Hire Mike Rice

[bucketshardy]

I just don't get why this particular guy is the most talked about option.

best local option who potentially comes with built-in recruits?

Do we have an opening?

Better question is should there be an opening. Now that Matt's staying I still would lean towards a yes to that question.

Did I miss a Matt is staying announcement ?

you missed the Matt leaving announcement lol

 

[redken]

Rice, a Fordham grad, has not coached a winning college program since 2010.
Pass.

Mullin has never coached a winning program
Slice had 1 winning season in 4 years at Manhattan.
An assistant coach and part of a staff is different than leading a program.

And what does being a Fordham grad have to do with it?

Pedigree check.
I hate Fordham. I'm still scarred from the time Charlie Yelverton at 6'2" out jumped our 7' Center Bill Phillips in MSG. I still have a tick.

I would still be scarred had I seen Bill Phillips out-jump Charlie Yelverton.

 

[Section9]

Rice, a Fordham grad, has not coached a winning college program since 2010.
Pass.

Mullin has never coached a winning program
Slice had 1 winning season in 4 years at Manhattan.
An assistant coach and part of a staff is different than leading a program.

And what does being a Fordham grad have to do with it?

Pedigree check.
I hate Fordham. I'm still scarred from the time Charlie Yelverton at 6'2" out jumped our 7' Center Bill Phillips in MSG. I still have a tick.

Bastards won 76-72, next year we exacted revenge at AH 78-60, the year prior we trounced them 80-53 also at AH. So Big Bill was 2-1 against the Rams.

 

[usguard]

Not "getting" the let's hire Mike Rice movement. However knowledgeable Rice might be, is adding a former Division I HC -- and volatile one at that -- to CM's staff a good idea, especially after the ill-fated (and costly) ego-driven Mullin/Slice split. Given their personalities, seems to me that hiring Rice would be a potential disaster. And as a recruiter, no doubt his reputation would precede him. Would you want your kid to commit to a guy who's widely perceived as both both physically and psychologically abusive? I don't think so. I'm all for second chances, and I think Rice deserves one and knows the game better than most -- but would prefer that that he proves he's changed at another Division 1 program.

Parents already letting their kids play for Rice and they are even younger than college kids. Plus he would be an assistant and Mullin would be there to oversee and it seems Chris has not even raised his voice to a player in the two years he has been coaching.

What gets lost in all the shuffle with the Rice stint at Rutgers is the lack of complaints by the players who played for him, the ones who who were supposedly "abused." I won't discuss opinions on this because I perfectly well understand his behavior is totally unacceptable in today's world. I am not sure that makes for a better world though. Life's best lessons are learned by dealing with adversity and understanding life isn't fair or always easy. However, I come from a completely different generation, one where you stood your ground and fought, not run to "Mommy".

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I respect discipline and "manning up" (probably not PC to even use that term any more) but you are not teaching discipline when you yourself are not disciplined. It is one thing to be passionate and intense and another to be an out of control lunatic. I had a coach grab one of my teammates by the hair and drag him out of the gym by his hair. (way) Back then I thought - what an A-hole. I still think that, but don't feel the same way about other coaches who did things that would not be acceptable today. Even if you get past the beaning players with balls and grabbing and shoving them. A grown man in a leadership position over young people and representing a large, public, educational institution in one of its most prominent roles, using homophobic slurs in the 21st century is not in control of himself. I've got nothing against the guy but even if he's permanently past all that, I still don't get the desire to hire him.

Hey he did murder someone,putting things in perspective he was totally out of line,paid a big price for his actions ,now behaving like he is expected to as a coach of young men. Under the circumstance along with his therapy would not hold tt against him forever and give him a shot AS others here have said I also have had crazy coaches and we sucked it up became men and more forward. Again not condoning his action

 

[MarkRedman]

Rice, a Fordham grad, has not coached a winning college program since 2010.
Pass.

Mullin has never coached a winning program
Slice had 1 winning season in 4 years at Manhattan.
An assistant coach and part of a staff is different than leading a program.

And what does being a Fordham grad have to do with it?

Pedigree check.
I hate Fordham. I'm still scarred from the time Charlie Yelverton at 6'2" out jumped our 7' Center Bill Phillips in MSG. I still have a tick.

Bastards won 76-72, next year we exacted revenge at AH 78-60, the year prior we trounced them 80-53 also at AH. So Big Bill was 2-1 against the Rams.

If my memory serves me correctly, Bill Phillips had the game of his life against St Francis at Alumni Hall circa 1971 . We used to play the Terriers every year and there was a trophy given to the MVP of each game. They gave it to Greg Cluess that year because he was a senior and the team captain. People in the stands went nuts for Phillips because he really deserved to win it.

 

[JohnnyFan]

I just don't get why this particular guy is the most talked about option.

best local option who potentially comes with built-in recruits?

Do we have an opening?

Better question is should there be an opening. Now that Matt's staying I still would lean towards a yes to that question.

Did I miss a Matt is staying announcement ?

He un-followed LSU Basketball on Twitter. That is the Gold Standard of evidence.

 

[Class of 72]

Rice, a Fordham grad, has not coached a winning college program since 2010.
Pass.

Mullin has never coached a winning program
Slice had 1 winning season in 4 years at Manhattan.
An assistant coach and part of a staff is different than leading a program.

And what does being a Fordham grad have to do with it?

Pedigree check.
I hate Fordham. I'm still scarred from the time Charlie Yelverton at 6'2" out jumped our 7' Center Bill Phillips in MSG. I still have a tick.

No idea about that event as I'm sure it was way before I was born

But I am sorry it was such a traumatic experience

Charlie Yelverton and David Thompson were two of the greatest leapers I have ever seen. Julius Erving was the other I saw in person. If you saw them you would remember the experience. Bill Phillips was a skinny white 7 foot center whose vertical leap was 12 inches at most. He was in many campus organizations with me and was member of Delta Sigma Phi which is no longer active at St. John's.

 

[L J S A]

I just don't get why this particular guy is the most talked about option.

best local option who potentially comes with built-in recruits?

Do we have an opening?

Better question is should there be an opening. Now that Matt's staying I still would lean towards a yes to that question.

Did I miss a Matt is staying announcement ?

He un-followed LSU Basketball on Twitter. That is the Gold Standard of evidence.

I like the guy, but the following/unfollowing thing seems pretty childish to me.

 

[Mike]

I just don't get why this particular guy is the most talked about option.

best local option who potentially comes with built-in recruits?

Do we have an opening?

Better question is should there be an opening. Now that Matt's staying I still would lean towards a yes to that question.

Did I miss a Matt is staying announcement ?

He un-followed LSU Basketball on Twitter. That is the Gold Standard of evidence.

I like the guy, but the following/unfollowing thing seems pretty childish to me.

What about the people who knows his every move on when he follows or unfollows. lol

 

[Knight]

Rice, a Fordham grad, has not coached a winning college program since 2010.
Pass.

Mullin has never coached a winning program
Slice had 1 winning season in 4 years at Manhattan.
An assistant coach and part of a staff is different than leading a program.

And what does being a Fordham grad have to do with it?

I think Billy Paultz was at center the year prior.

Pedigree check.
I hate Fordham. I'm still scarred from the time Charlie Yelverton at 6'2" out jumped our 7' Center Bill Phillips in MSG. I still have a tick.

Bastards won 76-72, next year we exacted revenge at AH 78-60, the year prior we trounced them 80-53 also at AH. So Big Bill was 2-1 against the Rams.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I just don't get why this particular guy is the most talked about option.

best local option who potentially comes with built-in recruits?

Do we have an opening?

Better question is should there be an opening. Now that Matt's staying I still would lean towards a yes to that question.

Did I miss a Matt is staying announcement ?

Well if Paultz implies it it must be true or so I've been told.

Paultz Brenner


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[attachment]6cb4139649ea5d23bbecf23043f7576b5b6fcec9b5fdf2f96f28c2f1f805b8af.jpg[/attachment]

 

[Class of 72]

Rice, a Fordham grad, has not coached a winning college program since 2010.
Pass.

Mullin has never coached a winning program
Slice had 1 winning season in 4 years at Manhattan.
An assistant coach and part of a staff is different than leading a program.

And what does being a Fordham grad have to do with it?

Pedigree check.
I hate Fordham. I'm still scarred from the time Charlie Yelverton at 6'2" out jumped our 7' Center Bill Phillips in MSG. I still have a tick.

I would still be scarred had I seen Bill Phillips out-jump Charlie Yelverton.

FYI, Charlie never returned permanently to the States. For all the Federico Mussini fans, Charlie is an Italian citizen, married to an Italian woman with two Italian children. He speaks perfect Italian and plays sax for a living now.

[/quote]

 

[section10]

a charlie y story. we were 5 fordham lon gisland seniors shopping for refreshments a block from the fordham campus. we spotted charlie walking (freshmen not eligible to play varsity ball). we asked charlie, who knew none of us, if he wanted to join us as we were leaving for the palestra to see fordham versus temple. he jumped into the car. among other questions we asked charlie why he & meminger did not team up to dominate college basketball. he smiled. every time we stopped at a toll booth, (there were many), charlie would scream - these white guys are kidnapping me. he was a pleasure to be with. great, funny, talkative guy.
years later a friend of mind hailed a nyc cab. charlie was the cabbie.
i was also there when charlie stuffed phillips.

 

[Class of 72]

a charlie y story. we were 5 fordham lon gisland seniors shopping for refreshments a block from the fordham campus. we spotted charlie walking (freshmen not eligible to play varsity ball). we asked charlie, who knew none of us, if he wanted to join us as we were leaving for the palestra to see fordham versus temple. he jumped into the car. among other questions we asked charlie why he & meminger did not team up to dominate college basketball. he smiled. every time we stopped at a toll booth, (there were many), charlie would scream - these white guys are kidnapping me. he was a pleasure to be with. great, funny, talkative guy.
years later a friend of mind hailed a nyc cab. charlie was the cabbie.
i was also there when charlie stuffed phillips.

I drove a taxi for a month when I was a senior too but quit when I was robbed. After college CY went to the NBA and then Europe. He rarely visited the States after he married an Italian girl. Our very own Tyrone Grant has an identical history in Italy with dual citizenship but he runs a great non-profit here in the States. Charlie prefers playing his sax in his adopted hometown of Varese in Northern Italy.

 

[redfan99d]

I applaud Mike Rice for rebuilding his life and reputation. But I'm not sure the program is in a position to take the negativity that will surely come with the hire. Of course there will be some in the press who put a positive spin on it (feeel good story) but there will be negative attention also.

Maybe if the program were perennial 20+ wins a year and postseason bound consistently we could afford the risk and attention.

There are plenty of capable assistants who could help with x&o defense recruiting. I would pass on Rice.

 

[kranmars]

I applaud Mike Rice for rebuilding his life and reputation. But I'm not sure the program is in a position to take the negativity that will surely come with the hire. Of course there will be some in the press who put a positive spin on it (feeel good story) but there will be negative attention also.

Maybe if the program were perennial 20+ wins a year and postseason bound consistently we could afford the risk and attention.

There are plenty of capable assistants who could help with x&o defense recruiting. I would pass on Rice.

Very fair and salient points.
I will counter that we also must add the coaching budget to the equation.

I would guess that Matt A. received a salary bump. There is only so much money this University has for coaches.

I am by no means saying Rice's value is from a coahing discount rack. But, since Rice has planted roots locally, and wants to get back in the college coaching scene, his salary demands may be more in line to what the University can offer.

I am a converted fan. I think Rice would be a big help here. And he would jump at the gig.

 

[ras]

I too am for Rices hire,. He is knowledgeable, experienced and has good recruiting contacts. I feel he has redeemed himself and the price would be right.

 

[we are sju]

I too am for Rices hire,. He is knowledgeable, experienced and has good recruiting contacts. I feel he has redeemed himself and the price would be right.

Win / Win situation. He will either be far and away best coach on staff or it will at least be an entertaining failure. It is always fun to play with a wildcard.

 

[beast of the east]

All this Mike Rice talk is just chatter. I don't believe this will happen or anything close to this.

CM strikes me as a person who must be in control at this point. Slice came in and I believe he had a slightly condescending attitude towards CM in that he had coached before, and CM never had, was tentative, and too freely gave Slice the huddles and lived to regret that. I think he is now comfortable with a younger staff of St. Jean helping w strategy, MAtt A. recruiting, and Mitch as an old trusted friend and advisor on basketball operations.

My guess is that CM will stand pat with staff and the school is essentially paying for a full staff with them on the hook for Slice.

Rice would come in and want more authority, which would impede CM's development as a HC.

 

[SJU1512]

All this Mike Rice talk is just chatter. I don't believe this will happen or anything close to this.

CM strikes me as a person who must be in control at this point. Slice came in and I believe he had a slightly condescending attitude towards CM in that he had coached before, and CM never had, was tentative, and too freely gave Slice the huddles and lived to regret that. I think he is now comfortable with a younger staff of St. Jean helping w strategy, MAtt A. recruiting, and Mitch as an old trusted friend and advisor on basketball operations.

My guess is that CM will stand pat with staff and the school is essentially paying for a full staff with them on the hook for Slice.

Rice would come in and want more authority, which would impede CM's development as a HC.

I see the reasons for and against Rice. Think the points you make especially if the nuance suggested is true makes a lot of sense. Those dynamics unquestionably matter on a staff not just in hoops but in most professional contexts.

In that scenario the primary issue I see is imbalance and inexperience from a recruiting perspective.

From afar Richmond and St. Jean appear to be doing an ok (and improved) job. Mitch is engaged, I'm sure is helpful in player development (which should only increase if we get better players for him to work with), I'm sure is an advisor to Mullin as you note, and if nothing else his reactions on the bench when our players do something dumb are great entertainment value in the stands (seemed like he was just beside himself watching our play at times). St. Jean appears to really know the game and probably brings that energetic assistant personality Mullin likes.

Just not sure that's enough on-court value to have them occupying 2 of the 3 recruiting assistant spots. Recruiting is so much about grinding and being on the road 250 days per year and connections and building relationships. That's hard work and could be wrong but I'm not sure that's how Mitch wants to be spending his time (wouldn't blame him). If kids are going to come to SJU in part because they want to play for two HOFers and think perhaps they can improve their chances of going pro (which I think may be overstated anyway), Mitch can have that impact without being a recruiter. I'm sure St. Jean can learn to do all of the things required to be a quality recruiter - and he'll likely need to if he wants to coach at the college level - but is unlikely there yet.

So strikes me keeping both of them on staff, but bumping them down to role Keady/Mitch were in previously, and hiring another more experienced assistant might help balance things. Doesn't need to be a household name, but you look at a lot of staffs at successful programs even at conferences lower than the Big East and they have assistants that have been assistants for 10-20 years including at high-major programs. Not suggesting this will have some mega impact, but having one more assistant coach on staff whose core professional competency is being an assistant coach, really knows how to recruit, and can help Matt recruit probably shouldn't be underestimated either.

Seems like sometimes SJU makes assembling a staff slightly more complicated than it needs to be.