hnkcolumbia
Well-known member
I think the timing of the comment to the Post and subsequent article has to do with recruiting.
Lavin Contract Extension
- Thread starter redstorm80
- Start date
Glass half-full: It’s a relief to see that Lavin wants to stay here, and build something. I think SJU needs him just as much as he needs SJU. He’d never get this big a job again if he were to leave after his initial contract. Few coaches have the guts to take a college job in a pro sports city, and he is one of him.
Glass half-empty: What in the world has he done to earn a 6-year extension? I understand he missed a season, and he needs to show future recruits some stability, but where are the recruits? He played the “youngest team in the country” card for quite a while, but at least that was Norm’s fault. In 2015, it’ll be on him. There is no excuse for not staggering the classes… I certainly feel for those that have suffered losses, but this recent slide would have been sustainable if Lav had settled on a rotation before the second half of the season. If they don’t win today, they'll likely miss the NCAA’s. What happens next season if, God forbid, anything happens to Jordan? Then Steve plays PGIV at PG, and he’s looking at one NCAA bid in 6 seasons. Is that worth a 6-year extension worth north of $2M/year?
Without knowing what’s happening on the inside, I hope this is a positive. Let’s beat Marquette!!
Glass half-empty: What in the world has he done to earn a 6-year extension? I understand he missed a season, and he needs to show future recruits some stability, but where are the recruits? He played the “youngest team in the country” card for quite a while, but at least that was Norm’s fault. In 2015, it’ll be on him. There is no excuse for not staggering the classes… I certainly feel for those that have suffered losses, but this recent slide would have been sustainable if Lav had settled on a rotation before the second half of the season. If they don’t win today, they'll likely miss the NCAA’s. What happens next season if, God forbid, anything happens to Jordan? Then Steve plays PGIV at PG, and he’s looking at one NCAA bid in 6 seasons. Is that worth a 6-year extension worth north of $2M/year?
Without knowing what’s happening on the inside, I hope this is a positive. Let’s beat Marquette!!
Being a very long time SJU fan and grad I'll give my reasons for feeling lucky that Lavin was hired and extended.
When Lapchick was forced out SJU hired Looie who at the age of 40 had some 8 yrs as a SJU ass't and 8 yrs as a high school coach. Mahoney was a failure at Manhattan, Jarvis claim to fame was being Ewing's high school and had some success recruiting European players to GW, Roberts coached Queens college and was and is fortunate to have Bill Self as a mentor.
When Lavin was announced I couldn't believe it. Who agreed to pay his salary when McKillop, Baron etc would have signed for a third of that.
The grass is always greener on the other side.
When Lapchick was forced out SJU hired Looie who at the age of 40 had some 8 yrs as a SJU ass't and 8 yrs as a high school coach. Mahoney was a failure at Manhattan, Jarvis claim to fame was being Ewing's high school and had some success recruiting European players to GW, Roberts coached Queens college and was and is fortunate to have Bill Self as a mentor.
When Lavin was announced I couldn't believe it. Who agreed to pay his salary when McKillop, Baron etc would have signed for a third of that.
The grass is always greener on the other side.
Also, expectations need to be tempered to an extent. St. John's simply DOES NOT have the resources of state schools of and the support of some of the other private institutions. Sure we have the history, but how many recruits care about history? Sure we have NYC, but that advantage has faded over the past two decades as a recruiting tool. While he might not be the best coach, I'm happy to have someone who has certainly brought in elite talent, made us relevant again, and puts us within striking distance of the NCAA tournament.
Avon Barksdale
Member
So what are the expectations you have for Coach Lavin? And what is considered a success or failure in your eyes?
As an aside, I would also say Brian Mahoney was a worse coach than Jarvis and possibly Norm. An entire thread can be dedicated to Mahoney's ineptitude.....considering that there was no probation looming and SJU was in good standing when he took the job, he failed completely and he also recruited the most disappointing recruiting class in college basketball history.
in 22 seasons since Louie retired 6 NCAA appearances and we have gone through 5 coaches not counting Kevin Clark. A sex scandal, a coach fired for dropping his pants in front of the players, NCAA probation, 10 seasons under .500.....so what are real expectations for Lavin?
My expectations are perennial top 25 with an occasional deep NCAA run. I'm certainly not expecting us to be Duke , but I want the number in front of our name. I'm not saying we are going to get there ,because I think the verdict is still out on Lavin, but that's where I want us to be.
MarkRedman
Well-known member
When I started at St John's, we were #4 in all time wins
Now we are #7 and falling
Looking at our storied past, we should be a top 25/borderline top 25 team every year
We should finish in the top half of our league every year
We should make a post season tournament (NCAA/NIT) every year, with the NIT being less the frequent of the two
An occasional Sweet 16 or better would be nice as well
I was alive for both Final Fours but only really remember one of them
I would love to see a least a third in my lifetime
Now we are #7 and falling
Looking at our storied past, we should be a top 25/borderline top 25 team every year
We should finish in the top half of our league every year
We should make a post season tournament (NCAA/NIT) every year, with the NIT being less the frequent of the two
An occasional Sweet 16 or better would be nice as well
I was alive for both Final Fours but only really remember one of them
I would love to see a least a third in my lifetime
Avon Barksdale
Member
my point exactly.
westchesterjoe
Active member
Disagree, it's not just Final 4's that make a storied program. We have a pedigree past of over 100 years that few schools can match, less than 10schools
Bad Basketball ,Inept Coaching and University Mismanagement over the last 2o years or, since Louie retired have tarnished our heritage. Among fans across the Nation, we were once regarded as a top tier program. That has not been the case for way too long now.
Making the NCAA once every 5-6 years is not what I would call re-building a Program and, that is what Lavin was brought here to do.
And, after 3 seasons, I believe the word Elite Recruits can be re-worded as to the Harrison, Pointer, etc class. They haven't performed as a Elite group of players.
Bad Basketball ,Inept Coaching and University Mismanagement over the last 2o years or, since Louie retired have tarnished our heritage. Among fans across the Nation, we were once regarded as a top tier program. That has not been the case for way too long now.
Making the NCAA once every 5-6 years is not what I would call re-building a Program and, that is what Lavin was brought here to do.
And, after 3 seasons, I believe the word Elite Recruits can be re-worded as to the Harrison, Pointer, etc class. They haven't performed as a Elite group of players.
tom in salem
Well-known member
Credit where credit is due.
Kudos coach.
Sat Pointer, went to a zone and finally, went with the big lineup.
A+.
Kudos coach.
Sat Pointer, went to a zone and finally, went with the big lineup.
A+.
beast of the east
Active member
For me, the question is (I think), with Lavin is it more likely we will be in the top half of the big east each year, or the bottom half? Do you expect that in a reasonable number of years, we will contend for the Big east conf title? Can Lavin deliver 5 or 6 NCAA bids over a ten year period. I think the answer to all of those questions is yes, and I don't know who we would hire that could offer the hope of more.
My expectations for this program are exactly Steinfeld stated in his post. Yes you can throw BM in the mix as one of our worse coaches, I won't argue with that. But what exactly does BM have to do with Lavin? You really have to stop judging Lavin against some of the worse coaches ever.
beast of the east
Active member
you may know better than I. How many NCAA tourney appearances did we have under Carnesecca?
beast of the east
Active member
I think 18 is correct. Thanks. With the growth in media, mid majors have been able to recruit much better, and there is more recruiting competition because of all of the conferences. After the drought we've had making 5 or 6 tourneys out of 10, compared to 7 or 8 under Carnesecca seems a reasonable expectation, at least to me.
Unless it is a rebuilding year anything but a NCAA tourney bid should be a disappointment. To me 7+ NCAAs out of 10 is acceptable. The NIT outside of a rebuilding year is not acceptable. The last 2 years were rebuilding years.
Am I happy with Lavin, yes. We are trending in the right direction. We have the recruits and he is a great ambassador for the program but it is to be determined if he delivers.
I think extending his contract is premature - if he makes tourney then yes. There is no guarantee of anything next year. Where are all the posters getting the 6 year extension from? I only read extension.
Am I happy with Lavin, yes. We are trending in the right direction. We have the recruits and he is a great ambassador for the program but it is to be determined if he delivers.
I think extending his contract is premature - if he makes tourney then yes. There is no guarantee of anything next year. Where are all the posters getting the 6 year extension from? I only read extension.