Lavin parting ways with St.John's

And Rothstien's source is? By the way my admin tells me she read somewhere that Obama is seeing Beyonce on the side.
 
OMG what a bunch of Drama Queens. The tourney is not even done, its not even a week since we lost, we are over reacting to a lot of internet chatter and the sky has fallen. I feel like I am listening to a bunch of Mike Greenbergs where everything that happened last night is the most important thing in the world until tomorrow when he changes his mind and does a 180;. Let me ask has the university posted anything? Why do you think you are ENTITLED to know the inner workings the second it happens. I feel like the jet forums calling everything a circus because of an inflammatory NY post article. Take a deep breath, enjoy the rest of the tourney, let things work themselves out (unless you want to donate 25 million nothing you saw will make the slightest difference) and comment after its done. Your ulcers will thank you.
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This isn't just some impatient fans. Rothstein noted in his article that the way the SJU administration is handling this is unprofessional and looks bad on the program.
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That's understood, but I would rather have a bit more time taken to make sure all parties are clear on expectations than a rushed contract to satisfy the media or all of us here on the forums, blogs, and twitter. In all likelihood, 60 seconds after a decision is made, one way or another, the fact that the decision took 6 or 10 days will be the furthest thing from anyone's mind and we'll all immediately focus on the future.
 
Why are we all worried and impatient? Without Lavin, Sampson might be gone. CO and Sheed might be gone regardless. That would mean we'd have ZERO impact players for next year. At best now we have 2 impact players next year (both Sheed and CO won't return, leaving Sampson). We need a coach ASAP and it doesn't help with all these coaches signing extensions or interviewing at other schools.
 
I have to say that the more I read, the more I am in agreement with this.

We were eliminated roughly 132 hours - yes HOURS - ago. Some of those hours Lavin spent with the team and his coaches and traveling back from Charlotte, other of those hours all parties involved either slept or attended to other business. And yes, in those 132 hours, there was at least some time where the principals involved met and talked, that much is known.

So they spoke. And just like us, they know it's in everyone's best interest to wrap this up, and they will.

My advice? Exhale. It's going to be fine. Negotiations are not always quick, nor should they be.[/quote]

And who of us would make a contract or sign a contract without our lawyers reviewing it. This may take 2 - 3 days in itself. Tell a lawyer to hurry up some internet knucklehead is impatient for news.
 
OMG what a bunch of Drama Queens. The tourney is not even done, its not even a week since we lost, we are over reacting to a lot of internet chatter and the sky has fallen. I feel like I am listening to a bunch of Mike Greenbergs where everything that happened last night is the most important thing in the world until tomorrow when he changes his mind and does a 180;. Let me ask has the university posted anything? Why do you think you are ENTITLED to know the inner workings the second it happens. I feel like the jet forums calling everything a circus because of an inflammatory NY post article. Take a deep breath, enjoy the rest of the tourney, let things work themselves out (unless you want to donate 25 million nothing you saw will make the slightest difference) and comment after its done. Your ulcers will thank you.
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I have to say that the more I read, the more I am in agreement with this.

We were eliminated roughly 132 hours - yes HOURS - ago. Some of those hours Lavin spent with the team and his coaches and traveling back from Charlotte, other of those hours all parties involved either slept or attended to other business. And yes, in those 132 hours, there was at least some time where the principals involved met and talked, that much is known.

So they spoke. And just like us, they know it's in everyone's best interest to wrap this up, and they will.

My advice? Exhale. It's going to be fine. Negotiations are not always quick, nor should they be.
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Well you know it kinda sucks when other programs are taking swift action and scooping up the good candidates and the press is making us seem clueless
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True on the candidates portion, but your point about the press is only valid if you allow it to be valid. The press can have whatever opinion they want and while SJU admin needs to be mindful of impressions, they also have to be mindful that reacting to the press has historically been a very, very bad way to make decisions and manage a sports franchise. (References: See "Mets, New York"; and "Jets, New York".)
 
FYI, my money is on lavin and company holding up the process, based on the overall changes possibly presented in the proposed contract (low buyout and lower salary). I've based this opinion on the following list (attached link), which helps to establish a basis for comparison. Based on Lavin last 5 years it hard to argue that we have completely overpaid, since we are not a top 25 program. IMO, I'm sure the school might be happy with the overall performance of the program and willing to offer an extension, but certainly they are being told to offer a compensation appropriate with the results. Lavin probably agrees to some sort of a cut, but not certainly not 40 - 50%.

This is the list from the 2014 NCAA, so lavin is not listed... Based on his performance, its hard to argue that he should be compensated within the top 40 on this list, since 25 to 30 of these coaches are regulars in the NCAA tournament every year and their teams are performing at a much higher level. If lavin wants to point to certain challenges (excuses) and poor luck, the structure is simply modified to be incentive driven, but the base still should be below 1.2 million.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach
 
OMG what a bunch of Drama Queens. The tourney is not even done, its not even a week since we lost, we are over reacting to a lot of internet chatter and the sky has fallen. I feel like I am listening to a bunch of Mike Greenbergs where everything that happened last night is the most important thing in the world until tomorrow when he changes his mind and does a 180;. Let me ask has the university posted anything? Why do you think you are ENTITLED to know the inner workings the second it happens. I feel like the jet forums calling everything a circus because of an inflammatory NY post article. Take a deep breath, enjoy the rest of the tourney, let things work themselves out (unless you want to donate 25 million nothing you saw will make the slightest difference) and comment after its done. Your ulcers will thank you.
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This isn't just some impatient fans. Rothstein noted in his article that the way the SJU administration is handling this is unprofessional and looks bad on the program.
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Rothstein calls Lavin "Lavs." He's not a journalist, he's a groupie.
 
FYI, my money is on lavin and company holding up the process, based on the overall changes possibly presented in the proposed contract (low buyout and lower salary). I've based this opinion on the following list (attached link), which helps to establish a basis for comparison. Based on Lavin last 5 years it hard to argue that we have completely overpaid, since we are not a top 25 program. IMO, I'm sure the school might be happy with the overall performance of the program and willing to offer an extension, but certainly they are being told to offer a compensation appropriate with the results. Lavin probably agrees to some sort of a cut, but not certainly not 40 - 50%.

This is the list from the 2014 NCAA, so lavin is not listed... Based on his performance, its hard to argue that he should be compensated within the top 40 on this list, since 25 to 30 of these coaches are regulars in the NCAA tournament every year and their teams are performing at a much higher level. If lavin wants to point to certain challenges (excuses) and poor luck, the structure is simply modified to be incentive driven, but the base still should be below 1.2 million.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach
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Great post.

Sure looks like $1 million is a competitive BE salary.

Though I am sure that many of the coaches listed have income that is not shown in the article (i.e. Boeheim).
 
Maybe the amateur hour aspect here is the social media/rumor mill component that has been thrown out, recklessly over the last 72 hours. Maybe, just maybe they school has weighed options, sent out feelers, etc. and concluded that Lavin, even with his shortcomings, is still the best option moving forward.
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That's fine and all but there's no excuse for this being done so late. For example, it's rumored some people want a "SJU legend"- that's the type of thing they could have figured out weeks ago if Mullin/Jackson would be interested in the job.

Now if they end up signing Lavin it's very clear they don't have complete confidence in the hire. Not good when that is in the public spotlight.
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Don't you think that they would at least owe it to Lavin to wait until the end of the season before they started their search? It's just a respect thing.

For one, he is still a person, and it doesn't matter what profession you are in, no one deserves to have their replacement sought out while they are still there, unless they are voluntarily leaving. Secondly, he has done nothing to tarnish the name of the program. I get the suspensions and the ineligible recruits and what whatnot. But I don't think that there is anyone out there that thinks, "wow, st johns, what a dirty program", and either way he has still put us in a better position than we were in 5yrs ago. His only fault was not winning enough basketball games. Finally, what would have happened when Lavin found out that they were looking to replace him? And I'm guessing that he would have found out about it. Do you really think he would have put the time and effort necessary at the end of the season?
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I disagree. They wouldn't need to make the search public or anything if they did it a few weeks ago. I think what they're doing now to Lavin is a lot worse. We are approaching 1 week after the tournament and he still doesn't know if he's wanted and now it is out there in the public. It's embarrassing for him and the University. Would've been easier on him if the decision was made earlier.
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You don't know what they told Lavin. They could have told him to go take a vacation after a long year, when you come back we will propose an extension that we believe you will like. Someone else indicated that they don't have to make every decision public and I agree. In this age of instant news people take any grain of news and spin it the way they see fit. Jayon1 says Lavin is in trouble. It's a tweet so it must be true, why haven't we talked to Archie yet. We are wasting time. How many times have I see the word Patience. We will be fine....
 
FYI, my money is on lavin and company holding up the process, based on the overall changes possibly presented in the proposed contract (low buyout and lower salary). I've based this opinion on the following list (attached link), which helps to establish a basis for comparison. Based on Lavin last 5 years it hard to argue that we have completely overpaid, since we are not a top 25 program. IMO, I'm sure the school might be happy with the overall performance of the program and willing to offer an extension, but certainly they are being told to offer a compensation appropriate with the results. Lavin probably agrees to some sort of a cut, but not certainly not 40 - 50%.

This is the list from the 2014 NCAA, so lavin is not listed... Based on his performance, its hard to argue that he should be compensated within the top 40 on this list, since 25 to 30 of these coaches are regulars in the NCAA tournament every year and their teams are performing at a much higher level. If lavin wants to point to certain challenges (excuses) and poor luck, the structure is simply modified to be incentive driven, but the base still should be below 1.2 million.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach
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According to this, Archie Miller makes $335,000. I find that hard to believe.
 
FYI, my money is on lavin and company holding up the process, based on the overall changes possibly presented in the proposed contract (low buyout and lower salary). I've based this opinion on the following list (attached link), which helps to establish a basis for comparison. Based on Lavin last 5 years it hard to argue that we have completely overpaid, since we are not a top 25 program. IMO, I'm sure the school might be happy with the overall performance of the program and willing to offer an extension, but certainly they are being told to offer a compensation appropriate with the results. Lavin probably agrees to some sort of a cut, but not certainly not 40 - 50%.

This is the list from the 2014 NCAA, so lavin is not listed... Based on his performance, its hard to argue that he should be compensated within the top 40 on this list, since 25 to 30 of these coaches are regulars in the NCAA tournament every year and their teams are performing at a much higher level. If lavin wants to point to certain challenges (excuses) and poor luck, the structure is simply modified to be incentive driven, but the base still should be below 1.2 million.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach
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According to this, Archie Miller makes $335,000. I find that hard to believe.
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This is from last year.
 
I disagree. They wouldn't need to make the search public or anything if they did it a few weeks ago. I think what they're doing now to Lavin is a lot worse. We are approaching 1 week after the tournament and he still doesn't know if he's wanted and now it is out there in the public.
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The question being answered is not whether Lavin is wanted. He's not wanted. The question is whether it's less trouble to keep him than it is to blow the whole thing up and start over again - whether the suckers will continue to go to games and whether the donors will continue to contribute despite his obvious incompetence. If this were merely a basketball decision he'd be gone.

It's embarrassing for him
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If that's your worry, don't be: he's not capable of embarrassment. He's shameless.
 
This whole fiasco makes it seem like we are extending damaged goods. In the days following the NCAA loss I felt we should extend Lavin (and voted that way in the poll). Then the deafening silence came and finally the rumors that he would be out. By that time I thought "well, maybe they know something I don't. Maybe they have a big hire lined up. Maybe Lavin's recruiting class isn't looking so hot". I spoke to a few people and they all agreed it would be best if Lavin went. We got excited for possibilities. Now he might be extended? That doesn't have quite the same luster it did just a few days ago perception wise.

This school needs to show CONFIDENCE in their decision, not just for the fans, not just for Lavin's confidence going forward, but for the recruits. Maybe I'm overreacting, Lavin is extended, Diallo signs and we get a great class. But every day that goes by that's looking more unlikely.
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It's been said before, but patience.
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So do you think Lavin is coming back, or we are negotiating with Smart/Miller/Mullin/whoever behind the scenes? Because if it isn't the latter this is only a bad thing. I don't really care if they save a bit of money on an extended contract.
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Patience +10
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Here is my personal analysis of the situation. Keep in mind, I have zero connections to the school or anyone affiliated with the basketball program, so take it with a grain of salt....

If Lavin is going to be extended, there is no logical explanation as to why an announcement has not been made yet. It just doesn't make sense. At the very least, you would think that the school would have released a statement along the lines of, "Coach Lavin has agreed to a contract extension. Full details will come at a later date once everything is finalized."

So that lead me to the next logical assumption: Lavin is gone and we are getting a new coach. Well then why the delay in making an announcement on who that is? If it were any coach whose season has ended already, I believe that an announcement would have been made by now. So that means that the new coach/target must still have a team playing. Looking at the remaining field left in the tourny, there are only really two options: Greg Marshall of Wichita State or Larry Krystkowiak of Utah. I just don't see anyone else leaving their program to come here.

My prediction: Lavin is out, and either Marshall or Krystowiak is in. Just waiting for the right coach to be knocked out of the tournament first.
 
The media has a job, and that's to provide content. The only people that truly know what's going on are Lavin and his agent, and a select few at SJU. They will tell the truth when the are good and ready. Anything leaked is just to keep the media busy. The guys that cover college basketball in the NYC area had a 50% chance to get the Briscoe signing right with the flip of a coin. Using their "sources", it seemed like more than 50% got it wrong. Nothing to do but wait it out.
 
OMG what a bunch of Drama Queens. The tourney is not even done, its not even a week since we lost, we are over reacting to a lot of internet chatter and the sky has fallen. I feel like I am listening to a bunch of Mike Greenbergs where everything that happened last night is the most important thing in the world until tomorrow when he changes his mind and does a 180;. Let me ask has the university posted anything? Why do you think you are ENTITLED to know the inner workings the second it happens. I feel like the jet forums calling everything a circus because of an inflammatory NY post article. Take a deep breath, enjoy the rest of the tourney, let things work themselves out (unless you want to donate 25 million nothing you saw will make the slightest difference) and comment after its done. Your ulcers will thank you.
Click to expand...

I have to say that the more I read, the more I am in agreement with this.

We were eliminated roughly 132 hours - yes HOURS - ago. Some of those hours Lavin spent with the team and his coaches and traveling back from Charlotte, other of those hours all parties involved either slept or attended to other business. And yes, in those 132 hours, there was at least some time where the principals involved met and talked, that much is known.

So they spoke. And just like us, they know it's in everyone's best interest to wrap this up, and they will.

My advice? Exhale. It's going to be fine. Negotiations are not always quick, nor should they be.
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Well you know it kinda sucks when other programs are taking swift action and scooping up the good candidates and the press is making us seem clueless
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Just curious, since I am not paying attention. How many programs fired a coach after making the NCAAs? If none, then they had a long time to plan because their decision could have been made months ago.
 
Actually, "a source"!cose to the school told a member of the press that an extension is being negotiated but it was discounted here as Lavin's agent spreading misinformation in order to give them some leverage. No one takes days to announce a firing.
 
Beast louis Orr was fired by seton hall when they made the NCAA. There is precedent, heck sju fired fran almost two months after he brought the redstorm to the NCAA after a 5 year drought.
 
I disagree. They wouldn't need to make the search public or anything if they did it a few weeks ago. I think what they're doing now to Lavin is a lot worse. We are approaching 1 week after the tournament and he still doesn't know if he's wanted and now it is out there in the public.
Click to expand...

The question being answered is not whether Lavin is wanted. He's not wanted. The question is whether it's less trouble to keep him than it is to blow the whole thing up and start over again - whether the suckers will continue to go to games and whether the donors will continue to contribute despite his obvious incompetence. If this were merely a basketball decision he'd be gone.

It's embarrassing for him
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If that's your worry, don't be: he's not capable of embarrassment. He's shameless.
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My only regret is that I have but one "thank-you" to give for this post.

I may have to re-do my redmen.com bracket.
 
Beast louis Orr was fired by seton hall when they made the NCAA. There is precedent, heck sju fired fran almost two months after he brought the redstorm to the NCAA after a 5 year drought.
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No, sorry for the loose language. I meant which of the schools who acted quickly this week had made a quick exit for the first weekend of the NCAAs?
 
Beast louis Orr was fired by seton hall when they made the NCAA. There is precedent, heck sju fired fran almost two months after he brought the redstorm to the NCAA after a 5 year drought.
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Orr made 3 tournaments. Since his firing they have made 2 NIT's in nine seasons never close to NCAA's.

A lesson for us
 
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