Kudos to the Coaching Staff

[otis]

Not a Lavin fan, but he did coax an NCAA bid out of a very short bench last year......

Hey East....

1. Whose fault is it that the TV Announcer had a "short bench last year"?

2. If CJ has a lack of talent as some in this thread describe him be be have, then why did the TV Announcer offer him a scholarship and renew it on 2 occasions?

3. Who other than the TV Announcer is responsible for the bare roster that Coach Mullin inherited this season?

 

[beast of the east]

He had chances before and flubbed them

Jones played in one game as a freshman, for 2 minutes.

Last year he played 124 minutes, 6 minutes a game. He had 13 DNPs. He played 48 minutes total after January 1st, 25 of those in two games. It does not seem like he had that many chances to flub, and anyway why is his alleged flubbing last year more relevant than his actual performance this year, in increased minutes, under a different staff.

There are three guys on this years team who look like completely different players: Balamou, Albiveickth, and Jones. It could be that they were always competent and no one ever noticed, or maybe Lavin stealth-improved them, or it could be that the new hall of fame staff is developing itself some players. In any event Jones has been a pleasant surprise and talk of throwing him overboard is nuts.

Wow, you are just like the Elias Sports Bureau. CJ has played horribly in prior years whenever he got the chance. He would do one decent thing, then make 3 mistakes before getting yanked.

There is nothing to complain about his performance this year except to say its been mostly against low D1 competition, and we've been losing some of those games in abundance. As I've said before. Reserve judgment after 8 Big East games. The only one out of the three you mentioned who is likely to have natural actual improvement is Amar, as a more experienced sophomore. But you also have to weigh that this is a bad team, and before giving credit to these three cited guys, with the talent such as Sima, Yakwe, and Mussini, we'd have a lot more wins if those guys were Big East caliber players.

 

[we are sju]

Not a Lavin fan, but he did coax an NCAA bid out of a very short bench last year......

Hey East....

1. Whose fault is it that the TV Announcer had a "short bench last year"?

2. If CJ has a lack of talent as some in this thread describe him be be have, then why did the TV Announcer offer him a scholarship and renew it on 2 occasions?

3. Who other than the TV Announcer is responsible for the bare roster that Coach Mullin inherited this season?

When was Don Pardo the ST John's coach?

 

[beast of the east]

Not a Lavin fan, but he did coax an NCAA bid out of a very short bench last year......

Hey East....

1. Whose fault is it that the TV Announcer had a "short bench last year"?

2. If CJ has a lack of talent as some in this thread describe him be be have, then why did the TV Announcer offer him a scholarship and renew it on 2 occasions?

3. Who other than the TV Announcer is responsible for the bare roster that Coach Mullin inherited this season?

1. see above. Lavin.
2. he offered him a schoalrship because he has a Big East body and showed flashes over time. He got renewed because very few undergrad scholarship players are drops with remaining eligibility, and you can also see 1.
3. Also see above.

 

[Knight]

Our staff has been recruiting very hard-kudos for those efforts. Some thanks are also due to the improvement of our returnees. Staff must have had a role in their improving play IMO.

 

[fun]

Wow, you are just like the Elias Sports Bureau.

They're called facts. If you were better acquainted with them you wouldn't look silly so often.

CJ has played horribly in prior years whenever he got the chance. He would do one decent thing, then make 3 mistakes before getting yanked.

No. He played a prior year, singular, not years plural, and in single prior season he played 120 minutes, the equivalent of three games. He played little not because he was horrible, but because his coach was desperate to win right then, because he wanted a contract exten$ion. By doing so he put his own interests ahead of those of his players and his program and he played the price at the end of the year when Obekpa went AWOL and he no one with any experience to turn to and so threw Jones to the wolves.

 

[mjmaherjr]

He had chances before and flubbed them

Jones played in one game as a freshman, for 2 minutes.

Last year he played 124 minutes, 6 minutes a game. He had 13 DNPs. He played 48 minutes total after January 1st, 25 of those in two games. It does not seem like he had that many chances to flub, and anyway why is his alleged flubbing last year more relevant than his actual performance this year, in increased minutes, under a different staff.

There are three guys on this years team who look like completely different players: Balamou, Albiveickth, and Jones. It could be that they were always competent and no one ever noticed, or maybe Lavin stealth-improved them, or it could be that the new hall of fame staff is developing itself some players. In any event Jones has been a pleasant surprise and talk of throwing him overboard is nuts.

in fairness mjmaherjr was on the felix bandwagon originally then fell off at some point but hopped back on when Lavin screwed him by playing him that game. I think he had potential early on but then lost his confidence for whatever reason but he definitely got better this year. Coached Up ? Possibly toward probably. But I generally agree all have shown improvement. While I'm not sold on Mullin on the sidelines ( more like a too early to evaluate and give him a couple of years before declaring him a home run yet )I do think he makes a better difference developing players.

Once he stops sitting on that scorers table I'll be happier

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Wow, you are just like the Elias Sports Bureau.

They're called facts. If you were better acquainted with them you wouldn't look silly so often.

CJ has played horribly in prior years whenever he got the chance. He would do one decent thing, then make 3 mistakes before getting yanked.

No. He played a prior year, singular, not years plural, and in single prior season he played 120 minutes, the equivalent of three games. He played little not because he was horrible, but because his coach was desperate to win right then, because he wanted a contract exten$ion. By doing so he put his own interests ahead of those of his players and his program and he played the price at the end of the year when Obekpa went AWOL and he no one with any experience to turn to and so threw Jones to the wolves.

You're fighting the good fight here fun but those stats are not the facts. CJ played his freshmen season. For whatever reason espn doesnt have his stats.

-http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/2019476/christian-jones

 

[salty dog]

correct I was at the Detroit game and saw Jones play, pretty well at times I must add. Fun's stats are bogus. better get more reliable sources. LOL

 

[prjohnnies]

My recollection is that he started the first few games as a freshmen, or at least played a fair amount in the non-conference schedule. This was after Lavin was hyping him as a "protypical, Pitt-style" Big East Power Forward. He played okay the first few games that year, lost time, and then hasn't played much until this year. I also think he had a good game at home against Marquette his freshman year.

 

[SI1996]

How did this turn into the CJ thread with Sleek absurdly bring up the race card, Otis continuing to show his love for Coach Lavin and Maher trying his best No Hope impersonation. There's an uproar Theo creates a thread about tickets in the wrong forum yet no one says boo about this train wreck of a thread? Bizarre.

 

[redken]

And oh yeah ... kudos to the coaching staff.

 

[fun]

CJ played his freshmen season. For whatever reason espn doesnt have his stats.

Thanks. I couldn't understand why the issue of Jones scholarship had even come up if he had only played two years plus a red shirt. This explains my confusion.

That's what I get for getting my news from some place other than FOX - according to them Jones as a FR played 24 games minutes and averaged 9 minutes per game. Most of his minutes came in the first half dozen games of the season, which was perhaps Lavin playing with his new toy like a kid on Xmas morning, until he got bored. Game log 2012

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/christian-jones-player-game-log?season=2012

Aside from my chagrin at the precipitous language I directed at my pal BOTE, those 24 games don't really change my opinion about Jones the player. Short of a mystery recruit I'd much rather have a seasoned upperclassman on the team, especially one who knows the system and has been performing well in it.

 

[beast of the east]

Wow, you are just like the Elias Sports Bureau.

They're called facts. If you were better acquainted with them you wouldn't look silly so often.

CJ has played horribly in prior years whenever he got the chance. He would do one decent thing, then make 3 mistakes before getting yanked.

No. He played a prior year, singular, not years plural, and in single prior season he played 120 minutes, the equivalent of three games. He played little not because he was horrible, but because his coach was desperate to win right then, because he wanted a contract exten$ion. By doing so he put his own interests ahead of those of his players and his program and he played the price at the end of the year when Obekpa went AWOL and he no one with any experience to turn to and so threw Jones to the wolves.

Unfortunately for armchair analysts like you, basketball talent cannot be accurately described by pouring over statistics as you most often do.

Players get playing times based on how they perform in games. Players who do not play much in games get playing time by how they perform in practice. Practice stats do not show up online, where you get most of your information, and as was pointed out to you, even Jones' freshman stats were not online.

You cannot simply compare statistics and determine who can play and who can't. There are big men who score mostly on putbacks and dunks who are horrible shooters, yet you would cite high shooting percentage. Statistics don't show how often a player was burned on defense, or out of rebounding position or failed to box out. On poor teams, lesser players put up better numbers because frankly, someone has to score. This doesn't always mean they are improved, just that they are on the court more because of a paucity of talent.

While statistics mean something in basketball, they hardly mean everything.

Based on what Scottie Pippen put up while playing alongside Jordan, he (and everyone else) assumed that with Jordan retired, Pippen would ascend to superstardom - instead he kind of wilted, and the Bulls redacted to more of a .500 team.

You can project all you want about Jones improvement against grade B competition by citing stats, and you can continue bashing Lavin, but as a big bodied forward if Jones was capable, they really could have used a bruising forward to get them into the NCAAs and beyond.

I will repeat - all I am saying about Jones this season is let's see what he does during the league schedule and how SJU does, before proclaiming anything. Certainly him contributing what he's done so far is a revelation to some, but until he does it with consistency in the Big East, his benching last season may be justified.

 

[JohnnyFan]

Wow, you are just like the Elias Sports Bureau.

They're called facts. If you were better acquainted with them you wouldn't look silly so often.

CJ has played horribly in prior years whenever he got the chance. He would do one decent thing, then make 3 mistakes before getting yanked.

No. He played a prior year, singular, not years plural, and in single prior season he played 120 minutes, the equivalent of three games. He played little not because he was horrible, but because his coach was desperate to win right then, because he wanted a contract exten$ion. By doing so he put his own interests ahead of those of his players and his program and he played the price at the end of the year when Obekpa went AWOL and he no one with any experience to turn to and so threw Jones to the wolves.

You're fighting the good fight here fun but those stats are not the facts. CJ played his freshmen season. For whatever reason espn doesnt have his stats.

-http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/2019476/christian-jones

As I watch this highlight video, I am left wondering why this kid didn't see the floor more last year. Instead, we groaned over a short bench and prayed as Joey DeLaRosa went to the foul line. I find it hard to believe Jones couldn't have given us more minutes last year.

Then again, a better question would be.....how many times did Lavin call a timeout after those Christian Jones dunks?

Thank God Slick Steve is gone!

 

[fun]

Players get playing times based on how they perform in games. Players who do not play much in games get playing time by how they perform in practice.

This is simply not true. Coaches allocate minutes for any number of reasons unrelated to player performance. Some coaches bench players for psychological reasons - the way Lavin did to Jordan - and start players for the same reason - the way Lavin did when he cost Balamou a year of eligibility. Some start players based on matchups - the way Lavin started Joey DLR against Villanova last year. Some coaches start players based on voodoo - the way Lavin did when he started the walkon based on a "premonition." Some coaches are poor judges of talent - you yourself give credit to Lavin for playing Brownlee and Hardy more in his first year than Norm did in his last, but according to what you say here the minutes Brownlee got under Norm were precisely the minutes earned. Just two weeks ago you were second guessing Lou for not playing Larry Washington enough 40 years ago. If what you say here is true Washington got exactly what he deserved, which was less minutes than George Garrison, and Kevin Williams, and Bobby Kelly. Its entirely possible that Jones got the minutes he got because the spirits appeared to Lavin while he was in his post lasagna coma: it might well have been an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato.

As for your mistrust of statistics, shurg. Eyewitness testimony is the least reliable evidence there is: three-quarters of convicts exonerated by DNA evidence were put in prison based on eyewitness identifications. I don't trust my own recollections and I have a superior mind. I certainly don't trust yours. So I'll continue to trust the numbers. Maybe just not ESPN's.

 

[Red2395]

CJ did not play last year because DOM took the lion share of minutes at the 4. CJ was not good at playing the 5 and we all know that DOM was not suited to play the 3. Bottom line CJ and Dom really did not fit well on the court together and DOM got the minutes.

 

[Knight]

CJ did not play last year because DOM took the lion share of minutes at the 4. CJ was not good at playing the 5 and we all know that DOM was not suited to play the 3. Bottom line CJ and Dom really did not fit well on the court together and DOM got the minutes.

Maybe the coaching staff is good at player development as well as recruiting.

 

[we are sju]

Wow lot of posts about Jones. AMASEINYOURFACE having a party in his pants right now.

 

[Ray Morgan]

I'm trying to sort through this thread on Christian Jones, aka "kudos to the coaching staff". There seem to be about 4 different opinions coming out:
1. CJ had his chances, and didn't do much with it.
2. CJ had limited chances under a stumble bum of a coach that picked lineups based on the patterns in his morning corn flakes.,However, he has been producing under the new staff.
3. CJ is not that talented.
4. CJ is OK, thanks to being given confidence by the new staff.

All are at least partially right. The truth is that CJ is a 6'7" block of muscle with a good amount of athleticism. Like hundreds of other similar players throughout the college ranks, he at times will be OK, and at other times mess up. He is serviceable at the high division 1 level, primarily because has Big East athleticism, but would not play all that much on a top 50 team. No one can say if things would have been that much different if CM coached him from day one. Generally, unless they are disciplinary problems or injury prone, the good ones are easy to spot early on, as are the average ones. Even Lavin should have been able to figure that one out.