Fire Lavin!

Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU
Click to expand...
Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.
Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you a serious question.

Coach Lavin has now been here four years. His first team went 21-12, finished fifth in the league, and lost early in the NCAAs. We all know that was a team of seniors that he had little to do with other than turning Dwight Hardy loose, which his predecessor couldn't figure out how to do. Give him some credit for that, no problem.

Since then his teams have gone 13-19 and 17-16 (both years finishing 11th in the league), and this year 20-11 and fifth in a much smaller, weaker league. He made the NIT in two of those three years (once by the skin of his teeth), and got pummeled by a mid-major early both times.

This season after losing to Penn State (who finished 6-12 in the Big 10, went on to play in the CBI and lost to Siena, finishing with a sub-.500 record for the year) in what was essentially a home game, Coach Lavin's team went on to lose its first five games in league play, including one to DePaul, the eventual last-place team in the league.

In the past three years in the league SJU has ranked as follows (bear in mind the last year is out of 10 teams):

Scoring 14th, 12th 4th
FG %: 14th, 11th, 6th
3 Pt %: 16th, 15th, 6th
FT %: 12th, 15th, 6th
Assists: 16th, 12th, 7th

Along the way we have had more transfers, suspensions, ineligible players, players leaving early, and drama than I can remember at any time in the history of St. John's basketball, which I've been following for probably 35 years.

The current team is losing two big men to graduation (Gift and Sanchez). There are questions as to whether Obekpa will return, with rumbles that he feels he has not been properly developed. I don't think you would argue that Jakarr isn't ready for the NBA. He has NBA talent, but he needs at least another year. As it stands he will probably be a second round pick and he can hope to stick on somebody's roster as a developmental project instead of getting sent to the D league.

So you are looking at a team with potentially zero returning big men, to be replaced by a redshirt (Jones) and a player who most think is a long term project.

Those are all pretty much facts. I am not even going to get into the realm of opinion with you on whether the team has been consistently well-prepared, has a coherent and effective offensive and defensive approach, plays intelligent basketball, whether the substitution patterns make sense, etc.

The question is, on the facts above (and any other ones you want to toss in), can it be said that Coach Lavin has done a good job?

If the answer is yes, then what does that say about our expectations as St John's fans?
Click to expand...

What does this have to do with my post? Verbosity isn't always the best route.
 
Look at the title of the thread for relevance. Also Muse's point was that in his opinion Sampson is leaving because Lavin is not succeeding as a coach. But YMMV
 
Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU
Click to expand...

Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.

Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.
Click to expand...

...and an array of reasons why they stay in school, including the relationship with their coach and teammates, the opportunity to improve as a player and grow as a person(includes getting a degree), the chance to do something special as a team, etc. I surmise that many of the reasons a kid stays in school-or even stays at this school-are non factors here.
Click to expand...

Players leave school early all the time. Usually, for different reasons. The main reason tends to be they wanna chase their dream of playing professionally (preferably, the NBA). You pay more attention to St. John's, so you're more locked in to what is happening with the program. It happens at alot of programs.

You nor I know why he chose to leave school. So, no need to make assumptions about the situation 'til there is reliable info on why he left. Then again, the only reason he might've left may be because he actually felt he was ready.
Click to expand...

A large amount of what is written on here is assumption. For instance: "I also feel Sampson bolted because he always thought he'd leave early, and felt he was behind schedule after the prep year". I also feel that's a fair assumption to make.
 
Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU
Click to expand...

Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.

Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.
Click to expand...

...and an array of reasons why they stay in school, including the relationship with their coach and teammates, the opportunity to improve as a player and grow as a person(includes getting a degree), the chance to do something special as a team, etc. I surmise that many of the reasons a kid stays in school-or even stays at this school-are non factors here.
Click to expand...

Players leave school early all the time. Usually, for different reasons. The main reason tends to be they wanna chase their dream of playing professionally (preferably, the NBA). You pay more attention to St. John's, so you're more locked in to what is happening with the program. It happens at alot of programs.

You nor I know why he chose to leave school. So, no need to make assumptions about the situation 'til there is reliable info on why he left. Then again, the only reason he might've left may be because he actually felt he was ready.
Click to expand...

A large amount of what is written on here is assumption. For instance: "I also feel Sampson bolted because he always thought he'd leave early, and felt he was behind schedule after the prep year". I also feel that's a fair assumption to make.
Click to expand...

His AAU coach talked about him being a pro player when he initially committed to us. I would bet that wasn't the first time Sampson had heard such.

http://zagsblog.com/articles/jakarr-sampson-to-st-johns/

There is a difference between conveying an assumption like it's facts. Sometimes, things are at face value. There could be more than meets the eye, in this case, but then again it could be just what Sampson stated in his press conference.

Kids leave early all the time for a myriad of reasons. Most times it's all about them trying to live out their dream of playing in the NBA. Realistically or not.
 
Jakarr out and out said he played to a certain style early in the season to the detriment of the team in order to get NBA scouts to notice.

There was no way he wanted another year of college ball.
 
Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU
Click to expand...

Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.

Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.
Click to expand...

...and an array of reasons why they stay in school, including the relationship with their coach and teammates, the opportunity to improve as a player and grow as a person(includes getting a degree), the chance to do something special as a team, etc. I surmise that many of the reasons a kid stays in school-or even stays at this school-are non factors here.
Click to expand...

Players leave school early all the time. Usually, for different reasons. The main reason tends to be they wanna chase their dream of playing professionally (preferably, the NBA). You pay more attention to St. John's, so you're more locked in to what is happening with the program. It happens at alot of programs.

You nor I know why he chose to leave school. So, no need to make assumptions about the situation 'til there is reliable info on why he left. Then again, the only reason he might've left may be because he actually felt he was ready.
Click to expand...

A large amount of what is written on here is assumption. For instance: "I also feel Sampson bolted because he always thought he'd leave early, and felt he was behind schedule after the prep year". I also feel that's a fair assumption to make.
Click to expand...

His AAU coach talked about him being a pro player when he initially committed to us. I would bet that wasn't the first time Sampson had heard such.

http://zagsblog.com/articles/jakarr-sampson-to-st-johns/

There is a difference between conveying an assumption like it's facts. Sometimes, things are at face value. There could be more than meets the eye, in this case, but then again it could be just what Sampson stated in his press conference.

Kids leave early all the time for a myriad of reasons. Most times it's all about them trying to live out their dream of playing in the NBA. Realistically or not.
Click to expand...

I agree that a large component of leaving early is to live out their dreams of playing pro ball. However there are also a lot of reasons for kids to stay in school. The fact that both Samson and Obekpa (if rumors are true) are leaving at the same time and are far from NBA ready, leads some of us to believe that there may be other factors contributing to their decisions to not want to return.
 
Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU
Click to expand...

Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.

Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.
Click to expand...

...and an array of reasons why they stay in school, including the relationship with their coach and teammates, the opportunity to improve as a player and grow as a person(includes getting a degree), the chance to do something special as a team, etc. I surmise that many of the reasons a kid stays in school-or even stays at this school-are non factors here.
Click to expand...

Players leave school early all the time. Usually, for different reasons. The main reason tends to be they wanna chase their dream of playing professionally (preferably, the NBA). You pay more attention to St. John's, so you're more locked in to what is happening with the program. It happens at alot of programs.

You nor I know why he chose to leave school. So, no need to make assumptions about the situation 'til there is reliable info on why he left. Then again, the only reason he might've left may be because he actually felt he was ready.
Click to expand...

A large amount of what is written on here is assumption. For instance: "I also feel Sampson bolted because he always thought he'd leave early, and felt he was behind schedule after the prep year". I also feel that's a fair assumption to make.
Click to expand...

His AAU coach talked about him being a pro player when he initially committed to us. I would bet that wasn't the first time Sampson had heard such.

http://zagsblog.com/articles/jakarr-sampson-to-st-johns/

There is a difference between conveying an assumption like it's facts. Sometimes, things are at face value. There could be more than meets the eye, in this case, but then again it could be just what Sampson stated in his press conference.

Kids leave early all the time for a myriad of reasons. Most times it's all about them trying to live out their dream of playing in the NBA. Realistically or not.
Click to expand...

I agree that a large component of leaving early is to live out their dreams of playing pro ball. However there are also a lot of reasons for kids to stay in school. The fact that both Samson and Obekpa (if rumors are true) are leaving at the same time and are far from NBA ready, leads some of us to believe that there may be other factors contributing to their decisions to not want to return.
Click to expand...

Considering, Obekpa pondered leaving after last season, then it wouldn't be all too surprising to see him ponder it again this season.

There is nothing wrong with assuming other factors could be at play. My point was conveying those assumptions as some form of truth. Sometimes, it's not what is said. It's how it's said.
 
I just read all of Slick Steve's press conference quotes and just have one question......

Is he delusional or does he think we are?

There is spin and there is offensive.
 
Lavin did create some upfront excitement, but we now find ourselves in a very dark place. Some of us saw it earlier than others, and some still may not see it. Regardless, the outlook is bleak. Not only do we have no 2014 recruits (unforgivable), players are unhappy in the program. Let us not forget that current players play a role in recruiting. They have existing relationships with recruits and their coaches. Also, Lavin's coaching abilities are well known. This will be used by players when making a decision to come to St. John's and used against Lavin by opposing coaches (admittedly a classless approach, but does happen). My point is that Lavin's strength (recruiting) is becoming neutralized.

For me, knowing we have to rebuild this whole thing (yet again), I sincerely hope we choose a new coach to lead us through the process. It's just so clear that Lavin's short comings will repeatedly doom us.
 
Lavin did create some upfront excitement, but we now find ourselves in a very dark place. Some of us saw it earlier than others, and some still may not see it. Regardless, the outlook is bleak. Not only do we have no 2014 recruits (unforgivable), players are unhappy in the program. Let us not forget that current players play a role in recruiting. They have existing relationships with recruits and their coaches. Also, Lavin's coaching abilities are well known. This will be used by players when making a decision to come to St. John's and used against Lavin by opposing coaches (admittedly a classless approach, but does happen). My point is that Lavin's strength (recruiting) is becoming neutralized.

For me, knowing we have to rebuild this whole thing (yet again), I sincerely hope we choose a new coach to lead us through the process. It's just so clear that Lavin's short comings will repeatedly doom us.
Click to expand...

Sorry - your posts aren't very clear to me. So you're saying you don't like Lavin?
 
Lavin did create some upfront excitement, but we now find ourselves in a very dark place. Some of us saw it earlier than others, and some still may not see it. Regardless, the outlook is bleak. Not only do we have no 2014 recruits (unforgivable), players are unhappy in the program. Let us not forget that current players play a role in recruiting. They have existing relationships with recruits and their coaches. Also, Lavin's coaching abilities are well known. This will be used by players when making a decision to come to St. John's and used against Lavin by opposing coaches (admittedly a classless approach, but does happen). My point is that Lavin's strength (recruiting) is becoming neutralized.

For me, knowing we have to rebuild this whole thing (yet again), I sincerely hope we choose a new coach to lead us through the process. It's just so clear that Lavin's short comings will repeatedly doom us.
Click to expand...

Sorry - your posts aren't very clear to me. So you're saying you don't like Lavin?
Click to expand...

LOL
 
Lavin did create some upfront excitement, but we now find ourselves in a very dark place. Some of us saw it earlier than others, and some still may not see it. Regardless, the outlook is bleak. Not only do we have no 2014 recruits (unforgivable), players are unhappy in the program. Let us not forget that current players play a role in recruiting. They have existing relationships with recruits and their coaches. Also, Lavin's coaching abilities are well known. This will be used by players when making a decision to come to St. John's and used against Lavin by opposing coaches (admittedly a classless approach, but does happen). My point is that Lavin's strength (recruiting) is becoming neutralized.

For me, knowing we have to rebuild this whole thing (yet again), I sincerely hope we choose a new coach to lead us through the process. It's just so clear that Lavin's short comings will repeatedly doom us.
Click to expand...

Sorry - your posts aren't very clear to me. So you're saying you don't like Lavin?
Click to expand...

LOL
Click to expand...

Lavin supporters are like the thought police. The truth hurts, so they attempt to persuade folks from discussing disapproval of their wizard.

That said, if it's about Dom, Phil or Antoine Mason (or anything they agree with), repeat posting is not a problem.
 
Lavin did create some upfront excitement, but we now find ourselves in a very dark place. Some of us saw it earlier than others, and some still may not see it. Regardless, the outlook is bleak. Not only do we have no 2014 recruits (unforgivable), players are unhappy in the program. Let us not forget that current players play a role in recruiting. They have existing relationships with recruits and their coaches. Also, Lavin's coaching abilities are well known. This will be used by players when making a decision to come to St. John's and used against Lavin by opposing coaches (admittedly a classless approach, but does happen). My point is that Lavin's strength (recruiting) is becoming neutralized.

For me, knowing we have to rebuild this whole thing (yet again), I sincerely hope we choose a new coach to lead us through the process. It's just so clear that Lavin's short comings will repeatedly doom us.
Click to expand...

Sorry - your posts aren't very clear to me. So you're saying you don't like Lavin?
Click to expand...

LOL
Click to expand...

Lavin supporters are like the thought police. The truth hurts, so they attempt to persuade folks from discussing disapproval of their wizard.

That said, if it's about Dom, Phil or Antoine Mason (or anything they agree with), repeat posting is not a problem.
Click to expand...

Where are the Lavin supporters? Just guys that don't like to read the same posters (even those who changed their screen names) repeating the same thing ad nauseum, regardless of the point of the thread. Tedious, tiresome, trite, etc.
 
Lavin did create some upfront excitement, but we now find ourselves in a very dark place. Some of us saw it earlier than others, and some still may not see it. Regardless, the outlook is bleak. Not only do we have no 2014 recruits (unforgivable), players are unhappy in the program. Let us not forget that current players play a role in recruiting. They have existing relationships with recruits and their coaches. Also, Lavin's coaching abilities are well known. This will be used by players when making a decision to come to St. John's and used against Lavin by opposing coaches (admittedly a classless approach, but does happen). My point is that Lavin's strength (recruiting) is becoming neutralized.

For me, knowing we have to rebuild this whole thing (yet again), I sincerely hope we choose a new coach to lead us through the process. It's just so clear that Lavin's short comings will repeatedly doom us.
Click to expand...

Sorry - your posts aren't very clear to me. So you're saying you don't like Lavin?
Click to expand...

LOL
Click to expand...

Lavin supporters are like the thought police. The truth hurts, so they attempt to persuade folks from discussing disapproval of their wizard.

That said, if it's about Dom, Phil or Antoine Mason (or anything they agree with), repeat posting is not a problem.
Click to expand...

Where are the Lavin supporters? Just guys that don't like to read the same posters (even those who changed their screen names) repeating the same thing ad nauseum, regardless of the point of the thread. Tedious, tiresome, trite, etc.
Click to expand...

Don't care for your posts either. You'll get over it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top