Four Recruting Classes: A Summary

[quote="stjohnnie75" post=317009][quote="MJDinkins" post=317005][quote="stjohnnie75" post=317004][quote="MJDinkins" post=317002][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada is an anomaly, not the norm. How many other schools are solely using that pattern and having similar success? Not many, that's for sure.

Lastly, we're not winning. At least, we haven't "won" anything yet with using a comparable formula.[/quote]

Agree but if we were winning (make final four this year and top 10 team next year) would we still bitch about HS recruiting? So is the real issue HS recruiting or just not winning?[/quote]

Both. As, I stated, solely or mainly relying on transfers (and playing winning ball ala Nevada) is an anomaly.[/quote]

I guess we can agree to disagree. If we have success this year and next then I personally wouldn’t care how the roster was constructed.

Though it is an anomaly I don’t think you can say it isn’t working for Nevada.[/quote]

Disagree as you like. That's fine. The proof is in the pudding for the most part.

We'd have to have sustained success for me to be convinced this is the route to go, being it's not the norm. I'm not talking about two years of doing it, either. I prefer balance of HS recruits with a sprinkle of transfers.

You're repeating yourself re: Nevada.... I never said it wasn't working for Nevada. I already said it's an anomaly, and no other schools are pulling off the same pattern of building with any sustained success.
 
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[quote="Marillac" post=316979][quote="Class of 72" post=316966][quote="Marillac" post=316918][quote="Mike Zaun" post=316903][quote="Marillac" post=316871][quote="Knight" post=316863]Starting to think that if there is no invite to the dance, then there is an amicable parting of the ways with CM and staff. Back to square one, but this time with an AD leading.[/quote]

Why even bring this up now?[/quote]

Why not? It's fair game IMO...of course we should all wait until the end of the year to judge and hopefully things get back on track, but fanbases of teams are constantly discussing this stuff. Were us Jets fans not allowed to discuss the possibility of a Bowles replacement while he was still coach? That happened for years even before he was on the hottest of seats and it was warm. If it can't be discussed here then where can it be discussed? It's a SJ basketball forum after all. Just how I see it. People need outlets to discuss these things, it's healthy after a buildup of frustration. You give him the rest of the year and see what happens, but it's not outrageous to discuss the possibility IMO simultaneously. No one is speaking in definite terms. Just my take, feel free to disagree.

Also we are sju, the tri state is chock full of talent. That's not the issue. The issue is we don't have a winning culture and our staff may need tweaking. I think both are related. If it's not allowed here, anyone can feel free to discuss it on the Mullin's Maniacs forum ;)[/quote]

You're just wrong man. This is not the time. How do you even judge a team mid-season following a loss? It's absurd.
We could win just two more or go on to win the Big East and make the Sweet 16. Why not just wait 8-9 weeks and judge the full season?

How can anyone seriously be discussing firing ANOTHER coach?! Do we EVER learn? It's a 3-5 year rebuild every goddamn time. You lose commitments and rapport built with kids spanning 4-5 classes.

Mullin isnt going anywhere next year so this talk does nothing but put negative energy out there and make it tougher for our staff to recruit the missing pieces of a team that could be better next year.[/quote]

I agree when you say "You're just wrong man. This is not the time. How do you even judge a team mid-season following a loss? It's absurd."
However, don't criticize this kid when 2 weeks ago in a burst of exuberance you started a topic about "mid-year" report cards. Of course we weren't 3-4 in the conference then and on the cusp of a national ranking.
You, of all people, should know to be conservative when we have fair weather because a red storm is always on the next horizon.;)[/quote]

I didn't start a mid-year report card thread. I don't think I even responded to it. Other than, you nailed it.[/quote]

Sorry, I always confuse you with Beast.;)
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=317014][quote="Marillac" post=316979][quote="Class of 72" post=316966][quote="Marillac" post=316918][quote="Mike Zaun" post=316903][quote="Marillac" post=316871][quote="Knight" post=316863]Starting to think that if there is no invite to the dance, then there is an amicable parting of the ways with CM and staff. Back to square one, but this time with an AD leading.[/quote]

Why even bring this up now?[/quote]

Why not? It's fair game IMO...of course we should all wait until the end of the year to judge and hopefully things get back on track, but fanbases of teams are constantly discussing this stuff. Were us Jets fans not allowed to discuss the possibility of a Bowles replacement while he was still coach? That happened for years even before he was on the hottest of seats and it was warm. If it can't be discussed here then where can it be discussed? It's a SJ basketball forum after all. Just how I see it. People need outlets to discuss these things, it's healthy after a buildup of frustration. You give him the rest of the year and see what happens, but it's not outrageous to discuss the possibility IMO simultaneously. No one is speaking in definite terms. Just my take, feel free to disagree.

Also we are sju, the tri state is chock full of talent. That's not the issue. The issue is we don't have a winning culture and our staff may need tweaking. I think both are related. If it's not allowed here, anyone can feel free to discuss it on the Mullin's Maniacs forum ;)[/quote]

You're just wrong man. This is not the time. How do you even judge a team mid-season following a loss? It's absurd.
We could win just two more or go on to win the Big East and make the Sweet 16. Why not just wait 8-9 weeks and judge the full season?

How can anyone seriously be discussing firing ANOTHER coach?! Do we EVER learn? It's a 3-5 year rebuild every goddamn time. You lose commitments and rapport built with kids spanning 4-5 classes.

Mullin isnt going anywhere next year so this talk does nothing but put negative energy out there and make it tougher for our staff to recruit the missing pieces of a team that could be better next year.[/quote]

I agree when you say "You're just wrong man. This is not the time. How do you even judge a team mid-season following a loss? It's absurd."
However, don't criticize this kid when 2 weeks ago in a burst of exuberance you started a topic about "mid-year" report cards. Of course we weren't 3-4 in the conference then and on the cusp of a national ranking.
You, of all people, should know to be conservative when we have fair weather because a red storm is always on the next horizon.;)[/quote]

I didn't start a mid-year report card thread. I don't think I even responded to it. Other than, you nailed it.[/quote]

Sorry, I always confuse you with Beast.;)[/quote]

High praise.
 
If you take Fran's last year and Jarvis' first 2 years 1997-2000 SJU went: 13-5(2nd place), 14-4(3rd place) and 12-4(tie for 2nd) in BE play. That is a 3 year stretch of 39-13 in conference play. They were right there with Syracuse and UCONN as the best in the conference arguably. A BE Tourney semi-final loss at the buzzer to Syracuse in 1998, a BE title game loss to eventual NCAA champ UCONN in 1999 and a BE Tourney win in 2000 over UCONN. I think we all agree except for a few decent seasons since then that was the last real stretch post-Louie that SJU was relevant in the BE and nationally.

My point is THAT is the standard that SJU should be shooting for going forward. It wasn't going to happen overnight understood but that is what Mike Cragg wants to see from SJU.
 
After reading all the posts in this thread and others, I think we can all agree that, as fans of the program, we really need a win on Sunday.
 
ok so what i gathered from all this is Matt A is killing the transfer market. Let Matt focus on transfers and reel them in, now we need an Asst to just focus on HS studs. Ideas/?
 
[quote="SJUNC" post=317051]Slice still on the payroll ?[/quote]

Shouldn't matter. That's small school thinking. If almost every school, including the blue bloods, have 2 assistants out recruiting, then St. John's needs to as well. Why try to reinvent the wheel? Programs follow this plan for a reason. It is the best formula for success.
 
[quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada has a lot of size compared to us. A 6'8 bruiser at forward and 3 players 6'11, although not all get a lot run. So maybe the model works better if you get a few JUCOs or transfers over 6'7.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=317027]If you take Fran's last year and Jarvis' first 2 years 1997-2000 SJU went: 13-5(2nd place), 14-4(3rd place) and 12-4(tie for 2nd) in BE play. That is a 3 year stretch of 39-13 in conference play. They were right there with Syracuse and UCONN as the best in the conference arguably. A BE Tourney semi-final loss at the buzzer to Syracuse in 1998, a BE title game loss to eventual NCAA champ UCONN in 1999 and a BE Tourney win in 2000 over UCONN. I think we all agree except for a few decent seasons since then that was the last real stretch post-Louie that SJU was relevant in the BE and nationally.

My point is THAT is the standard that SJU should be shooting for going forward. It wasn't going to happen overnight understood but that is what Mike Cragg wants to see from SJU.[/quote] We were relevant Lavin first year. We were knocking off top 10 teams. Too bad DJ got injured in the BE tourney. The best thing about that year is we had zero expectations. That said,I think most fans are looking for a perinial top 25 program like we had in the 80 s. But, maybe that’s pie in the sky. But it doesn’t cost any money to hope.
 
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[quote="Ray Morgan" post=317148][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada has a lot of size compared to us. A 6'8 bruiser at forward and 3 players 6'11, although not all get a lot run. So maybe the model works better if you get a few JUCOs or transfers over 6'7.[/quote]

Without a doubt. And it appears we are adding some length next year via transfers.

I really have no idea if this model will pan out for us or not. I just think people are making too big of a deal on how our roster is being constructed.
 
[quote="stjohnnie75" post=317161][quote="Ray Morgan" post=317148][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada has a lot of size compared to us. A 6'8 bruiser at forward and 3 players 6'11, although not all get a lot run. So maybe the model works better if you get a few JUCOs or transfers over 6'7.[/quote]

Without a doubt. And it appears we are adding some length next year via transfers.

I really have no idea if this model will pan out for us or not. I just think people are making too big of a deal on how our roster is being constructed.[/quote] I don’t think the problem is the transfer game. But, the lack of depth is going to bite is the arse. Also could use another competent big. Hopefully, Keita will improve. I have no idea how we are going to guard Zion from Duke.
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=317166][quote="stjohnnie75" post=317161][quote="Ray Morgan" post=317148][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada has a lot of size compared to us. A 6'8 bruiser at forward and 3 players 6'11, although not all get a lot run. So maybe the model works better if you get a few JUCOs or transfers over 6'7.[/quote]

Without a doubt. And it appears we are adding some length next year via transfers.

I really have no idea if this model will pan out for us or not. I just think people are making too big of a deal on how our roster is being constructed.[/quote] I don’t think the problem is the transfer game. But, the lack of depth is going to bite is the arse. Also could use another competent big. Hopefully, Keita will improve. I have no idea how we are going to guard Zion from Duke.[/quote]

7 on 5?
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=317167][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=317166][quote="stjohnnie75" post=317161][quote="Ray Morgan" post=317148][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada has a lot of size compared to us. A 6'8 bruiser at forward and 3 players 6'11, although not all get a lot run. So maybe the model works better if you get a few JUCOs or transfers over 6'7.[/quote]

Without a doubt. And it appears we are adding some length next year via transfers.

I really have no idea if this model will pan out for us or not. I just think people are making too big of a deal on how our roster is being constructed.[/quote] I don’t think the problem is the transfer game. But, the lack of depth is going to bite is the arse. Also could use another competent big. Hopefully, Keita will improve. I have no idea how we are going to guard Zion from Duke.[/quote]

7 on 5?[/quote]

The only way to possibly slow Zion Williamson from shredding us is to get good defensive position in the lane and try to take charges. Zion loves to go strong to the hoop because it’s just easy for him with his size combined with extreme athleticism. He can be overly aggressive in that manner.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=317180][quote="Beast of the East" post=317167][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=317166][quote="stjohnnie75" post=317161][quote="Ray Morgan" post=317148][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada has a lot of size compared to us. A 6'8 bruiser at forward and 3 players 6'11, although not all get a lot run. So maybe the model works better if you get a few JUCOs or transfers over 6'7.[/quote]

Without a doubt. And it appears we are adding some length next year via transfers.

I really have no idea if this model will pan out for us or not. I just think people are making too big of a deal on how our roster is being constructed.[/quote] I don’t think the problem is the transfer game. But, the lack of depth is going to bite is the arse. Also could use another competent big. Hopefully, Keita will improve. I have no idea how we are going to guard Zion from Duke.[/quote]

7 on 5?[/quote]

The only way to possibly slow Zion Williamson from shredding us is to get good defensive position in the lane and try to take charges. Zion loves to go strong to the hoop because it’s just easy for him with his size combined with extreme athleticism. He can be overly aggressive in that manner.[/quote]

True, but he may kill a couple of our guys!
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=317180][quote="Beast of the East" post=317167][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=317166][quote="stjohnnie75" post=317161][quote="Ray Morgan" post=317148][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada has a lot of size compared to us. A 6'8 bruiser at forward and 3 players 6'11, although not all get a lot run. So maybe the model works better if you get a few JUCOs or transfers over 6'7.[/quote]

Without a doubt. And it appears we are adding some length next year via transfers.

I really have no idea if this model will pan out for us or not. I just think people are making too big of a deal on how our roster is being constructed.[/quote] I don’t think the problem is the transfer game. But, the lack of depth is going to bite is the arse. Also could use another competent big. Hopefully, Keita will improve. I have no idea how we are going to guard Zion from Duke.[/quote]

7 on 5?[/quote]

The only way to possibly slow Zion Williamson from shredding us is to get good defensive position in the lane and try to take charges. Zion loves to go strong to the hoop because it’s just easy for him with his size combined with extreme athleticism. He can be overly aggressive in that manner.[/quote]

We need Larry David on the floor to trip him the way he tripped Shaq
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=317166][quote="stjohnnie75" post=317161][quote="Ray Morgan" post=317148][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada has a lot of size compared to us. A 6'8 bruiser at forward and 3 players 6'11, although not all get a lot run. So maybe the model works better if you get a few JUCOs or transfers over 6'7.[/quote]

Without a doubt. And it appears we are adding some length next year via transfers.

I really have no idea if this model will pan out for us or not. I just think people are making too big of a deal on how our roster is being constructed.[/quote] I don’t think the problem is the transfer game. But, the lack of depth is going to bite is the arse. Also could use another competent big. Hopefully, Keita will improve. I have no idea how we are going to guard Zion from Duke.[/quote]

We will guard Zion the same as everyone else: Poorly. On that front, we aren't alone. Like Paul Reiser said in Diner about Earl after he ate the whole left side of the menu: : "He's like a building with feet"
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=317180][quote="Beast of the East" post=317167][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=317166][quote="stjohnnie75" post=317161][quote="Ray Morgan" post=317148][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada has a lot of size compared to us. A 6'8 bruiser at forward and 3 players 6'11, although not all get a lot run. So maybe the model works better if you get a few JUCOs or transfers over 6'7.[/quote]

Without a doubt. And it appears we are adding some length next year via transfers.

I really have no idea if this model will pan out for us or not. I just think people are making too big of a deal on how our roster is being constructed.[/quote] I don’t think the problem is the transfer game. But, the lack of depth is going to bite is the arse. Also could use another competent big. Hopefully, Keita will improve. I have no idea how we are going to guard Zion from Duke.[/quote]

7 on 5?[/quote]

The only way to possibly slow Zion Williamson from shredding us is to get good defensive position in the lane and try to take charges. Zion loves to go strong to the hoop because it’s just easy for him with his size combined with extreme athleticism. He can be overly aggressive in that manner.[/quote]
How many charges are they going to call on Zion at Cameron?
 
[quote="bamafan" post=317198][quote="Mean Gene" post=317180][quote="Beast of the East" post=317167][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=317166][quote="stjohnnie75" post=317161][quote="Ray Morgan" post=317148][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316997]Are Nevada fans complaining about their lack of HS recruits? Bottom line if the team is winning it doesn’t matter how the roster was constructed.[/quote]

Nevada has a lot of size compared to us. A 6'8 bruiser at forward and 3 players 6'11, although not all get a lot run. So maybe the model works better if you get a few JUCOs or transfers over 6'7.[/quote]

Without a doubt. And it appears we are adding some length next year via transfers.

I really have no idea if this model will pan out for us or not. I just think people are making too big of a deal on how our roster is being constructed.[/quote] I don’t think the problem is the transfer game. But, the lack of depth is going to bite is the arse. Also could use another competent big. Hopefully, Keita will improve. I have no idea how we are going to guard Zion from Duke.[/quote]

7 on 5?[/quote]

The only way to possibly slow Zion Williamson from shredding us is to get good defensive position in the lane and try to take charges. Zion loves to go strong to the hoop because it’s just easy for him with his size combined with extreme athleticism. He can be overly aggressive in that manner.[/quote]
How many charges are they going to call on Zion at Cameron?[/quote] Your right, home court for Duke, plus charges are often miscalled as blocking fouls. Clark and Keita are going to have to be very careful. Can’t have half the team foul out or we’ll be playing the walk ons. But, right now I’ll try to focus on Georgetown.
 
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