Joel

Moose said:
I mean he's shooting 64% from the field. While that number obviously includes dunks I think there is too just much recency bias at play here as against Creighton he looked out of sorts. Yet still had a double double. In the words of Jay Z we have 99 problems, Soriano's not one.
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My critique was solely based on him getting to the next level. Perfectly happy with his double/doubles no matter how they come.
 
Like last year, 1980s Detroit Pistons-style defense seems to be very effective on him.

Grab, slap, hold, do whatever you need to do with him. Have multiple guys do it at the same time. After all, the most they can call is one foul.
 
redmanwest said:
To me, team has come together nicely and could be undefeated in conference. But, close losses in tough games on the road are to be expected in the toughest conference in college basketball. So, I’m very pleased and frankly surprised by being so good so soon. But there’s a lot of basketball to be played.

Imo, for this team to take the next step up, I think we need our stud center to step it up and play more aggressively and forcefully. He is our difference maker.

There have times he’s disappeared and times he rarely demands the ball. For the most part, his numbers have been there. But I think a more consistent and aggressive approach would make a big difference and could facilitate a great end of season run.
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He can’t pass himself the ball. I don’t buy the he has to be more aggressive line of thinking some mention. We have exactly one All-Big East caliber player and it’s him. And, believe me, he’s not All-Big East for his defense.

Get him the ball. Let him touch the ball or set a screen every possession. Let him run some offense from the lane.

The best plays I’ve seen all year are guards diving to the basket for his bounce passes and perimeter players shooting his inside-out passes. What an advantage to run offense from a center who is literally looking back at the other 4 players without the opposing center at the basket.

Back screen Luis’ man with a guard in the corner and lob it up to Luis on the baseline with no 5 or 4 in the lane? C’mon now.
 
Soriano is obviously a very, very good player, no question. What he is not is dominant, nor does he look to be. He is not a problem in the least but he is also not a player who is going to lead the Johnnie’s to the “next level”. What he also is, clearly, is a big hole to be filled for next year.
 
logen said:
Soriano is obviously a very, very good player, no question. What he is not is dominant, nor does he look to be. He is not a problem in the least but he is also not a player who is going to lead the Johnnie’s to the “next level”. What he also is, clearly, is a big hole to be filled for next year.
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+100
 
I don't see any difference in Joel since start of conference play other than in general the big men are better, teams are collapsing on Joel, and we need to spread the floor better to open things up down low.

When we make shots, team pay for collapsing and doubling up on Joel. When we move the ball better, we get better looks and make more shots.

Joel is one of the best centers in conference and liken it to two top tennis players going at it with 6-4, 6-7, 6-4, 4-6, 7-6 matches as opposed to winning at love in early rounds.

Agree re Zuby. Still can be an adventure when he is off balance catching a ball in the hole, or getting stripped when he turns after catching on a post up, BUT has become a solid rim protector and rebounder, and been much more aggressive in getting his spot on offense. Fair grade is C to C+ right now and maybe curve him half a grade up for doing this as a sub where you basically want to rest or protect Joel from fouls. It's a luxury most teams donthave when he adds a few point, rebounds, and blocks.
 
Beasts of the East said:
I don't see any difference in Joel since start of conference play other than in general the big men are better, teams are collapsing on Joel, and we need to spread the floor better to open things up down low.

When we make shots, team pay for collapsing and doubling up on Joel. When we move the ball better, we get better looks and make more shots.

Joel is one of the best centers in conference and liken it to two top tennis players going at it with 6-4, 6-7, 6-4, 4-6, 7-6 matches as opposed to winning at love in early rounds.

Agree re Zuby. Still can be an adventure when he is off balance catching a ball in the hole, or getting stripped when he turns after catching on a post up, BUT has become a solid rim protector and rebounder, and been much more aggressive in getting his spot on offense. Fair grade is C to C+ right now and maybe curve him half a grade up for doing this as a sub where you basically want to rest or protect Joel from fouls. It's a luxury most teams donthave when he adds a few point, rebounds, and blocks.
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The last two games when Soriano has come out in the second half and Zuby has been in. The team has taken leads. Zuby is much more active on defense and doesn’t get exposed at the top of the key. If Joel could improve on defense the rest of the year they will be a tournament team easily.
 
Rhythm said:
The last two games when Soriano has come out in the second half and Zuby has been in. The team has taken leads. Zuby is much more active on defense and doesn’t get exposed at the top of the key. If Joel could improve on defense the rest of the year they will be a tournament team easily.
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What is ironic is after game two, many here wanted to ship Zuby someplace far away.

It was impossible for that same group to find any possible way for Zuby ever improve. Now it would not be a stretch to say his improvement has been the most impressive and important.

First, big men usually develop later and at a slower pace, and secondly there is no drop off when Soriano comes off.
 
kranmars said:
What is ironic is after game two, many here wanted to ship Zuby someplace far away.

It was impossible for that same group to find any possible way for Zuby ever improve. Now it would not be a stretch to say his improvement has been the most impressive and important.

First, big men usually develop later and at a slower pace, and secondly there is no drop off when Soriano comes off.
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I am probably the most vocal Zuby supporter and have been from the early going.

I wouldn't say there isn't a dropoff. Soriano as a 5th year player is all league caliber, double digit rebounder and very proficient and patienr in the post, usong both his strength and pivot foot to create easy shots.

What I would say tho is at this point Zuby is starting to provide productive minutes where he provides better rim protection, and has found himself in position for dunks or layups. He is also proving to be a good rebounder perhaps with more hops than Soriano. But, and this is a big but, he is nowhere near the offensive skilled player Soriano is.

I do think you meant to say Zuby has provided productive minute where the change he brings in athleticism has actually helped extend leads rwther than just hold down the fort. They aren't equal talents by any stretch at this point, though i would say Zuby has a high ceiling, perhaps higher than Soriano if zuby develops in the same trajectory Joel has.
 
I have no issue with Joel. I do sometimes think his teammates don't look for him enough which may lead to the comments about a periodic low motor. I don't think he has a low motor. The first half of PC game they never looked for him (only 2 shots at the very end of the half). I think Pitino will keep reminding them to get it to him, especially when he has a match up advantage, which isn't necessarily against Creighton but will be against the Hall. I expect a solid game from him tomorrow.
 
Beasts of the East said:
I am probably the most vocal Zuby supporter and have been from the early going.

I wouldn't say there isn't a dropoff. Soriano as a 5th year player is all league caliber, double digit rebounder and very proficient and patienr in the post, usong both his strength and pivot foot to create easy shots.

What I would say tho is at this point Zuby is starting to provide productive minutes where he provides better rim protection, and has found himself in position for dunks or layups. He is also proving to be a good rebounder perhaps with more hops than Soriano. But, and this is a big but, he is nowhere near the offensive skilled player Soriano is.

I do think you meant to say Zuby has provided productive minute where the change he brings in athleticism has actually helped extend leads rwther than just hold down the fort. They aren't equal talents by any stretch at this point, though i would say Zuby has a high ceiling, perhaps higher than Soriano if zuby develops in the same trajectory Joel has.
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Of course. I was being sarcastic because there was a three wheeled wagon with people who could not stop bashing Zuby.
My point, as is with Dunlap and Wilcher, that they were all going to be much better in November than January.
 
kranmars said:
Of course. I was being sarcastic because there was a three wheeled wagon with people who could not stop bashing Zuby.
My point, as is with Dunlap and Wilcher, that they were all going to be much better in November than January.
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We’re starting to see what Rick said about his motor. He is relentless on the court. He’ll be so much better by his senior year.
 
We need to get the ball down low to Joel more frequently. Joel also needs to throw it back out if he gets double-triple teamed. I think one reason he doesn't is because they don't get into him enough. Guards also have to be available to help him by being available for a pass, or return pass.
 
SJU61982 said:
Like last year, 1980s Detroit Pistons-style defense seems to be very effective on him.

Grab, slap, hold, do whatever you need to do with him. Have multiple guys do it at the same time. After all, the most they can call is one foul.
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Pretty sure that type of defense will work against anyone who didn't play in that era and was accustomed to it.
 
logen said:
Soriano is obviously a very, very good player, no question. What he is not is dominant, nor does he look to be. He is not a problem in the least but he is also not a player who is going to lead the Johnnie’s to the “next level”. What he also is, clearly, is a big hole to be filled for next year.
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He is absolutely knocking on the door of dominance on offense. He needs more shots. He’s shooting 64% from the field so he’s making the shots he takes at a very high clip.

He has his shortcomings on defense so other centers will get theirs.
 
Knight said:
We need to get the ball down low to Joel more frequently. Joel also needs to throw it back out if he gets double-triple teamed. I think one reason he doesn't is because they don't get into him enough. Guards also have to be available to help him by being available for a pass, or return pass.
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Exactly this.
 
Beasts of the East said:
I am probably the most vocal Zuby supporter and have been from the early going.

I wouldn't say there isn't a dropoff. Soriano as a 5th year player is all league caliber, double digit rebounder and very proficient and patienr in the post, usong both his strength and pivot foot to create easy shots.

What I would say tho is at this point Zuby is starting to provide productive minutes where he provides better rim protection, and has found himself in position for dunks or layups. He is also proving to be a good rebounder perhaps with more hops than Soriano. But, and this is a big but, he is nowhere near the offensive skilled player Soriano is.

I do think you meant to say Zuby has provided productive minute where the change he brings in athleticism has actually helped extend leads rwther than just hold down the fort. They aren't equal talents by any stretch at this point, though i would say Zuby has a high ceiling, perhaps higher than Soriano if zuby develops in the same trajectory Joel has.
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Great defensive footwork in post or on perimeter. Nose for rebounds. And starting to show development on offense.

On defense needs to eliminate the reach-ins especially when the opposing center has back to basket.
 
He's overrated. Go ahead and piss on me all you want, but it's the truth. I expected him to struggle against Kalkbrenner (which he did), but last night? He should have been dominant, he should have been a leader for his team. He's none of that.
 
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