Lavin's Body Of Work At SJU

[Ray Morgan]

The bottom line is, after five years, Lavin should have this program in a much better place. Not only have the results been poor, the program's outlook is not promising.

Consider how the future looks for teams like Seton Hall, Georgetown, Marquette, Butler, Villanova, Xavier and Providence. They not only have a chance to dance, they also have balanced rosters and/or big recruiting classes signed (i.e. Marquette). Unfortunately, as of now, we are left behind with Creighton and DePaul, both of whom have beat us this year.

Laslty, considering the year Oliver Purnell is having with DePaul, is Lavin the worst coach in the Big East? You could certainly make that case.

Let's move on. We can do better.

You said the magic words, "balanced roster". That is the job of the coach. On the interview of Lavin someone posted earlier today, I heard excuses about injuries and about his focus on his team playing well beginning February. Everyone has injuries and banged up players. That's why you recruit with depth in mind and back-ups for each position. I really thought that after that first recruiting class, we struck gold. Then came the non-quals and the other issues. I'm not one to normally put much stock into articles written by disgruntled UCLA fans or bloggers. However, reading the articles warning us about Lavin, almost everything said was spot on. Certainly sounded like our guy.

 

[Jack Williams]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Marillac,
the same could be said to you...
If you want a fan base that is always happy and celebrating? Then root for Kentucky
You want a fan-base that doesn't criticize the coach or administration? root for Duke or the Chinese national team


The fans here complain because the last few coaches haven't met their expectations. Now, that could be because expectations are too high, but that would be accepting that sju is only meant or capable of making the tournament once a decade. I'm not ready to concede that.
So, I'm going to demand more from the AD! coaches, and players.

There is a self-fulfilling cycle going on. We are a nasty, entitled fan base. Look at the Briscoe recruitment page. The DAY he was set to announce with rumors he was leaning towards us, there was a barrage of fire Lavin posts and an incredible increase of negativity from guys that wanted Lavin gone more than they wanted him to sign a McDonald's All-American recruit.

It's naive to think recruits don't read these sites. They would be foolish not to. I know it's the first I would have done if they were around when I was making my choice where to play college ball.

The asst. coach at Iowa State that was a team manager under Norm said it was so refreshing to be a part of a program with a truly supportive fan base unlike the mess he came from here where people are just nasty.

What do you want? If someone repeatedly kicks you in the nuts you aren't going to hold hands with them and be friendly.

Some SJU fans, like me, are also jets and mets fans. How can you expect fans not be annoyed and critical? It's like in our DNA. Getting let down time after time doesn't make for a happy fan base, so don't expect one

 

[JohnnyFan]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Marillac,
the same could be said to you...
If you want a fan base that is always happy and celebrating? Then root for Kentucky
You want a fan-base that doesn't criticize the coach or administration? root for Duke or the Chinese national team


The fans here complain because the last few coaches haven't met their expectations. Now, that could be because expectations are too high, but that would be accepting that sju is only meant or capable of making the tournament once a decade. I'm not ready to concede that.
So, I'm going to demand more from the AD! coaches, and players.

There is a self-fulfilling cycle going on. We are a nasty, entitled fan base. Look at the Briscoe recruitment page. The DAY he was set to announce with rumors he was leaning towards us, there was a barrage of fire Lavin posts and an incredible increase of negativity from guys that wanted Lavin gone more than they wanted him to sign a McDonald's All-American recruit.

It's naive to think recruits don't read these sites. They would be foolish not to. I know it's the first I would have done if they were around when I was making my choice where to play college ball.

The asst. coach at Iowa State that was a team manager under Norm said it was so refreshing to be a part of a program with a truly supportive fan base unlike the mess he came from here where people are just nasty.

Well, he went to a program that was winning. Fans react to results.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Marillac,
the same could be said to you...
If you want a fan base that is always happy and celebrating? Then root for Kentucky
You want a fan-base that doesn't criticize the coach or administration? root for Duke or the Chinese national team


The fans here complain because the last few coaches haven't met their expectations. Now, that could be because expectations are too high, but that would be accepting that sju is only meant or capable of making the tournament once a decade. I'm not ready to concede that.
So, I'm going to demand more from the AD! coaches, and players.

There is a self-fulfilling cycle going on. We are a nasty, entitled fan base. Look at the Briscoe recruitment page. The DAY he was set to announce with rumors he was leaning towards us, there was a barrage of fire Lavin posts and an incredible increase of negativity from guys that wanted Lavin gone more than they wanted him to sign a McDonald's All-American recruit.

It's naive to think recruits don't read these sites. They would be foolish not to. I know it's the first I would have done if they were around when I was making my choice where to play college ball.

The asst. coach at Iowa State that was a team manager under Norm said it was so refreshing to be a part of a program with a truly supportive fan base unlike the mess he came from here where people are just nasty.

Was that team manager referring to the message board posters or the fans that attended games with bags over their heads or calling for Norm's head? As for comparing the demeanor of New Yorkers to Iowans, that would apply if you were leaving Waldbaum's and manning the check out line in an Iowa grocery store. Different place, different people. I guess that manager wasn't a native New Yorker.

 

[Marillac]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Marillac,
the same could be said to you...
If you want a fan base that is always happy and celebrating? Then root for Kentucky
You want a fan-base that doesn't criticize the coach or administration? root for Duke or the Chinese national team


The fans here complain because the last few coaches haven't met their expectations. Now, that could be because expectations are too high, but that would be accepting that sju is only meant or capable of making the tournament once a decade. I'm not ready to concede that.
So, I'm going to demand more from the AD! coaches, and players.

There is a self-fulfilling cycle going on. We are a nasty, entitled fan base. Look at the Briscoe recruitment page. The DAY he was set to announce with rumors he was leaning towards us, there was a barrage of fire Lavin posts and an incredible increase of negativity from guys that wanted Lavin gone more than they wanted him to sign a McDonald's All-American recruit.

It's naive to think recruits don't read these sites. They would be foolish not to. I know it's the first I would have done if they were around when I was making my choice where to play college ball.

The asst. coach at Iowa State that was a team manager under Norm said it was so refreshing to be a part of a program with a truly supportive fan base unlike the mess he came from here where people are just nasty.

Was that team manager referring to the message board posters or the fans that attended games with bags over their heads or calling for Norm's head? As for comparing the demeanor of New Yorkers to Iowans, that would apply if you were leaving Waldbaum's and manning the check out line in an Iowa grocery store. Different place, different people. I guess that manager wasn't a native New Yorker.

All he has to do to get a recruit over us is to calmly have them read our websites. Even in the best of times, it is brutal. You never hear from guys like Otis when we win, but they are replying to multiple threads after every loss obit of negative news.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Marillac,
the same could be said to you...
If you want a fan base that is always happy and celebrating? Then root for Kentucky
You want a fan-base that doesn't criticize the coach or administration? root for Duke or the Chinese national team


The fans here complain because the last few coaches haven't met their expectations. Now, that could be because expectations are too high, but that would be accepting that sju is only meant or capable of making the tournament once a decade. I'm not ready to concede that.
So, I'm going to demand more from the AD! coaches, and players.

There is a self-fulfilling cycle going on. We are a nasty, entitled fan base. Look at the Briscoe recruitment page. The DAY he was set to announce with rumors he was leaning towards us, there was a barrage of fire Lavin posts and an incredible increase of negativity from guys that wanted Lavin gone more than they wanted him to sign a McDonald's All-American recruit.

It's naive to think recruits don't read these sites. They would be foolish not to. I know it's the first I would have done if they were around when I was making my choice where to play college ball.

The asst. coach at Iowa State that was a team manager under Norm said it was so refreshing to be a part of a program with a truly supportive fan base unlike the mess he came from here where people are just nasty.

Was that team manager referring to the message board posters or the fans that attended games with bags over their heads or calling for Norm's head? As for comparing the demeanor of New Yorkers to Iowans, that would apply if you were leaving Waldbaum's and manning the check out line in an Iowa grocery store. Different place, different people. I guess that manager wasn't a native New Yorker.

All he has to do to get a recruit over us is to calmly have them read our websites. Even in the best of times, it is brutal. You never hear from guys like Otis when we win, but they are replying to multiple threads after every loss obit of negative news.

I understand where you are coming from. But it's a message board in a country that allows free speech. Ridiculous things will be said to the point where we have a dozen posters that can read lips, interpret body language and assess work ethic from the color of a man's tie, or the lack thereof. As for this message board being used as a tool to sour recruits on the program, Bobby Knight recruited a ton of great players. It seems all you would have to do is bring out some footage of him hurling a chair or yanking on a player's jersey. Or trotting out one of his recruits that transferred just to badmouth him. But he still got great players because he was a great coach and teacher, and a prolific winner. That's what recruits are looking for. At least I would hope so.

 

[beast of the east]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Want people to show up, then gotta get a winning product, then people will spend their money on them. You can say what you want about them not being real fans then, but that's just how it is.

What you say is true for the casual fan, the people who show up only when the team is winning. The Mets have about 4 million of them, the Yankees even more. At this point I'm a casual Mets fan, not a diehard. I don't take every loss and losing season painfully. When they become good again, I'll show up.

You guys who claim to be diehard, and then don't show up are part of the problem, not the solution. In college basketball, fans are the 6th man. Show up, and be loud, and a good home team becomes almost unbeatable on their own floor. Stay home and rant at your TV when you could have contributed to the win by creating that home court advantage, and you are a pretender, a casual fan.

Even when we win, some guys bitch about a $60 ticket for good seats, which is standard in big conference college basketball even away from NY, in lower income places like Syracuse, Lawrence, Tallahassee. In NYC a MOVIE TICKET costs $15, on LI $12. Throw in popcorn and a soda, and that's another $14.

So, the reason it is so easy to disregard and be disdainful of loudmouths who think they are diehards but don't show up.

I'm not talking about guys who live more than 50 miles away and remain loyal to the program. I'm also not talking about guys with financial hardships or disabilities who can't get to games. I'm also definitely not talking about guys who have been extremely critical of the program, who I disagree with a lot, but who show up frequently or hold season tickets.

But for you to think you are somehow a big fan of this program, a team that has had 4 of the top six players at points during this season as being potential NBA players, and not show up until they win, is pure BS. You are fans of winning, casual fans, and nothing more.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Marillac,
the same could be said to you...
If you want a fan base that is always happy and celebrating? Then root for Kentucky
You want a fan-base that doesn't criticize the coach or administration? root for Duke or the Chinese national team


The fans here complain because the last few coaches haven't met their expectations. Now, that could be because expectations are too high, but that would be accepting that sju is only meant or capable of making the tournament once a decade. I'm not ready to concede that.
So, I'm going to demand more from the AD! coaches, and players.

Marillac you are being a little over the top singling our fan base out.

Go read the UConn boards- not even a year removed from winning a National Title they are questioning and killing Kevin Ollie.

Thats from a fan base that has 4 of the last 16 NCAA Titles.

Sports in general is a "what have you done for me lately" mentality with fan bases and unfortunately SJU basketball hasnt had anything lately.

Our fan base has the right to be pissed....one NCAA Tournament game since the 2002-2003 season....its an utter disgrace whats gone on here.

 

[SJU1512]

Not a believer that the coach can always be praised for everything when things go well or blamed for everything when things go sideways. Too many people that are accountable for a program at this level.

However one thing that the coach is absolutely, unequivocally responsible for is the culture he cultivates within the program.

If there is one word to describe our culture under Lavin it is volatile. Troubling when the objective is just the opposite - stability.

There's been plenty of good. There's been strong recruiting years. The individual success of D'Angelo Harrison on and off the court. The overall public/national notoriety (while not primarily because of on-court results) has improved.

It's not just that there's been bad. It's that it's been so consistent with little improvement, on or off the court. Most all fans could accept what transpired in 2011-2012. But this is Year 5, we are still dealing with the same stuff, and we have been dealing with that same stuff almost every year. Off the court (academic ineligibles, suspensions) and on (uneven, undisciplined play). How many teams in the country don't have a single ejection all year? How many players in the country have been ejected twice this season?

That all comes back to the culture fostered by the coach. If I'm the President evaluating that game last night, what am I thinking about a nationally televised game where we lose by 20, our 14th out of 15 against ranked opponents, and poorly represent both the program and the university? And why do I have reason to believe that even with Sampson, Diallo, and whoever else that anything is going to change, considering what I see before me with a similar recruiting haul now playing as seniors? As a leader in a results-oriented business is there any way I can rationalize this as acceptable?

 

[Jack Williams]

At the end of the day Lavin should never be forgiven for missing the tournament last season. You might never see a roster at St. John's better than that one post 1900s.

Maybe Karr hogged it too much, maybe sir Dom hung around the perimeter, and maybe Sanchez didn't fit in with the model of the team.

But the fact that Lavin couldn't work those things out and get that roster to a tournament, and then follow it up by not recruiting for a class, it is just inexcusable.

The only way I would partially forgive him and consider keeping him is if he gets us a tournament this year, but it doesn't look good as of now.

 

[redfan2kkkkkkjjjjjj]

This might be the DUMBEST sju squad ever assembled... thanks coach!!

Lavin must go... NOW!!!

 

[paultzman]

Not a believer that the coach can always be praised for everything when things go well or blamed for everything when things go sideways. Too many people that are accountable for a program at this level.

However one thing that the coach is absolutely, unequivocally responsible for is the culture he cultivates within the program.

If there is one word to describe our culture under Lavin it is volatile. Troubling when the objective is just the opposite - stability.

There's been plenty of good. There's been strong recruiting years. The individual success of D'Angelo Harrison on and off the court. The overall public/national notoriety (while not primarily because of on-court results) has improved.

It's not just that there's been bad. It's that it's been so consistent with little improvement, on or off the court. Most all fans could accept what transpired in 2011-2012. But this is Year 5, we are still dealing with the same stuff, and we have been dealing with that same stuff almost every year. Off the court (academic ineligibles, suspensions) and on (uneven, undisciplined play). How many teams in the country don't have a single ejection all year? How many players in the country have been ejected twice this season?

That all comes back to the culture fostered by the coach. If I'm the President evaluating that game last night, what am I thinking about a nationally televised game where we lose by 20, our 14th out of 15 against ranked opponents, and poorly represent both the program and the university? And why do I have reason to believe that even with Sampson, Diallo, and whoever else that anything is going to change, considering what I see before me with a similar recruiting haul now playing as seniors? As a leader in a results-oriented business is there any way I can rationalize this as acceptable?

Very sobering, rational & objective assessment of the program at this point SJU 15. The culture is in dire need of change. I suspect the new SJU President has great experience assessing organizational functioning and effecting change where warranted. I know he has bigger fish to fry, but am confident he will use those skills to address the void you articulated so well.

 

[Redmen88]

We need to build a winners mentality at SJU. You do that by winning. How do you win? You build a program with the right mix of players and as some players leave either by NBA or graduation, you bring in new players. We are not building here. We are plugging holes.

We needed some freshman or transfers this year to contribute, not just 1 that was academically ineligible. See every other BE team. Where are we next year? If we do not pick up a PG or Diallo we are back to square 1. I thought Lavin could do this 5 years ago but was wrong. We need change. This is not just bitching on a board, we are spiraling downward and need to right the ship before we hit rock bottom, aka Pittsburgh.

 

[Knight]

Lavin's focus seems to be on what shirt he will wear for the game. Glad he did not lose his composure where that is concerned.

 

[SJUalum98]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Marillac,
the same could be said to you...
If you want a fan base that is always happy and celebrating? Then root for Kentucky
You want a fan-base that doesn't criticize the coach or administration? root for Duke or the Chinese national team


The fans here complain because the last few coaches haven't met their expectations. Now, that could be because expectations are too high, but that would be accepting that sju is only meant or capable of making the tournament once a decade. I'm not ready to concede that.
So, I'm going to demand more from the AD! coaches, and players.

There is a self-fulfilling cycle going on. We are a nasty, entitled fan base. Look at the Briscoe recruitment page. The DAY he was set to announce with rumors he was leaning towards us, there was a barrage of fire Lavin posts and an incredible increase of negativity from guys that wanted Lavin gone more than they wanted him to sign a McDonald's All-American recruit.

It's naive to think recruits don't read these sites. They would be foolish not to. I know it's the first I would have done if they were around when I was making my choice where to play college ball.

The asst. coach at Iowa State that was a team manager under Norm said it was so refreshing to be a part of a program with a truly supportive fan base unlike the mess he came from here where people are just nasty.

The fanbase is so far from entitled.

A message board probably doesn't even represent 1% of the students, alumni, faculty and fanbase.

Go point your finger at the school president and AD who shape the program. Not the fans.

The basketball program doesn't get supported because it's been an absolute letdown for over a decade.

The fanbase didn't hype this team. The coach did. And with that comes expectations that haven't been lived up to.

 

[SJU1512]

Not a believer that the coach can always be praised for everything when things go well or blamed for everything when things go sideways. Too many people that are accountable for a program at this level.

However one thing that the coach is absolutely, unequivocally responsible for is the culture he cultivates within the program.

If there is one word to describe our culture under Lavin it is volatile. Troubling when the objective is just the opposite - stability.

There's been plenty of good. There's been strong recruiting years. The individual success of D'Angelo Harrison on and off the court. The overall public/national notoriety (while not primarily because of on-court results) has improved.

It's not just that there's been bad. It's that it's been so consistent with little improvement, on or off the court. Most all fans could accept what transpired in 2011-2012. But this is Year 5, we are still dealing with the same stuff, and we have been dealing with that same stuff almost every year. Off the court (academic ineligibles, suspensions) and on (uneven, undisciplined play). How many teams in the country don't have a single ejection all year? How many players in the country have been ejected twice this season?

That all comes back to the culture fostered by the coach. If I'm the President evaluating that game last night, what am I thinking about a nationally televised game where we lose by 20, our 14th out of 15 against ranked opponents, and poorly represent both the program and the university? And why do I have reason to believe that even with Sampson, Diallo, and whoever else that anything is going to change, considering what I see before me with a similar recruiting haul now playing as seniors? As a leader in a results-oriented business is there any way I can rationalize this as acceptable?

Very sobering, rational & objective assessment of the program at this point SJU 15. The culture is in dire need of change. I suspect the new SJU President has great experience assessing organizational functioning and effecting change where warranted. I know he has bigger fish to fry, but am confident he will use those skills to address the void you articulated so well.

Agreed. This is a game for us as fans but important to remember this is part of something far more important for others. Levels above the staff are ultimately responsible for evaluating the success of the program, and that evaluation has broader implications than just recruiting results, game strategy, etc. Putting yourself in the person charged with making that evaluation's shoes, the current picture is not a pretty one.

 

[beast of the east]

Not a believer that the coach can always be praised for everything when things go well or blamed for everything when things go sideways. Too many people that are accountable for a program at this level.

However one thing that the coach is absolutely, unequivocally responsible for is the culture he cultivates within the program.

If there is one word to describe our culture under Lavin it is volatile. Troubling when the objective is just the opposite - stability.

There's been plenty of good. There's been strong recruiting years. The individual success of D'Angelo Harrison on and off the court. The overall public/national notoriety (while not primarily because of on-court results) has improved.

It's not just that there's been bad. It's that it's been so consistent with little improvement, on or off the court. Most all fans could accept what transpired in 2011-2012. But this is Year 5, we are still dealing with the same stuff, and we have been dealing with that same stuff almost every year. Off the court (academic ineligibles, suspensions) and on (uneven, undisciplined play). How many teams in the country don't have a single ejection all year? How many players in the country have been ejected twice this season?

That all comes back to the culture fostered by the coach. If I'm the President evaluating that game last night, what am I thinking about a nationally televised game where we lose by 20, our 14th out of 15 against ranked opponents, and poorly represent both the program and the university? And why do I have reason to believe that even with Sampson, Diallo, and whoever else that anything is going to change, considering what I see before me with a similar recruiting haul now playing as seniors? As a leader in a results-oriented business is there any way I can rationalize this as acceptable?

Very sobering, rational & objective assessment of the program at this point SJU 15. The culture is in dire need of change. I suspect the new SJU President has great experience assessing organizational functioning and effecting change where warranted. I know he has bigger fish to fry, but am confident he will use those skills to address the void you articulated so well.

I'm harsh, but not quite all the way harsh as your post, which I respect. The wheels fell off, plain and simple. If this team had demonstrated this type of behavior and frustration before, I'd agree 100%. Frankly, whether it's celebrating a block with a huge smile and a strut (Mutombo had his charisma, so it's okay with me), or smiling broadly at every foul or turnover (shows a certain hostility), or refusing to go into a game (reason for dismissal), Obekpa I think is a really difficult guy to coach and manage. Loose cannon for sure.

The rest: I'll give them a pass for the night. Except for some Dom moments in the past, and of course Harrison's now reformed behavior, we haven't seen much of it. I think the frustration came from the knowledge that losing Obekpa so early was a likely "L", and rather than fight to overcome it, they fell apart.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

The biggest thing is that fans need to know and understand what they want from this program. For the most part, it seems to change every 5 minutes. And that is the reason they will never be happy.


About 10yrs ago, they wanted a coach who had local ties, who would recruit the city and local areas, who could clean this program up. So they hired Norm, and we all know how that worked out.

So then the fans said, we want a coach that can be the face of the program, a face that people will recognize. We need to have a coach that has that 'NYC swagger'. So they got Lavin, and he has been exactly what we wanted as a coach.

Our last two coaches have been exactly what the fans have wanted...so what's next?

Now look at the players themselves. Everyone said that we needed local players, and so we got them. But all of a sudden those local players weren't good enough and weren't winning enough. Then the fans started to say that we needed good players, regardless of where they are from. So Lavin started recruiting kids from all over the country, and now all over the world. And now our fans are upset again for him not being able to seal the deal with local talent.

People on here claim that NYC is the greatest city in the world (which it may be), and everyone has that NYC swagger/attitude/cockiness.....but then we get pissed if the players act that way on the court.


So what do people want and expect from this program? Because in the end, you can't have it both ways.....

 

[ctstorm]

The biggest thing is that fans need to know and understand what they want from this program. For the most part, it seems to change every 5 minutes. And that is the reason they will never be happy.


About 10yrs ago, they wanted a coach who had local ties, who would recruit the city and local areas, who could clean this program up. So they hired Norm, and we all know how that worked out.

So then the fans said, we want a coach that can be the face of the program, a face that people will recognize. We need to have a coach that has that 'NYC swagger'. So they got Lavin, and he has been exactly what we wanted as a coach.

Our last two coaches have been exactly what the fans have wanted...so what's next?

Now look at the players themselves. Everyone said that we needed local players, and so we got them. But all of a sudden those local players weren't good enough and weren't winning enough. Then the fans started to say that we needed good players, regardless of where they are from. So Lavin started recruiting kids from all over the country, and now all over the world. And now our fans are upset again for him not being able to seal the deal with local talent.

People on here claim that NYC is the greatest city in the world (which it may be), and everyone has that NYC swagger/attitude/cockiness.....but then we get pissed if the players act that way on the court.


So what do people want and expect from this program? Because in the end, you can't have it both ways.....

Wins.

 

[paultzman]

The biggest thing is that fans need to know and understand what they want from this program. For the most part, it seems to change every 5 minutes. And that is the reason they will never be happy.


About 10yrs ago, they wanted a coach who had local ties, who would recruit the city and local areas, who could clean this program up. So they hired Norm, and we all know how that worked out.

So then the fans said, we want a coach that can be the face of the program, a face that people will recognize. We need to have a coach that has that 'NYC swagger'. So they got Lavin, and he has been exactly what we wanted as a coach.

Our last two coaches have been exactly what the fans have wanted...so what's next?

Now look at the players themselves. Everyone said that we needed local players, and so we got them. But all of a sudden those local players weren't good enough and weren't winning enough. Then the fans started to say that we needed good players, regardless of where they are from. So Lavin started recruiting kids from all over the country, and now all over the world. And now our fans are upset again for him not being able to seal the deal with local talent.

People on here claim that NYC is the greatest city in the world (which it may be), and everyone has that NYC swagger/attitude/cockiness.....but then we get pissed if the players act that way on the court.


So what do people want and expect from this program? Because in the end, you can't have it both ways.....

What is it you want?