LoVett Future

Amazing to me the number of posters here arrogant enough to tell another person what is best for them. Crazy
Click to expand...

Kind of like the arrogance of telling an NBA player that 60% of them will be bankrupt within 5 years of ending their playing careers.

Bad decisions are bad decisions. Just about every single D1 player can play professionally somewhere in the world when they leave college, even after year 2, 3, or 4. Just about every D1 player will not play in the NBA or get rich playing overseas. Just about every D1 player with a degree will have higher career earning potential than those with no college. Just about everyone who ever made 100,000 knows its not a ton of money that will last a long time.

But hey, that's just me. You have an awful lot to say that's negative about everything that gets posted here. You criticize what people can and can't talk about, and most of your posts are self aggrandizing - you see things better. no one else can post an opinion because no one has a right to predict how a team will do because you will wait and see. No one can criticize Mullin because they aren't coaches. No one can speak about what a player can or can't do with their lives.

But you can call our players lazy defenders, and claim they aren't playing hard. Why, because well, you know better. You are so damned tedious.
Click to expand...

Hey, you can post whatever you want, I don't think I ever said a word about what anyone can say or can't say, I just said it is amazing to me that people can be arrogant enough to tell another person what is best for them. But look, in you, I understand I am dealing with a person who can dissect another person's motivations, thought processes, and mindsets all from afar amidst a crowd of thousands all while watching every nuance of one of the worlds fastest moving games. At least I comment on what I SEE, right or wrong, not WHY someone I don't know does what he does or even more so, WHAT they should do. You have to admit though, even though I may be tedious I sure can get under your skin easy enough, even when I don't directly address you. But hey, that's because at the end of the day I just know better.
 
I didn't mean to say that you said it was a no brainer. I was saying that a lot of what you say is legitimate and I agree with it especially when kids are going into massive debt to pay for college. It is like the modern version of indentured servitude to the government since not even bankruptcy is an option. I had this extended discussion a few years ago with a nephew who was hemming and hawing about going to a state school. For me going to college was a "no-brainer" but after he laid out all of the issues especially the debt - even for this highly regarded UC school and doing about two years of coursework at a Junior College, I saw that what he was saying was legitimate even at a state school for only 2 years he would accrue a ridiculous amount of debt.

So on the surface it is almost indisputable. But flesh it out a little more and the other argument is valid too then factor in being on scholarship R&B and the other benefits and college has a much stronger argument. Factor in how you might grow as a person and develop more tools for dealing with financial success even if just a few more years of maturity and there is that too. In both cases maturity is important. The other thing about this talk of "best earning years" kind of goes out the window for professional athletes when you factor in how poorly they do financially when their careers are over. I mentioned this before. Way more than half end up bankrupt within two years of retiring or being cut. The NFL it is over 80% within the first 2 years.
Click to expand...

I understand the financial argument (that lots of athletes end up broke) but that doesn't to me seem dispositive. Lots of lottery winners have financial issues too, but I'd still rather win the lottery. Nicholas Cage is broke and so is Johnny Depp, but think of all the fun they had getting there.

There's no doubt that a college education has value - for some people. There's no doubt that the value of education, by which I mean learning, as opposed to simply getting a degree - to call back to a point well made by Boo Harvey - is ignored in certain communities, to the detriment of those communities.

And it's also true that the college athletic system exploits athletes. In no other area of study are students prohibited from practicing their course of study for money. Music majors play in bands for money and are better for the experience. Artists paint. Math majors tutor, English majors write. Only [strike]athletes[/strike] student athletes cannot use the skills they've honed over countless hours of had work to improve their social and financial situations. As cynical as I am I don't know that I could have thought of such a system. Okay I probably could have, but I'm something of an evil genius.

But this to me is the fundamental question: if Marcus Lovett wants to be a professional basketball player, when if not now is the best time to be one? Personally I think one more year in college might help him - assuming a normal trajectory and that he doesn't get hurt and that he maintains his academic standing and stops doing the things he evidently does that end up with him sitting on the bench when the game starts. But if a professional BB player is what he wants to be waiting until he's 25 to be one is self defeating. He can always go to college. But he won't always be able to be the thing that he's evidently dreamed of being for much of his life. If being a professional BB player is for him a mistake, how does it help him to postpone making it until he's a couple of years older, when he has a couple fewer years to recover from it. I just don't see how it does. As usual, YMMV.
 
Two points for LoVett to consider in his decision;
1 Will another year at SJU make getting a degree possible with a reasonable amount of future work
2 Will another year at SJU give him even a small shot at being drafted by an NBA team next year
If the answer to both is no then he has to decide if the money this year is worth leaving for
Click to expand...

You are leaving out the risk, as in, if he stays is there a risk he gets hurt while playing for nothing and does not get a contract offer from anyone next year. That is something he has to weigh as well.

And for anyone who thinks 75k-100k per year is nothing, by all means pm me and I will give you my address so you can mail me the check.
Click to expand...
That's far above the average salary.
Click to expand...

It's actually not, it's pretty much spot on as far as I can tell from cursory internet research. Between 65 and 100K is the average and the top end is three million.
 
Amazing to me the number of posters here arrogant enough to tell another person what is best for them. Crazy
Click to expand...

Kind of like the arrogance of telling an NBA player that 60% of them will be bankrupt within 5 years of ending their playing careers.

Bad decisions are bad decisions. Just about every single D1 player can play professionally somewhere in the world when they leave college, even after year 2, 3, or 4. Just about every D1 player will not play in the NBA or get rich playing overseas. Just about every D1 player with a degree will have higher career earning potential than those with no college. Just about everyone who ever made 100,000 knows its not a ton of money that will last a long time.

But hey, that's just me. You have an awful lot to say that's negative about everything that gets posted here. You criticize what people can and can't talk about, and most of your posts are self aggrandizing - you see things better. no one else can post an opinion because no one has a right to predict how a team will do because you will wait and see. No one can criticize Mullin because they aren't coaches. No one can speak about what a player can or can't do with their lives.

But you can call our players lazy defenders, and claim they aren't playing hard. Why, because well, you know better. You are so damned tedious.
Click to expand...

Hey, you can post whatever you want, I don't think I ever said a word about what anyone can say or can't say, I just said it is amazing to me that people can be arrogant enough to tell another person what is best for them. But look, in you, I understand I am dealing with a person who can dissect another person's motivations, thought processes, and mindsets all from afar amidst a crowd of thousands all while watching every nuance of one of the worlds fastest moving games. At least I comment on what I SEE, right or wrong, not WHY someone I don't know does what he does or even more so, WHAT they should do. You have to admit though, even though I may be tedious I sure can get under your skin easy enough, even when I don't directly address you. But hey, that's because at the end of the day I just know better.
Click to expand...

And seriously, for the record, I was not addressing you directly at all with my post and my above post is just busting your chops like you did mine. I was merely reflecting on an entire thread of posts pointing out the downside to a young man possibly leaving school to make money when none of us know his situation, his desires, how he views his future. Maybe he decided he doesn't love basketball but views it as a way to see the world while getting paid. Maybe he hates school, maybe he just wants to focus on basketball without the added burden of college work. Maybe he hates New York, maybe he stays, maybe, maybe, maybe. Sorry, I am a diehard SJU fan like almost all here but LoVett needs to make the best decision for him not a bunch of maniacal fans starving for a winner. And to address one of your posts directly, maybe he doesn't care a twit what happened to Paige and Arcidiacono because he is not living their lives, he is living his.
 
Marcus Lovett turned 21 on March 4, 2017. If I was involved with him, I would suggest that he spend one more year in school, which I think he is leaning towards doing.

People are speculating on how much money he would make once he gets his degree. Do you have any idea what his major is? Other than basketball, do you have any idea what his interests are? If not, how can you presume what is best for him.

Playing overseas, he can make around $80,000.00 next year. You also are given an apartment and a car. The only expense you have are your personal needs. Whatever team you sign with overseas pays your agent's fee so the money is all yours. There are some drawbacks, you are on your own in a foreign country where you are not catered to the same as in college. Teams in Europe demand professionalism, you are expected to be at practice and work hard. Then there is the matter of payment, some teams in Europe do not pay on time, others don't pay you at all if you are not playing up to expectations. However, if you succeed overseas, you will eventually be compensated very well. Some players make over 100,000.00 a month.

It is amazing to hear grown men talking about what is best for someone they don't even know. I guess some think that being on Redmen.com makes them infallible.
 
And it's also true that the college athletic system exploits athletes. In no other area of study are students prohibited from practicing their course of study for money. Music majors play in bands for money and are better for the experience. Artists paint. Math majors tutor, English majors write. Only [strike]athletes[/strike] student athletes cannot use the skills they've honed over countless hours of had work to improve their social and financial situations. As cynical as I am I don't know that I could have thought of such a system. Okay I probably could have, but I'm something of an evil genius.
Click to expand...

Good point.
 
I think you guys are making this far to complicated. The only calculation for Lovett should be this: He wants to play in the NBA. That is his far and away first career choice. The best shot at that is to return for another year. If after returning he is only a euroleague player then he will simply be where he would have been only a year later. He loses absolutely nothing by staying 12 more months but risks losing everything by bolting prematurely.
 
Amazing to me the number of posters here arrogant enough to tell another person what is best for them. Crazy
Click to expand...

Kind of like the arrogance of telling an NBA player that 60% of them will be bankrupt within 5 years of ending their playing careers.

Bad decisions are bad decisions. Just about every single D1 player can play professionally somewhere in the world when they leave college, even after year 2, 3, or 4. Just about every D1 player will not play in the NBA or get rich playing overseas. Just about every D1 player with a degree will have higher career earning potential than those with no college. Just about everyone who ever made 100,000 knows its not a ton of money that will last a long time.

But hey, that's just me. You have an awful lot to say that's negative about everything that gets posted here. You criticize what people can and can't talk about, and most of your posts are self aggrandizing - you see things better. no one else can post an opinion because no one has a right to predict how a team will do because you will wait and see. No one can criticize Mullin because they aren't coaches. No one can speak about what a player can or can't do with their lives.

But you can call our players lazy defenders, and claim they aren't playing hard. Why, because well, you know better. You are so damned tedious.
Click to expand...

Hey, you can post whatever you want, I don't think I ever said a word about what anyone can say or can't say, I just said it is amazing to me that people can be arrogant enough to tell another person what is best for them. But look, in you, I understand I am dealing with a person who can dissect another person's motivations, thought processes, and mindsets all from afar amidst a crowd of thousands all while watching every nuance of one of the worlds fastest moving games. At least I comment on what I SEE, right or wrong, not WHY someone I don't know does what he does or even more so, WHAT they should do. You have to admit though, even though I may be tedious I sure can get under your skin easy enough, even when I don't directly address you. But hey, that's because at the end of the day I just know better.
Click to expand...

And seriously, for the record, I was not addressing you directly at all with my post and my above post is just busting your chops like you did mine. I was merely reflecting on an entire thread of posts pointing out the downside to a young man possibly leaving school to make money when none of us know his situation, his desires, how he views his future. Maybe he decided he doesn't love basketball but views it as a way to see the world while getting paid. Maybe he hates school, maybe he just wants to focus on basketball without the added burden of college work. Maybe he hates New York, maybe he stays, maybe, maybe, maybe. Sorry, I am a diehard SJU fan like almost all here but LoVett needs to make the best decision for him not a bunch of maniacal fans starving for a winner. And to address one of your posts directly, maybe he doesn't care a twit what happened to Paige and Arcidiacono because he is not living their lives, he is living his.
Click to expand...

I hope you didn't take personal offense. I'm just very old and cranky.

Nearly all young men playing college basketball (and a lot of women) harbor dreams of playing professionally in the NBA (or WNBA). It clouds rational decisions, and while a college degree is not for everyone, and often not for basketball players with no focus on academics, a college degree can affect a kid's life for the good.

I remember speaking to D'Angelo Harrison's grandmother, and told he how impressed I was with her grandson's ability to deliver well thought out, not run of the mill responses in interviews. She responded, "D'Angelo could always speak very well, since he was a little boy. He knows the future for him isn't in the NBA, but he'd like to be an announcer when he finally stops playing". With that focus, Harrison graduated on time and left SJU with a degree in hand.

To me, I am as impressed with that as much as anything he did on the court, including reeling in the temper that nearly derailed his college experience. I'd hope that all of our kids placed as high a value on the opportunity to get an education free, I know college is not for everyone, and a kid from the projects may salivate at the thought of nailing down more money per year than anyone in his family makes. While I'd advise any kid who can get an NBA contract to leave early and take the money, to play overseas and forfeit a college degree at a much lower salary may cause regrets later. Certainly even coaching in HS may then be out of the question.
 
I think you are making things far too simple. Hundreds of kids want to play in the NBA. Lovett has only a slightly better chance than 99% of them and a lot smaller chance than the remaining 1%. Who is to say he doesn't realize it's a long shot and he just wants to get paid? Or maybe he just wants to stay to get better even if he doesn't get to the NBA?
 
The problem is that he can afford to not have a degree if he plays a decade or more in the NBA. A decade or more in Europe and he still needs to get a job afterward. And that job wouldn't be related to college ball because schools usually want their assistants to have a degree.
 
The problem is that he can afford to not have a degree if he plays a decade or more in the NBA. A decade or more in Europe and he still needs to get a job afterward. And that job wouldn't be related to college ball because schools usually want their assistants to have a degree.
Click to expand...

Well one can always go back to school and finish their degree when their playing career is over or study remotely or in the off season as well. A player's career is going to end when it ends regardless of when it starts so the earlier it starts the more that player will earn. As long as the value of the contract and the savings potential are greater than the money that will be need to be spent to finish studies later they are fine.Think of them like computer prodigies. Many of them aren't bothering finishing school either and leaving for big money as soon as they can.
 
I think you guys are making this far to complicated. The only calculation for Lovett should be this: He wants to play in the NBA. That is his far and away first career choice. The best shot at that is to return for another year. If after returning he is only a euroleague player then he will simply be where he would have been only a year later. He loses absolutely nothing by staying 12 more months but risks losing everything by bolting prematurely.
Click to expand...

Except for Omar Cook, most St. John's basketball players that went overseas did so after 4 years of college. From our most recent players such as D'Angelo Harrison and Phil Greene to Walter Berry and Tyrone Grant, they all did very well for quite a few years. Like Omar, Marcus Lovett is undersized and talented but would have zero to lose if he stayed an additional season to improve his game and get more publicity on a presumed better and more succesful team.
The publicity and additional experience may be worth more than $90,000, should he command that amount. One more year for NBA scouts to evaluate his game. Most American players that go to Europe are over 23 when they start their careers there. Twenty-one is still young for Europe. Marcus appears to be a great teammate, loves the game and has talent. Unlike Yankuba Sima and Yakwe, he doesn't sulk when sitting on the bench. Every coach loves a player like that and to quote a paesan of mine who coached someone I know, Geno Auriemma once said
"When I look at my team, they know this. When I watch game film, I’m checking what’s going on on the bench. If somebody’s asleep over there, somebody doesn’t care, somebody’s not engaged in the game, they will never get in the game. Ever. And they know that. They know I’m not kiddin’.”
 
The problem is that he can afford to not have a degree if he plays a decade or more in the NBA. A decade or more in Europe and he still needs to get a job afterward. And that job wouldn't be related to college ball because schools usually want their assistants to have a degree.
Click to expand...

Well one can always go back to school and finish their degree when their playing career is over or study remotely or in the off season as well. A player's career is going to end when it ends regardless of when it starts so the earlier it starts the more that player will earn. As long as the value of the contract and the savings potential are greater than the money that will be need to be spent to finish studies later they are fine.Think of them like computer prodigies. Many of them aren't bothering finishing school either and leaving for big money as soon as they can.
Click to expand...

Your analogy would hold water if you were referring to 5 star players who are 19 years old and have to suffer John Calamari's lousy coaching for a year. A 3 or 4 star player needs development and maturity to try and reach that level. There are many computer prodigies because it's all brains over brawn. Basketball requires more muscle than coding and sitting on your sofa in shorts and medium tee shirts.
Marcus Lovett is not ready to compete against men. Sorry Panther but the money we are talking about for one year in D league or Sweden is not a deal breaker for leaving college early.
 
The problem is that he can afford to not have a degree if he plays a decade or more in the NBA. A decade or more in Europe and he still needs to get a job afterward. And that job wouldn't be related to college ball because schools usually want their assistants to have a degree.
Click to expand...

Well one can always go back to school and finish their degree when their playing career is over or study remotely or in the off season as well. A player's career is going to end when it ends regardless of when it starts so the earlier it starts the more that player will earn. As long as the value of the contract and the savings potential are greater than the money that will be need to be spent to finish studies later they are fine.Think of them like computer prodigies. Many of them aren't bothering finishing school either and leaving for big money as soon as they can.
Click to expand...

Your analogy would hold water if you were referring to 5 star players who are 19 years old and have to suffer John Calamari's lousy coaching for a year. A 3 or 4 star player needs development and maturity to try and reach that level. There are many computer prodigies because it's all brains over brawn. Basketball requires more muscle than coding and sitting on your sofa in shorts and medium tee shirts.
Marcus Lovett is not ready to compete against men. Sorry Panther but the money we are talking about for one year in D league or Sweden is not a deal breaker for leaving college early.
Click to expand...

It also doesn't hold water because it isn't real. There are very few "computer prodigies" which I assume means coders, that actually make elite money. Probably less by percentage than NBA basketball players. Bill Gates famously quit Harvard but he also had a rich father to fall back on and the competition is exponentially tougher today than it was 40 years ago not to mention that the VC pretty much take all of the money from the big splash startups and prey on young "geniuses" who much like NCAA athletes, end up living like monks for a few years hoping to make a big score that almost never happens even if they are strung along with some series A through B funding. If there is ever an actual big score, the VC guys are the ones that make out, not the founders. There are a handful of other guys who left school and were extremely successful. Everything else is pure PR smoke.
 
The problem is that he can afford to not have a degree if he plays a decade or more in the NBA. A decade or more in Europe and he still needs to get a job afterward. And that job wouldn't be related to college ball because schools usually want their assistants to have a degree.
Click to expand...

Well one can always go back to school and finish their degree when their playing career is over or study remotely or in the off season as well. A player's career is going to end when it ends regardless of when it starts so the earlier it starts the more that player will earn. As long as the value of the contract and the savings potential are greater than the money that will be need to be spent to finish studies later they are fine.Think of them like computer prodigies. Many of them aren't bothering finishing school either and leaving for big money as soon as they can.
Click to expand...

Your analogy would hold water if you were referring to 5 star players who are 19 years old and have to suffer John Calamari's lousy coaching for a year. A 3 or 4 star player needs development and maturity to try and reach that level. There are many computer prodigies because it's all brains over brawn. Basketball requires more muscle than coding and sitting on your sofa in shorts and medium tee shirts.
Marcus Lovett is not ready to compete against men. Sorry Panther but the money we are talking about for one year in D league or Sweden is not a deal breaker for leaving college early.
Click to expand...

It also doesn't hold water because it isn't real. There are very few "computer prodigies" which I assume means coders, that actually make elite money. Probably less by percentage than NBA basketball players. Bill Gates famously quit Harvard but he also had a rich father to fall back on and the competition is exponentially tougher today than it was 40 years ago not to mention that the VC pretty much take all of the money from the big splash startups and prey on young "geniuses" who much like NCAA athletes, end up living like monks for a few years hoping to make a big score that almost never happens even if they are strung along with some series A through B funding. If there is ever an actual big score, the VC guys are the ones that make out, not the founders. There are a handful of other guys who left school and were extremely successful. Everything else is pure PR smoke.
Click to expand...

Basketball, high tech...
Taking it into a third arena, creative writing, John Steinbeck left Stanford, William Faulkner left U Mississippi, Stephen Crane left Syracuse...small minority leaving college who actually flourish...

Stay Marcus, don't go, please stay ( for everyone's sake) if we got on our knees and begged you to stay ( Drifters)
I think you will :)

W.T. Sherman
 
The problem is that he can afford to not have a degree if he plays a decade or more in the NBA. A decade or more in Europe and he still needs to get a job afterward. And that job wouldn't be related to college ball because schools usually want their assistants to have a degree.
Click to expand...

Well one can always go back to school and finish their degree when their playing career is over or study remotely or in the off season as well. A player's career is going to end when it ends regardless of when it starts so the earlier it starts the more that player will earn. As long as the value of the contract and the savings potential are greater than the money that will be need to be spent to finish studies later they are fine.Think of them like computer prodigies. Many of them aren't bothering finishing school either and leaving for big money as soon as they can.
Click to expand...

Your analogy would hold water if you were referring to 5 star players who are 19 years old and have to suffer John Calamari's lousy coaching for a year. A 3 or 4 star player needs development and maturity to try and reach that level. There are many computer prodigies because it's all brains over brawn. Basketball requires more muscle than coding and sitting on your sofa in shorts and medium tee shirts.
Marcus Lovett is not ready to compete against men. Sorry Panther but the money we are talking about for one year in D league or Sweden is not a deal breaker for leaving college early.
Click to expand...

It also doesn't hold water because it isn't real. There are very few "computer prodigies" which I assume means coders, that actually make elite money. Probably less by percentage than NBA basketball players. Bill Gates famously quit Harvard but he also had a rich father to fall back on and the competition is exponentially tougher today than it was 40 years ago not to mention that the VC pretty much take all of the money from the big splash startups and prey on young "geniuses" who much like NCAA athletes, end up living like monks for a few years hoping to make a big score that almost never happens even if they are strung along with some series A through B funding. If there is ever an actual big score, the VC guys are the ones that make out, not the founders. There are a handful of other guys who left school and were extremely successful. Everything else is pure PR smoke.
Click to expand...

I defer to you on all things related to computer science.
I envy an occupation that allows you to work almost anywhere outside of the 9-5 grind.
Many people here on redmen.com don't know that you were an early pioneer of mobile computing.
I dug up an old picture of you with a prototype of a portable mobile device.

URL]
[/quote]
 
Lets assume Lovett comes back next year. Is there anything to prevent a European team from offering him a nice contract next Dec or Jan, for instance, and him jumping at it then? Just wondering what restrictions, if any, there are for this type of situation in season.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top