Guys on Matt’s Radar

[quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282338][quote="JohnnyFan" post=282334][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Agree that Matt works hard and has brought a lot to the table. As has been repeatedly mentioned, one man alone should not be responsible for filling an entire D-I basketball roster.

As far as the insinuation that we have not been more successful due to information that fans are not privy, it's hard to digest. Bottom line, if the program cannot fill one very specific need over the course of two recruiting cycles, an adjustment to the recruiting approach or assistant coach make-up should be on the table (which it now seem to be).[/quote]

True enough, and a valid point - 2 recruiting cycles is a long time, and of course we ALL wish the desired big was already locked down for this coming year.

But that said, having run my own decent sized company for many years and having made all sorts of hiring mistakes over the decades, amongst the worst is hiring in desperation, aka: simply filling a position for sake of filling the position. Invariably, this mistake has come back to haunt me, sometimes miserably.

What I have found is that it's invariably better to do without and leave a position open longer than anyone would like than to fill it with a less than optimal fit. Has my company also fallen victim to being outbid for talent in a tight labor market where we're looking for a valuable skill set? Sure. And this only makes it that much more difficult (and much more critical) to avoid caving and go and hire just anyone.

Sticking to a plan and executing is the foundation of any organization's long term success. I would like to think that Chris&Co have a much longer view than simply this recruiting cycle (or the last one), and while some of the misses may appropriately be considered mistakes, the (possible vast) majority of others are far more calculated than any of us could know.

Now in fairness, I have had my own administrative staff question me on this practice of leaving positions open while we recruit a higher grade of talent, particularly when the remaining staff is left to pick up the slack - but all I need do is remind some of my longer tenured staff of the names of the past sub-prime hirings, and how much harder everything was for everyone because of the sub-optimal work that resulted from those individuals..

I guess what I'm saying is that while I agree that we *should* have a big in place already, and we all *wish* we did, the fact remains that we don't. And with that being the fact, we (along withChris&Co) have to look at the longer term and the bigger picture and not get a big for the sake of having one on the stat sheet. And with all the effort to check these kids from every angle, we have to bear in mind that there could be a multitude of reasons that one particular kid or another is not pursued with the energy some may think is deserved.

Bottom line? As I have stated in another thread, I would rather we work short (literally and figuratively) than have a big who is the wrong fit. Based on the way Chris&Co evaluated and used Yakwe (and to an extent Alibegovich), it appears to me they agree.[/quote]

I think the 'beef' with 'not' having 'staff' in Dallas to show support for the top local talent--Kofi, Jalen, Aidan, Kahlil--we are recruiting is just that.
'Not' having anybody 'take up the slack' and being there to root the kids on and be 'present' with the likes of Hall, UCONN, and 'Cuse trying to gain credence with them is tough to accept.
Somebody on the staff should be at ALL these major 'open' events.
That's all I'm saying.
 
[quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings. No one has better information than the Mullin haters here. Can't coach, can't recruit, well, can't recruit as well as Nova, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. Just generalities, innuendo and rumors. Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCK. Still in the mix for cream of the crop guys I don't think we will get but we are in the mix by NOT RECRUITING, an incredibly original, out of the box approach.
 
[quote="Logen" post=282372][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings..[/quote] April 23, 2018 The day Logen referred to many of the redmen,com members as small rodents
 
Last edited:
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=282376][quote="Logen" post=282372][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings..[/quote] April 23, 2018 The day Logen referred to many of the redmen,com members as small rodents[/quote]
[attachment=114]21E9B6F7-4D49-494C-93A1-C654B2627845.jpeg[/attachment]
 
Generally speaking--across the gamut of topics--political, education issues, social issues, sports criteria, et cetera, it's been proven incorrect and wrong to support any 'authority' on the premise that they're acting from 'superior' or 'better' knowledge or information.
The 'faithful' of many stripes--believing such spin--have wound up disappointed and disillusioned.
Just sayin'...
 
[quote="Logen" post=282372][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314...








I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings. No one has better information than the Mullin haters here. Can't coach, can't recruit, well, can't recruit as well as Nova, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. Just generalities, innuendo and rumors. Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCK. Still in the mix for cream of the crop guys I don't think we will get but we are in the mix by NOT RECRUITING, an incredibly original, out of the box approach.[/quote]

Thanks Logen et.al
Chris Mullin has been a winner at all levels of the sport from grammar school through the NBA and Dream Team and Hall of Fame.

He has a highly intelligent, gifted hoops mind.

We are fortunate to have him and to have him
willing to endure guiding a once glorious program from the bottom of the BE heap. He is a winner and has had to accept losing. He inherited nothing, knew it would be a long road, and he accepted that challenge.

Some challenges are extremely difficult. They take time and effort to resolve if there is ever a resolution.

There is no better candidate to lead St. John’s to the promised land where we once were - ahead of the other small Catholic non- football schools. Ahead of Gonzaga and Villanova and Xavier...

Chris Mullin wants to win more than anything else...to satisfy we fans, to satisfy the players, to honor and satisfy his mentor Louie Carnesecca.

CM has his own personality and style and is evolving as a head coach. He has made steady progress in each of his ( merely) three years on the job April 2015-2018. Progress with Ws and with recruits.

We can trust his judgment even if we don’t always agree or understand it.

For those, to use the colloquial that I’ve previously referred to, who like to critique and ‘bitch and moan’ - here are a few options:
Come up with a better solution to CM and his approach; stop rooting for the team if it is that difficult to endure; other options I will trust my fellow posters to share.

Chris Mullin is our best option and I’m going to stay the course and enjoy 2018-19 no matter what. Mullin is a winner. He knows more than I do. He’s entitled to do it his way, whether we agree with it, like it or not.

Let’s go St. John’s - beat the crap out of everyone else in the league!!!
All the best
Sheridan :)
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

Not to mention the 3 upperclassmen who we all hope will lead us to a big 18-19.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=282417][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

Not to mention the 3 upperclassmen who we all hope will lead us to a big 18-19.[/quote]

Matt has been great. No argument there. Would just like to see people covering for vacancies at key recruiting events--when next year's 'harvest' will be absolutely critical to the future of the program. That's all.
Hopefully anticipating, a good staff change soon to buttress our recruiting and player development capabilities.
And also believe, the 2018-19 season will be better than many on this Board think.
Let's go Johnnies.
 
[quote="Logen" post=282372][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings. No one has better information than the Mullin haters here. Can't coach, can't recruit, well, can't recruit as well as Nova, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. Just generalities, innuendo and rumors. Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCKMr. . Still in the mix for cream of the crop guys I don't think we will get but we are in the mix by NOT RECRUITING, an incredibly original, out of the box approach.[/quote]

I agree when you say "Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there".
Yes, there is some talent, mostly 3 star talent. However, does anyone think that this level of talent, minus Shamorie Ponds, is talented enough to advance in the Dance?
Also, with your emphasis on the word "recruiting" in caps it should come as no surprise to you that you listed 8 players. Of those eight St. John's only "recruited" 3 of them in the traditional sense. When you add Trimble to that group that makes nine players with only 3 as long term prep recruiting targets.
All the others were as you described "LUCK" in that they only became available to "recruit" AFTER getting their release from their previous school. So, yes, basically Matt gets on the phone and Twitter and gets players looking for a school as opposed to players in the elite category who have to eliminate schools from consideration. With those "elite" players out of high school, except for Slick, we have been eliminated and thus settle for the Trimbles, Wrights, Keita, Caraher, Dixon, etc.
In short, you don't and can't do long term recruiting of TRANSFERS until they get released. That Mr. Logen, is where you don't realize how correct you are when you said "Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCK".
I prefer we don't rely on LUCK but hard work to get kids to play for St. John’s.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=282421][quote="Logen" post=282372][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings. No one has better information than the Mullin haters here. Can't coach, can't recruit, well, can't recruit as well as Nova, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. Just generalities, innuendo and rumors. Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCKMr. . Still in the mix for cream of the crop guys I don't think we will get but we are in the mix by NOT RECRUITING, an incredibly original, out of the box approach.[/quote]

I agree when you say "Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there".
Yes, there is some talent, mostly 3 star talent. However, does anyone think that this level of talent, minus Shamorie Ponds, is talented enough to advance in the Dance?
Also, with your emphasis on the word "recruiting" in caps it should come as no surprise to you that you listed 8 players. Of those eight St. John's only "recruited" 3 of them in the traditional sense. When you add Trimble to that group that makes nine players with only 3 as long term prep recruiting targets.
All the others were as you described "LUCK" in that they only became available to "recruit" AFTER getting their release from their previous school. So, yes, basically Matt gets on the phone and Twitter and gets players looking for a school as opposed to players in the elite category who have to eliminate schools from consideration. With those "elite" players out of high school, except for Slick, we have been eliminated and thus settle for the Trimbles, Wrights, Keita, Caraher, Dixon, etc.
In short, you don't and can't do long term recruiting of TRANSFERS until they get released. That Mr. Logen, is where you don't realize how correct you are when you said "Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCK".
I prefer we don't rely on LUCK but hard work to get kids to play for St. John’s.[/quote]

I agree with the group supporting Mullin.
I agree with the group criticizing the undermanned staff and the less-than-stellar and inconsistent pursuit of top HS talent.
Neither is a mutually-exclusive position.
It seems like drinking and ingesting the Kool-Aid to blindly accept the Staff's results and not scrutinize the details/facts.
It seems punitive to deny, disregard, or dismiss the condition this program was in in the Spring of 2015, and the overwhelming difficulty to recruit solid talent in that climate.
The results of the past 3 seasons is a woeful 38 - 60
But to hiss, deride, and excoriate Mullin and the Staff for that is, in my mind, unfair.
He can be criticized for recruiting 'choices' and 'lapses'--but he and the Staff should also be applauded for the roster they've been able to build 'under the circumstances' of the 2015 implosion and the 38 - 60 record since.
Yes, I have issues with CM's seemingly approval of an undermanned staff and--apparently his inconsistent mano-a-mano-the HC is 'there/maybe' approach.
But we have above-average BEC talent on the roster and more coming--IF we win in 2018-19.
And if we add an A/C and recruiter, recruiting focus should improve markedly.
We shall see.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=282421][quote="Logen" post=282372][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings. No one has better information than the Mullin haters here. Can't coach, can't recruit, well, can't recruit as well as Nova, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. Just generalities, innuendo and rumors. Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCKMr. . Still in the mix for cream of the crop guys I don't think we will get but we are in the mix by NOT RECRUITING, an incredibly original, out of the box approach.[/quote]

I agree when you say "Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there".
Yes, there is some talent, mostly 3 star talent. However, does anyone think that this level of talent, minus Shamorie Ponds, is talented enough to advance in the Dance?
Also, with your emphasis on the word "recruiting" in caps it should come as no surprise to you that you listed 8 players. Of those eight St. John's only "recruited" 3 of them in the traditional sense. When you add Trimble to that group that makes nine players with only 3 as long term prep recruiting targets.
All the others were as you described "LUCK" in that they only became available to "recruit" AFTER getting their release from their previous school. So, yes, basically Matt gets on the phone and Twitter and gets players looking for a school as opposed to players in the elite category who have to eliminate schools from consideration. With those "elite" players out of high school, except for Slick, we have been eliminated and thus settle for the Trimbles, Wrights, Keita, Caraher, Dixon, etc.
In short, you don't and can't do long term recruiting of TRANSFERS until they get released. That Mr. Logen, is where you don't realize how correct you are when you said "Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCK".

I prefer we don't rely on LUCK but hard work to get kids to play for St. John’s.[/quote]

That fits your narrative well but the fact is there is no “traditional” way to get players. What you call traditional, we are doing, we are “in the running” for elite players but you and others just don’t, won’t or can’t accept the fact we are very much severe underdogs for those types of players, like it or not. You think Mullin doesn’t know that? Paultzman reports on our recruiting of these players and even when news appears favorable often offers his opinion of our chances and I agree with him, our chances for the “Kentucky” type player are slim at best unless we want to start cheating. So Mullin and Matt have their “plan B” model and there it is, they are not sitting back and waiting to see what happens, they are taking the bird in the hand. It is so much easier to complain and mock and ridicule because reality sucks. Listen to a Luther Muhammad talk about the differences between Ohio State and SJU in terms of facilities, campus, campus life, student backing of sports, etc. and again, like it or not, be offended or not, it is two different worlds. I understand most on here are SJU grads and that is hard to accept but it is reality. Could Mullin build the program to a Nova type level? Possible, but people here ignore the reality of how long and hard it was for Wright, how “fans” like the ones who dominate here were calling for Wright’s head after a couple of years just like they are here. And the reality is Wright inherited a situation light years ahead of what Mullin did. Substitute Coach K and Calhoun for Wright and the same statement holds. But the recognition and acknowledgement of that doesn’t fit your and others narrative. No one has a comment when I point out out and that Mullins record for years 2/3 is not that much different than those three, because it just doesn’t fit your narrative. I don’t have a narrative, I look at results. I saw a better team in Mullins second year and then a better team than that in his 3rd. We were one quitter away from possibly being a tournament team quicker than any of the aforementioned elite coaches but that doesn’t fit your narrative. Has Mullin made mistakes, no question. Is he doing it his way, also no question but what other way is there, he is the coach. Did I expect him to come in with no coaching experience and not make mistakes? No way, but obviously you and others did. So I have my opinion, which is to give Mullin another 2-3 years to build the program and re-evaluate then. IMO, you and others just want to complain and bitch because it hasn’t happened faster than it has ever happened before even for the cream of the coaching crop; by a totally inexperienced coach inheriting a program in historically poor shape in an elite basketball conference. Welcome to reality, that’s where I prefer to hang out.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=282376][quote="Logen" post=282372][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings..[/quote] April 23, 2018 The day Logen referred to many of the redmen,com members as small rodents[/quote]

Yeah, sure, a day that will live in infamy. I call it as I see it.
 
[quote="Logen" post=282429][quote="Class of 72" post=282421][quote="Logen" post=282372][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings. No one has better information than the Mullin haters here. Can't coach, can't recruit, well, can't recruit as well as Nova, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. Just generalities, innuendo and rumors. Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCKMr. . Still in the mix for cream of the crop guys I don't think we will get but we are in the mix by NOT RECRUITING, an incredibly original, out of the box approach.[/quote]

I agree when you say "Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there".
Yes, there is some talent, mostly 3 star talent. However, does anyone think that this level of talent, minus Shamorie Ponds, is talented enough to advance in the Dance?
Also, with your emphasis on the word "recruiting" in caps it should come as no surprise to you that you listed 8 players. Of those eight St. John's only "recruited" 3 of them in the traditional sense. When you add Trimble to that group that makes nine players with only 3 as long term prep recruiting targets.
All the others were as you described "LUCK" in that they only became available to "recruit" AFTER getting their release from their previous school. So, yes, basically Matt gets on the phone and Twitter and gets players looking for a school as opposed to players in the elite category who have to eliminate schools from consideration. With those "elite" players out of high school, except for Slick, we have been eliminated and thus settle for the Trimbles, Wrights, Keita, Caraher, Dixon, etc.
In short, you don't and can't do long term recruiting of TRANSFERS until they get released. That Mr. Logen, is where you don't realize how correct you are when you said "Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCK".

I prefer we don't rely on LUCK but hard work to get kids to play for St. John’s.[/quote]

That fits your narrative well but the fact is there is no “traditional” way to get players. What you call traditional, we are doing, we are “in the running” for elite players but you and others just don’t, won’t or can’t accept the fact we are very much severe underdogs for those types of players, like it or not. You think Mullin doesn’t know that? Paultzman reports on our recruiting of these players and even when news appears favorable often offers his opinion of our chances and I agree with him, our chances for the “Kentucky” type player are slim at best unless we want to start cheating. So Mullin and Matt have their “plan B” model and there it is, they are not sitting back and waiting to see what happens, they are taking the bird in the hand. It is so much easier to complain and mock and ridicule because reality sucks. Listen to a Luther Muhammad talk about the differences between Ohio State and SJU in terms of facilities, campus, campus life, student backing of sports, etc. and again, like it or not, be offended or not, it is two different worlds. I understand most on here are SJU grads and that is hard to accept but it is reality. Could Mullin build the program to a Nova type level? Possible, but people here ignore the reality of how long and hard it was for Wright, how “fans” like the ones who dominate here were calling for Wright’s head after a couple of years just like they are here. And the reality is Wright inherited a situation light years ahead of what Mullin did. Substitute Coach K and Calhoun for Wright and the same statement holds. But the recognition and acknowledgement of that doesn’t fit your and others narrative. No one has a comment when I point out out and that Mullins record for years 2/3 is not that much different than those three, because it just doesn’t fit your narrative. I don’t have a narrative, I look at results. I saw a better team in Mullins second year and then a better team than that in his 3rd. We were one quitter away from possibly being a tournament team quicker than any of the aforementioned elite coaches but that doesn’t fit your narrative. Has Mullin made mistakes, no question. Is he doing it his way, also no question but what other way is there, he is the coach. Did I expect him to come in with no coaching experience and not make mistakes? No way, but obviously you and others did. So I have my opinion, which is to give Mullin another 2-3 years to build the program and re-evaluate then. IMO, you and others just want to complain and bitch because it hasn’t happened faster than it has ever happened before even for the cream of the coaching crop; by a totally inexperienced coach inheriting a program in historically poor shape in an elite basketball conference. Welcome to reality, that’s where I prefer to hang out.[/quote]

[img ]https://media0.giphy.com/media/26FmRKQ6p7gpKekAE/giphy.gif[/img]
 
Look I understand our competition in the recruiting world.We are not a top priority for elite recruits right now. I am more concerned of getting 3 and 4 *athletic players and have the staff and coach, coach them up to a level that they can play with the Dukes,Nova KENTUCKY ETC. Making the NCAA EVERY YR WOULD BE WONDERFUL and it would attract higher ranked players Waiting to enjoy next yr because MO we will be doing better.now if next yr we are at the bottom then something is wrong and decisions will need to be made
 
1. Again, saying "almost" or "being involved" for recruits doesn't count. You either land them or you don't. Everyone is involved. Losing mentality and moving goalpost.

2. I don't think anyone was literal saying Mullin doesn't recruit at all. Seems that many fans (rightfully so) are disappointed that he promised to knock down the NYC gyms and it implied he'd be all over recruiting his arse off. By all accounts that is not the case and insiders have said that he doesn't really visit guys much...maybe only as a closer. That is ridiculous if true especially given his salary. He may be seeing some guys every once in a while but it sounds like he's certainly being outworked.

3. No one is expecting to get all 5 star lottery pick players. We need to consistently get a few 4 star guys and some 3 star glue guys that give continuity. That's a recipe for continued success.

4. I do like the recent signings by staff, however the lack of a big is very concerning and can easily hold us out of the NIT or NCAA tourney next year as a result. The lack of effort by Mullin recruiting is also concerning as is the fact we will apparently not hire a real assistant. These are all valid concerns.
 
Logen, I'm too lazy to take the time to write what you did, but I support your opinion 100%. It is refreshing to know that there are still some sensible fans on these forums. Chris Mullin will succeed, and when he does these fair weather, self-important fans will change their tunes and will act as if their negativity impacted Coach Mullin's decision making. Nothing could be further from the truth.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=282334][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Agree that Matt works hard and has brought a lot to the table. As has been repeatedly mentioned, one man alone should not be responsible for filling an entire D-I basketball roster.

As far as the insinuation that we have not been more successful due to information that fans are not privy, it's hard to digest. Bottom line, if the program cannot fill one very specific need over the course of two recruiting cycles, an adjustment to the recruiting approach or assistant coach make-up should be on the table (which it now seem to be).[/quote]

I think Matt is a terrific guy, and I even believe that his comment about Trimble and all the social media chatting about him leaving is an annoyance to Matt. Such noise by "fans" in the social media era can become self fulfilling prophecies, as in making a kid wonder if he SHOULD be considering his options and leaving.

That being said, while I believe Matt is a really great guy who works his tail off, give the rest of the staff the credit they deserve for their role in closing the deal. If I were 18-20, I'd much rather practice for a guy like St. Jean, who can still run the floor and relates to a college kid better than a 50 year old assistant. If any of you have ever spoken to Mullin for 10 minutes, in the same way Jay Wright is the real deal as a person, so is Chris. No one would ever confuse Chris' charisma with Jay's or vice versa, but both stand heads and tails above most college coaches as genuinely good and honest guys who want the best for their players. That definitely helps close deals, especially for transfers who have been jerked around somewhere else.
 
[quote="Sju grad 13" post=282431][quote="Logen" post=282429][quote="Class of 72" post=282421][quote="Logen" post=282372][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein

Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]

And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]

Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]

I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.

I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?

Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]

Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings. No one has better information than the Mullin haters here. Can't coach, can't recruit, well, can't recruit as well as Nova, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. Just generalities, innuendo and rumors. Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCKMr. . Still in the mix for cream of the crop guys I don't think we will get but we are in the mix by NOT RECRUITING, an incredibly original, out of the box approach.[/quote]

I agree when you say "Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there".
Yes, there is some talent, mostly 3 star talent. However, does anyone think that this level of talent, minus Shamorie Ponds, is talented enough to advance in the Dance?
Also, with your emphasis on the word "recruiting" in caps it should come as no surprise to you that you listed 8 players. Of those eight St. John's only "recruited" 3 of them in the traditional sense. When you add Trimble to that group that makes nine players with only 3 as long term prep recruiting targets.
All the others were as you described "LUCK" in that they only became available to "recruit" AFTER getting their release from their previous school. So, yes, basically Matt gets on the phone and Twitter and gets players looking for a school as opposed to players in the elite category who have to eliminate schools from consideration. With those "elite" players out of high school, except for Slick, we have been eliminated and thus settle for the Trimbles, Wrights, Keita, Caraher, Dixon, etc.
In short, you don't and can't do long term recruiting of TRANSFERS until they get released. That Mr. Logen, is where you don't realize how correct you are when you said "Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCK".

I prefer we don't rely on LUCK but hard work to get kids to play for St. John’s.[/quote]

That fits your narrative well but the fact is there is no “traditional” way to get players. What you call traditional, we are doing, we are “in the running” for elite players but you and others just don’t, won’t or can’t accept the fact we are very much severe underdogs for those types of players, like it or not. You think Mullin doesn’t know that? Paultzman reports on our recruiting of these players and even when news appears favorable often offers his opinion of our chances and I agree with him, our chances for the “Kentucky” type player are slim at best unless we want to start cheating. So Mullin and Matt have their “plan B” model and there it is, they are not sitting back and waiting to see what happens, they are taking the bird in the hand. It is so much easier to complain and mock and ridicule because reality sucks. Listen to a Luther Muhammad talk about the differences between Ohio State and SJU in terms of facilities, campus, campus life, student backing of sports, etc. and again, like it or not, be offended or not, it is two different worlds. I understand most on here are SJU grads and that is hard to accept but it is reality. Could Mullin build the program to a Nova type level? Possible, but people here ignore the reality of how long and hard it was for Wright, how “fans” like the ones who dominate here were calling for Wright’s head after a couple of years just like they are here. And the reality is Wright inherited a situation light years ahead of what Mullin did. Substitute Coach K and Calhoun for Wright and the same statement holds. But the recognition and acknowledgement of that doesn’t fit your and others narrative. No one has a comment when I point out out and that Mullins record for years 2/3 is not that much different than those three, because it just doesn’t fit your narrative. I don’t have a narrative, I look at results. I saw a better team in Mullins second year and then a better team than that in his 3rd. We were one quitter away from possibly being a tournament team quicker than any of the aforementioned elite coaches but that doesn’t fit your narrative. Has Mullin made mistakes, no question. Is he doing it his way, also no question but what other way is there, he is the coach. Did I expect him to come in with no coaching experience and not make mistakes? No way, but obviously you and others did. So I have my opinion, which is to give Mullin another 2-3 years to build the program and re-evaluate then. IMO, you and others just want to complain and bitch because it hasn’t happened faster than it has ever happened before even for the cream of the coaching crop; by a totally inexperienced coach inheriting a program in historically poor shape in an elite basketball conference. Welcome to reality, that’s where I prefer to hang out.[/quote]

[img ]https://media0.giphy.com/media/26FmRKQ6p7gpKekAE/giphy.gif[/img][/quote]

Great post, Logen & nice clip '13.
But realize, it's been a rough 20+ years in the quagmire of losing basketball.
Being joined at the hip and heart to a once-proud hoops tradition is a tough way to 'live' for fanatics.
Guys, including me(!), are venting.
I try to 'see' the big pic--but it's tough when it looks like our recruiting structure & staff are undermanned and sometimes 'absent' at key events.
There's no way to understate the absolutely critical status of the 2019 recruiting class for the future of St. John's basketball, and because basketball funds and energizes the University--the future of St. John's.
I am totally 'in' on next season's team--even without that 1 'big' (maybe still possible?)--and in awe of having gotten LJ and DC and EW.
Let's go Johnnies.
 
Last edited:
Per Corey Evans
St. John's will host 2018 forward Maurice Calloo this weekend for an official visit, per source; Michigan, UConn, Ole Miss, Georgia Tech & Illinois also involved
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=282472]Per Corey Evans
St. John's will host 2018 forward Maurice Calloo this weekend for an official visit, per source; Michigan, UConn, Ole Miss, Georgia Tech & Illinois also involved[/quote]. That will be a rough one. Would be nice to be overwhelmed for a change
 
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