Lavin's Body Of Work At SJU

[Section3]

I'd like to hear some posters' theories about Lavin. Do you think he was always lazy, and simply busted his butt the first year so he could coast the rest of the contract? Or did something change with him, possibly after the cancer? Is he not actually lazy, but just doesn't care enough about local players? Or something else entirely?

I think he busted his ass the first year up to the point he got cancer. I think he tried to come back to early and it fucked him up. I think other teams totally took advantage of that recruiting. I think he lost his right hand man to the nba coaching and maybe too much self confidence hurt him in replacing dunlap. I think Lavin had too much self confidence and thought basically he would pick up recruit wise how he left off but got out hustled for guys. I won't say lazy because I don't know what happens day to day. i think he thought last year he thought the team would be real good and didn't anticipate sucking.

Let me say one thing while admittedly I don't know what goes in day to day and whether he is doing enough work ( the numbers speak for themselves ) I will say I don't blame him for his sunday routine which people malign him for because we'd all BS to say he should work 24/7 the reality is not one person here does and god knows my own career isn't healthy and is the cause of my own sleep problems because I am always thinking about the markets and different scenarios and quite honestly it;s way too unhealthy for me so if he finds balance by spending sundays doing yoga or spending time with his wife then I fully support that.

But the bottom line is results and thats what he is getting paid for no matter how much of a good guy he is.

I hope we turn it around or it better be a monster class coming in next year

Right w/you MJ...and want to emphasize a subtle point that you made...I think his pride (perhaps a determination to debunk the general perception of his X & O acumen) stands in the way of him letting the X&O guy (presumably Whitesell) do his job...I, too, am not privvy to what goes on in practice but it does seem like Whitesell takes a backseat during games...

Old adage is a good manager hires smart (if not smarter) people, let's them do their thing and holds them accountable...

 

[beast of the east]

I'd like to hear some posters' theories about Lavin. Do you think he was always lazy, and simply busted his butt the first year so he could coast the rest of the contract? Or did something change with him, possibly after the cancer? Is he not actually lazy, but just doesn't care enough about local players? Or something else entirely?

I think he busted his ass the first year up to the point he got cancer. I think he tried to come back to early and it fucked him up. I think other teams totally took advantage of that recruiting. I think he lost his right hand man to the nba coaching and maybe too much self confidence hurt him in replacing dunlap. I think Lavin had too much self confidence and thought basically he would pick up recruit wise how he left off but got out hustled for guys. I won't say lazy because I don't know what happens day to day. i think he thought last year he thought the team would be real good and didn't anticipate sucking.

Let me say one thing while admittedly I don't know what goes in day to day and whether he is doing enough work ( the numbers speak for themselves ) I will say I don't blame him for his sunday routine which people malign him for because we'd all BS to say he should work 24/7 the reality is not one person here does and god knows my own career isn't healthy and is the cause of my own sleep problems because I am always thinking about the markets and different scenarios and quite honestly it;s way too unhealthy for me so if he finds balance by spending sundays doing yoga or spending time with his wife then I fully support that.

But the bottom line is results and thats what he is getting paid for no matter how much of a good guy he is.

I hope we turn it around or it better be a monster class coming in next year

Right w/you MJ...and want to emphasize a subtle point that you made...I think his pride (perhaps a determination to debunk the general perception of his X & O acumen) stands in the way of him letting the X&O guy (presumably Whitesell) do his job...I, too, am not privvy to what goes on in practice but it does seem like Whitesell takes a backseat during games...

Old adage is a good manager hires smart (if not smarter) people, let's them do their thing and holds them accountable...

You and I (and others) all remember the old days when Looie would rant on the sidelines, but when a timeout was called and the clipboard came out, it was nearly all Mahoney. I do give Lavin credit for augmenting his staff with head caliber coach assistants, so without knowing for certain, have to say they have a lot of input into our practices and game plans. I do agree that at times, Whitesell is totally engaged during games, and at other times Lavin appears to not even speak to staff.

 

[Section3]

I think his notoriety from ESPN helped him immensely his first year. After he got sick, he unfortunately lost some of his cache. Then when the team didn't win, things started to snowball. I think he could turn around the recruiting if we can win but It is going to be tough this year and will be difficult next year as well. Not sure what the solution is.

I like Lavin and believe he got us started back on the right path, had to take some recruting risks up front and created a buzz...the problem is buzz only lasts so long and must be followed shortly by winning...

I do not hold results for years 2&3 against him as I think anyone who thought we'd win with a bunch of freshmen and sophs in a bigger and better BE was unrealistic...However, we should have won last year and this year

 

[Mean Gene]

I think his notoriety from ESPN helped him immensely his first year. After he got sick, he unfortunately lost some of his cache. Then when the team didn't win, things started to snowball. I think he could turn around the recruiting if we can win but It is going to be tough this year and will be difficult next year as well. Not sure what the solution is.

I like Lavin and believe he got us started back on the right path, had to take some recruting risks up front and created a buzz...the problem is buzz only lasts so long and must be followed shortly by winning...

I do not hold results for years 2&3 against him as I think anyone who thought we'd win with a bunch of freshmen and sophs in a bigger and better BE was unrealistic...However, we should have won last year and this year

I agree Section 3. I also think he didn't expect Sampson to leave after last year. Not that I am a Sampson fan after the selfish crap he pulled last year which basically killed our season. But, if he was back this year and realized the error of his ways from last year, we would have a few more wins right now and everything would be fine.

 

[Marillac]

I get why people are up in arms. The BS is tiring. Letting this season come down to the maturation of a freshman big man is just pure planning.

I know everyone thinks my take on the 2014 class is crazy, but I really like them. I do. There are no stars, but if we had the junior/senior versions of Alibegovic, Stewart, and ADR the last two seasons, we would have never left the top 25.

Stewart is a walkon, whatever. The kid is legitimately good. He needs to mature physically and other areas of his game have to catch up to his shooting, but he has an awesome, much needed skill.

Alibegovic is a bull. He shouldn't be playing as big of a role this season, but Lavin screwed up and now our season depends on him being able to give us 8-10 quality minutes from late February on. His D is awful and he fouls waaaaay too much, but the kid flat out brings it. He sets hard screens, he boxes out, he's competitive as hell, he's got an attitude to him as well. He can catch and shoot in the open court, slip to the basket fluidly after setting screens (keep your heads up guards), and he could be a very deadly pick-and-pop guy as an upperclassman. D will be a concern clearly.

JDR changes the game with just his size alone and he has absolutely NO skill whatsoever. ADR is very fundamentally sound and would be the most skilled big we've had in years.

The same guys that want to give credit to all the teams that beat our athletes with "better basketball players" are the same ones calling this class a failure. Stainbrook went Western Michigan out of high school. Doug McDermott and all his teammates last year were 3 stars or lower.

 

[bamafan]

JDR changes the game is the most insane inane comment you have made in a litany of such comments. Unless you mean he changes the game to a 4 on 5 situation of course.

 

[paultzman]

JDR changes the game is the most insane inane comment you have made in a litany of such comments. Unless you mean he changes the game to a 4 on 5 situation of course.

JDR can't run, jump, shoot or rebound & will never be a factor at this level. Seems like a nice kid, but let's not get carried away.

 

[Knight]

JDR changes the game is the most insane inane comment you have made in a litany of such comments. Unless you mean he changes the game to a 4 on 5 situation of course.

JDR can't run, jump, shoot or rebound & will never be a factor at this level. Seems like a nice kid, but let's not get carried away.

I like the big body in there to give some front liners a chance to catch a breath with the short rotation.

 

[Knight]

Has Lavin improved / regressed as a coach since he arrived? Or about the same.

 

[JohnnyFan]

There are no stars, but if we had the junior/senior versions of Alibegovic, Stewart, and ADR the last two seasons, we would have never left the top 25.

Unless I am misunderstanding, this is really reaching.

 

[paultzman]

There are no stars, but if we had the junior/senior versions of Alibegovic, Stewart, and ADR the last two seasons, we would have never left the top 25.

Unless I am misunderstanding, this is really reaching.

Mt. Everest reach.

 

[Marillac]

There are no stars, but if we had the junior/senior versions of Alibegovic, Stewart, and ADR the last two seasons, we would have never left the top 25.

Unless I am misunderstanding, this is really reaching.

Mt. Everest reach.

Go big or go home.

 

[Section3]

JDR changes the game is the most insane inane comment you have made in a litany of such comments. Unless you mean he changes the game to a 4 on 5 situation of course.

JDR can't run, jump, shoot or rebound & will never be a factor at this level. Seems like a nice kid, but let's not get carried away.

I dunno...looks like a good foul shooter...think Charkes Barkley worked with him

 

[bamafan]

JDR changes the game is the most insane inane comment you have made in a litany of such comments. Unless you mean he changes the game to a 4 on 5 situation of course.

JDR can't run, jump, shoot or rebound & will never be a factor at this level. Seems like a nice kid, but let's not get carried away.

I dunno...looks like a good foul shooter...think Charkes Barkley worked with him

Yeah Barkley taught him to use Barkley's golf swing at the foul line.

 

[Class of 72]

Has Lavin improved / regressed as a coach since he arrived? Or about the same.

Not to be facetious but the point of this thread is answer those questions. 
Personally, I think his coaching has improved in the past two years especially given that our brain trust hired a coach who was literally out of coaching for around 7 years. That was a huge gamble.
Last year should have been an NCAA Tourney year but player issues plagued the team with Rysheed at the center of the turbulence in a few key losses. The meltdown by the team in the NIT ruined the year.

This year began with the usual drama with the projected power forward declared ineligible rendering our front court fulnerable and possibly ruining what could have been a special year.  The loss of Rico Gathers had a similar effect on Lavin's record the previous two years.

Accordingly, his body of work will be mitigated by player losses. There is much to be said of what could have been had Jakarr stayed an extra year as his progress in the NBA shows this would have been a monster team with him.  That is no fault of Lavin.

Finally, much has been made of Lavin's salary but there are better coaches at higher salaries this year struggling without our drama and deeper benches. Look at Kevin Ollie at UCONN, Billy Donovan at UF, and Steve Alford at UCLA.  The hard part of the schedule is coming up and an NCAA bid is a long shot but hopefully we do not pull a disappearing act in the Big East tourney or the NIT and we sign some players so that we can be competitive in the league.  Unless Shaka Smart becomes available after a demoralizing loss at St. Bonaventure I doubt we make a move with an unknown coach on the national level that will cost SJU more than Lavin's brand name in the current market. 

 

[Marillac]

Has Lavin improved / regressed as a coach since he arrived? Or about the same.

Not to be facetious but the point of this thread is answer those questions. 
Personally, I think his coaching has improved in the past two years especially given that our brain trust hired a coach who was literally out of coaching for around 7 years. That was a huge gamble.
Last year should have been an NCAA Tourney year but player issues plagued the team with Rysheed at the center of the turbulence in a few key losses. The meltdown by the team in the NIT ruined the year.

This year began with the usual drama with the projected power forward declared ineligible rendering our front court fulnerable and possibly ruining what could have been a special year.  The loss of Rico Gathers had a similar effect on Lavin's record the previous two years.

Accordingly, his body of work will be mitigated by player losses. There is much to be said of what could have been had Jakarr stayed an extra year as his progress in the NBA shows this would have been a monster team with him.  That is no fault of Lavin.

Finally, much has been made of Lavin's salary but there are better coaches at higher salaries this year struggling without our drama and deeper benches. Look at Kevin Ollie at UCONN, Billy Donovan at UF, and Steve Alford at UCLA.  The hard part of the schedule is coming up and an NCAA bid is a long shot but hopefully we do not pull a disappearing act in the Big East tourney or the NIT and we sign some players so that we can be competitive in the league.  Unless Shaka Smart becomes available after a demoralizing loss at St. Bonaventure I doubt we make a move with an unknown coach on the national level that will cost SJU more than Lavin's brand name in the current market. 

Shaka wouldn't come to St. John's. There really aren't a lot of guys out there that would consider this gig that are any better than Lavin.

Bruce Pearl would be a guy that I think could enjoy massive success, but he seems like a football conference guy. Plus, he would have no margin of error before the sharks started to circle on these sites.

One thing I do know for sure, the 2019 graduating class (so far Henderson, ADR, Sampson, and Doughty) will enjoy a much better four year run together than this 2015 graduating class did.

 

[Marillac]

JDR changes the game is the most insane inane comment you have made in a litany of such comments. Unless you mean he changes the game to a 4 on 5 situation of course.

JDR can't run, jump, shoot or rebound & will never be a factor at this level. Seems like a nice kid, but let's not get carried away.

You'll get no argument from me on any of the above! It was a poor choice of words. The fact that the kid, in spite of all that you and I mentioned, can give us 3-5 minutes straight without being a complete liability says a lot about raw size and hustle. ADR is just as big and he is infinitely more skilled.

I"m not making the kid out to be star in my mind or anybody else's--and who knows if he'll ever even qualify--but I think he can be a very, very solid 15-20 mpg guy if his weight is kept in check and he is given the green light by the NCAA. I really think he'll surprise.

 

[JohnnyFan]

Has Lavin improved / regressed as a coach since he arrived? Or about the same.

Not to be facetious but the point of this thread is answer those questions. 
Personally, I think his coaching has improved in the past two years especially given that our brain trust hired a coach who was literally out of coaching for around 7 years. That was a huge gamble.
Last year should have been an NCAA Tourney year but player issues plagued the team with Rysheed at the center of the turbulence in a few key losses. The meltdown by the team in the NIT ruined the year.

This year began with the usual drama with the projected power forward declared ineligible rendering our front court fulnerable and possibly ruining what could have been a special year.  The loss of Rico Gathers had a similar effect on Lavin's record the previous two years.

Accordingly, his body of work will be mitigated by player losses. There is much to be said of what could have been had Jakarr stayed an extra year as his progress in the NBA shows this would have been a monster team with him.  That is no fault of Lavin.

Finally, much has been made of Lavin's salary but there are better coaches at higher salaries this year struggling without our drama and deeper benches. Look at Kevin Ollie at UCONN, Billy Donovan at UF, and Steve Alford at UCLA.  The hard part of the schedule is coming up and an NCAA bid is a long shot but hopefully we do not pull a disappearing act in the Big East tourney or the NIT and we sign some players so that we can be competitive in the league.  Unless Shaka Smart becomes available after a demoralizing loss at St. Bonaventure I doubt we make a move with an unknown coach on the national level that will cost SJU more than Lavin's brand name in the current market. 

Shaka wouldn't come to St. John's. There really aren't a lot of guys out there that would consider this gig that are any better than Lavin.

Bruce Pearl would be a guy that I think could enjoy massive success, but he seems like a football conference guy. Plus, he would have no margin of error before the sharks started to circle on these sites.

One thing I do know for sure, the 2019 graduating class (so far Henderson, ADR, Sampson, and Doughty) will enjoy a much better four year run together than this 2015 graduating class did.

How could you know this for sure? As of now, it is a less talented class with the same coach.

 

[gonzalo]

One thing I do know for sure, the 2019 graduating class (so far Henderson, ADR, Sampson, and Doughty) will enjoy a much better four year run together than this 2015 graduating class did.

Marillac, March 15, 2012:

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=6747.msg106422#msg106422

"IMO, we will be better than UK for the next three years. They could be losing: Terrence Jones, Darius Miller, Anthony Davis, Doron Lamb, Marquis Teague, and Kidd-Gilchrest. You can't replace that with freshmen and be better than the soph's we return."

 

[paultzman]

JDR changes the game is the most insane inane comment you have made in a litany of such comments. Unless you mean he changes the game to a 4 on 5 situation of course.

JDR can't run, jump, shoot or rebound & will never be a factor at this level. Seems like a nice kid, but let's not get carried away.

You'll get no argument from me on any of the above! It was a poor choice of words. The fact that the kid, in spite of all that you and I mentioned, can give us 3-5 minutes straight without being a complete liability says a lot about raw size and hustle. ADR is just as big and he is infinitely more skilled.

I"m not making the kid out to be star in my mind or anybody else's--and who knows if he'll ever even qualify--but I think he can be a very, very solid 15-20 mpg guy if his weight is kept in check and he is given the green light by the NCAA. I really think he'll surprise.

Agree on Adonis potential if he makes commitment to get in decent playing shape. Nice hands, good shot, passes well, legit big & has good instincts. Please pay the price Adonis!