Fire Lavin!

[frank61]

Give Lavin his extension, then we can turn our atttention to recruiting and acquiring a top notch X&O assistant. Let's get the past in our rear view mirror and deal with the future. I do not want this team just hanging in mediocrity. I know there is a lot of disgust and unhappyness, but it is time to act. I do not think SJU is going to remove the coach, so let's move on.This negative tone only festers and achieves nothing. That's just my opinion.

 

[room112]

At this point, I don't even need a plum to fall into our laps. Let's just get Obekpa back, that's priority 1,2, and3. Delarosa would be nice, but he'll never be more than a role player IMO. Which we need, don't get me wrong. We need front court depth.

But get Obekpa back, and next season will hold a lot of promise.

I'd love a banger who can drop 10 pts a game and 8 boards. Someone with the potential of say, a Sanchez but who delivers.

Exactly. Everyone doesn't have to be a star. How about someone who can fill up space in the middle and be enough of a presence to rebound effectively. I've been pretty disapointed with Obepka's rebounding numbers.

 

[room112]

Give Lavin his extension, then we can turn our atttention to recruiting and acquiring a top notch X&O assistant. Let's get the past in our rear view mirror and deal with the future. I do not want this team just hanging in mediocrity. I know there is a lot of disgust and unhappyness, but it is time to act. I do not think SJU is going to remove the coach, so let's move on.This negative tone only festers and achieves nothing. That's just my opinion.

Can we put him on the rolling 5 year contract that Norm was on? Man was that a farce.

 

[MJDinkins]

This negative tone only festers and achieves nothing. That's just my opinion.

Especially, when it's mentioned in every, single thread that is on the first and second page of the forum.

I get it, and certainly understand the hostility to a degree (contrary to what a handful may think, I certainly wasn't a fan of this season). But every, thread doesn't need to be derailed by it.

 

[JohnnyFan]

This negative tone only festers and achieves nothing. That's just my opinion.

Especially, when it's mentioned in every, single thread that is on the first and second page of the forum.

I get it, and certainly understand the hostility to a degree (contrary to what a handful may think, I certainly wasn't a fan of this season). But every, thread doesn't need to be derailed by it.

However, this thread is titled "Fire Lavin!". So it is exactly the place to express your thoughts on replacing the coach.

 

[MJDinkins]

This negative tone only festers and achieves nothing. That's just my opinion.

Especially, when it's mentioned in every, single thread that is on the first and second page of the forum.

I get it, and certainly understand the hostility to a degree (contrary to what a handful may think, I certainly wasn't a fan of this season). But every, thread doesn't need to be derailed by it.

However, this thread is titled "Fire Lavin!". So it is exactly the place to express your thoughts on replacing the coach.

Yes, it is. But I was responding to a post in the thread. Missed the boat, per usual.

 

[capmaker]

http://zagsblog.com/articles/report-steve-masiello-emerges-as-serious-candidate-at-south-florida/

 

[1and1sju]

I don't blame coach Lavin at all for Samoson leaving, so let's get that out of the way.

But a lot of posters here said that one of their main reasons for being willing to ride out another season or two with Lavin before making judgment was because they didn't want to "rebuild" or "start over".

That was under the assumption that we were building towards something in the immediate future. Without Sampson (and Sanchez and gift) and who knows who else, it's becoming distinctly possible next year won't be the culmination we thought it was. And if anyone thinks we'll see Jordan beyond his soph year then I have a bridge to sell them.

It's looking more and more like well be starting over in 2015... And if that's the case, and this season was the team's "peak", then what are we waiting for? Make a change now. If anyone else joins Sampson we'll be in rebuild mode THIS season.

 

[monte]

I don't blame coach Lavin at all for Samoson leaving, so let's get that out of the way.

But a lot of posters here said that one of their main reasons for being willing to ride out another season or two with Lavin before making judgment was because they didn't want to "rebuild" or "start over".

That was under the assumption that we were building towards something in the immediate future. Without Sampson (and Sanchez and gift) and who knows who else, it's becoming distinctly possible next year won't be the culmination we thought it was. And if anyone thinks we'll see Jordan beyond his soph year then I have a bridge to sell them.

It's looking more and more like well be starting over in 2015... And if that's the case, and this season was the team's "peak", then what are we waiting for? Make a change now. If anyone else joins Sampson we'll be in rebuild mode THIS season.

This kind of constant re-building is in large part a result of the fact that Lavin does not recruit any solid 4 year type players.

 

[Muse]

Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU

 

[monte]

Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU

I think that's a very fair assumption.

 

[JohnnyFan]

Now is the time for new leadership. I agree with Desco, we are in re-building mode right now. We have absolutely NO forwards who can score consistently. You think our offense was stagnant this year?

Let's reload with someone who can coach basketball. Lavin is smoke, mirrors and hype. If we extend him, we live this same fate on repeat.

 

[MJDinkins]

Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU

Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.

Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.

 

[lawmanfan]

Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU

Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.
Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.

Let me ask you a serious question.

Coach Lavin has now been here four years. His first team went 21-12, finished fifth in the league, and lost early in the NCAAs. We all know that was a team of seniors that he had little to do with other than turning Dwight Hardy loose, which his predecessor couldn't figure out how to do. Give him some credit for that, no problem.

Since then his teams have gone 13-19 and 17-16 (both years finishing 11th in the league), and this year 20-11 and fifth in a much smaller, weaker league. He made the NIT in two of those three years (once by the skin of his teeth), and got pummeled by a mid-major early both times.

This season after losing to Penn State (who finished 6-12 in the Big 10, went on to play in the CBI and lost to Siena, finishing with a sub-.500 record for the year) in what was essentially a home game, Coach Lavin's team went on to lose its first five games in league play, including one to DePaul, the eventual last-place team in the league.

In the past three years in the league SJU has ranked as follows (bear in mind the last year is out of 10 teams):

Scoring 14th, 12th 4th
FG %: 14th, 11th, 6th
3 Pt %: 16th, 15th, 6th
FT %: 12th, 15th, 6th
Assists: 16th, 12th, 7th

Along the way we have had more transfers, suspensions, ineligible players, players leaving early, and drama than I can remember at any time in the history of St. John's basketball, which I've been following for probably 35 years.

The current team is losing two big men to graduation (Gift and Sanchez). There are questions as to whether Obekpa will return, with rumbles that he feels he has not been properly developed. I don't think you would argue that Jakarr isn't ready for the NBA. He has NBA talent, but he needs at least another year. As it stands he will probably be a second round pick and he can hope to stick on somebody's roster as a developmental project instead of getting sent to the D league.

So you are looking at a team with potentially zero returning big men, to be replaced by a redshirt (Jones) and a player who most think is a long term project.

Those are all pretty much facts. I am not even going to get into the realm of opinion with you on whether the team has been consistently well-prepared, has a coherent and effective offensive and defensive approach, plays intelligent basketball, whether the substitution patterns make sense, etc.

The question is, on the facts above (and any other ones you want to toss in), can it be said that Coach Lavin has done a good job?

If the answer is yes, then what does that say about our expectations as St John's fans?

 

[Andrew]

Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU

Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.
Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.

Let me ask you a serious question.

Coach Lavin has now been here four years. His first team went 21-12, finished fifth in the league, and lost early in the NCAAs. We all know that was a team of seniors that he had little to do with other than turning Dwight Hardy loose, which his predecessor couldn't figure out how to do. Give him some credit for that, no problem.

Since then his teams have gone 13-19 and 17-16 (both years finishing 11th in the league), and this year 20-11 and fifth in a much smaller, weaker league. He made the NIT in two of those three years (once by the skin of his teeth), and got pummeled by a mid-major early both times.

This season after losing to Penn State (who finished 6-12 in the Big 10, went on to play in the CBI and lost to Siena, finishing with a sub-.500 record for the year) in what was essentially a home game, Coach Lavin's team went on to lose its first five games in league play, including one to DePaul, the eventual last-place team in the league.

In the past three years in the league SJU has ranked as follows (bear in mind the last year is out of 10 teams):

Scoring 14th, 12th 4th
FG %: 14th, 11th, 6th
3 Pt %: 16th, 15th, 6th
FT %: 12th, 15th, 6th
Assists: 16th, 12th, 7th

Along the way we have had more transfers, suspensions, ineligible players, players leaving early, and drama than I can remember at any time in the history of St. John's basketball, which I've been following for probably 35 years.

The current team is losing two big men to graduation (Gift and Sanchez). There are questions as to whether Obekpa will return, with rumbles that he feels he has not been properly developed. I don't think you would argue that Jakarr isn't ready for the NBA. He has NBA talent, but he needs at least another year. As it stands he will probably be a second round pick and he can hope to stick on somebody's roster as a developmental project instead of getting sent to the D league.

So you are looking at a team with potentially zero returning big men, to be replaced by a redshirt (Jones) and a player who most think is a long term project.

Those are all pretty much facts. I am not even going to get into the realm of opinion with you on whether the team has been consistently well-prepared, has a coherent and effective offensive and defensive approach, plays intelligent basketball, whether the substitution patterns make sense, etc.

The question is, on the facts above (and any other ones you want to toss in), can it be said that Coach Lavin has done a good job?

If the answer is yes, then what does that say about our expectations as St John's fans?

I agree except they were knocked out of the NIT by Virginia and not a mid major two years ago.

 

[beast of the east]

I don't blame coach Lavin at all for Samoson leaving, so let's get that out of the way.

But a lot of posters here said that one of their main reasons for being willing to ride out another season or two with Lavin before making judgment was because they didn't want to "rebuild" or "start over".

That was under the assumption that we were building towards something in the immediate future. Without Sampson (and Sanchez and gift) and who knows who else, it's becoming distinctly possible next year won't be the culmination we thought it was. And if anyone thinks we'll see Jordan beyond his soph year then I have a bridge to sell them.

It's looking more and more like well be starting over in 2015... And if that's the case, and this season was the team's "peak", then what are we waiting for? Make a change now. If anyone else joins Sampson we'll be in rebuild mode THIS season.

This kind of constant re-building is in large part a result of the fact that Lavin does not recruit any solid 4 year type players.

Are you saying we shouldn't recruit all the NBA level talent that we should? Four year players stay for one big reason - they usually aren't talented enough to make the NBA - (or their dads coach them)

 

[monte]

I don't blame coach Lavin at all for Samoson leaving, so let's get that out of the way.

But a lot of posters here said that one of their main reasons for being willing to ride out another season or two with Lavin before making judgment was because they didn't want to "rebuild" or "start over".

That was under the assumption that we were building towards something in the immediate future. Without Sampson (and Sanchez and gift) and who knows who else, it's becoming distinctly possible next year won't be the culmination we thought it was. And if anyone thinks we'll see Jordan beyond his soph year then I have a bridge to sell them.

It's looking more and more like well be starting over in 2015... And if that's the case, and this season was the team's "peak", then what are we waiting for? Make a change now. If anyone else joins Sampson we'll be in rebuild mode THIS season.

This kind of constant re-building is in large part a result of the fact that Lavin does not recruit any solid 4 year type players.

Are you saying we shouldn't recruit all the NBA level talent that we should? Four year players stay for one big reason - they usually aren't talented enough to make the NBA - (or their dads coach them)

He should have been recruiting both. That is what makes for a balanced roster. Perfect example: Ron Roberts, who he had and let go. Stayed 4 years at St. Joes.

 

[monte]

Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU

Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.

Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.

...and an array of reasons why they stay in school, including the relationship with their coach and teammates, the opportunity to improve as a player and grow as a person(includes getting a degree), the chance to do something special as a team, etc. I surmise that many of the reasons a kid stays in school-or even stays at this school-are non factors here.

 

[room112]

Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU

Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.
Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.

Let me ask you a serious question.

Coach Lavin has now been here four years. His first team went 21-12, finished fifth in the league, and lost early in the NCAAs. We all know that was a team of seniors that he had little to do with other than turning Dwight Hardy loose, which his predecessor couldn't figure out how to do. Give him some credit for that, no problem.

Since then his teams have gone 13-19 and 17-16 (both years finishing 11th in the league), and this year 20-11 and fifth in a much smaller, weaker league. He made the NIT in two of those three years (once by the skin of his teeth), and got pummeled by a mid-major early both times.

This season after losing to Penn State (who finished 6-12 in the Big 10, went on to play in the CBI and lost to Siena, finishing with a sub-.500 record for the year) in what was essentially a home game, Coach Lavin's team went on to lose its first five games in league play, including one to DePaul, the eventual last-place team in the league.

In the past three years in the league SJU has ranked as follows (bear in mind the last year is out of 10 teams):

Scoring 14th, 12th 4th
FG %: 14th, 11th, 6th
3 Pt %: 16th, 15th, 6th
FT %: 12th, 15th, 6th
Assists: 16th, 12th, 7th

Along the way we have had more transfers, suspensions, ineligible players, players leaving early, and drama than I can remember at any time in the history of St. John's basketball, which I've been following for probably 35 years.

The current team is losing two big men to graduation (Gift and Sanchez). There are questions as to whether Obekpa will return, with rumbles that he feels he has not been properly developed. I don't think you would argue that Jakarr isn't ready for the NBA. He has NBA talent, but he needs at least another year. As it stands he will probably be a second round pick and he can hope to stick on somebody's roster as a developmental project instead of getting sent to the D league.

So you are looking at a team with potentially zero returning big men, to be replaced by a redshirt (Jones) and a player who most think is a long term project.

Those are all pretty much facts. I am not even going to get into the realm of opinion with you on whether the team has been consistently well-prepared, has a coherent and effective offensive and defensive approach, plays intelligent basketball, whether the substitution patterns make sense, etc.

The question is, on the facts above (and any other ones you want to toss in), can it be said that Coach Lavin has done a good job?

If the answer is yes, then what does that say about our expectations as St John's fans?

Fair post. I just don't see how we can have grand expectations, and that starts with the administration. Sure, they made a splash by hiring Lavin, but since I've been a fan, things have been run like a "mom and pop" type of organization. Pair that with the fact that we don't have the funding, facilities and resources to compete with the top schools, and I almost feel like we're slipping closer to mid-major level every year. This isn't the 80's anymore where you can just grab a subway token and jump on the train to check out recruits. The whole game has changed. Due to social media, kids are treated like superstars now and want to feel that. How do you think kids feel playing home games in a high school feeling gym on campus in front of a few thousand people at most? Most other fan bases are way more passionate and way bigger than ours and it shows. Plus, we haven't been relevant in so long that St. John's isn't a major destination like it used to be.

 

[MJDinkins]

Doubt Samson would have declared if he was content in the Lavin enviorment or even if he could for see a future for himself or the team at SJU

Players can have an array of reasons why they leave school.

Those could be reasons only a player supposedly understands.

...and an array of reasons why they stay in school, including the relationship with their coach and teammates, the opportunity to improve as a player and grow as a person(includes getting a degree), the chance to do something special as a team, etc. I surmise that many of the reasons a kid stays in school-or even stays at this school-are non factors here.

Players leave school early all the time. Usually, for different reasons. The main reason tends to be they wanna chase their dream of playing professionally (preferably, the NBA). You pay more attention to St. John's, so you're more locked in to what is happening with the program. It happens at alot of programs.

You nor I know why he chose to leave school. So, no need to make assumptions about the situation 'til there is reliable info on why he left. Then again, the only reason he might've left may be because he actually felt he was ready.