Matt A

[beast of the east]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

Who pissed in your corn flakes today ?
Come on 72 unless you are best buddies with Lavin or Slice I didn't know you have an axe to grind with the staff.
Year 1 they had to field a team. Did you forget the current staff was left with a grand total of 3 bench warmers ?
Year 2 four of the players from year 1 graduated. I don't know how you didn't see the huge improvement from 1 Big East win to 7 ?
Could things have been better sure they could have but there was huge improvement from last season.
Just too bad you aren't able to give this staff a fair chance.

How many years do you give to a winning record?[/quote]

Next season for .500

 

[logen]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

Who pissed in your corn flakes today ?
Come on 72 unless you are best buddies with Lavin or Slice I didn't know you have an axe to grind with the staff.
Year 1 they had to field a team. Did you forget the current staff was left with a grand total of 3 bench warmers ?
Year 2 four of the players from year 1 graduated. I don't know how you didn't see the huge improvement from 1 Big East win to 7 ?
Could things have been better sure they could have but there was huge improvement from last season.
Just too bad you aren't able to give this staff a fair chance.

Me, you and everyone else here have no choice but to support our coaches. My issue is with Matt and his Twitter understatement. We all know that it is a gradual process since we are not Kentucky, Duke or UCLA. Three straight years of not going to post season would be cause for termination at those schools. My emphasis is St. John's CANNOT have three straight years of losing records to maintain any degree of revelance in recruiting. Local kids want to go to winners and if the reality of being losers becomes a common perception then we are not going to win any recruiting battles.
If you recall in Lav's final season, I speculated that even if Lavin went to his 4th consecutive post season (NCAA) but failed to sign the impact players he was pursuing that I thought he would be fired. That is exactly what happened.
For St. John's to have any chances with the Luther Mohammeds of the world we need a winning record next year. Period. The End. I, and others here, think if an effective 5th player becomes available, we need a full court press. If Lovett leaves and Williams moves on, Matt and staff can't use a 365 day model. They need a 90 day model with real contributors.
I admit the Slice and Brown fiascos have left a poor impression on me.
The absolute lack of defensive strategy and lack of defensive emphasis has also pissed me off, along with the piss in my cornflakes.
Our similarities to DePaul while paying premium salaries is also disturbing.
Our motto should be "No more excuses" and not "Trust the Process".
We should be better next year but not by waiting for Yakwe, Ellison or Owens to have talent epiphanies.
This year we were lucky that two local players (Ponds and Ahmed ) wanted to play in front of family. Without them this season would have been a complete disaster.
The time for gradual increments is over. Get impact players or change direction.[/quote]

Hmm, so you want stability by changing coaches every 3 years? Sounds logical. Look, we may never climb out of the hole Lavin put us in or we may make the tournament next year, that's just the way it is. In reality, you could really go back and say the hole Jarvis put us in. People hate Roberts here but the fact is, his hands were tied as far as who he could recruit. He also was a lousy coach but coaching was somewhat secondary to repairing the public image, at least in the beginning. That changed with Lavin but for whatever reasons, he stopped working early on and the cupboard was beyond bare for Mullin. On paper hiring Rohressen was genius except IMO, he also, for whatever reason, didn't want to do what he was hired for, recruiting. Brown was a gamble, everyone knew that with no real downside. We shall see what happens in the next 2-3 years because like it or not, it is a process. It sucks being a Johnnies fan which is why there aren't that many of us left.

 

[Sherman Sheridan & Grant]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

Who pissed in your corn flakes today ?
Come on 72 unless you are best buddies with Lavin or Slice I didn't know you have an axe to grind with the staff.
Year 1 they had to field a team. Did you forget the current staff was left with a grand total of 3 bench warmers ?
Year 2 four of the players from year 1 graduated. I don't know how you didn't see the huge improvement from 1 Big East win to 7 ?
Could things have been better sure they could have but there was huge improvement from last season.
Just too bad you aren't able to give this staff a fair chance.

Me, you and everyone else here have no choice but to support our coaches. My issue is with Matt and his Twitter understatement. We all know that it is a gradual process since we are not Kentucky, Duke or UCLA. Three straight years of not going to post season would be cause for termination at those schools. My emphasis is St. John's CANNOT have three straight years of losing records to maintain any degree of revelance in recruiting. Local kids want to go to winners and if the reality of being losers becomes a common perception then we are not going to win any recruiting battles.
If you recall in Lav's final season, I speculated that even if Lavin went to his 4th consecutive post season (NCAA) but failed to sign the impact players he was pursuing that I thought he would be fired. That is exactly what happened.
For St. John's to have any chances with the Luther Mohammeds of the world we need a winning record next year. Period. The End. I, and others here, think if an effective 5th player becomes available, we need a full court press. If Lovett leaves and Williams moves on, Matt and staff can't use a 365 day model. They need a 90 day model with real contributors.
I admit the Slice and Brown fiascos have left a poor impression on me.
The absolute lack of defensive strategy and lack of defensive emphasis has also pissed me off, along with the piss in my cornflakes.
Our similarities to DePaul while paying premium salaries is also disturbing.
Our motto should be "No more excuses" and not "Trust the Process".
We should be better next year but not by waiting for Yakwe, Ellison or Owens to have talent epiphanies.
This year we were lucky that two local players (Ponds and Ahmed ) wanted to play in front of family. Without them this season would have been a complete disaster.
The time for gradual increments is over. Get impact players or change direction.

Hmm, so you want stability by changing coaches every 3 years? Sounds logical. Look, we may never climb out of the hole Lavin put us in or we may make the tournament next year, that's just the way it is. In reality, you could really go back and say the hole Jarvis put us in. People hate Roberts here but the fact is, his hands were tied as far as who he could recruit. He also was a lousy coach but coaching was somewhat secondary to repairing the public image, at least in the beginning. That changed with Lavin but for whatever reasons, he stopped working early on and the cupboard was beyond bare for Mullin. On paper hiring Rohressen was genius except IMO, he also, for whatever reason, didn't want to do what he was hired for, recruiting. Brown was a gamble, everyone knew that with no real downside. We shall see what happens in the next 2-3 years because like it or not, it is a process. It sucks being a Johnnies fan which is why there aren't that many of us left.[/quote]

Greetings fellow posters and countrymen!

With the lines & boxes delineating posts, I was not sure who posted what before me RMN, 72, Logen...so let me say my " thank you" is for your thoroughness and passion. Or maybe I should retract my thank you (?)

You care about the program "nice"
You disdain Ls nice
You are eager for progress and Ws "nice"
You display different paths to these goals "nice"

However like it or not - and though in life there are times when there is a quantum leap or epiphany...I'll leave sports examples to others.
Kind of like Saul becoming Paul in a flash
OTHERWISE it's patience and perspective

Under those essential life ingredients
We are fine and progressing, which is "nice"

Another ingredient is appreciating what we are and the progress we have made right now, as is...

I think if we project into some sort of future time warp, SOME posters will complain when we only have 20 wins, or only make the tourney, or only advance to the sweet sixteen.,,

Still less than two measly years since CM and staff inherited an expansion team, D-2 program... so
Let's give the impatient critique a rest

all the best & back to sleep, or back to the cornflakes :lol:
Sheridan

 

[SJU85]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

[/quote]

I suggest you read it again. The meaning is gradual improvement in 365 days means we will be sitting in front of the TV with a winning record and/or a BE Tourny Championship waiting to hear our name called. If you don't have a winning record, unless you win your Conference Tournament, then next year's Selection Sunday would be as meaningless for the program as this year's.

 

[monte]

CM's 2nd year was very similar to Norm and Lav's 2nd years, and both previous coaches had thier teams slightly over .500 in thier 3rd years. Norm was left with some solid players, Lav was left with a stocked roster and Chris was left with nothing. Most everyone was preaching patience with Norm and Lav, so why is Chris not being extended the same courtesy? Afterall he has arquably done more with less then his predecessors, i thinj a .500 record with an NIT appearance is a reasonable expectation for next year, with the big dance being a reach goal.

 

[paultzman]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

I suggest you read it again. The meaning is gradual improvement in 365 days means we will be sitting in front of the TV with a winning record and/or a BE Tourny Championship waiting to hear our name called. If you don't have a winning record, unless you win your Conference Tournament, then next year's Selection Sunday would be as meaningless for the program as this year's.[/quote]

Agree on your interpretation of MA's tweet & sense strongly staff knows importance of being in serious consideration for a bid at the same time next year. Of course the roster and coaching staff composition is still up in the air, so it is premature to making any meaningful projections IMO.

 

[IDRAFT]

From everyone I have spoken to at the school, there is a full commitment to this current staff. Unlike the Norm years there is interest and ticket sales have not been bad at all. If some currently unpredictable scandal were to happen I guess things could change but otherwise nothing is going to happen in Year 3 to stop this staff from getting a Year 4. If anyone thinks that a step back to ten wins next year is going to change that they will be disappointed twice:

1. When we only win ten games
2. When that doesn't change anything

So it's fine if we want to say anything less than X, Y, or Z is unacceptable next year as long as it's understood the people in charge don't care what we think. Personally, I would expect win/loss improvement and will be disappointed with anything less (Lovett or no Lovett) but am just as interested to see if we can get one or two good commitments this summer.

 

[logen]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

I suggest you read it again. The meaning is gradual improvement in 365 days means we will be sitting in front of the TV with a winning record and/or a BE Tourny Championship waiting to hear our name called. If you don't have a winning record, unless you win your Conference Tournament, then next year's Selection Sunday would be as meaningless for the program as this year's.

Agree on your interpretation of MA's tweet & sense strongly staff knows importance of being in serious consideration for a bid at the same time next year. Of course the roster and coaching staff composition is still up in the air, so it is premature to making any meaningful projections IMO.[/quote]

Not to be obvious, but pressure to succeed is a constant at this level. You don't think Boeheim is getting heat for not making the tourney this year? I guarantee he is.; now I don't mean his job is in jeopardy of course, just that there are some big money alums who will make it known that not making the NCAAs is "unacceptable", guaranteed. I made no bones about what I didn't like about this years team but does that matter? Not one bit, Chris and co. should get the 4-5 years EVERY coach should get for a major rebuilding short of a major scandal, etc. And for my thinking we just finished year one.

 

[we are sju]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

I suggest you read it again. The meaning is gradual improvement in 365 days means we will be sitting in front of the TV with a winning record and/or a BE Tourny Championship waiting to hear our name called. If you don't have a winning record, unless you win your Conference Tournament, then next year's Selection Sunday would be as meaningless for the program as this year's.

Agree on your interpretation of MA's tweet & sense strongly staff knows importance of being in serious consideration for a bid at the same time next year. Of course the roster and coaching staff composition is still up in the air, so it is premature to making any meaningful projections IMO.

Not to be obvious, but pressure to succeed is a constant at this level. You don't think Boeheim is getting heat for not making the tourney this year? I guarantee he is.; now I don't mean his job is in jeopardy of course, just that there are some big money alums who will make it known that not making the NCAAs is "unacceptable", guaranteed. I made no bones about what I didn't like about this years team but does that matter? Not one bit, Chris and co. should get the 4-5 years EVERY coach should get for a major rebuilding short of a major scandal, etc. And for my thinking we just finished year one.[/quote]

I pretty much agree with everything you have been posting lately with one exception. My one worry is the thing you absolved him from early this week. Team seemed to give up during games and at various points of the season. That was def not a ST john's trait even in bad years with the exception of the last two Mahoney years.

 

[Anthony Mattia]

I realize that next year will be the 3rd year for Mullin and staff to be on the sidelines, but, I don't view it as year 3 of the rebuild, I view it as year 2. Why? Because he did not get to go through a full recruitment cycle and was left with no players his 1st year. He took a bunch of grad transfers that weren't very good, just to put a team on the floor. So for me, the rebuild just finished year 1, and I am happy with what I have seen, and hope for better days to come.

 

[paultzman]

I realize that next year will be the 3rd year for Mullin and staff to be on the sidelines, but, I don't view it as year 3 of the rebuild, I view it as year 2. Why? Because he did not get to go through a full recruitment cycle and was left with no players his 1st year. He took a bunch of grad transfers that weren't very good, just to put a team on the floor. So for me, the rebuild just finished year 1, and I am happy with what I have seen, and hope for better days to come.

That's fair. To me if we are in hunt for NCAA bid for most of next season, retain Ponds & other core guys, land a solid 18 recruiting class & are positioned well for 19 kids, it should give us confidence we are on track for continuous success.

 

[sjc88]

I realize that next year will be the 3rd year for Mullin and staff to be on the sidelines, but, I don't view it as year 3 of the rebuild, I view it as year 2. Why? Because he did not get to go through a full recruitment cycle and was left with no players his 1st year. He took a bunch of grad transfers that weren't very good, just to put a team on the floor. So for me, the rebuild just finished year 1, and I am happy with what I have seen, and hope for better days to come.

That's fair. To me if we are in hunt for NCAA bid for most of next season, retain Ponds & other core guys, land a solid 18 recruiting class & are positioned well for 19 kids, it should give us confidence we are on track for continuous success.

I would add the recent interviews (Francessa) and his actions at the G'town game signal that CM is committed to a long term turnaround. He cares. We need stability most of all and CM seemed more engaged (at least to me) this year. He is not perfect and should and will be criticized along the way. However, I think he is warming to the task and growing into the role. We can only hope because we need him to succeed and I know I will be patient and give him full support fwiw.

 

[Class of 72]

I realize that next year will be the 3rd year for Mullin and staff to be on the sidelines, but, I don't view it as year 3 of the rebuild, I view it as year 2. Why? Because he did not get to go through a full recruitment cycle and was left with no players his 1st year. He took a bunch of grad transfers that weren't very good, just to put a team on the floor. So for me, the rebuild just finished year 1, and I am happy with what I have seen, and hope for better days to come.

That's fair. To me if we are in hunt for NCAA bid for most of next season, retain Ponds & other core guys, land a solid 18 recruiting class & are positioned well for 19 kids, it should give us confidence we are on track for continuous success.

That is basically what I was inferring in my post that was seen by some as anti-Mully.
Year 3 MUST be a winning season. Heck, this season should have been a winning season. Instead of 14-19, we should have been 17-16 had it not been for three inexplicable losses.
With more experience and player upgrades, our team needs to post at minimum 18 wins and if Matt reels in a 5th year big, there is no reason not to expect 20 wins.
If we don't reach those goals and have a similar season to this one then recruiting becomes an uphill battle. It already is. We are involved with 3 bigs from the 2018 class. We need one to sign early next year. That will set up the 2019 class nicely.

 

[SJU1512]

I realize that next year will be the 3rd year for Mullin and staff to be on the sidelines, but, I don't view it as year 3 of the rebuild, I view it as year 2. Why? Because he did not get to go through a full recruitment cycle and was left with no players his 1st year. He took a bunch of grad transfers that weren't very good, just to put a team on the floor. So for me, the rebuild just finished year 1, and I am happy with what I have seen, and hope for better days to come.

That's fair. To me if we are in hunt for NCAA bid for most of next season, retain Ponds & other core guys, land a solid 18 recruiting class & are positioned well for 19 kids, it should give us confidence we are on track for continuous success.

Agree. To add to the attributes you noted and as think we've discussed previously Year 4 is really the telling one for NCAA IMO. Would be great to make it next year, think in a few months we'll be looking at a roster that has a reasonable chance to make it, but not going to be a referendum on this staff if they don't. Think .500 or better overall and in league with a mid-high teen W total are the musts. If that adds up to NCAA or if we outperform that and are squarely in NCAA great, but not a must.

Year 4 you really need to be there. As Providence and Marquette and even Seton Hall demonstrated this year it's tough to make the tournament but it's not that tough. Providence is dancing for their 4th year in a row which is more than SJU has been since 2000. They can't be that much better positioned than us to succeed.

Don't know when I first got concerned about Lavin's ability to establish year over year success here, but it was definitely by the time SJU didn't make the tourney with loaded and balanced roster in terms of experience in Year 4. For that kind of team all the early talk about peaking by February, then the 5 game losing streak to start conference play, and blowing a 7 point late first half lead that turned into a 17 point late second half deficit in the BET v. Providence (although we scratched back) with confounding substitution patterns when it was essentially an NCAA play-in game...I recall sitting in MSG after that one and at the end of that season having questions. Just didn't seem like we were getting most out of what we had.

Think it's fair to evaluate this staff on similar timeline.

 

[Class of 72]

I realize that next year will be the 3rd year for Mullin and staff to be on the sidelines, but, I don't view it as year 3 of the rebuild, I view it as year 2. Why? Because he did not get to go through a full recruitment cycle and was left with no players his 1st year. He took a bunch of grad transfers that weren't very good, just to put a team on the floor. So for me, the rebuild just finished year 1, and I am happy with what I have seen, and hope for better days to come.

That's fair. To me if we are in hunt for NCAA bid for most of next season, retain Ponds & other core guys, land a solid 18 recruiting class & are positioned well for 19 kids, it should give us confidence we are on track for continuous success.

Agree. To add to the attributes you noted and as think we've discussed previously Year 4 is really the telling one for NCAA IMO. Would be great to make it next year, think in a few months we'll be looking at a roster that has a reasonable chance to make it, but not going to be a referendum on this staff if they don't. Think .500 or better overall and in league with a mid-high teen W total are the musts. If that adds up to NCAA or if we outperform that and are squarely in NCAA great, but not a must.

Year 4 you really need to be there. As Providence and Marquette and even Seton Hall demonstrated this year it's tough to make the tournament but it's not that tough. Providence is dancing for their 4th year in a row which is more than SJU has been since 2000. They can't be that much better positioned than us to succeed.

Don't know when I first got concerned about Lavin's ability to establish year over year success here, but it was definitely by the time SJU didn't make the tourney with loaded and balanced roster in terms of experience in Year 4. For that kind of team all the early talk about peaking by February, then the 5 game losing streak to start conference play, and blowing a 7 point late first half lead that turned into a 17 point late second half deficit in the BET v. Providence (although we scratched back) with confounding substitution patterns when it was essentially an NCAA play-in game...I recall sitting in MSG after that one and at the end of that season having questions. Just didn't seem like we were getting most out of what we had.

Think it's fair to evaluate this staff on similar timeline.

Very valid points. Providence is the example worth comparing our program to imo. Cooley does a great job recruiting and coaching. He came very close to signing our best player Shamorie Ponds. Picture our team without Ponds and Providence with him and you get the picture. For our investment in these coaches there is no reason not to expect one top 60 player every year.

 

[Red.Fans]

team addressed biggest issue completely from year 1 : ball handling. I don't know the stats but I'm fairly certain we were near the top of the league on the positive side in turnovers. We did not address playmaking enough but to me that is a process of maturity.

The size issue is the biggest for year 3. I am confident it will be addressed and part of it already has. Simon and Clark address a big part of this. The glaring omission is interior. Relying upon Clark to fill this need would be a huge mistake. He will help but I expect him to be more of a 3/4 on O playing a lot like Owens did this season with a tendency to pop out for the jumper. On D he should help with some of the more larger, athletic guys that plagued us all season starting with Minn. We need a big with good hands to work with our guards and complete the offense. If this is one guy great but the other side is a BIG, TOUGH, SMART, space eater that demands attention on offense and battles consistently on D. We've got enough guys to run the floor so this doesn't have to be a priority as far as I care and we've already seen in spades that the lack of serious defense didn't create enough of the open floor opportunities so don't show me another bean pole. Tough. Good hands, decent passer.

That is met and we are an NCAA team IMHO and maybe even do some damage in conf.

 

[Class of 72]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

Who pissed in your corn flakes today ?
Come on 72 unless you are best buddies with Lavin or Slice I didn't know you have an axe to grind with the staff.
Year 1 they had to field a team. Did you forget the current staff was left with a grand total of 3 bench warmers ?
Year 2 four of the players from year 1 graduated. I don't know how you didn't see the huge improvement from 1 Big East win to 7 ?
Could things have been better sure they could have but there was huge improvement from last season.
Just too bad you aren't able to give this staff a fair chance.

Me, you and everyone else here have no choice but to support our coaches. My issue is with Matt and his Twitter understatement. We all know that it is a gradual process since we are not Kentucky, Duke or UCLA. Three straight years of not going to post season would be cause for termination at those schools. My emphasis is St. John's CANNOT have three straight years of losing records to maintain any degree of revelance in recruiting. Local kids want to go to winners and if the reality of being losers becomes a common perception then we are not going to win any recruiting battles.
If you recall in Lav's final season, I speculated that even if Lavin went to his 4th consecutive post season (NCAA) but failed to sign the impact players he was pursuing that I thought he would be fired. That is exactly what happened.
For St. John's to have any chances with the Luther Mohammeds of the world we need a winning record next year. Period. The End. I, and others here, think if an effective 5th player becomes available, we need a full court press. If Lovett leaves and Williams moves on, Matt and staff can't use a 365 day model. They need a 90 day model with real contributors.
I admit the Slice and Brown fiascos have left a poor impression on me.
The absolute lack of defensive strategy and lack of defensive emphasis has also pissed me off, along with the piss in my cornflakes.
Our similarities to DePaul while paying premium salaries is also disturbing.
Our motto should be "No more excuses" and not "Trust the Process".
We should be better next year but not by waiting for Yakwe, Ellison or Owens to have talent epiphanies.
This year we were lucky that two local players (Ponds and Ahmed ) wanted to play in front of family. Without them this season would have been a complete disaster.
The time for gradual increments is over. Get impact players or change direction.

Hmm, so you want stability by changing coaches every 3 years? Sounds logical. Look, we may never climb out of the hole Lavin put us in or we may make the tournament next year, that's just the way it is. In reality, you could really go back and say the hole Jarvis put us in. People hate Roberts here but the fact is, his hands were tied as far as who he could recruit. He also was a lousy coach but coaching was somewhat secondary to repairing the public image, at least in the beginning. That changed with Lavin but for whatever reasons, he stopped working early on and the cupboard was beyond bare for Mullin. On paper hiring Rohressen was genius except IMO, he also, for whatever reason, didn't want to do what he was hired for, recruiting. Brown was a gamble, everyone knew that with no real downside. We shall see what happens in the next 2-3 years because like it or not, it is a process. It sucks being a Johnnies fan which is why there aren't that many of us left.[/quote]

I never suggested changing coaching staff every 3 years. Being who we are, that won't happen. My example of blue blood programs like Kentucky, Duke, etc. was to highlight how far removed from expecting success we have come. THEY would fire a coach who had a winning record but failed to go to the NCAA tournament 3 years in row.
We set the bar so low yet now have no issue paying premium salaries. That incongruent approach to the basketball program is ludicrous. I have no doubt that Cluess could have duplicated both Lavin's and Mullin's records over the past 7 years for a quarter of the cost. If that type of progress or performance is what we should become used to then hiring Lavin and Mullin was a waste of time and money.

 

[RedStormRising]

I realize that next year will be the 3rd year for Mullin and staff to be on the sidelines, but, I don't view it as year 3 of the rebuild, I view it as year 2. Why? Because he did not get to go through a full recruitment cycle and was left with no players his 1st year. He took a bunch of grad transfers that weren't very good, just to put a team on the floor. So for me, the rebuild just finished year 1, and I am happy with what I have seen, and hope for better days to come.

That's fair. To me if we are in hunt for NCAA bid for most of next season, retain Ponds & other core guys, land a solid 18 recruiting class & are positioned well for 19 kids, it should give us confidence we are on track for continuous success.

"Continuous success"?? I'd be happy with any success whatsoever!

Truthfully though, this was a fun team to watch. I hope they stick together and enjoy some better times.

 

[SI1996]

I realize that next year will be the 3rd year for Mullin and staff to be on the sidelines, but, I don't view it as year 3 of the rebuild, I view it as year 2. Why? Because he did not get to go through a full recruitment cycle and was left with no players his 1st year. He took a bunch of grad transfers that weren't very good, just to put a team on the floor. So for me, the rebuild just finished year 1, and I am happy with what I have seen, and hope for better days to come.

That's fair. To me if we are in hunt for NCAA bid for most of next season, retain Ponds & other core guys, land a solid 18 recruiting class & are positioned well for 19 kids, it should give us confidence we are on track for continuous success.

That is basically what I was inferring in my post that was seen by some as anti-Mully.
Year 3 MUST be a winning season. Heck, this season should have been a winning season. Instead of 14-19, we should have been 17-16 had it not been for three inexplicable losses.
With more experience and player upgrades, our team needs to post at minimum 18 wins and if Matt reels in a 5th year big, there is no reason not to expect 20 wins.
If we don't reach those goals and have a similar season to this one then recruiting becomes an uphill battle. It already is. We are involved with 3 bigs from the 2018 class. We need one to sign early next year. That will set up the 2019 class nicely.

I think most ppl were crippled by the pic so I am surprised you didn't get more hate responses

 

[Sherman Sheridan & Grant]

I realize that next year will be the 3rd year for Mullin and staff to be on the sidelines, but, I don't view it as year 3 of the rebuild, I view it as year 2. Why? Because he did not get to go through a full recruitment cycle and was left with no players his 1st year. He took a bunch of grad transfers that weren't very good, just to put a team on the floor. So for me, the rebuild just finished year 1, and I am happy with what I have seen, and hope for better days to come.

That's fair. To me if we are in hunt for NCAA bid for most of next season, retain Ponds & other core guys, land a solid 18 recruiting class & are positioned well for 19 kids, it should give us confidence we are on track for continuous success.

Agree. To add to the attributes you noted and as think we've discussed previously Year 4 is really the telling one for NCAA IMO. Would be great to make it next year, think in a few months we'll be looking at a roster that has a reasonable chance to make it, but not going to be a referendum on this staff if they don't. Think .500 or better overall and in league with a mid-high teen W total are the musts. If that adds up to NCAA or if we outperform that and are squarely in NCAA great, but not a must.

Year 4 you really need to be there. As Providence and Marquette and even Seton Hall demonstrated this year it's tough to make the tournament but it's not that tough. Providence is dancing for their 4th year in a row which is more than SJU has been since 2000. They can't be that much better positioned than us to succeed.

Don't know when I first got concerned about Lavin's ability to establish year over year success here, but it was definitely by the time SJU didn't make the tourney with loaded and balanced roster in terms of experience in Year 4. For that kind of team all the early talk about peaking by February, then the 5 game losing streak to start conference play, and blowing a 7 point late first half lead that turned into a 17 point late second half deficit in the BET v. Providence (although we scratched back) with confounding substitution patterns when it was essentially an NCAA play-in game...I recall sitting in MSG after that one and at the end of that season having questions. Just didn't seem like we were getting most out of what we had.

Think it's fair to evaluate this staff on similar timeline.

Very valid points. Providence is the example worth comparing our program to imo. Cooley does a great job recruiting and coaching. He came very close to signing our best player Shamorie Ponds. Picture our team without Ponds and Providence with him and you get the picture. For our investment in these coaches there is no reason not to expect one top 60 player every year.

Even 1 top 60 player 3 out of 4 years and sprinkle in a talented transfer, a top JC, and/ or a foreign player
We don't need stellar r cruising classes every year...
There are a number of paths to succeed
AND CM and Company WILL succeed
( or I will apologize :lol: )
Write it down !!!

let's go St. John's!!!