Lavin parting ways with St.John's

[beast of the east]

This is amateur hour. The school should be absolutely be ashamed of itself. Honestly, there is a reason why our program has been the pits for years and it extends well beyond the head coach.

The University should have been prepared to make a decision immediately following the end of the season. Whether or not the team beat SDSU should have had no bearing on the decision. These conflicting reports about Lavin's future are an embarrassment.

If in fact Lavin is retained, there is little doubt in my mind that the relationship will be strained. Notwithstanding his public pronouncements, we will have a head coach that is resentful for how this is being handled. And whether you like Lavin or not, who could blame him for being peeved.

With all due respect, St. John's doesn't have to do anything. Lavin is under contract for one more season. Schools do not have to announce annually they intend to bring back coaches still under contract. In most cases it would actually be very weird. If his contract was up after this season, it would be a different story.

Our season ended less than a week ago. You guys need to relax. If they intent to let Lavin go, they'll announce it. If they extend him, they'll announce it. A reasonable time frame for a decision is Final Four weekend.

This is not an easy decision. Lavin didn't go 10-20 or 28-3. He didn't do anything awful to embarrass the school unlike some want everyone to believe. He graduated all of his seniors and his senior spoke glowingly about him the relationship they have with him. This call comes down to one question "Can St. John's do better?"

"Can St. John's do better" is the most sensible sentence I have read in the last few days. No hysteria, no predictions, no freaking out. That's what it should come down to. With Norm, you couldn't help but do better. With Lavin, it's hard to say. When it comes to recruiting, he could get hot again. I hope the admin has evaluated what is out there, and will extend if there are no better options.

To me, a realistic goal is, "Can we annually reside in the top 4 places of the Big East, and top 3 in most years?" If we are in the top 4 annually, even 8 out of 10 years, we'd get 8 bids in 10 years. From what we've seen of Lavin, can he deliver that?

Forget about becming one of the top teams in the country for a minute. Do any of us believe that Lavin can consistently make us one of the top teams in our conference?

The answer to that question is obviously no.

I'm torn about this entire issue, because while I think we can do better than Lavin I also know from our recent experience (Norm, Mahoney) that we can do worse.

Here is the troubling thing in my mind... The season that just ended (21-12, not a factor in the BE regular season or BET, one and done in the Dance) would have been considered mediocre to SJ fans not too long ago. Looie had those kind of seasons almost every year -- and every few years he put together better teams that actually made a little noise.

With Lavin, I truly believe that the season we just had was the high water mark. We will not do better than this. These were all his players, mostly seniors, and were the remnants of his supposedly signature recruiting class. I do not believe he is capable of putting together a Final Four caliber team even one time (his recruiting is not nearly as good as advertised), and if he did get that level of talent to commit to SJ and actually get them eligible and on the court, I do not believe he is a good enough coach to actually get them there.

SO by extending Lavin, I believe we are signing on for an extended run of mediocrity. Some years we'll be pretty good and we'll be in the top half of the BE, and have the kind of year we just had, and some years (when the cupboard is bare, like next year will be) we will be in the bottom half of the BE and will be an afterthought.

The only hope I have in regards to your high water mark comment is that this roster was very far from perfect. I do envison a Lavin roster that is stocked with talent at all positions and a deeper bench of capable subs who will eventually become starters. Too much to ask?

 

[buckethead]

I genuinely like the person I see and hear Lavin to be...but coaching wise I am perplexed because I don't see a lot of stellar coaching. I feel like I see a lot of HS coaches in the area here who would coach circles around him. I think what saved his year this year wasn't first class coaching, but gritty, experienced players who made stuff happen through determination.

Now that's not saying I don't think he can coach, but I think there really is something missing in the way that the team developed over the past few years (or didn't develop). I know he lost key piece to the draft (or their own inability to follow team rules) but part of the game is replacing those pieces or compensating for their loss. I didn't see that. I hope part of the negotiations involves revamping the staff to get another X's and O's guy in to implement a reliable offensive system that works with the players they have and who can help make smart game-time decisions.

Anyway looking forward to 2015-16 and in the immediate, the signing of Diallo, Freeman and someone who can reliably hit a #(*&$(#(&$( three point shot.

 

[SJU1512]

There is a reasonable basis to bring Lavin back and a reasonable basis to move on. I agree with Marillac, the critical analysis is "can SJU do better?" Right now, I feel that they can with Archie, Danny, or Bobby. But I'm also conscious of a grass is always greener consideration.

If Lavin is going to be back, while he has been one of the more polarizing figures for this program in recent memory, I think one thing most can agree on is that he has defined strengths and weaknesses. Can be said about many in all professions, but his are particularly acute.

Many are focused on financial contingencies in the extension, and for good reason. However I would also use this opportunity to hone in on those material shortcomings that have been, most importantly, consistently present and without much improvement over the course of his five years here. He should be accountable for continued deficiencies.

1. Shake up the staff. I don't like to see anyone lose a job, and this is not for punishment or because someone needs to be held responsible (especially one who isn't actually responsible). But because Lavin needs significant X/O help. Anyone who thinks otherwise should watch the SDSU game, the very last game for a group that largely had 4 years under his tutelage, on loop for 10 hours and tell me how you feel. His teams play hard but there is a lack of targeted, technical strategy on any sort of consistent basis. Moreover he has two guys on the staff who hadn't coached one minute of college basketball prior to SJU, and are more likely yes men than not. That now has to be viewed as a reach, the results have not been good enough to justify. Go get an assistant coach and a DOBO who have coaching and DOBO experience.

2. Zero tolerance policy on academic ineligibles. Stringent standard even for the most buttoned up coaches in today's college game, but Lavin hasn't earned any leeway. What he's earned is a zero tolerance policy since he can't come close to policing himself on the issue. By my count 7 ineligibles - 6 for the entire season - in his 4 full recruiting classes. This matters. How much better is last year's team with Thomas and ADR? Recruiting guys who are good but can't qualify does not cover up for an inability to recruit good players who can qualify. Some situations are outside of a coach's control, and again if this is 2-3 instances we aren't talking. But it's been an absolute epidemic during the Lavin era, a near every year occurrence, and it's bad publicity for the school and the program and unfair to the rest of the players on the team. Recruit kids who can get and stay eligible.

3. Results only. This is a basketball program, not an abstract mission of philosophical growth. The seniors are gone. No more incremental progress of 13 wins, 17 wins, 20 wins, 21 wins. No more what we could have been with Harkless, Garrett, and Sampson. No more we're dangerous in February. Get a team ready to play every year and win games. This is the hardest to hold him to, but asking one of a University's most public figures to tighten up his "excuses and distraction from the real issues" game in the media is not out of the question at the money he makes.

 

[paultzman]

Very fair prescription for improvement.

I still subscribe to the notion that contract extension negotiations have not really begun & there has been information out there possibly reflecting desires of one side of equation. Prudently waiting for indication from SJU that there is accord.

In the event that extension is given, I agree there needs to be some tangible and reasonable changes & distinct benchmarks for improvement. Who will monitor such, is the 64 million dollar question.

 

[JohnnyFan]

There is a reasonable basis to bring Lavin back and a reasonable basis to move on. I agree with Marillac, the critical analysis is "can SJU do better?" Right now, I feel that they can with Archie, Danny, or Bobby. But I'm also conscious of a grass is always greener consideration.

If Lavin is going to be back, while he has been one of the more polarizing figures for this program in recent memory, I think one thing most can agree on is that he has defined strengths and weaknesses. Can be said about many in all professions, but his are particularly acute.

Many are focused on financial contingencies in the extension, and for good reason. However I would also use this opportunity to hone in on those material shortcomings that have been, most importantly, consistently present and without much improvement over the course of his five years here. He should be accountable for continued deficiencies.

1. Shake up the staff. I don't like to see anyone lose a job, and this is not for punishment or because someone needs to be held responsible (especially one who isn't actually responsible). But because Lavin needs significant X/O help. Anyone who thinks otherwise should watch the SDSU game, the very last game for a group that largely had 4 years under his tutelage, on loop for 10 hours and tell me how you feel. His teams play hard but there is a lack of targeted, technical strategy on any sort of consistent basis. Moreover he has two guys on the staff who hadn't coached one minute of college basketball prior to SJU, and are more likely yes men than not. That now has to be viewed as a reach, the results have not been good enough to justify. Go get an assistant coach and a DOBO who have coaching and DOBO experience.

2. Zero tolerance policy on academic ineligibles. Stringent standard even for the most buttoned up coaches in today's college game, but Lavin hasn't earned any leeway. What he's earned is a zero tolerance policy since he can't come close to policing himself on the issue. By my count 7 ineligibles - 6 for the entire season - in his 4 full recruiting classes. This matters. How much better is last year's team with Thomas and ADR? Recruiting guys who are good but can't qualify does not cover up for an inability to recruit good players who can qualify. Some situations are outside of a coach's control, and again if this is 2-3 instances we aren't talking. But it's been an absolute epidemic during the Lavin era, a near every year occurrence, and it's bad publicity for the school and the program and unfair to the rest of the players on the team. Recruit kids who can get and stay eligible.

3. Results only. This is a basketball program, not an abstract mission of philosophical growth. The seniors are gone. No more incremental progress of 13 wins, 17 wins, 20 wins, 21 wins. No more what we could have been with Harkless, Garrett, and Sampson. No more we're dangerous in February. Get a team ready to play every year and win games. This is the hardest to hold him to, but asking one of a University's most public figures to tighten up his "excuses and distraction from the real issues" game in the media is not out of the question at the money he makes.

Nice post.

 

[paultzman]

"This is starting to get ridiculous. The Red Storm's administration has hemmed and hawed for almost a week on their head coach's future and that's not fair to Lavin or his staff. Despite reaching the NCAA Tournament for the second time in five years it's clear that St. John's is undecided whether it truly wants Lavin to continue. There were several reports on Wednesday that Lavin was in talks with the school for a multiyear extension, but sources told CBSSports.com that those reports may be premature.

A word to the wise: Decide what you want to do quickly. The longer it drags on the worse it looks for the university. A plethora of institutions have ended their seasons and announced coaching changes within a day of their final game, but it appears that things move at a slower pace at St. John's. I've always wondered why St. John's hasn't won an NCAA Tournament game since 1999. Now I think I'm beginning to understand. If you don't have an administration that has clarity and is in order, you can't win basketball games. The two go hand in hand."

From Jon Rothstein today. Some folks control the message better than others.

 

[Jack Williams]

Whatever they decide I hope Brandon Sampson will be a johnnie. Can't wait for the new face of SJU to suit up.

 

[sirvoo]

"This is starting to get ridiculous. The Red Storm's administration has hemmed and hawed for almost a week on their head coach's future and that's not fair to Lavin or his staff. Despite reaching the NCAA Tournament for the second time in five years it's clear that St. John's is undecided whether it truly wants Lavin to continue. There were several reports on Wednesday that Lavin was in talks with the school for a multiyear extension, but sources told CBSSports.com that those reports may be premature.

A word to the wise: Decide what you want to do quickly. The longer it drags on the worse it looks for the university. A plethora of institutions have ended their seasons and announced coaching changes within a day of their final game, but it appears that things move at a slower pace at St. John's. I've always wondered why St. John's hasn't won an NCAA Tournament game since 1999. Now I think I'm beginning to understand. If you don't have an administration that has clarity and is in order, you can't win basketball games. The two go hand in hand."

From Jon Rothstein today. Some folks control the message better than others.

he's absolutely right. most of us are either slightly favoring letting him go or slightly favoring an extension. There are 10 or so people on each side here who are strongly opinionated on his fate. But one thing we can all agree on is how horrible this is to drag it out and have reports on completely opposite sides of the spectrum leak. it's like a fat kid at the bakery taking 20 minutes to decide if he wants chocolate cake or a box of canoli. decide already!

 

[lawmanfan]

There is a reasonable basis to bring Lavin back and a reasonable basis to move on. I agree with Marillac, the critical analysis is "can SJU do better?" Right now, I feel that they can with Archie, Danny, or Bobby. But I'm also conscious of a grass is always greener consideration.

If Lavin is going to be back, while he has been one of the more polarizing figures for this program in recent memory, I think one thing most can agree on is that he has defined strengths and weaknesses. Can be said about many in all professions, but his are particularly acute.

Many are focused on financial contingencies in the extension, and for good reason. However I would also use this opportunity to hone in on those material shortcomings that have been, most importantly, consistently present and without much improvement over the course of his five years here. He should be accountable for continued deficiencies.

1. Shake up the staff. I don't like to see anyone lose a job, and this is not for punishment or because someone needs to be held responsible (especially one who isn't actually responsible). But because Lavin needs significant X/O help. Anyone who thinks otherwise should watch the SDSU game, the very last game for a group that largely had 4 years under his tutelage, on loop for 10 hours and tell me how you feel. His teams play hard but there is a lack of targeted, technical strategy on any sort of consistent basis. Moreover he has two guys on the staff who hadn't coached one minute of college basketball prior to SJU, and are more likely yes men than not. That now has to be viewed as a reach, the results have not been good enough to justify. Go get an assistant coach and a DOBO who have coaching and DOBO experience.

2. Zero tolerance policy on academic ineligibles. Stringent standard even for the most buttoned up coaches in today's college game, but Lavin hasn't earned any leeway. What he's earned is a zero tolerance policy since he can't come close to policing himself on the issue. By my count 7 ineligibles - 6 for the entire season - in his 4 full recruiting classes. This matters. How much better is last year's team with Thomas and ADR? Recruiting guys who are good but can't qualify does not cover up for an inability to recruit good players who can qualify. Some situations are outside of a coach's control, and again if this is 2-3 instances we aren't talking. But it's been an absolute epidemic during the Lavin era, a near every year occurrence, and it's bad publicity for the school and the program and unfair to the rest of the players on the team. Recruit kids who can get and stay eligible.

3. Results only. This is a basketball program, not an abstract mission of philosophical growth. The seniors are gone. No more incremental progress of 13 wins, 17 wins, 20 wins, 21 wins. No more what we could have been with Harkless, Garrett, and Sampson. No more we're dangerous in February. Get a team ready to play every year and win games. This is the hardest to hold him to, but asking one of a University's most public figures to tighten up his "excuses and distraction from the real issues" game in the media is not out of the question at the money he makes.

Good post. But if you are competing with me for the title of "consistently longest posts on redmen.com that include paragraphs and proper punctuation," you're doomed to disappointment.

 

[johnnycomelately]

Maybe the amateur hour aspect here is the social media/rumor mill component that has been thrown out, recklessly over the last 72 hours. Maybe, just maybe they school has weighed options, sent out feelers, etc. and concluded that Lavin, even with his shortcomings, is still the best option moving forward.

 

[sirvoo]

Maybe the amateur hour aspect here is the social media/rumor mill component that has been thrown out, recklessly over the last 72 hours. Maybe, just maybe they school has weighed options, sent out feelers, etc. and concluded that Lavin, even with his shortcomings, is still the best option moving forward.

Is that what's happened? Because I wouldn't have guessed it. I'll keep going with the comparisons of how ridiculous this is, it's like your girlfriend asking if you unconditionally love her, and you wait in dead silence for 2 minutes before saying yes.

 

[gman]

So it sounds like we are back at square one with no real news just rumors ranging all over the place.

My response to Rothstein would be that the schools that made quick moves probably knew long before their season end that their coach was out. There is probably legitimate debate going on. If we has missed the NCAA then maybe a move would have been made fast.

 

[paultzman]

Maybe the amateur hour aspect here is the social media/rumor mill component that has been thrown out, recklessly over the last 72 hours. Maybe, just maybe they school has weighed options, sent out feelers, etc. and concluded that Lavin, even with his shortcomings, is still the best option moving forward.

Certainly could be.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

This is amateur hour. The school should be absolutely be ashamed of itself. Honestly, there is a reason why our program has been the pits for years and it extends well beyond the head coach.

The University should have been prepared to make a decision immediately following the end of the season. Whether or not the team beat SDSU should have had no bearing on the decision. These conflicting reports about Lavin's future are an embarrassment.

If in fact Lavin is retained, there is little doubt in my mind that the relationship will be strained. Notwithstanding his public pronouncements, we will have a head coach that is resentful for how this is being handled. And whether you like Lavin or not, who could blame him for being peeved.

With all due respect, St. John's doesn't have to do anything. Lavin is under contract for one more season. Schools do not have to announce annually they intend to bring back coaches still under contract. In most cases it would actually be very weird. If his contract was up after this season, it would be a different story.

Our season ended less than a week ago. You guys need to relax. If they intent to let Lavin go, they'll announce it. If they extend him, they'll announce it. A reasonable time frame for a decision is Final Four weekend.

This is not an easy decision. Lavin didn't go 10-20 or 28-3. He didn't do anything awful to embarrass the school unlike some want everyone to believe. He graduated all of his seniors and his senior spoke glowingly about him the relationship they have with him. This call comes down to one question "Can St. John's do better?"

"Can St. John's do better" is the most sensible sentence I have read in the last few days. No hysteria, no predictions, no freaking out. That's what it should come down to. With Norm, you couldn't help but do better. With Lavin, it's hard to say. When it comes to recruiting, he could get hot again. I hope the admin has evaluated what is out there, and will extend if there are no better options.

To me, a realistic goal is, "Can we annually reside in the top 4 places of the Big East, and top 3 in most years?" If we are in the top 4 annually, even 8 out of 10 years, we'd get 8 bids in 10 years. From what we've seen of Lavin, can he deliver that?

Forget about becming one of the top teams in the country for a minute. Do any of us believe that Lavin can consistently make us one of the top teams in our conference?

Here is the troubling thing in my mind... The season that just ended (21-12, not a factor in the BE regular season or BET, one and done in the Dance) would have been considered mediocre to SJ fans not too long ago. Looie had those kind of seasons almost every year -- and every few years he put together better teams that actually made a little noise.

Here is the troubling thing in my mind....people still expect us to be that same program. I hate to break it to ya, but we are not that same program...things are different now. You said it was not too long ago where 21-12 would have been considered a mediocre season. News flash: that was 25-30 years ago!! Our 'glory days' were 25-30yrs ago. Looie have been gone for over 20yrs now.

 

[stjohnschris]

This is amateur hour. The school should be absolutely be ashamed of itself. Honestly, there is a reason why our program has been the pits for years and it extends well beyond the head coach.

The University should have been prepared to make a decision immediately following the end of the season. Whether or not the team beat SDSU should have had no bearing on the decision. These conflicting reports about Lavin's future are an embarrassment.

If in fact Lavin is retained, there is little doubt in my mind that the relationship will be strained. Notwithstanding his public pronouncements, we will have a head coach that is resentful for how this is being handled. And whether you like Lavin or not, who could blame him for being peeved.

With all due respect, St. John's doesn't have to do anything. Lavin is under contract for one more season. Schools do not have to announce annually they intend to bring back coaches still under contract. In most cases it would actually be very weird. If his contract was up after this season, it would be a different story.

Our season ended less than a week ago. You guys need to relax. If they intent to let Lavin go, they'll announce it. If they extend him, they'll announce it. A reasonable time frame for a decision is Final Four weekend.

This is not an easy decision. Lavin didn't go 10-20 or 28-3. He didn't do anything awful to embarrass the school unlike some want everyone to believe. He graduated all of his seniors and his senior spoke glowingly about him the relationship they have with him. This call comes down to one question "Can St. John's do better?"

"Can St. John's do better" is the most sensible sentence I have read in the last few days. No hysteria, no predictions, no freaking out. That's what it should come down to. With Norm, you couldn't help but do better. With Lavin, it's hard to say. When it comes to recruiting, he could get hot again. I hope the admin has evaluated what is out there, and will extend if there are no better options.

To me, a realistic goal is, "Can we annually reside in the top 4 places of the Big East, and top 3 in most years?" If we are in the top 4 annually, even 8 out of 10 years, we'd get 8 bids in 10 years. From what we've seen of Lavin, can he deliver that?

Forget about becming one of the top teams in the country for a minute. Do any of us believe that Lavin can consistently make us one of the top teams in our conference?

The answer to that question is obviously no.

I'm torn about this entire issue, because while I think we can do better than Lavin I also know from our recent experience (Norm, Mahoney) that we can do worse.

Here is the troubling thing in my mind... The season that just ended (21-12, not a factor in the BE regular season or BET, one and done in the Dance) would have been considered mediocre to SJ fans not too long ago. Looie had those kind of seasons almost every year -- and every few years he put together better teams that actually made a little noise.

With Lavin, I truly believe that the season we just had was the high water mark. We will not do better than this. These were all his players, mostly seniors, and were the remnants of his supposedly signature recruiting class. I do not believe he is capable of putting together a Final Four caliber team even one time (his recruiting is not nearly as good as advertised), and if he did get that level of talent to commit to SJ and actually get them eligible and on the court, I do not believe he is a good enough coach to actually get them there.

SO by extending Lavin, I believe we are signing on for an extended run of mediocrity. Some years we'll be pretty good and we'll be in the top half of the BE, and have the kind of year we just had, and some years (when the cupboard is bare, like next year will be) we will be in the bottom half of the BE and will be an afterthought.

The only hope I have in regards to your high water mark comment is that this roster was very far from perfect. I do envison a Lavin roster that is stocked with talent at all positions and a deeper bench of capable subs who will eventually become starters. Too much to ask?

That's really the only hope for improving...a stacked roster with a deep bench. He won't become a better in game coach, and he won't manage games any better, but at least we could make some nice runs if we get the type of talent he had at UCLA, who succeeded despite Lavin's shortcomings.

 

[ADORAZ]

Maybe the amateur hour aspect here is the social media/rumor mill component that has been thrown out, recklessly over the last 72 hours. Maybe, just maybe they school has weighed options, sent out feelers, etc. and concluded that Lavin, even with his shortcomings, is still the best option moving forward.

That's fine and all but there's no excuse for this being done so late. For example, it's rumored some people want a "SJU legend"- that's the type of thing they could have figured out weeks ago if Mullin/Jackson would be interested in the job.

Now if they end up signing Lavin it's very clear they don't have complete confidence in the hire. Not good when that is in the public spotlight.

 

[SJU1512]

There is a reasonable basis to bring Lavin back and a reasonable basis to move on. I agree with Marillac, the critical analysis is "can SJU do better?" Right now, I feel that they can with Archie, Danny, or Bobby. But I'm also conscious of a grass is always greener consideration.

If Lavin is going to be back, while he has been one of the more polarizing figures for this program in recent memory, I think one thing most can agree on is that he has defined strengths and weaknesses. Can be said about many in all professions, but his are particularly acute.

Many are focused on financial contingencies in the extension, and for good reason. However I would also use this opportunity to hone in on those material shortcomings that have been, most importantly, consistently present and without much improvement over the course of his five years here. He should be accountable for continued deficiencies.

1. Shake up the staff. I don't like to see anyone lose a job, and this is not for punishment or because someone needs to be held responsible (especially one who isn't actually responsible). But because Lavin needs significant X/O help. Anyone who thinks otherwise should watch the SDSU game, the very last game for a group that largely had 4 years under his tutelage, on loop for 10 hours and tell me how you feel. His teams play hard but there is a lack of targeted, technical strategy on any sort of consistent basis. Moreover he has two guys on the staff who hadn't coached one minute of college basketball prior to SJU, and are more likely yes men than not. That now has to be viewed as a reach, the results have not been good enough to justify. Go get an assistant coach and a DOBO who have coaching and DOBO experience.

2. Zero tolerance policy on academic ineligibles. Stringent standard even for the most buttoned up coaches in today's college game, but Lavin hasn't earned any leeway. What he's earned is a zero tolerance policy since he can't come close to policing himself on the issue. By my count 7 ineligibles - 6 for the entire season - in his 4 full recruiting classes. This matters. How much better is last year's team with Thomas and ADR? Recruiting guys who are good but can't qualify does not cover up for an inability to recruit good players who can qualify. Some situations are outside of a coach's control, and again if this is 2-3 instances we aren't talking. But it's been an absolute epidemic during the Lavin era, a near every year occurrence, and it's bad publicity for the school and the program and unfair to the rest of the players on the team. Recruit kids who can get and stay eligible.

3. Results only. This is a basketball program, not an abstract mission of philosophical growth. The seniors are gone. No more incremental progress of 13 wins, 17 wins, 20 wins, 21 wins. No more what we could have been with Harkless, Garrett, and Sampson. No more we're dangerous in February. Get a team ready to play every year and win games. This is the hardest to hold him to, but asking one of a University's most public figures to tighten up his "excuses and distraction from the real issues" game in the media is not out of the question at the money he makes.

Good post. But if you are competing with me for the title of "consistently longest posts on redmen.com that include paragraphs and proper punctuation," you're doomed to disappointment.

Nolo contendere! Know I need to tighten it up. Just feel so strongly that we take greatest possible advantage of this opportunity, whether it's staying with or moving on from Lavin, to effect change so that we don't have another 5 years of decent results with organized chaos on and off the court. I don't often have coherent thoughts but when I do I try to articulate them!

 

[beast of the east]

Very fair prescription for improvement.

I still subscribe to the notion that contract extension negotiations have not really begun & there has been information out there possibly reflecting desires of one side of equation. Prudently waiting for indication from SJU that there is accord.

In the event that extension is given, I agree there needs to be some tangible and reasonable changes & distinct benchmarks for improvement. Who will monitor such, is the 64 million dollar question.

If meetings with Lavin have already occurred, I am guessing that SJU is stipulating some things that Lavin isn't ready to accept. I know some of the people involved and they know how to drive a hard bargain, but at the same time successfully complete a transaction.

 

[lawmanfan]

There is a reasonable basis to bring Lavin back and a reasonable basis to move on. I agree with Marillac, the critical analysis is "can SJU do better?" Right now, I feel that they can with Archie, Danny, or Bobby. But I'm also conscious of a grass is always greener consideration.

If Lavin is going to be back, while he has been one of the more polarizing figures for this program in recent memory, I think one thing most can agree on is that he has defined strengths and weaknesses. Can be said about many in all professions, but his are particularly acute.

Many are focused on financial contingencies in the extension, and for good reason. However I would also use this opportunity to hone in on those material shortcomings that have been, most importantly, consistently present and without much improvement over the course of his five years here. He should be accountable for continued deficiencies.

1. Shake up the staff. I don't like to see anyone lose a job, and this is not for punishment or because someone needs to be held responsible (especially one who isn't actually responsible). But because Lavin needs significant X/O help. Anyone who thinks otherwise should watch the SDSU game, the very last game for a group that largely had 4 years under his tutelage, on loop for 10 hours and tell me how you feel. His teams play hard but there is a lack of targeted, technical strategy on any sort of consistent basis. Moreover he has two guys on the staff who hadn't coached one minute of college basketball prior to SJU, and are more likely yes men than not. That now has to be viewed as a reach, the results have not been good enough to justify. Go get an assistant coach and a DOBO who have coaching and DOBO experience.

2. Zero tolerance policy on academic ineligibles. Stringent standard even for the most buttoned up coaches in today's college game, but Lavin hasn't earned any leeway. What he's earned is a zero tolerance policy since he can't come close to policing himself on the issue. By my count 7 ineligibles - 6 for the entire season - in his 4 full recruiting classes. This matters. How much better is last year's team with Thomas and ADR? Recruiting guys who are good but can't qualify does not cover up for an inability to recruit good players who can qualify. Some situations are outside of a coach's control, and again if this is 2-3 instances we aren't talking. But it's been an absolute epidemic during the Lavin era, a near every year occurrence, and it's bad publicity for the school and the program and unfair to the rest of the players on the team. Recruit kids who can get and stay eligible.

3. Results only. This is a basketball program, not an abstract mission of philosophical growth. The seniors are gone. No more incremental progress of 13 wins, 17 wins, 20 wins, 21 wins. No more what we could have been with Harkless, Garrett, and Sampson. No more we're dangerous in February. Get a team ready to play every year and win games. This is the hardest to hold him to, but asking one of a University's most public figures to tighten up his "excuses and distraction from the real issues" game in the media is not out of the question at the money he makes.

Good post. But if you are competing with me for the title of "consistently longest posts on redmen.com that include paragraphs and proper punctuation," you're doomed to disappointment.

Nolo contendere! Know I need to tighten it up. Just feel so strongly that we take greatest possible advantage of this opportunity, whether it's staying with or moving on from Lavin, to effect change so that we don't have another 5 years of decent results with organized chaos on and off the court. I don't often have coherent thoughts but when I do I try to articulate them!

Couldn't agree more, though I don't see how you can have both Lavin and reduce organized chaos on the court.

No complaints about the length or coherence of your posts from me. Folks who want more than just a sound bite will read them, and as for the rest, it's their loss if they don't.

 

[ADORAZ]

This whole fiasco makes it seem like we are extending damaged goods. In the days following the NCAA loss I felt we should extend Lavin (and voted that way in the poll). Then the deafening silence came and finally the rumors that he would be out. By that time I thought "well, maybe they know something I don't. Maybe they have a big hire lined up. Maybe Lavin's recruiting class isn't looking so hot". I spoke to a few people and they all agreed it would be best if Lavin went. We got excited for possibilities. Now he might be extended? That doesn't have quite the same luster it did just a few days ago perception wise.

This school needs to show CONFIDENCE in their decision, not just for the fans, not just for Lavin's confidence going forward, but for the recruits. Maybe I'm overreacting, Lavin is extended, Diallo signs and we get a great class. But every day that goes by that's looking more unlikely.