your question, yes, if all those other pitchers were unavailable, I would have definetly brought in Ottavino in the 7th, using the same logic you used for Maton after game 2 against the Brewers, he has been there done that.
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If Butto comes up in that spot, and he really should have, then a lot of what we're talking about isn't being discussed. It's not on Mendoza for putting in Butto and for him to not perform. He was arguably our best reliever in the regular season and should've been ready for that moment.
 
dk423 said:
This is why I can't get upset about Mendoza. If we're pining for Ottavino, that means we have no good options. Losing in August Nunez really really sucks. He would've been huge.
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Butto had a nice streak. I was falling for him. Then he fell apart in Mke and didn’t pitch much better in Filly. So…
 
dk423 said:
If Butto comes up in that spot, and he really should have, then a lot of what we're talking about isn't being discussed. It's not on Mendoza for putting in Butto and for him to not perform. He was arguably our best reliever in the regular season and should've been ready for that moment.
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LOL I literally posted my comment about Butto at the same time you did.
 
dk423 said:
If Butto comes up in that spot, and he really should have, then a lot of what we're talking about isn't being discussed. It's not on Mendoza for putting in Butto and for him to not perform. He was arguably our best reliever in the regular season and should've been ready for that moment.
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Under that line of reasoning, managers snd coaches are beyond reproach, it is only and always 100% on the player. I certainly don’t follow stats like you do but I think it has been a while since Butto has consistently pitched well. Regardless, we just disagree. The Mets had a golden opportunity yesterday and blew it. I realize it happens but that doesn’t mean I am not going to criticize the decisions made.
 
logen said:
Under that line of reasoning, managers snd coaches are beyond reproach, it is only and always 100% on the player. I certainly don’t follow stats like you do but I think it has been a while since Butto has consistently pitched well. Regardless, we just disagree. The Mets had a golden opportunity yesterday and blew it. I realize it happens but that doesn’t mean I am not going to criticize the decisions made.
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This isn't true though.

In September, Butto had a 1.50 ERA in 6 IP, only giving up one earned run on Septemer 6th. He had 10 strikeouts to only 2 balls. He also struck out the side in Game 1 against Milwaukee.

Ironically, the thing I disagreed with Mendoza was putting Butto in Game 2 against MIL since he can't pitch on short rest.
 
dk423 said:
This isn't true though.

In September, Butto had a 1.50 ERA in 6 IP, only giving up one earned run on Septemer 6th. He had 10 strikeouts to only 2 balls. He also struck out the side in Game 1 against Milwaukee.

Ironically, the thing I disagreed with Mendoza was putting Butto in Game 2 against MIL since he can't pitch on short rest.
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Hence my caveat but only 6 IP (unless that is a typo) for the month may be more telling than the ERA. That is 1.5 innings per week during a time that Mets were in an everyday playoff mode.
 
logen said:
Hence my caveat but only 6 IP (unless that is a typo) for the month may be more telling than the ERA. That is 1.5 innings per week during a time that Mets were in an everyday playoff mode.
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Main issue I have with Butto is he needs rest between games. He's been a starter his whole life, and was prepping to be one this year. I don't think his body's adjusted to the workload of a reliever, and wouldn't surprise me if they convert him back to a starter next year
 
sjc88 said:
Let’s be honest. There is not a single fully reliable option in the Mets bullpen. That was true throughout the season. That includes Diaz. As disappointing as yesterday was it is simply a reflection of what we saw all season. We are a 6 seed for a reason.

By the way, the Fillies bullpen in two games has proved to be just as unpredictable. They haven’t exactly been a paragon of lock down. That’s baseball. Nothing goes exactly to script.

So it’s 1-1. Two games at home. 2 games to get to the NLCS. This is the Mets. It was always going to be hard and painful.
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It's also true that the top of the Phillies lineup is absolutely monstrous. Harper is a top 5 player and playoff Schwarber is insane. They are so good it feels like a break when TREA TURNER is up.
 
dk423 said:
Main issue I have with Butto is he needs rest between games. He's been a starter his whole life, and was prepping to be one this year. I don't think his body's adjusted to the workload of a reliever, and wouldn't surprise me if they convert him back to a starter next year
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The rest splits on him are crazy. He's a twice a week pitcher.
 
After processing yesterday's game, I am ok with a split in Philadelphia.

Our bullpen is weak and it's amazing we have overcome it since late May. Losing Raley, Nunez and maybe even Drew Smith didn't help and the pickups at the trade deadline weren't great. No one expected us to get this far this season. It was supposed to be a bridge towards the future. I am really proud of this team and know they will fight until the end.
 
Andrew said:
I know he is bad on one days rest. Is he bad on two days rest as well? I have no idea.
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0.79 ERA on 2 days of rest (7 games)
2.67 ERA 3 days of rest (6 games)
0.00 ERA 4 days of rest (2 games)

WHIP and other metrics seems to fall in line too.

Obviously it’s more complex than the time between two games when analyzing if someone is fatigued, but it paints a pretty clear picture for him at this point of his career.
 
Speaking of bullpens, the Guardians closer Emmanuel Clase with 47 saves and a minuscule .061 ERA for the season just gave up a 3 run bomb to the Tigers in the 9th.

So it isn’t just Diaz and the Mets.
 
Marillac2 said:
0.79 ERA on 2 days of rest (7 games)
2.67 ERA 3 days of rest (6 games)
0.00 ERA 4 days of rest (2 games)

WHIP and other metrics seems to fall in line too.

Obviously it’s more complex than the time between two games when analyzing if someone is fatigued, but it paints a pretty clear picture for him at this point of his career.
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Thanks.
 
I am so pumped up to hear this citi field crowd tomorrow. especially for Lindor’s first at bat. People have been pointing out he hasn’t played a home game in awhile if you combine his injury with how long we’ve been on the road now. It’s gonna be electric. Need him to take Nola deep lead off and I will fully be convinced we are winning the World Series
 
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