Isaiah Briscoe, PG

[paultzman]

A true realist would say "Wow, Coach Lavin is obviously the only choice 4 years ago that could have gotten SJU anywhere near this type of National talent."
.

A "true realist" (your phrase) understands that Lavin's Big East four year record at St.John's is a mediocre 36 wins and 36 losses despite your claims of "National talent".

A "true realist" understands that over the past nearly 19 months Lavin has obtained the commitment of just one high school senior despite the fact that per Rivals he has made offers to 30 high schoolers.

A "true realist" understands that there will be at least 6 scholarships (probably more) available after this season but as of September 26th Lavin has not added a single recruit to fill that void despited the fact that the available pool of recruitable is shrinking by the day with 102 of the Rivals top 150 high schoolers already committed to another school.

So yeah, I do hope that Brisco, Diallo, and other "National talent" commit to St.John's but at this point in the 2015 recruiting cycle I foresee Lavin frantically searching the spring secondary market for judos, transfers, recommits, and 5th year graduates to fill the 6 open spots on the roster.

Can't see how constantly railing about it is helpful Otis. Let's see how it plays out & go from there. If he falls on his face on recruiting trail, so be it. Someone will have to factor that in with this season's results & determine Lavin's future. For now, he seems to have a lot of irons in fire, but time will tell if any come to fruition. I for one hope he succeeds. I'm not a big fan of his, but, like you, love SJU & want the basketball program to achieve positive results.

 

[fordham96]

So I just read 40 posts to find out that Briscoe is fitting in an early visit to Kentucky.

Read 40 more and you may find out that Otis is really a fan of SJU basketball.

Some things never cease to amaze.

 

[logen]

A true realist would say "Wow, Coach Lavin is obviously the only choice 4 years ago that could have gotten SJU anywhere near this type of National talent."
.

A "true realist" (your phrase) understands that Lavin's Big East four year record at St.John's is a mediocre 36 wins and 36 losses despite your claims of "National talent".

A "true realist" understands that over the past nearly 19 months Lavin has obtained the commitment of just one high school senior despite the fact that per Rivals he has made offers to 30 high schoolers.

A "true realist" understands that there will be at least 6 scholarships (probably more) available after this season but as of September 26th Lavin has not added a single recruit to fill that void despited the fact that the available pool of recruitable is shrinking by the day with 102 of the Rivals top 150 high schoolers already committed to another school.

So yeah, I do hope that Brisco, Diallo, and other "National talent" commit to St.John's but at this point in the 2015 recruiting cycle I foresee Lavin frantically searching the spring secondary market for judos, transfers, recommits, and 5th year graduates to fill the 6 open spots on the roster.

Can't see how constantly railing about it is helpful Otis. Let's see how it plays out & go from there. If he falls on his face on recruiting trail, so be it. Someone will have to factor that in with this season's results & determine Lavin's future. For now, he seems to have a lot of irons in fire, but time will tell if any come to fruition. I for one hope he succeeds. I'm not a big fan of his, but, like you, love SJU & want the basketball program to achieve positive results.

Very well said; to me Lavin sees the writing on the wall with his pursuit of JUCO talent and nothing wrong with that. To me, Lavin has given SJU his best shot given all the circumstances and it just hasn't happened. Don't understand the "hating" from Otis and others etc. just as I don't understand the over the top optimism of Marillac, Fordham and others but to each his own.

 

[Jack Williams]

Who cares about johnny fan and every doubter at this point. Maybe he is a UK lean, who knows, I would've said that a week ago. But he's coming to midnight madness with two other great recruits, and that counts for something.

It's funny, people that hate will show their real colors if Lavin does get all these great recruits. Instead of giving the guy credit for getting these talented guys, 100 bucks says they something this:

"Wow, good recruits coming in but no one to coach them!"

Something along those lines. The point is, Lavin will never please these guys no matter what he does, so what's the point of arguing. They've already decided he sucks and nothing will change that in their eyes, so there is no reason to argue any longer. Let them post their daily rants about Lavin. It doesn't matter, let's just hope these recruits come to SJU, and we can start a streak of making it to the tourney.

 

[sirvoo]

Not sure what people expect from their coach. He is an excellent recruiter and below average X's and O's guy. Even so, he has shown he can land these guys and help them get to the league over his 10+ years of coaching. If you think there is any other factor that matters nearly as much as that to recruits then you are kidding yourself.

Crummy thing is we are up against Calipari who is the shaping up to be the GOAT when it comes to producing NBA players. But you have to respect Lav's approach and reputation in getting guys to the league. He is the only reason we are in for these guys... not MSG, not the BE conference, not SJU's pedigree. I don't particularly like his coaching style at all but lay off the guy from the months of April-November.

 

[buckethead]

Lavin is a good recruiter and a mediocre coach.
He is coaching in a great sports city but for a program, that although they are a storied program, has been lackluster for over a decade.
He created a lot of initial hype that that was about to change but it hasn't.
He was known for getting players into the NBA but that isn't really the trend he is showing at SJU.

Harkless went pro and is getting paid but he isn't really wowing people with his stats.
Jakaar went pro and made the cut but how that will pan out is hard to see.
Neither of these guys, IMHO, left SJU drastically improved over what they were when they got here.

I like Lavin from what I have read about and seen about him, and want nothing more than for him and this program to flourish. However, there has to be a doubt in a lot or recruits minds about rather he can flourish or not. Arguably his best season was the one he had with Norm's seniors. It leaves a lot of questions in a recruits mind about rather he can gel a team into a feasible NCAA threat or not. He had a top 5 recruiting class that has still failed to register a tourney win and only managed one NIT win.

I am not saying he can't coach, I am not saying he can't recruit, I am saying he has a deck stacked against him...
*lack of brand name (SJU has been fairly irrelevant in the NCAA for the past decade)
*lack of a big win - especially in the post season - with his own recruits
*loss of the prestige the BE once had
*mediocre results getting kids to NBA and those kids showing success
*transfer history

I really hope Briscoe and Diallo see the opportunity SJU presents and that they are a part of the revitalization of the program. I hope they are the pied piper's that Harkless was. I hope Coach Lavin reels them in - with some great supporting cast like an outside threat. AND to boot I really believe that if he can start with a fresh class, wipe out the interuptions he has had like the tragic loss of his father and his fight against cancer, that he can be successful. The problem is getting the recruits to have that same belief.

 

[fordham96]

A true realist would say "Wow, Coach Lavin is obviously the only choice 4 years ago that could have gotten SJU anywhere near this type of National talent."
.

A "true realist" (your phrase) understands that Lavin's Big East four year record at St.John's is a mediocre 36 wins and 36 losses despite your claims of "National talent".

A "true realist" understands that over the past nearly 19 months Lavin has obtained the commitment of just one high school senior despite the fact that per Rivals he has made offers to 30 high schoolers.

A "true realist" understands that there will be at least 6 scholarships (probably more) available after this season but as of September 26th Lavin has not added a single recruit to fill that void despited the fact that the available pool of recruitable is shrinking by the day with 102 of the Rivals top 150 high schoolers already committed to another school.

So yeah, I do hope that Brisco, Diallo, and other "National talent" commit to St.John's but at this point in the 2015 recruiting cycle I foresee Lavin frantically searching the spring secondary market for judos, transfers, recommits, and 5th year graduates to fill the 6 open spots on the roster.

A true realist puts things into context and does not just quote records.

A true realist looks at the landscape and says who could SJU have hired and done any better? Mediocre is relative to what he had, what he was left to replace and what SJU has done the last 10 years prior to him.

I am not saying I am 100% satisfied but your criticism is not based on reality, it is largely based on a predetermined notion and assuming that is not met you then make judgements.

Any schlep can criticize something and or someone he knows zip about and without anything personally at stake and incessantly type the same nonsense time and time again. That is you. That has been you for years. You know it, I know it and everyone on this board knows it. Evidently it is my job to remind you of that now and then. I for one take great pride in that.

That means you are not a true realist, you are a fake a fraud and a phoney. Period.

 

[MJDinkins]

L

“@J_Schneider: BREAKING: Isaiah Briscoe will visit Kentucky this Sunday, Sept. 28http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news...plans-official-visit-to-kentucky-for-sept-27/ #NJhoops”

An odd date.

Is that the date the Brink's truck stop by UK's campus? I kid, I kid.

Nike Fedex day. Hate to say it, but will be very surprised if Cal doesn't lock up Briscoe & Blakeney right after/during the visit. Just my personal opinion.

Just re-read the Zags article. It really seems like IB is a UK lean (at least).

You are clearly reading that as a JohnnyHater and not JohnnyFan. There is nothing in there to make you think he is a UK lean. He's a kid being courted. They get excited at the attention. Nothing more.

Not a hater, not a homer. Just a realist.

Being a homer has nothing to do it with it. You use that as an excuse to say idiotic things. A true realist would say "Wow, Coach Lavin is obviously the only choice 4 years ago that could have gotten SJU anywhere near this type of National talent."

If your only goal is to knock the program when they try to pursue top talent and use the excuse that you are a "realist" then you are no fan and never were and it has nothing to do with being a homer. You are a fraud and always have been.

Try not to let other people's opinions cause you to make rude comments.

I, for one, thought his comments were on point. You're about as transparent as Fat Albert hiding behind Olive Oyl.

 

[rawdognyc]

L

“@J_Schneider: BREAKING: Isaiah Briscoe will visit Kentucky this Sunday, Sept. 28http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news...plans-official-visit-to-kentucky-for-sept-27/ #NJhoops”

An odd date.

Is that the date the Brink's truck stop by UK's campus? I kid, I kid.

Nike Fedex day. Hate to say it, but will be very surprised if Cal doesn't lock up Briscoe & Blakeney right after/during the visit. Just my personal opinion.

Just re-read the Zags article. It really seems like IB is a UK lean (at least).

You are clearly reading that as a JohnnyHater and not JohnnyFan. There is nothing in there to make you think he is a UK lean. He's a kid being courted. They get excited at the attention. Nothing more.

Not a hater, not a homer. Just a realist.

Being a homer has nothing to do it with it. You use that as an excuse to say idiotic things. A true realist would say "Wow, Coach Lavin is obviously the only choice 4 years ago that could have gotten SJU anywhere near this type of National talent."

If your only goal is to knock the program when they try to pursue top talent and use the excuse that you are a "realist" then you are no fan and never were and it has nothing to do with being a homer. You are a fraud and always have been.

Try not to let other people's opinions cause you to make rude comments.

I, for one, thought his comments were on point. You're about as transparent as Fat Albert hiding behind Olive Oyl.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but your analogy should have been stated in reverse. (And just to stave off any further argument let ne spell it out for you-you can still see Fat Albert hiding behind Olive Oiyl).

Duh...I think that was his point. He is saying how clear it is to see the other posters motives. If it were the other way around, you wouldn't see Olive Oyl at all because she would be behind Fat Albert, so seeing Olive WOULDN'T be clear cuz you wouldn't see her. Maybe you were just joking though.

 

[bamafan]

L

“@J_Schneider: BREAKING: Isaiah Briscoe will visit Kentucky this Sunday, Sept. 28http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news...plans-official-visit-to-kentucky-for-sept-27/ #NJhoops”

An odd date.

Is that the date the Brink's truck stop by UK's campus? I kid, I kid.

Nike Fedex day. Hate to say it, but will be very surprised if Cal doesn't lock up Briscoe & Blakeney right after/during the visit. Just my personal opinion.

Just re-read the Zags article. It really seems like IB is a UK lean (at least).

You are clearly reading that as a JohnnyHater and not JohnnyFan. There is nothing in there to make you think he is a UK lean. He's a kid being courted. They get excited at the attention. Nothing more.

Not a hater, not a homer. Just a realist.

Being a homer has nothing to do it with it. You use that as an excuse to say idiotic things. A true realist would say "Wow, Coach Lavin is obviously the only choice 4 years ago that could have gotten SJU anywhere near this type of National talent."

If your only goal is to knock the program when they try to pursue top talent and use the excuse that you are a "realist" then you are no fan and never were and it has nothing to do with being a homer. You are a fraud and always have been.

Try not to let other people's opinions cause you to make rude comments.

I, for one, thought his comments were on point. You're about as transparent as Fat Albert hiding behind Olive Oyl.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but your analogy should have been stated in reverse. (And just to stave off any further argument let ne spell it out for you-you can still see Fat Albert hiding behind Olive Oiyl).

Duh...I think that was his point. He is saying how clear it is to see the other posters motives. If it were the other way around, you wouldn't see Olive Oyl at all because she would be behind Fat Albert, so seeing Olive WOULDN'T be clear cuz you wouldn't see her. Maybe you were just joking though.

You be right. Didn't follow the whole argument and thought Dinkins was calling out a poster for his lack of transparency. Nowadays being transparent is thought to be a good thing ie. President Obama, Rodger Goodall so thought he was being critical of a poster he obviously disagrees with.
Only chimed in because this is supposed to be an IB thread bogged down on another Lavin debate.sort of like the Pointer back and forth on the Jungle. But I digress!

 

[Red.Fans]

Anything else you want to say about Kentucky style of play under Calipari, is it really isn't the place to showcase a premier point guard. I think dad gets that reading between the lines in that article talking about adapting his son's style of play. Nothwithstanding a better NCAA tourney, Harrison rated higher than Briscoe and is like an afterthought, almost invisible.

IDK Paul. Rose, Evans,Wall, Knight, Teague. Seems like quite a place to showcase.

Paul?

Otherwise I agree. He gets kids paid.

I reject your reality and substitute my own

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Anything else you want to say about Kentucky style of play under Calipari, is it really isn't the place to showcase a premier point guard. I think dad gets that reading between the lines in that article talking about adapting his son's style of play. Nothwithstanding a better NCAA tourney, Harrison rated higher than Briscoe and is like an afterthought, almost invisible.

IDK Paul. Rose, Evans,Wall, Knight, Teague. Seems like quite a place to showcase.

Paul?

Otherwise I agree. He gets kids paid.

Paul Massel, stud PG who Cal helped reach his position as RedMen.com founder and creator.

 

[Red.Fans]

Anything else you want to say about Kentucky style of play under Calipari, is it really isn't the place to showcase a premier point guard. I think dad gets that reading between the lines in that article talking about adapting his son's style of play. Nothwithstanding a better NCAA tourney, Harrison rated higher than Briscoe and is like an afterthought, almost invisible.

IDK Paul. Rose, Evans,Wall, Knight, Teague. Seems like quite a place to showcase.

Paul?

Otherwise I agree. He gets kids paid.

Paul Massel, stud PG who Cal helped reach his position as RedMen.com founder and creator.

Unfortunately I spent all of the "signing bonus" on my posse

 

[SI1996]

Anything else you want to say about Kentucky style of play under Calipari, is it really isn't the place to showcase a premier point guard. I think dad gets that reading between the lines in that article talking about adapting his son's style of play. Nothwithstanding a better NCAA tourney, Harrison rated higher than Briscoe and is like an afterthought, almost invisible.

IDK Paul. Rose, Evans,Wall, Knight, Teague. Seems like quite a place to showcase.

Paul?

Otherwise I agree. He gets kids paid.

Paul Massel, stud PG who Cal helped reach his position as RedMen.com founder and creator.

Unfortunately I spent all of the "signing bonus" on my posse

At least its a bomb ass posse.

 

[TobinGrad]

Had Lavin taken care of business this past season none of this would be an issue. You don't give a guy an extension who has not proven that he can adequately do the job for which he was hired. This season will determine if Lavin will even be kept on as coach, so obviously he cant receive an extension before it is decided if he is worthy of keeping the job.

He can remedy this long before March by winning and getting into the top 25 early. Knock off the Zags and Cuse and climb the rankings early, then he may get his extension before February.

 

[otis]

.... as I have said before to the administration won and loss factor is not controlling.

What has President Bobby Gempesaw said that leads you to the conclusion that he is satisfied with the school's return on investment for Mr. Lavin's Big East record of 36 wins and 36 losses ?

 

[fordham96]

.... as I have said before to the administration won and loss factor is not controlling.

What has President Bobby Gempesaw said that leads you to the conclusion that he is satisfied with the school's return on investment for Mr. Lavin's Big East record of 36 wins and 36 losses ?

By the simple fact that if the 36-36 record was the be all as you seem to think it is he would not be the coach now.

Stop cherry picking things taken out of context. Jay Wright’s first 4 years in the Big East were 32-32 with just 1 winning BE record in his 4th year. And he took over for a coach who went to the NCAA’s 4 times at Villanova (Lappas). Lavin did not take over from a coach who enjoyed MORE success than he has, not even close.

Norm Robert’s first 4 years at SJU his League record was 19-47 and not only did he not get fired he got a rollover extension that lasted another 2 years.

Get a clue genius.

 

[redfazed]

.... as I have said before to the administration won and loss factor is not controlling.

What has President Bobby Gempesaw said that leads you to the conclusion that he is satisfied with the school's return on investment for Mr. Lavin's Big East record of 36 wins and 36 losses ?

By the simple fact that if the 36-36 record was the be all as you seem to think it is he would not be the coach now.

Stop cherry picking things taken out of context. Jay Wright’s first 4 years in the Big East were 32-32 with just 1 winning BE record in his 4th year. And he took over for a coach who went to the NCAA’s 4 times at Villanova (Lappas). Lavin did not take over from a coach who enjoyed MORE success than he has, not even close.

Norm Robert’s first 4 years at SJU his League record was 19-47 and not only did he not get fired he got a rollover extension that lasted another 2 years.

Get a clue genius.

In Jay Wright's 4th year, he didn't just have a winning BE record, he took Nova to the Sweet 16. He hasn't looked back since.

Lavin is entering year 5 - year 4, if you want to factor in the year Dunlap coached. It is do or die for him at this point.

By the way, the Norm comparison is not appropriate. Lavin is being paid quadruple what Norm was paid. In other words, he's being paid to generate Jay Wright-type results. But just getting into the Tournament on a regular basis would make most fans happy, myself included.

 

[MJDinkins]

 

[redfazed]

Fair enough. I for one will refrain from further comment on the Lavin extension topic until the season begins.