Criticism

[quote="Monte" post=407969][quote="Ray Morgan" post=407965]For me, the turning point in St. John's history was Pittsburgh. Although there were signs of stress on the program, that set St. John's basketball back a lot of years. Lavin had had 1 great recruiting class that mostly fell apart before the season started. After that, he brought in 2 good players with too much baggage. Mullin brought in Ponds and a bunch of Matt's transfers, none of whom became stars. Fran was our best recruiter in the last 25 years.

CMA has a great staff and works hard. He is not yet hitting recruiting home runs, and may never be able to. The issue for me is getting to the root of the recruiting problems, and stop blaming the coaches. The administration should be looking at the issues that affect a coach's ability to recruit. I would start with CA. Upgrading an arena that is a glorified high school gym is one place to start. SJU can't buy players, or even rent them. That puts the program at a disadvantage. So there has to be a change in the status quo to make St. John''s a more attractive option for 4 star high school seniors. Many kids do want to win and dance in March. We are stuck in a Catch- 22 of needing to win to attract players, and needing players good enough to win. A difficult position to be in.[/quote]

CMA took over a troubled Arkansas program and immediately starting bringing in multiple top 100 players. He immediately showed incremental progress on the court and by year 4 had the Hogs dancing. If that kind of progress occurs here, I think most of our fan base will be satisfied. I know I will. But it all starts with the talent.[/quote]

This is the type of post that frankly irks me; we are not Arkansas and no two situations are the same. Why did Shaka Smart never win less than 26 games in 6 years at VCU and peak at 20 and 21 games once each in his first 5 years in Texas; very simple, no two situations are the same.
 
[quote="Sherman, Sheridan & Grant" post=407989][quote="Logen" post=407945]I certainly do my share of criticizing but at this point in CMA’s tenure I try to stick to game comments, emphasis on try to. But the criticism of his recruiting to date is just beyond my understanding. He inherited a dumpster of a program from Mullin, who inherited a dumpster of a program from Lavin, who inherited as it turns out a built for one year success program from Roberts, maybe only because of the need for Dunlap to take a lead role. Behind that was a coach who made arrogance an art form and one with one foot out the door and the other on his zipper. Behind that was Louie’s successor, who was not up to the job.
So six failed coaches, some scandal mixed in and decades of mediocrity, and that is being kind. Putting the commuter school aspect and facilities aside, what on earth did people expect; that after one season of play and two recruiting cycles blue chip players were going to be knocking down the doors to come here? That with a culture of many players more concerned with impending pro careers than winning in college that SJU at this point in time would be the place to make that happen?
I am not sold on CMA’s style of play or in game coaching to date but I am sold on the man. IMO, he is just what SJU needed, bringing stability, professionalism and a history of success to a program that desperately needed all three. I understand success is subjective and will change from fan to fan but compared to what we have gone through since Louie retired CMA is Red Auerbach.
As for recruiting, we shall see, I have long held that SJU is not a realistic destination for the blue chip, one and done player and I still believe that. So my point is, and I said this with every coach we have hired, let it play out; let’s see where the program is two / three years from now. Certainly, not a new suggestion by any means. And advice frankly, I need to follow myself.[/quote]

Thank you very much Logan. From what I recall you tend to be on the critical side and I tend to be on the positive or give it time to play side .
I appreciate your post though and your acknowledgment of what CMA inherited. For the better part of 25-30 years St. John’s has been mediocre to poor! Even my fellow west point Alum Mike K took the better part of 3 to 4 years to turn Duke around
And many Duke people - seeking instant gratification - wanted to fire him after one or two years.
Mike Anderson has been on the job about 20 months Mike Craig has been on the job about 30 months.
Anything in life worthwhile raising a kid, creating a career, developing a skill takes a lot more than 20 months especially when you’re starting from ground zero.
All the best
Go St. John’s and go Army!
Blessings for the holidays no matter your preference or creed.[/quote]

Not sure I would agree that I tend to be critical; an a$$hole is probably more accurate.
 
[quote="Monte" post=408008][quote="fuchsia" post=408005][quote="Monte" post=408004][quote="Paultzman" post=408003]Years of frustration and mediocrity breeds impatience, griping and impulsivity. We should get paid to hang on with our Johnnies. :) Thankfully it is a diversion.[/quote]

If I didn't have this site and you guys to vent to and commiserate with , I'm sure I'd have been institutionalized by now. Probably multiple times, like during every coaching search.[/quote]

Maybe Panther and I could unretire to assist your treatment team.[/quote]

Thanks for offer. Panther has tried. I think he'll tell you, I'm probably beyond help ;)[/quote]

Welcome to the club!
 
[quote="Monte" post=408015][quote="Logen" post=408013][quote="Monte" post=407954][quote="Logen" post=407945]I certainly do my share of criticizing but at this point in CMA’s tenure I try to stick to game comments, emphasis on try to. But the criticism of his recruiting to date is just beyond my understanding. He inherited a dumpster of a program from Mullin, who inherited a dumpster of a program from Lavin, who inherited as it turns out a built for one year success program from Roberts, maybe only because of the need for Dunlap to take a lead role. Behind that was a coach who made arrogance an art form and one with one foot out the door and the other on his zipper. Behind that was Louie’s successor, who was not up to the job.
So six failed coaches, some scandal mixed in and decades of mediocrity, and that is being kind. Putting the commuter school aspect and facilities aside, what on earth did people expect; that after one season of play and two recruiting cycles blue chip players were going to be knocking down the doors to come here? That with a culture of many players more concerned with impending pro careers than winning in college that SJU at this point in time would be the place to make that happen?
I am not sold on CMA’s style of play or in game coaching to date but I am sold on the man. IMO, he is just what SJU needed, bringing stability, professionalism and a history of success to a program that desperately needed all three. I understand success is subjective and will change from fan to fan but compared to what we have gone through since Louie retired CMA is Red Auerbach.
As for recruiting, we shall see, I have long held that SJU is not a realistic destination for the blue chip, one and done player and I still believe that. So my point is, and I said this with every coach we have hired, let it play out; let’s see where the program is two / three years from now. Certainly, not a new suggestion by any means. And advice frankly, I need to follow myself.[/quote]

Fair post Logen. Just a few thing I'd like to point out especially as it relates to critiquing recruiting:
1. Those 6 previous coached did not have trouble recruiting here, and did so right out of the gate. Even the 3 coaches who had never coached before.
2. Those 6 coaches also did not have trouble bringing in mostly quality kids. Many of whom stayed for 4 years.
3. While it's still early in CMA's tenure, we are now looking at his 4th recruiting cycle. I think that's a fair amount of time to question the level of kids being targeted.
4. Other then any coach's first recruiting class, criticism of recruiting in open game and an ongoing thing.
5. No one is saying that we have to recruit at the level of the Duke's and Kentucky's of the world, but we are going to have to recruit at the level of the PC's and SH's of the world, and that just hasn't happen yet.

This isn't an either/or situation. We can be supportive of of CMA , and still question whether or not our recruiting is good enough, use of TO's, substitution patterns, etc. Like Otis, I remain "cautiously optimistic". That's the best you're gonna get from me until I see the results on the court over a period of time.[/quote]

I would disagree with your recruiting premise for the previous coaches. If you go by rating stars, fine, but I don’t, I look at the product on the court. And success on the court has been fleeting and unsustained since Louie retired, so no, I don’t consider any of the 6 good recruiters. And I think considering this a 4th recruiting cycle for CMA to be disingenuous and self serving at best based on the time of his hire. Having said that, feel free to criticize, but I would like you offer reasons why the level of recruit you want to judge CMA on so early in his tenure should realistically consider SJU. I can’t find many and offered that in my post.[/quote]

You lost me at "I don't consider any of the 6 good recruiters".[/quote]

I consider a good recruiter one who builds and sustains a program. I save one hit wonders for music and one night stands for memories of time before AIDS.
 
[quote="Logen" post=408016][quote="Monte" post=407969][quote="Ray Morgan" post=407965]For me, the turning point in St. John's history was Pittsburgh. Although there were signs of stress on the program, that set St. John's basketball back a lot of years. Lavin had had 1 great recruiting class that mostly fell apart before the season started. After that, he brought in 2 good players with too much baggage. Mullin brought in Ponds and a bunch of Matt's transfers, none of whom became stars. Fran was our best recruiter in the last 25 years.

CMA has a great staff and works hard. He is not yet hitting recruiting home runs, and may never be able to. The issue for me is getting to the root of the recruiting problems, and stop blaming the coaches. The administration should be looking at the issues that affect a coach's ability to recruit. I would start with CA. Upgrading an arena that is a glorified high school gym is one place to start. SJU can't buy players, or even rent them. That puts the program at a disadvantage. So there has to be a change in the status quo to make St. John''s a more attractive option for 4 star high school seniors. Many kids do want to win and dance in March. We are stuck in a Catch- 22 of needing to win to attract players, and needing players good enough to win. A difficult position to be in.[/quote]

CMA took over a troubled Arkansas program and immediately starting bringing in multiple top 100 players. He immediately showed incremental progress on the court and by year 4 had the Hogs dancing. If that kind of progress occurs here, I think most of our fan base will be satisfied. I know I will. But it all starts with the talent.[/quote]

This is the type of post that frankly irks me; we are not Arkansas and no two situations are the same. Why did Shaka Smart never win less than 26 games in 6 years at VCU and peak at 20 and 21 games once each in his first 5 years in Texas; very simple, no two situations are the same.[/quote]

You seemed irked a lot more then normal lately.
 
[quote="Monte" post=408022][quote="Logen" post=408016][quote="Monte" post=407969][quote="Ray Morgan" post=407965]For me, the turning point in St. John's history was Pittsburgh. Although there were signs of stress on the program, that set St. John's basketball back a lot of years. Lavin had had 1 great recruiting class that mostly fell apart before the season started. After that, he brought in 2 good players with too much baggage. Mullin brought in Ponds and a bunch of Matt's transfers, none of whom became stars. Fran was our best recruiter in the last 25 years.

CMA has a great staff and works hard. He is not yet hitting recruiting home runs, and may never be able to. The issue for me is getting to the root of the recruiting problems, and stop blaming the coaches. The administration should be looking at the issues that affect a coach's ability to recruit. I would start with CA. Upgrading an arena that is a glorified high school gym is one place to start. SJU can't buy players, or even rent them. That puts the program at a disadvantage. So there has to be a change in the status quo to make St. John''s a more attractive option for 4 star high school seniors. Many kids do want to win and dance in March. We are stuck in a Catch- 22 of needing to win to attract players, and needing players good enough to win. A difficult position to be in.[/quote]

CMA took over a troubled Arkansas program and immediately starting bringing in multiple top 100 players. He immediately showed incremental progress on the court and by year 4 had the Hogs dancing. If that kind of progress occurs here, I think most of our fan base will be satisfied. I know I will. But it all starts with the talent.[/quote]

This is the type of post that frankly irks me; we are not Arkansas and no two situations are the same. Why did Shaka Smart never win less than 26 games in 6 years at VCU and peak at 20 and 21 games once each in his first 5 years in Texas; very simple, no two situations are the same.[/quote]

You seemed irked a lot more then normal lately.[/quote]

I guess you haven’t followed me for very long then, I am pretty much perpetually irked.
 
Monty v Logen in the “Stubborn Bowl” with all proceeds to the Sedee Keita Foundation
 
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[quote="Logen" post=408021][quote="Monte" post=408015][quote="Logen" post=408013][quote="Monte" post=407954][quote="Logen" post=407945]I certainly do my share of criticizing but at this point in CMA’s tenure I try to stick to game comments, emphasis on try to. But the criticism of his recruiting to date is just beyond my understanding. He inherited a dumpster of a program from Mullin, who inherited a dumpster of a program from Lavin, who inherited as it turns out a built for one year success program from Roberts, maybe only because of the need for Dunlap to take a lead role. Behind that was a coach who made arrogance an art form and one with one foot out the door and the other on his zipper. Behind that was Louie’s successor, who was not up to the job.
So six failed coaches, some scandal mixed in and decades of mediocrity, and that is being kind. Putting the commuter school aspect and facilities aside, what on earth did people expect; that after one season of play and two recruiting cycles blue chip players were going to be knocking down the doors to come here? That with a culture of many players more concerned with impending pro careers than winning in college that SJU at this point in time would be the place to make that happen?
I am not sold on CMA’s style of play or in game coaching to date but I am sold on the man. IMO, he is just what SJU needed, bringing stability, professionalism and a history of success to a program that desperately needed all three. I understand success is subjective and will change from fan to fan but compared to what we have gone through since Louie retired CMA is Red Auerbach.
As for recruiting, we shall see, I have long held that SJU is not a realistic destination for the blue chip, one and done player and I still believe that. So my point is, and I said this with every coach we have hired, let it play out; let’s see where the program is two / three years from now. Certainly, not a new suggestion by any means. And advice frankly, I need to follow myself.[/quote]

Fair post Logen. Just a few thing I'd like to point out especially as it relates to critiquing recruiting:
1. Those 6 previous coached did not have trouble recruiting here, and did so right out of the gate. Even the 3 coaches who had never coached before.
2. Those 6 coaches also did not have trouble bringing in mostly quality kids. Many of whom stayed for 4 years.
3. While it's still early in CMA's tenure, we are now looking at his 4th recruiting cycle. I think that's a fair amount of time to question the level of kids being targeted.
4. Other then any coach's first recruiting class, criticism of recruiting in open game and an ongoing thing.
5. No one is saying that we have to recruit at the level of the Duke's and Kentucky's of the world, but we are going to have to recruit at the level of the PC's and SH's of the world, and that just hasn't happen yet.

This isn't an either/or situation. We can be supportive of of CMA , and still question whether or not our recruiting is good enough, use of TO's, substitution patterns, etc. Like Otis, I remain "cautiously optimistic". That's the best you're gonna get from me until I see the results on the court over a period of time.[/quote]

I would disagree with your recruiting premise for the previous coaches. If you go by rating stars, fine, but I don’t, I look at the product on the court. And success on the court has been fleeting and unsustained since Louie retired, so no, I don’t consider any of the 6 good recruiters. And I think considering this a 4th recruiting cycle for CMA to be disingenuous and self serving at best based on the time of his hire. Having said that, feel free to criticize, but I would like you offer reasons why the level of recruit you want to judge CMA on so early in his tenure should realistically consider SJU. I can’t find many and offered that in my post.[/quote]

You lost me at "I don't consider any of the 6 good recruiters".[/quote]

I consider a good recruiter one who builds and sustains a program. I save one hit wonders for music and one night stands for memories of time before AIDS.[/quote]

One can be a good recruiter without being good program builder and a good coach. One cannot be a good program builder and good coach without being a good recruiter. CMA was a good recruiter at his previous stops. I expect he'll do the same here at some point.
 
[quote="Logen" post=408023][quote="Monte" post=408022][quote="Logen" post=408016][quote="Monte" post=407969][quote="Ray Morgan" post=407965]For me, the turning point in St. John's history was Pittsburgh. Although there were signs of stress on the program, that set St. John's basketball back a lot of years. Lavin had had 1 great recruiting class that mostly fell apart before the season started. After that, he brought in 2 good players with too much baggage. Mullin brought in Ponds and a bunch of Matt's transfers, none of whom became stars. Fran was our best recruiter in the last 25 years.

CMA has a great staff and works hard. He is not yet hitting recruiting home runs, and may never be able to. The issue for me is getting to the root of the recruiting problems, and stop blaming the coaches. The administration should be looking at the issues that affect a coach's ability to recruit. I would start with CA. Upgrading an arena that is a glorified high school gym is one place to start. SJU can't buy players, or even rent them. That puts the program at a disadvantage. So there has to be a change in the status quo to make St. John''s a more attractive option for 4 star high school seniors. Many kids do want to win and dance in March. We are stuck in a Catch- 22 of needing to win to attract players, and needing players good enough to win. A difficult position to be in.[/quote]

CMA took over a troubled Arkansas program and immediately starting bringing in multiple top 100 players. He immediately showed incremental progress on the court and by year 4 had the Hogs dancing. If that kind of progress occurs here, I think most of our fan base will be satisfied. I know I will. But it all starts with the talent.[/quote]

This is the type of post that frankly irks me; we are not Arkansas and no two situations are the same. Why did Shaka Smart never win less than 26 games in 6 years at VCU and peak at 20 and 21 games once each in his first 5 years in Texas; very simple, no two situations are the same.[/quote]

You seemed irked a lot more then normal lately.[/quote]

I guess you haven’t followed me for very long then, I am pretty much perpetually irked.[/quote]

As little as I possibly can ;)
 
[quote="Monte" post=408026][quote="Logen" post=408023][quote="Monte" post=408022][quote="Logen" post=408016][quote="Monte" post=407969][quote="Ray Morgan" post=407965]For me, the turning point in St. John's history was Pittsburgh. Although there were signs of stress on the program, that set St. John's basketball back a lot of years. Lavin had had 1 great recruiting class that mostly fell apart before the season started. After that, he brought in 2 good players with too much baggage. Mullin brought in Ponds and a bunch of Matt's transfers, none of whom became stars. Fran was our best recruiter in the last 25 years.

CMA has a great staff and works hard. He is not yet hitting recruiting home runs, and may never be able to. The issue for me is getting to the root of the recruiting problems, and stop blaming the coaches. The administration should be looking at the issues that affect a coach's ability to recruit. I would start with CA. Upgrading an arena that is a glorified high school gym is one place to start. SJU can't buy players, or even rent them. That puts the program at a disadvantage. So there has to be a change in the status quo to make St. John''s a more attractive option for 4 star high school seniors. Many kids do want to win and dance in March. We are stuck in a Catch- 22 of needing to win to attract players, and needing players good enough to win. A difficult position to be in.[/quote]

CMA took over a troubled Arkansas program and immediately starting bringing in multiple top 100 players. He immediately showed incremental progress on the court and by year 4 had the Hogs dancing. If that kind of progress occurs here, I think most of our fan base will be satisfied. I know I will. But it all starts with the talent.[/quote]

This is the type of post that frankly irks me; we are not Arkansas and no two situations are the same. Why did Shaka Smart never win less than 26 games in 6 years at VCU and peak at 20 and 21 games once each in his first 5 years in Texas; very simple, no two situations are the same.[/quote]

You seemed irked a lot more then normal lately.[/quote]

I guess you haven’t followed me for very long then, I am pretty much perpetually irked.[/quote]

As little as I possibly can ;)[/quote]

Damn, so it turns out you are a lot smarter than I gave you credit for!
 
So much frustration, angst and pain, but at least no one, as yet, has called for leaving the Big East and joining the MAAC.
 
[quote="Logen" post=408028][quote="Monte" post=408026][quote="Logen" post=408023][quote="Monte" post=408022][quote="Logen" post=408016][quote="Monte" post=407969][quote="Ray Morgan" post=407965]For me, the turning point in St. John's history was Pittsburgh. Although there were signs of stress on the program, that set St. John's basketball back a lot of years. Lavin had had 1 great recruiting class that mostly fell apart before the season started. After that, he brought in 2 good players with too much baggage. Mullin brought in Ponds and a bunch of Matt's transfers, none of whom became stars. Fran was our best recruiter in the last 25 years.

CMA has a great staff and works hard. He is not yet hitting recruiting home runs, and may never be able to. The issue for me is getting to the root of the recruiting problems, and stop blaming the coaches. The administration should be looking at the issues that affect a coach's ability to recruit. I would start with CA. Upgrading an arena that is a glorified high school gym is one place to start. SJU can't buy players, or even rent them. That puts the program at a disadvantage. So there has to be a change in the status quo to make St. John''s a more attractive option for 4 star high school seniors. Many kids do want to win and dance in March. We are stuck in a Catch- 22 of needing to win to attract players, and needing players good enough to win. A difficult position to be in.[/quote]

CMA took over a troubled Arkansas program and immediately starting bringing in multiple top 100 players. He immediately showed incremental progress on the court and by year 4 had the Hogs dancing. If that kind of progress occurs here, I think most of our fan base will be satisfied. I know I will. But it all starts with the talent.[/quote]

This is the type of post that frankly irks me; we are not Arkansas and no two situations are the same. Why did Shaka Smart never win less than 26 games in 6 years at VCU and peak at 20 and 21 games once each in his first 5 years in Texas; very simple, no two situations are the same.[/quote]

You seemed irked a lot more then normal lately.[/quote]

I guess you haven’t followed me for very long then, I am pretty much perpetually irked.[/quote]

As little as I possibly can ;)[/quote]

Damn, so it turns out you are a lot smarter than I gave you credit for![/quote]

Most people actually think I'm a lot smarter then I am. Alright, think we've hijacked this thread about as far as a thread can be hijacked. To summarize:
-I like the kids who CMA is recruiting
-I don't think we're ever going to be in the top half of the league by only recruiting this level of kid
-I trust CMA will be recruiting a higher level of talent in the future, as he did in the past
-I hope he does it in my lifetime
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=408030]So much frustration, angst and pain, but at least no one, as yet, has called for leaving the Big East and joining the MAAC.[/quote]

It’s early ;)
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=408030]So much frustration, angst and pain, but at least no one, as yet, has called for leaving the Big East and joining the MAAC.[/quote]

Calling Mike Zaun.
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=408030]So much frustration, angst and pain, but at least no one, as yet, has called for leaving the Big East and joining the MAAC.[/quote]

I'm not advocating for us to do that, by any means. However, the Big East has to be wondering what exactly we bring to the table for them.

NYC market? Outside of this message board, and a scattered number of other people, nobody cares about the team. Not many "true fans." Mullin's return upped the interest a bit, and people will jump on the bandwagon as far as attendance if we're even good, but we've never been a TV ratings winner, and since every conference game is on somewhere now, what's the big deal about taking us out, and replacing us with someone else?

MSG for the tournament? Well, from what I understand, the Big East has a long-term, iron-clad contract with the Garden for the tournament, so there's ample time for them to build an identity without us, and they might not need much. While Butler, Creighton, Xavier, and Marquette don't draw great when they play us in New York, their fanbases come out for the Big East Tournament (Marquette, less so then other three). A lot of their fans use it as a week's vacation, so my guess is that would continue without us being a part of it. Throw in strong local fanbases for Providence, UCONN, and Villanova, and they should have no problems drawing crowds to the building.

Facilities? Even if CA sold out every game, we wouldn't be making enough money from it to compete financially. And, we apparently pay a pretty penny to play at MSG, so much so, that we usually take a loss on it. On top of that, it will never be a true homecourt advantage for us, even if our fans fill it. The teams that we're playing against, play there once or twice a year, so it's a special moment for them, and they'll play with that extra zip. On the other hand, we play there 7 or 8 times a year, and I think it loses it's luster for our guys, after awhile. Only natural, IMO. Part of me is still tempted by the thought of playing all of our games at the new UBS Arena (Belmont Park site). It's perfectly located for most of our fan base (not for me actually, but for most, it is), and maybe we can do something like Seton Hall does at the Rock, and curtain off the upper bowl. At lot of people laughed at them for doing that, but it put all of the fans close to the court, and the sound reverberation made the place sound louder then it probably is, but that's still an advantage.

However, if we did that, we'd be laughed at for dumping MSG. But, what if MSG decides they want to go in another direction? There were rumors in recent years (unsubstantiated, and probably not true) that the only reason MSG allows us to stay is because Dolan likes us (that would be consistent with his style of ownership). I'm sure some Garden higher-ups consider us to be an albatross. Paying so many people for such little revenue, can't do them much good.

Ideally, we build a 10,000 seat on campus arena, and use the Garden for anything over that, but it's been mentioned on here before, that space is more of an issue then money would be, for something like that. If that's true, there's really nothing that can overcome that.

The cold, hard truth, is that very little separates our position now, from where Temple football was when the Big East kicked them out (granted, it was the old Big East Conference). In fact, what may be saving us, is the fact that DePaul has been even worse then us, through all of this, and it hasn't even been close. At least they tried though, by building a new arena. Granted, it was probably the worst job of building an arena that was ever planned, but at least they took a major step. It just hasn't worked out for them. We, OTOH, are stuck in neutral, with seemingly no good solutions.

If I'm the Big East, I take a long, hard look at our program, and wonder if we're worth it.
 
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I disagree that we don't have a lot of true fans. When we had that meetup at Local before the Villanova game a few yrs back, there were so many people we had to start turning some away. The bar's manager came up to me, pulled me in the back and said, "So when are you going to do this again?! You're welcome back anytime" with a huge grin on her face. It was an awesome experience. Believe me when I tell you there are TONS of SJ fans out there. I think many are just in hiding until we have something to celebrate. It's expensive to go to games, take the train, get food/beer at MSG, etc. People are very busy. To have a bunch of people actively plan things around SJ games, the program has to make it worth their while. And right now we are a bottom feeder program not even playing at a Big East level. Once the product is decent enough, the people will come. Unfortunately I think the losing is becoming solidified and part of our culture.
 
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For first time since Louie we have a coach that has a system is committed to running it and recruiting for it. That is a good thing. His substitutions and feel for flow of game are lacking. There have been a lot of successful coaches who have had this problem. Once we get a little more talent Anderson can overcome his deficiencies, just a little short on talent now.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=408552]I disagree that we don't have a lot of true fans. When we had that meetup at Local before the Villanova game a few yrs back, there were so many people we had to start turning some away. The bar's manager came up to me, pulled me in the back and said, "So when are you going to do this again?! You're welcome back anytime" with a huge grin on her face. It was an awesome experience. Believe me when I tell you there are TONS of SJ fans out there. I think many are just in hiding until we have something to celebrate. It's expensive to go to games, take the train, get food/beer at MSG, etc. People are very busy. To have a bunch of people actively plan things around SJ games, the program has to make it worth their while. And right now we are a bottom feeder program not even playing at a Big East level. Once the product is decent enough, the people will come. Unfortunately I think the losing is becoming solidified and part of our culture.[/quote]

I've said this before. At this juncture we don't have a ton of SJU fans, but a lot of SJU winning basketball fans. Mullin's last team, which early on was being touted as a potential dark horse Final Four team, drew more fans than any SJU team since 1992. Incredibly we averaged over 16,000 at MSG and over 5,000 at CA. We made the NCAA tourney even as we stumbled to the finish line playing poorly.

Mullin leaves, we hire a rock solid coach, but the fans anticipate a weak team, and stay away in droves. Those who hung around saw the progression of a team that by years end was a tough out for anyone. Our average fan base is large but mostly dormant. Many of our most frequent posters made an economic decision not to buy tickets to watch a losing team, maybe you were one of them.

Just coming out when our teams are tournament type teams is really not supporting a program in need of cash to invest in the type of facilities that will help attract top notch talent. A few days ago, someone posted that SJU has not invested enough in our basketball team. We forget that just a couple of months ago, SJU was listed among 20 schools that could go under as a result of a sustained pandemic since our endowment is extremely low ($69,000) on a per student basis. Yes, a season ticket costs a decent amount, but not so much as compared to Knicks ticket prices. You can get close to the court for a reasonable amount. I gave someone in my family a $500 gift certificate for Woodloch Pines, only to discover later that a weekend there will cost his family a few thousand dollars. I admit I'm out of touch in that regard, but I do think our ticket prices are reasonable for this level of college basketball.
 
I encounter casual SJ fans on a weekly basis...sometimes daily. The common sentiment is, "we used to be really good way back in the day but now we are irrelevant". Hard to argue against that. I would usually say something like, "yeah but we have a chance to be pretty good with some solid players, check them out" trying to sell them a bit. There have been no moments for the last 20 yrs that SJ fans can say, "I remember that amazing season" like a Final Four run, an Elite 8, a Sweet 16, not even an NCAA win or a Big East championship either regular season or in the tourney. It reminds me of the Mets with all their 1986 moments played over and over. We play 1985 over and over. I saw a movie recently from 1985 and it looked like it was forever ago. We can't hold onto 1985 forever as our claim to fame if we want fans to show up. Eventually, we will need to do something in this current generation.
 
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