[quote="Class of 72" post=282496][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282490][quote="Class of 72" post=282484][quote="Logen" post=282429][quote="Class of 72" post=282421][quote="Logen" post=282372][quote="PharmaJohnny" post=282328][quote="Mean Gene" post=282322][quote="Tom in Salem" post=282314][quote="Paultzman" post=282309]Robert Morris transfer Dachon Burke tells me he will visit Nebraska on April 25th and 26th.
Rothstein
Likely destination with Nebraska staff all over him for a while[/quote]
And the SJU staff was where?[/quote]
Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there.[/quote]
I agree, @Mean Gene. I completely agree.
I know this thought might be considered heresy, but has anyone considered the possibility that Chris&Co have their reasons for not pursuing certain people, and those reasons could possibly include something other than they ran out of time?
Again, at the risk of losing all Redmen.com privileges and being invited to exit quietly and never post on these forums again - doesn't anyone think they have more/better info than we do, and/or they have assessed aspects of the individual in terms of fit for the short and long term along with the realistic possibilities of signing the individual, and then made appropriate decisions on how hard to pursue?[/quote]
Another post that is just way too intelligent for the lemmings. No one has better information than the Mullin haters here. Can't coach, can't recruit, well, can't recruit as well as Nova, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. Just generalities, innuendo and rumors. Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCKMr. . Still in the mix for cream of the crop guys I don't think we will get but we are in the mix by NOT RECRUITING, an incredibly original, out of the box approach.[/quote]
I agree when you say "Everyone is killing the staff and I understand why but I actually think that Matt as one man on the trail has done a more than admirable job here. He's brought in Figueroa , Williams , Roberts , Earlington, Eli Wright and Caraher, Keita, Dixon in the last two years. There's some talent there".
Yes, there is some talent, mostly 3 star talent. However, does anyone think that this level of talent, minus Shamorie Ponds, is talented enough to advance in the Dance?
Also, with your emphasis on the word "recruiting" in caps it should come as no surprise to you that you listed 8 players. Of those eight St. John's only "recruited" 3 of them in the traditional sense. When you add Trimble to that group that makes nine players with only 3 as long term prep recruiting targets.
All the others were as you described "LUCK" in that they only became available to "recruit" AFTER getting their release from their previous school. So, yes, basically Matt gets on the phone and Twitter and gets players looking for a school as opposed to players in the elite category who have to eliminate schools from consideration. With those "elite" players out of high school, except for Slick, we have been eliminated and thus settle for the Trimbles, Wrights, Keita, Caraher, Dixon, etc.
In short, you don't and can't do long term recruiting of TRANSFERS until they get released. That Mr. Logen, is where you don't realize how correct you are when you said "Yes, we weren't recruiting, just called up a couple of guys last week and they committed, WHAT LUCK".
I prefer we don't rely on LUCK but hard work to get kids to play for St. John’s.[/quote]
That fits your narrative well but the fact is there is no “traditional” way to get players. What you call traditional, we are doing, we are “in the running” for elite players but you and others just don’t, won’t or can’t accept the fact we are very much severe underdogs for those types of players, like it or not. You think Mullin doesn’t know that? Paultzman reports on our recruiting of these players and even when news appears favorable often offers his opinion of our chances and I agree with him, our chances for the “Kentucky” type player are slim at best unless we want to start cheating. So Mullin and Matt have their “plan B” model and there it is, they are not sitting back and waiting to see what happens, they are taking the bird in the hand. It is so much easier to complain and mock and ridicule because reality sucks. Listen to a Luther Muhammad talk about the differences between Ohio State and SJU in terms of facilities, campus, campus life, student backing of sports, etc. and again, like it or not, be offended or not, it is two different worlds. I understand most on here are SJU grads and that is hard to accept but it is reality. Could Mullin build the program to a Nova type level? Possible, but people here ignore the reality of how long and hard it was for Wright, how “fans” like the ones who dominate here were calling for Wright’s head after a couple of years just like they are here. And the reality is Wright inherited a situation light years ahead of what Mullin did. Substitute Coach K and Calhoun for Wright and the same statement holds. But the recognition and acknowledgement of that doesn’t fit your and others narrative. No one has a comment when I point out out and that Mullins record for years 2/3 is not that much different than those three, because it just doesn’t fit your narrative. I don’t have a narrative, I look at results. I saw a better team in Mullins second year and then a better team than that in his 3rd. We were one quitter away from possibly being a tournament team quicker than any of the aforementioned elite coaches but that doesn’t fit your narrative. Has Mullin made mistakes, no question. Is he doing it his way, also no question but what other way is there, he is the coach. Did I expect him to come in with no coaching experience and not make mistakes? No way, but obviously you and others did. So I have my opinion, which is to give Mullin another 2-3 years to build the program and re-evaluate then. IMO, you and others just want to complain and bitch because it hasn’t happened faster than it has ever happened before even for the cream of the coaching crop; by a totally inexperienced coach inheriting a program in historically poor shape in an elite basketball conference. Welcome to reality, that’s where I prefer to hang out.[/quote]
Hey everyone wants St. John's to succeed in the Big East and get to a post season appearance. I'm hoping Mullin and the team go 11-0 in the conference instead of the incredible step backward we took last year going 0-11 because a GUARD going injured. I'm hoping Shamorie Ponds returns and is conference player of the year. I'm hoping Mullin lands Kofi and Gaffney and surprises us with Precious. You notice that I use the term "hope" instead of "expect". That's because the "narrative" in the smaller Big East with a few fans has changed radically with hiring of Chris Mullin. The expectations and the bar have been lowered dramatically. They weren't lowered with the last two legitimate coaching hires, Jarvis and Lavin. In fact, most fans had exceedingly high expectations even though neither were world beaters on the recruiting trail. Yet, within 4 to 5 years they had NBA level talent and went to the NCAA Tournament. We're not talking 20 years ago or longer but quite recently in the redmen era.
So, to hold Mullin to a lower standard is the most defeatist mindset that any sane fan can imagine.
Some knuckleheads keep going back to ancient basketball history with stories of Coach K and Jay Wright rising like some Phoenix from the ashes to establish basketball powers at two small colleges (in terms of undergraduate population) but those "exceptions" are rare and not worthy of comparison to a 50 something coach and staff that literally fell to earth from nowhere to become some professed saviors of a program that never needed saving but rebuilding.
As the most diehard Mullin fans have described Lavin as a dunce and failure after not having coached one losing season and having gone to 4 post season appearances and then bending over to defend 3 straight losing seasons and the worst losing records in St. John's basketball history by Mullin shows the length and desperation you guys go to validate the current mediocrity. We were never considered a mid-major program until schoos like Butler, Creighton and Xavier joined the conference and showed what a colossal failure the management of our basketball program has been in the past 15 years.
Ironically, some sad sack fans cannot come to grips with the fact that we have reached the nadir of our basketball history under Chris Mullin and it may be up to the next coach to actually revive the program because the program didn't need a saviour it needed a coach.
We are all waiting anxiously for Chris Mullin to get stabilized and not for him to stabilize the program. That even his most radical supporter has wondered publicly what is taking him so long and questioning his judgment says volumes. We will have patience and hope because quite frankly we have no choice because of one-sided employment contracts but let's stop pretending like the St. John's team crashed and burned in a Marshall like plane crash and 4 years is not enough to evaluate what is as plain as the basal cell carcinoma on your nose. [/quote]
So if I read you correctly, '72, it's not a "glass half empty" scenario for you - it's more like a "glass is bone dry, we're in the middle of Death Valley barefoot without even so much as a hat at high noon trying to hitch a ride on a road that hasn't seen life since 1985 (or possibly the Elite 8 year of '99)" scenario?
:blink: :blink:
[/quote]
No, you did not read correctly or with a clear mind. Perhaps too much Pharma in your system.
If you, or any other genius here, don't think we have exceeded Norm Roberts level mediocrity then math was not your strong point.
All I'm expecting of the most homeric Homers here is to use year 4 as a barometer for deciding whether change will be necessary. If Mullin gets his first stellar recruiting class and wins 20 games next season then we will all agree he has turned the corner. If he doesn't the program and it's image may be too tarnished under his leadership.
It's that simple. No need to justify anything with far fetch examples of other coaches, etc, because this experiment is unparalleled in modern basketball history.[/quote]
I wasn't so much responding to this particular post as I was to the cumulative. Is it fair to say that you are less than optimistic that Chris&Co will have a successful 2018-2019 season with the team they have, as currently constructed? And where would you stand, say if the glass truly is 'half full" - Chris&Co win 20, but fall just on the wrong side of the bubble and miss out on a tourney bid, HOWEVER, the incoming class is really solid and includes Kofi and other top prospects? Should Chris&Co still be let go?
