Matt A

[paultzman]

Lovett is a fun player to watch and I don't see any problems with him on the court. The chemistry between him and Shamorie isn't great but could improve if he stays next season. I also think the attacks on Lovett and Ponds defense are unwarranted. We have a defense problem but a portion of that is a result of giving up so many offensive rebounds and having an inexperienced team.

As I have no idea who the fifth year players or transfers could be if Lovett leaves I don't know what kind of team we will have next season. Getting back to the NCAA's is really important to me.

Obviously building a longer term winning program is the goal but I don't see that without getting back to the NCAA's. The year after next our remaining marginal players will be seniors and Ponds and Simon will be juniors. We will have a donut hole in the sophomore column unless we get a transfer. This could be a long rebuild if it is one at all.

Lovett and Ponds are both poor defenders and one major reason we give up so many offensive rebounds is that the bigs are forever scrambling covering for them. Both are terrific offensive players but the road to the NCAAs and a consistent program is through the other end of the court.

I am not disagreeing with you totally as obviously defense is important. However our best team ever featured two terrible defenders as their best two players and maybe the best two players in the history of the program. Granted it looks worse when two small guards are indifferent defenders.

Basketball 101, man to man defense starts with the guards keeping the ball in front of them, ideally channeling them to where you want them to go; if you don't do that you don't have a defense. They are not our only problem at all but you have no chance of fixing anything when opposing guards consistently break the defense down and/or can take the ball wherever they want to go. I recognize both are young and I fully expect Ponds to improve immensely next season because I think he is a very smart player and committed to winning. I think he is a product of what he could get away with in high school/AAU more than anything else. Lovett may be the same but IMO that is a moot point; I believe he is gone and will be very surprised if he is back next year. For the record, I definitely hope I am wrong on that point.

I agree he has been bad defensively, but I would have liked to see Lovett with better players surrounding him. I think he would have been a much more complete and efficient player than he was this year.

Agree, but I think while ragged at times and inconsistent at times we have enough offense to have had a better year. Again, I am generally OK with the record but there were just too many games where we did not really compete, that bothers me (obviously!!)

Agree completely. I was never hung up on the record as the definitive measure of success or failure. Like you, I'm fine with the final record, although .500 would have felt so much better. I has basically hoping to see improvement over the course of the year. We showed flashes of improvement, but were never able to sustain anything. That's because of our lack of defense. Consistently hard defense will keep a team in most every game, but our D was non-existent many games. So if our offense wasn't working on all cylinders, we usually had no chance of winning. I said it before and I'll say it again, we did not have one single glue guy on this team. Mostly because we were very young. It would have been great to have a guy like Ron M'Vouka, for example, for maturity and leadership. With the additions of Simon and Clark, and the likely addition of one or two 5th year kids, I'm hopeful that a couple of guys steph up to provide the leadership that we were so sorely lacking this year.

No offense Monte as I think outside of your Mussini infatuation you are a good poster. HOWEVER, we are now wishing we had a Ron M'Vouka? When we had Ron M'Vouka we wished we had a Marcus Lovett. The problem is as a program we can't afford to just keep giving up on good players. I love Chris Mullin, but his job is to keep the kids he gets and to get them to play hard. Would rather Lovett stay and defend then go get lesser players who play hard but stink. Was easier to watch this year than last and everyone played hard last year.

Maybe one day we get to a point where we can afford to jettison talented players because we can replace them. But until that point the coaching staff has to do whatever it can to keep the few we have.

Your premise seems to be that Mullin is jettisoning Lovett which is silly. Lovett is leaving (IMO) because he wants to get paid to play, it's what happens when you recruit good players.

In fairness staff has probably engaged Marcus & his family in hopes of him staying. No pushing him out I sense. He's only a freshman, talented & well worth that effort. At end of day if he & family want to move on & earn $$, there is nothing much you can do about it.

 

[cappy105]

small money to leave, possible BIG money if he stays

 

[we are sju]

Lovett is a fun player to watch and I don't see any problems with him on the court. The chemistry between him and Shamorie isn't great but could improve if he stays next season. I also think the attacks on Lovett and Ponds defense are unwarranted. We have a defense problem but a portion of that is a result of giving up so many offensive rebounds and having an inexperienced team.

As I have no idea who the fifth year players or transfers could be if Lovett leaves I don't know what kind of team we will have next season. Getting back to the NCAA's is really important to me.

Obviously building a longer term winning program is the goal but I don't see that without getting back to the NCAA's. The year after next our remaining marginal players will be seniors and Ponds and Simon will be juniors. We will have a donut hole in the sophomore column unless we get a transfer. This could be a long rebuild if it is one at all.

Lovett and Ponds are both poor defenders and one major reason we give up so many offensive rebounds is that the bigs are forever scrambling covering for them. Both are terrific offensive players but the road to the NCAAs and a consistent program is through the other end of the court.

I am not disagreeing with you totally as obviously defense is important. However our best team ever featured two terrible defenders as their best two players and maybe the best two players in the history of the program. Granted it looks worse when two small guards are indifferent defenders.

Basketball 101, man to man defense starts with the guards keeping the ball in front of them, ideally channeling them to where you want them to go; if you don't do that you don't have a defense. They are not our only problem at all but you have no chance of fixing anything when opposing guards consistently break the defense down and/or can take the ball wherever they want to go. I recognize both are young and I fully expect Ponds to improve immensely next season because I think he is a very smart player and committed to winning. I think he is a product of what he could get away with in high school/AAU more than anything else. Lovett may be the same but IMO that is a moot point; I believe he is gone and will be very surprised if he is back next year. For the record, I definitely hope I am wrong on that point.

I agree he has been bad defensively, but I would have liked to see Lovett with better players surrounding him. I think he would have been a much more complete and efficient player than he was this year.

Agree, but I think while ragged at times and inconsistent at times we have enough offense to have had a better year. Again, I am generally OK with the record but there were just too many games where we did not really compete, that bothers me (obviously!!)

Agree completely. I was never hung up on the record as the definitive measure of success or failure. Like you, I'm fine with the final record, although .500 would have felt so much better. I has basically hoping to see improvement over the course of the year. We showed flashes of improvement, but were never able to sustain anything. That's because of our lack of defense. Consistently hard defense will keep a team in most every game, but our D was non-existent many games. So if our offense wasn't working on all cylinders, we usually had no chance of winning. I said it before and I'll say it again, we did not have one single glue guy on this team. Mostly because we were very young. It would have been great to have a guy like Ron M'Vouka, for example, for maturity and leadership. With the additions of Simon and Clark, and the likely addition of one or two 5th year kids, I'm hopeful that a couple of guys step up to provide the leadership that we were so sorely lacking this year.

No offense Monte as I think outside of your Mussini infatuation you are a good poster. HOWEVER, we are now wishing we had a Ron M'Vouka? When we had Ron M'Vouka we wished we had a Marcus Lovett. The problem is as a program we can't afford to just keep giving up on good players. I love Chris Mullin, but his job is to keep the kids he gets and to get them to play hard. Would rather Lovett stay and defend then go get lesser players who play hard but stink. Was easier to watch this year than last and everyone played hard last year.

Maybe one day we get to a point where we can afford to jettison talented players because we can replace them. But until that point the coaching staff has to do whatever it can to keep the few we have.

Your premise seems to be that Mullin is jettisoning Lovett which is silly. Lovett is leaving (IMO) because he wants to get paid to play, it's what happens when you recruit good players.

Nope. I was addressing the posters on these boards who casually think the talented kids we get are easily replaceable. Will be a big loss. To think otherwise is silly.

 

[logen]

Lovett is a fun player to watch and I don't see any problems with him on the court. The chemistry between him and Shamorie isn't great but could improve if he stays next season. I also think the attacks on Lovett and Ponds defense are unwarranted. We have a defense problem but a portion of that is a result of giving up so many offensive rebounds and having an inexperienced team.

As I have no idea who the fifth year players or transfers could be if Lovett leaves I don't know what kind of team we will have next season. Getting back to the NCAA's is really important to me.

Obviously building a longer term winning program is the goal but I don't see that without getting back to the NCAA's. The year after next our remaining marginal players will be seniors and Ponds and Simon will be juniors. We will have a donut hole in the sophomore column unless we get a transfer. This could be a long rebuild if it is one at all.

Lovett and Ponds are both poor defenders and one major reason we give up so many offensive rebounds is that the bigs are forever scrambling covering for them. Both are terrific offensive players but the road to the NCAAs and a consistent program is through the other end of the court.

I am not disagreeing with you totally as obviously defense is important. However our best team ever featured two terrible defenders as their best two players and maybe the best two players in the history of the program. Granted it looks worse when two small guards are indifferent defenders.

Basketball 101, man to man defense starts with the guards keeping the ball in front of them, ideally channeling them to where you want them to go; if you don't do that you don't have a defense. They are not our only problem at all but you have no chance of fixing anything when opposing guards consistently break the defense down and/or can take the ball wherever they want to go. I recognize both are young and I fully expect Ponds to improve immensely next season because I think he is a very smart player and committed to winning. I think he is a product of what he could get away with in high school/AAU more than anything else. Lovett may be the same but IMO that is a moot point; I believe he is gone and will be very surprised if he is back next year. For the record, I definitely hope I am wrong on that point.

I agree he has been bad defensively, but I would have liked to see Lovett with better players surrounding him. I think he would have been a much more complete and efficient player than he was this year.

Agree, but I think while ragged at times and inconsistent at times we have enough offense to have had a better year. Again, I am generally OK with the record but there were just too many games where we did not really compete, that bothers me (obviously!!)

Agree completely. I was never hung up on the record as the definitive measure of success or failure. Like you, I'm fine with the final record, although .500 would have felt so much better. I has basically hoping to see improvement over the course of the year. We showed flashes of improvement, but were never able to sustain anything. That's because of our lack of defense. Consistently hard defense will keep a team in most every game, but our D was non-existent many games. So if our offense wasn't working on all cylinders, we usually had no chance of winning. I said it before and I'll say it again, we did not have one single glue guy on this team. Mostly because we were very young. It would have been great to have a guy like Ron M'Vouka, for example, for maturity and leadership. With the additions of Simon and Clark, and the likely addition of one or two 5th year kids, I'm hopeful that a couple of guys step up to provide the leadership that we were so sorely lacking this year.

No offense Monte as I think outside of your Mussini infatuation you are a good poster. HOWEVER, we are now wishing we had a Ron M'Vouka? When we had Ron M'Vouka we wished we had a Marcus Lovett. The problem is as a program we can't afford to just keep giving up on good players. I love Chris Mullin, but his job is to keep the kids he gets and to get them to play hard. Would rather Lovett stay and defend then go get lesser players who play hard but stink. Was easier to watch this year than last and everyone played hard last year.

Maybe one day we get to a point where we can afford to jettison talented players because we can replace them. But until that point the coaching staff has to do whatever it can to keep the few we have.

Your premise seems to be that Mullin is jettisoning Lovett which is silly. Lovett is leaving (IMO) because he wants to get paid to play, it's what happens when you recruit good players.

Nope. I was addressing the posters on these boards who casually think the talented kids we get are easily replaceable. Will be a big loss. To think otherwise is silly.

Fair enough, but "Maybe one day we get to a point where we can afford to jettison talented players" implies otherwise but it may just be my interpretation of the word jettison. I believe Mullin is doing what he can to keep Lovett but I also think LoVett's track record suggests he is a bit of a rolling stone. I believe he already has a next destination in mind, for the record, I was told that by a "friend" a few weeks ago in reference to a comment that he expects Lovett's play to "plateau" which may be true or may be a coincidence, I don't know. I hear a lot and some of it seems real and some complete BS.

 

[we are sju]

Lovett is a fun player to watch and I don't see any problems with him on the court. The chemistry between him and Shamorie isn't great but could improve if he stays next season. I also think the attacks on Lovett and Ponds defense are unwarranted. We have a defense problem but a portion of that is a result of giving up so many offensive rebounds and having an inexperienced team.

As I have no idea who the fifth year players or transfers could be if Lovett leaves I don't know what kind of team we will have next season. Getting back to the NCAA's is really important to me.

Obviously building a longer term winning program is the goal but I don't see that without getting back to the NCAA's. The year after next our remaining marginal players will be seniors and Ponds and Simon will be juniors. We will have a donut hole in the sophomore column unless we get a transfer. This could be a long rebuild if it is one at all.

Lovett and Ponds are both poor defenders and one major reason we give up so many offensive rebounds is that the bigs are forever scrambling covering for them. Both are terrific offensive players but the road to the NCAAs and a consistent program is through the other end of the court.

I am not disagreeing with you totally as obviously defense is important. However our best team ever featured two terrible defenders as their best two players and maybe the best two players in the history of the program. Granted it looks worse when two small guards are indifferent defenders.

Basketball 101, man to man defense starts with the guards keeping the ball in front of them, ideally channeling them to where you want them to go; if you don't do that you don't have a defense. They are not our only problem at all but you have no chance of fixing anything when opposing guards consistently break the defense down and/or can take the ball wherever they want to go. I recognize both are young and I fully expect Ponds to improve immensely next season because I think he is a very smart player and committed to winning. I think he is a product of what he could get away with in high school/AAU more than anything else. Lovett may be the same but IMO that is a moot point; I believe he is gone and will be very surprised if he is back next year. For the record, I definitely hope I am wrong on that point.

I agree he has been bad defensively, but I would have liked to see Lovett with better players surrounding him. I think he would have been a much more complete and efficient player than he was this year.

Agree, but I think while ragged at times and inconsistent at times we have enough offense to have had a better year. Again, I am generally OK with the record but there were just too many games where we did not really compete, that bothers me (obviously!!)

Agree completely. I was never hung up on the record as the definitive measure of success or failure. Like you, I'm fine with the final record, although .500 would have felt so much better. I has basically hoping to see improvement over the course of the year. We showed flashes of improvement, but were never able to sustain anything. That's because of our lack of defense. Consistently hard defense will keep a team in most every game, but our D was non-existent many games. So if our offense wasn't working on all cylinders, we usually had no chance of winning. I said it before and I'll say it again, we did not have one single glue guy on this team. Mostly because we were very young. It would have been great to have a guy like Ron M'Vouka, for example, for maturity and leadership. With the additions of Simon and Clark, and the likely addition of one or two 5th year kids, I'm hopeful that a couple of guys step up to provide the leadership that we were so sorely lacking this year.

No offense Monte as I think outside of your Mussini infatuation you are a good poster. HOWEVER, we are now wishing we had a Ron M'Vouka? When we had Ron M'Vouka we wished we had a Marcus Lovett. The problem is as a program we can't afford to just keep giving up on good players. I love Chris Mullin, but his job is to keep the kids he gets and to get them to play hard. Would rather Lovett stay and defend then go get lesser players who play hard but stink. Was easier to watch this year than last and everyone played hard last year.

Maybe one day we get to a point where we can afford to jettison talented players because we can replace them. But until that point the coaching staff has to do whatever it can to keep the few we have.

Your premise seems to be that Mullin is jettisoning Lovett which is silly. Lovett is leaving (IMO) because he wants to get paid to play, it's what happens when you recruit good players.

Nope. I was addressing the posters on these boards who casually think the talented kids we get are easily replaceable. Will be a big loss. To think otherwise is silly.

Fair enough, but "Maybe one day we get to a point where we can afford to jettison talented players" implies otherwise but it may just be my interpretation of the word jettison. I believe Mullin is doing what he can to keep Lovett but I also think LoVett's track record suggests he is a bit of a rolling stone. I believe he already has a next destination in mind, for the record, I was told that by a "friend" a few weeks ago in reference to a comment that he expects Lovett's play to "plateau" which may be true or may be a coincidence, I don't know. I hear a lot and some of it seems real and some complete BS.

Again doing from fan perspective. All those Lovett can be replaced with Simon were pretty dismissive of Lovett's talent. I wanted Simon to play with Lovett.
From my limited understanding of Lovett situation I do not blame Mullin at all. In fact I think hiding the benchings with coach decision was admirable and a good attempt to build good will with Lovett. Incredibly some posters actually believed benching 's were actually basketball decisions.

No I don't blame Mullin. But I also did not blame Lavin for Rysheed Jordan. We have to take chances to get those type of kids.Though interestingly Jordan when he played, played hard all the time.

My point in another post with you was while I understand the risks, if you can't get the kid to play the right way and buy in / stay around, then even though I understand, coach takes a hit for bringing the kid in. That is just the way it works.The idea is for these chances to pay off once in awhile. They never seem to for us.

 

[beast of the east]

Lovett is a fun player to watch and I don't see any problems with him on the court. The chemistry between him and Shamorie isn't great but could improve if he stays next season. I also think the attacks on Lovett and Ponds defense are unwarranted. We have a defense problem but a portion of that is a result of giving up so many offensive rebounds and having an inexperienced team.

As I have no idea who the fifth year players or transfers could be if Lovett leaves I don't know what kind of team we will have next season. Getting back to the NCAA's is really important to me.

Obviously building a longer term winning program is the goal but I don't see that without getting back to the NCAA's. The year after next our remaining marginal players will be seniors and Ponds and Simon will be juniors. We will have a donut hole in the sophomore column unless we get a transfer. This could be a long rebuild if it is one at all.

Lovett and Ponds are both poor defenders and one major reason we give up so many offensive rebounds is that the bigs are forever scrambling covering for them. Both are terrific offensive players but the road to the NCAAs and a consistent program is through the other end of the court.

I am not disagreeing with you totally as obviously defense is important. However our best team ever featured two terrible defenders as their best two players and maybe the best two players in the history of the program. Granted it looks worse when two small guards are indifferent defenders.

Basketball 101, man to man defense starts with the guards keeping the ball in front of them, ideally channeling them to where you want them to go; if you don't do that you don't have a defense. They are not our only problem at all but you have no chance of fixing anything when opposing guards consistently break the defense down and/or can take the ball wherever they want to go. I recognize both are young and I fully expect Ponds to improve immensely next season because I think he is a very smart player and committed to winning. I think he is a product of what he could get away with in high school/AAU more than anything else. Lovett may be the same but IMO that is a moot point; I believe he is gone and will be very surprised if he is back next year. For the record, I definitely hope I am wrong on that point.

I agree he has been bad defensively, but I would have liked to see Lovett with better players surrounding him. I think he would have been a much more complete and efficient player than he was this year.

Agree, but I think while ragged at times and inconsistent at times we have enough offense to have had a better year. Again, I am generally OK with the record but there were just too many games where we did not really compete, that bothers me (obviously!!)

Agree completely. I was never hung up on the record as the definitive measure of success or failure. Like you, I'm fine with the final record, although .500 would have felt so much better. I has basically hoping to see improvement over the course of the year. We showed flashes of improvement, but were never able to sustain anything. That's because of our lack of defense. Consistently hard defense will keep a team in most every game, but our D was non-existent many games. So if our offense wasn't working on all cylinders, we usually had no chance of winning. I said it before and I'll say it again, we did not have one single glue guy on this team. Mostly because we were very young. It would have been great to have a guy like Ron M'Vouka, for example, for maturity and leadership. With the additions of Simon and Clark, and the likely addition of one or two 5th year kids, I'm hopeful that a couple of guys steph up to provide the leadership that we were so sorely lacking this year.

No offense Monte as I think outside of your Mussini infatuation you are a good poster. HOWEVER, we are now wishing we had a Ron M'Vouka? When we had Ron M'Vouka we wished we had a Marcus Lovett. The problem is as a program we can't afford to just keep giving up on good players. I love Chris Mullin, but his job is to keep the kids he gets and to get them to play hard. Would rather Lovett stay and defend then go get lesser players who play hard but stink. Was easier to watch this year than last and everyone played hard last year.

Maybe one day we get to a point where we can afford to jettison talented players because we can replace them. But until that point the coaching staff has to do whatever it can to keep the few we have.

Your premise seems to be that Mullin is jettisoning Lovett which is silly. Lovett is leaving (IMO) because he wants to get paid to play, it's what happens when you recruit good players.

In fairness staff has probably engaged Marcus & his family in hopes of him staying. No pushing him out I sense. He's only a freshman, talented & well worth that effort. At end of day if he & family want to move on & earn $$, there is nothing much you can do about it.

One way to look at it all is that unless staying around a year or two more puts you in the NBA first round, which is unlikely for most kids since the first round is loaded with foreign players and one and dones, your bball career for most of these guys maxes out in their early 30s. The earlier you leave college and start making decent money, the longer your career is. Can't fault a kid who can make 75-100K and never saw that kind of money before. If it happens and it fulfills a dream of seeing the world, good for him I guess.

 

[beast of the east]

Lovett is a fun player to watch and I don't see any problems with him on the court. The chemistry between him and Shamorie isn't great but could improve if he stays next season. I also think the attacks on Lovett and Ponds defense are unwarranted. We have a defense problem but a portion of that is a result of giving up so many offensive rebounds and having an inexperienced team.

As I have no idea who the fifth year players or transfers could be if Lovett leaves I don't know what kind of team we will have next season. Getting back to the NCAA's is really important to me.

Obviously building a longer term winning program is the goal but I don't see that without getting back to the NCAA's. The year after next our remaining marginal players will be seniors and Ponds and Simon will be juniors. We will have a donut hole in the sophomore column unless we get a transfer. This could be a long rebuild if it is one at all.

Lovett and Ponds are both poor defenders and one major reason we give up so many offensive rebounds is that the bigs are forever scrambling covering for them. Both are terrific offensive players but the road to the NCAAs and a consistent program is through the other end of the court.

I am not disagreeing with you totally as obviously defense is important. However our best team ever featured two terrible defenders as their best two players and maybe the best two players in the history of the program. Granted it looks worse when two small guards are indifferent defenders.

Basketball 101, man to man defense starts with the guards keeping the ball in front of them, ideally channeling them to where you want them to go; if you don't do that you don't have a defense. They are not our only problem at all but you have no chance of fixing anything when opposing guards consistently break the defense down and/or can take the ball wherever they want to go. I recognize both are young and I fully expect Ponds to improve immensely next season because I think he is a very smart player and committed to winning. I think he is a product of what he could get away with in high school/AAU more than anything else. Lovett may be the same but IMO that is a moot point; I believe he is gone and will be very surprised if he is back next year. For the record, I definitely hope I am wrong on that point.

I agree he has been bad defensively, but I would have liked to see Lovett with better players surrounding him. I think he would have been a much more complete and efficient player than he was this year.

Agree, but I think while ragged at times and inconsistent at times we have enough offense to have had a better year. Again, I am generally OK with the record but there were just too many games where we did not really compete, that bothers me (obviously!!)

Agree completely. I was never hung up on the record as the definitive measure of success or failure. Like you, I'm fine with the final record, although .500 would have felt so much better. I has basically hoping to see improvement over the course of the year. We showed flashes of improvement, but were never able to sustain anything. That's because of our lack of defense. Consistently hard defense will keep a team in most every game, but our D was non-existent many games. So if our offense wasn't working on all cylinders, we usually had no chance of winning. I said it before and I'll say it again, we did not have one single glue guy on this team. Mostly because we were very young. It would have been great to have a guy like Ron M'Vouka, for example, for maturity and leadership. With the additions of Simon and Clark, and the likely addition of one or two 5th year kids, I'm hopeful that a couple of guys step up to provide the leadership that we were so sorely lacking this year.

No offense Monte as I think outside of your Mussini infatuation you are a good poster. HOWEVER, we are now wishing we had a Ron M'Vouka? When we had Ron M'Vouka we wished we had a Marcus Lovett. The problem is as a program we can't afford to just keep giving up on good players. I love Chris Mullin, but his job is to keep the kids he gets and to get them to play hard. Would rather Lovett stay and defend then go get lesser players who play hard but stink. Was easier to watch this year than last and everyone played hard last year.

Maybe one day we get to a point where we can afford to jettison talented players because we can replace them. But until that point the coaching staff has to do whatever it can to keep the few we have.

Of the many things that you've said that have offended me, this wasn't one of them. As Mike said below, I was talking about having a guy on the team that was mature and who could take a bit of a leadership roll, as Ron seemed to do when he was on the court. And I will clarify my feelings about Lovett once again: I do not want him to leave by any stretch of the imagination. At the same time, I do not want him back with drama. And rest assured we are not privy to all the behind the scenes drama that goes on with these kids, but there have been enough indicators with Marcus. We can take a huge step forward next year if the entire team comes back, and with the few new parts that we'll add. No one kid should be allowed to be bigger than the team. That's all I'm saying.

I don't think we can get Lovett type talented kids w/o baggage.

It's better than getting the baggage without the talent.

 

[monte]

Lovett is a fun player to watch and I don't see any problems with him on the court. The chemistry between him and Shamorie isn't great but could improve if he stays next season. I also think the attacks on Lovett and Ponds defense are unwarranted. We have a defense problem but a portion of that is a result of giving up so many offensive rebounds and having an inexperienced team.

As I have no idea who the fifth year players or transfers could be if Lovett leaves I don't know what kind of team we will have next season. Getting back to the NCAA's is really important to me.

Obviously building a longer term winning program is the goal but I don't see that without getting back to the NCAA's. The year after next our remaining marginal players will be seniors and Ponds and Simon will be juniors. We will have a donut hole in the sophomore column unless we get a transfer. This could be a long rebuild if it is one at all.

Lovett and Ponds are both poor defenders and one major reason we give up so many offensive rebounds is that the bigs are forever scrambling covering for them. Both are terrific offensive players but the road to the NCAAs and a consistent program is through the other end of the court.

I am not disagreeing with you totally as obviously defense is important. However our best team ever featured two terrible defenders as their best two players and maybe the best two players in the history of the program. Granted it looks worse when two small guards are indifferent defenders.

Basketball 101, man to man defense starts with the guards keeping the ball in front of them, ideally channeling them to where you want them to go; if you don't do that you don't have a defense. They are not our only problem at all but you have no chance of fixing anything when opposing guards consistently break the defense down and/or can take the ball wherever they want to go. I recognize both are young and I fully expect Ponds to improve immensely next season because I think he is a very smart player and committed to winning. I think he is a product of what he could get away with in high school/AAU more than anything else. Lovett may be the same but IMO that is a moot point; I believe he is gone and will be very surprised if he is back next year. For the record, I definitely hope I am wrong on that point.

I agree he has been bad defensively, but I would have liked to see Lovett with better players surrounding him. I think he would have been a much more complete and efficient player than he was this year.

Agree, but I think while ragged at times and inconsistent at times we have enough offense to have had a better year. Again, I am generally OK with the record but there were just too many games where we did not really compete, that bothers me (obviously!!)

Agree completely. I was never hung up on the record as the definitive measure of success or failure. Like you, I'm fine with the final record, although .500 would have felt so much better. I has basically hoping to see improvement over the course of the year. We showed flashes of improvement, but were never able to sustain anything. That's because of our lack of defense. Consistently hard defense will keep a team in most every game, but our D was non-existent many games. So if our offense wasn't working on all cylinders, we usually had no chance of winning. I said it before and I'll say it again, we did not have one single glue guy on this team. Mostly because we were very young. It would have been great to have a guy like Ron M'Vouka, for example, for maturity and leadership. With the additions of Simon and Clark, and the likely addition of one or two 5th year kids, I'm hopeful that a couple of guys step up to provide the leadership that we were so sorely lacking this year.

No offense Monte as I think outside of your Mussini infatuation you are a good poster. HOWEVER, we are now wishing we had a Ron M'Vouka? When we had Ron M'Vouka we wished we had a Marcus Lovett. The problem is as a program we can't afford to just keep giving up on good players. I love Chris Mullin, but his job is to keep the kids he gets and to get them to play hard. Would rather Lovett stay and defend then go get lesser players who play hard but stink. Was easier to watch this year than last and everyone played hard last year.

Maybe one day we get to a point where we can afford to jettison talented players because we can replace them. But until that point the coaching staff has to do whatever it can to keep the few we have.

Of the many things that you've said that have offended me, this wasn't one of them. As Mike said below, I was talking about having a guy on the team that was mature and who could take a bit of a leadership roll, as Ron seemed to do when he was on the court. And I will clarify my feelings about Lovett once again: I do not want him to leave by any stretch of the imagination. At the same time, I do not want him back with drama. And rest assured we are not privy to all the behind the scenes drama that goes on with these kids, but there have been enough indicators with Marcus. We can take a huge step forward next year if the entire team comes back, and with the few new parts that we'll add. No one kid should be allowed to be bigger than the team. That's all I'm saying.

I don't think we can get Lovett type talented kids w/o baggage.

Ponds has immense talent and upside, with zero baggage that we've seen. We got him and we'll get others, to think otherwise would be just plain silly.

 

[paultzman]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

 

[Class of 72]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

[/quote]

 

[logen]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

[/quote]

Look at how long it took some of the best coaches in the business to turn around programs light years ahead of what these guys inherited. And counting the 1st year is the very epitome of bullshit.

 

[L J S A]

Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

I think the kleptomania is a bigger issue. I don't care where our big man sits on the gender spectrum as long as he can catch a pass from Ponds (and hopefully Lovett).

 

[redmannorth]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

[/quote]

Who pissed in your corn flakes today ?
Come on 72 unless you are best buddies with Lavin or Slice I didn't know you have an axe to grind with the staff.
Year 1 they had to field a team. Did you forget the current staff was left with a grand total of 3 bench warmers ?
Year 2 four of the players from year 1 graduated. I don't know how you didn't see the huge improvement from 1 Big East win to 7 ?
Could things have been better sure they could have but there was huge improvement from last season.
Just too bad you aren't able to give this staff a fair chance.

 

[salty dog]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

Who pissed in your corn flakes today ?
Come on 72 unless you are best buddies with Lavin or Slice I didn't know you have an axe to grind with the staff.
Year 1 they had to field a team. Did you forget the current staff was left with a grand total of 3 bench warmers ?
Year 2 four of the players from year 1 graduated. I don't know how you didn't see the huge improvement from 1 Big East win to 7 ?
Could things have been better sure they could have but there was huge improvement from last season.
Just too bad you aren't able to give this staff a fair chance.[/quote]

How many years do you give to a winning record?

 

[Class of 72]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

Look at how long it took some of the best coaches in the business to turn around programs light years ahead of what these guys inherited. And counting the 1st year is the very epitome of bullshit.[/quote]

We can spin the first year all we want but it still counts in the record. It was a throw away year but we still paid over 3 million $ in coaching salaries and they cashed the checks. Not bad for a group that never coached a game of college basketball.
The only comparison would be our hiring Norm Roberts on the cheap and any similarities to Norm by year three would be abject failure. Norm coached during the height of the Big East with competitors that included Uconn, Syracuse, Louisville, WV, Cinncy, Pitt etc.
The Slice drama, the Brown caper, the Lovett drama, does not contribute to stability.
We are involved with a ton of recruits. Time for fans to collect dividends.
I have an issue with Matt emphasizing "gradual" improvement as if to hedge his bets.
Like Trump, minimize the Twitter bull and just get the job done.

 

[monte]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

Look at how long it took some of the best coaches in the business to turn around programs light years ahead of what these guys inherited. And counting the 1st year is the very epitome of bullshit.

We can spin the first year all we want but it still counts in the record. It was a throw away year but we still paid over 3 million $ in coaching salaries and they cashed the checks. Not bad for a group that never coached a game of college basketball.
The only comparison would be our hiring Norm Roberts on the cheap and any similarities to Norm by year three would be abject failure. Norm coached during the height of the Big East with competitors that included Uconn, Syracuse, Louisville, WV, Cinncy, Pitt etc.
The Slice drama, the Brown caper, the Lovett drama, does not contribute to stability.
We are involved with a ton of recruits. Time for fans to collect dividends.
I have an issue with Matt emphasizing "gradual" improvement as if to hedge his bets.
Like Trump, minimize the Twitter bull and just get the job done.[/quote]

He also said "meaningful selection Sunday 2018". I'll take that to mean that he expects to hear our name called a year from today, which would be significant improvement in 3 years.

 

[Class of 72]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

Who pissed in your corn flakes today ?
Come on 72 unless you are best buddies with Lavin or Slice I didn't know you have an axe to grind with the staff.
Year 1 they had to field a team. Did you forget the current staff was left with a grand total of 3 bench warmers ?
Year 2 four of the players from year 1 graduated. I don't know how you didn't see the huge improvement from 1 Big East win to 7 ?
Could things have been better sure they could have but there was huge improvement from last season.
Just too bad you aren't able to give this staff a fair chance.[/quote]

Me, you and everyone else here have no choice but to support our coaches. My issue is with Matt and his Twitter understatement. We all know that it is a gradual process since we are not Kentucky, Duke or UCLA. Three straight years of not going to post season would be cause for termination at those schools. My emphasis is St. John's CANNOT have three straight years of losing records to maintain any degree of revelance in recruiting. Local kids want to go to winners and if the reality of being losers becomes a common perception then we are not going to win any recruiting battles.
If you recall in Lav's final season, I speculated that even if Lavin went to his 4th consecutive post season (NCAA) but failed to sign the impact players he was pursuing that I thought he would be fired. That is exactly what happened.
For St. John's to have any chances with the Luther Mohammeds of the world we need a winning record next year. Period. The End. I, and others here, think if an effective 5th player becomes available, we need a full court press. If Lovett leaves and Williams moves on, Matt and staff can't use a 365 day model. They need a 90 day model with real contributors.
I admit the Slice and Brown fiascos have left a poor impression on me.
The absolute lack of defensive strategy and lack of defensive emphasis has also pissed me off, along with the piss in my cornflakes.
Our similarities to DePaul while paying premium salaries is also disturbing.
Our motto should be "No more excuses" and not "Trust the Process".
We should be better next year but not by waiting for Yakwe, Ellison or Owens to have talent epiphanies.
This year we were lucky that two local players (Ponds and Ahmed ) wanted to play in front of family. Without them this season would have been a complete disaster.
The time for gradual increments is over. Get impact players or change direction.

 

[JohnnyFan]

I respectfully request no further "quotes" of this post, as I have had my fill of seeing that creepy guy in the tutu.

Thank you,
Management

 

[mjmaherjr]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

Who pissed in your corn flakes today ?
Come on 72 unless you are best buddies with Lavin or Slice I didn't know you have an axe to grind with the staff.
Year 1 they had to field a team. Did you forget the current staff was left with a grand total of 3 bench warmers ?
Year 2 four of the players from year 1 graduated. I don't know how you didn't see the huge improvement from 1 Big East win to 7 ?
Could things have been better sure they could have but there was huge improvement from last season.
Just too bad you aren't able to give this staff a fair chance.

Me, you and everyone else here have no choice but to support our coaches. My issue is with Matt and his Twitter understatement. We all know that it is a gradual process since we are not Kentucky, Duke or UCLA. Three straight years of not going to post season would be cause for termination at those schools. My emphasis is St. John's CANNOT have three straight years of losing records to maintain any degree of revelance in recruiting. Local kids want to go to winners and if the reality of being losers becomes a common perception then we are not going to win any recruiting battles.
If you recall in Lav's final season, I speculated that even if Lavin went to his 4th consecutive post season (NCAA) but failed to sign the impact players he was pursuing that I thought he would be fired. That is exactly what happened.
For St. John's to have any chances with the Luther Mohammeds of the world we need a winning record next year. Period. The End. I, and others here, think if an effective 5th player becomes available, we need a full court press. If Lovett leaves and Williams moves on, Matt and staff can't use a 365 day model. They need a 90 day model with real contributors.
I admit the Slice and Brown fiascos have left a poor impression on me.
The absolute lack of defensive strategy and lack of defensive emphasis has also pissed me off, along with the piss in my cornflakes.
Our similarities to DePaul while paying premium salaries is also disturbing.
Our motto should be "No more excuses" and not "Trust the Process".
We should be better next year but not by waiting for Yakwe, Ellison or Owens to have talent epiphanies.
This year we were lucky that two local players (Ponds and Ahmed ) wanted to play in front of family. Without them this season would have been a complete disaster.
The time for gradual increments is over. Get impact players or change direction.[/quote]


[attachment]tumblr_inline_mko23s7qg81qz4rgp.jpg[/attachment]

 

[usguard]

Matt Abdelmassih‏ @mabde33

365 days to make gradual improvement to have a meaningful
#selectionsunday2018

I don't think 365 days and gradual improvement would have been acceptable at Iowa State and after the 3rd year we at St. John's better see a dramatic improvement in year three.
I don't care if he and Mully are home boys but 3 losing seasons would be gradual bullshit.
Go sign a big man or grad transfer that doesn't wear makeup and a tutu.

Who pissed in your corn flakes today ?
Come on 72 unless you are best buddies with Lavin or Slice I didn't know you have an axe to grind with the staff.
Year 1 they had to field a team. Did you forget the current staff was left with a grand total of 3 bench warmers ?
Year 2 four of the players from year 1 graduated. I don't know how you didn't see the huge improvement from 1 Big East win to 7 ?
Could things have been better sure they could have but there was huge improvement from last season.
Just too bad you aren't able to give this staff a fair chance.

Me, you and everyone else here have no choice but to support our coaches. My issue is with Matt and his Twitter understatement. We all know that it is a gradual process since we are not Kentucky, Duke or UCLA. Three straight years of not going to post season would be cause for termination at those schools. My emphasis is St. John's CANNOT have three straight years of losing records to maintain any degree of revelance in recruiting. Local kids want to go to winners and if the reality of being losers becomes a common perception then we are not going to win any recruiting battles.
If you recall in Lav's final season, I speculated that even if Lavin went to his 4th consecutive post season (NCAA) but failed to sign the impact players he was pursuing that I thought he would be fired. That is exactly what happened.
For St. John's to have any chances with the Luther Mohammeds of the world we need a winning record next year. Period. The End. I, and others here, think if an effective 5th player becomes available, we need a full court press. If Lovett leaves and Williams moves on, Matt and staff can't use a 365 day model. They need a 90 day model with real contributors.
I admit the Slice and Brown fiascos have left a poor impression on me.
The absolute lack of defensive strategy and lack of defensive emphasis has also pissed me off, along with the piss in my cornflakes.
Our similarities to DePaul while paying premium salaries is also disturbing.
Our motto should be "No more excuses" and not "Trust the Process".
We should be better next year but not by waiting for Yakwe, Ellison or Owens to have talent epiphanies.
This year we were lucky that two local players (Ponds and Ahmed ) wanted to play in front of family. Without them this season would have been a complete disaster.
The time for gradual increments is over. Get impact players or change direction.[/quote]

I'm leaning in your direction