Cooley versus Anderson

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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=378946]Lavin in a nutshell......

1.) Off the charts interpersonal skills

2.) Strong ability to recruit

3.) Below average coaching acumen

4.) For reasons that are unclear, just stopped working/recruiting[/quote]

They aren't unclear. He got cancer. Had Surgery. Got divorced. Father died.
After running that gauntlet of personal pain and suffering, everyone's perspective on life is going to change.
 
All I know is I clearly remember with Lavin teams I was always very nervous about games and not excited beforehand. We would always start really slow and have to climb back in games it seemed. Our players really did not learn skills. We recruited raw athletes who could win dunk competitions but not make open shots outside of Harrison and occasionally Sampson but even he was pretty raw and clanked plenty with his mid rangers. We could beat anybody but also lose to anybody. If there's anything that gives me hope about CMA outside of his professionalism and no BS attitude, it's the fact that he blew out teams he was supposed to blow out. Many games were over early in the OOC against bad teams as they should be. To be that's a good sign. But my concern continues to be recruiting until proven otherwise.
 
I'll always be grateful to Lavin for making us relevant and getting us on the back page of the Post again. First year had some glorious moments and that first recruiting class brought us lots of excitement even though they didn't all wind up playing for us.
Nice guy who probably wasn't the best fit in NY and had his faults but I can't be too hard on him.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=378951][quote="JohnnyFan" post=378946]Lavin in a nutshell......

1.) Off the charts interpersonal skills

2.) Strong ability to recruit

3.) Below average coaching acumen

4.) For reasons that are unclear, just stopped working/recruiting[/quote]

They aren't unclear. He got cancer. Had Surgery. Got divorced. Father died.
After running that gauntlet of personal pain and suffering, everyone's perspective on life is going to change.[/quote]

When did Lavin get divorced? I must have missed that.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=378920][quote="newsman13" post=378917]

That's why we need to be in a conference we can dominate.[/quote]

Recruiting doesn't stay at Big East level if you drop to MAAC level.

Attendance doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC games.

Cut of conference revenue doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC.

MAAC teams can't afford to play at MSG.[/quote]

We're recruiting at a MAAC level right now. We have exciting players coming in...but realistically they're going to be on the receiving end of numerous beat-downs. It's one reason the most elite players are avoiding us.

Attendance at Big East levels? We're not filling the house at Big East levels. Winning fills houses. We win and Carnesecca Arena will be packed. We can jazz up our OOC games with four or five major teams. Like Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton do, we can win a few of these...

Our of conference revenue? How much is that? Are we expected to live off the teat of all the other teams besides DePaul in the BE?

We're losing money today by turning MSG into a ghost town. Winners like us against elite teams...including rivalries...fill houses. We won't pay the garden any less than we do now...

This team in the Big East is a big joke... As everyone says, look up irrelevance in the dictionary and the St John's logo pops up. It's a shame that Iona...St Peters...and other locals make the big show, while we're trashing past and present coaches year after year after year.
 
Guys - this notion of leaving the Big East for the MAAC or some other mid-major conference comes up every once in a while when we're having a bad season. It's nuts.

We're not leaving the Big East for the MAAC - and we shouldn't

The Big East isn't kicking us out - and it shouldn't

Let's not get carried away. we're in a rebuild AGAIN, and that stinks. We are all prone to lose patience. But I actually think we have a coach who will actually rebuild the right way.
 
[quote="newsman13" post=378984][quote="L J S A" post=378920][quote="newsman13" post=378917]

That's why we need to be in a conference we can dominate.[/quote]

Recruiting doesn't stay at Big East level if you drop to MAAC level.

Attendance doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC games.

Cut of conference revenue doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC.

MAAC teams can't afford to play at MSG.[/quote]

We're recruiting at a MAAC level right now. We have exciting players coming in...but realistically they're going to be on the receiving end of numerous beat-downs. It's one reason the most elite players are avoiding us.

Attendance at Big East levels? We're not filling the house at Big East levels. Winning fills houses. We win and Carnesecca Arena will be packed. We can jazz up our OOC games with four or five major teams. Like Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton do, we can win a few of these...

Our of conference revenue? How much is that? Are we expected to live off the teat of all the other teams besides DePaul in the BE?

We're losing money today by turning MSG into a ghost town. Winners like us against elite teams...including rivalries...fill houses. We won't pay the garden any less than we do now...

This team in the Big East is a big joke... As everyone says, look up irrelevance in the dictionary and the St John's logo pops up. It's a shame that Iona...St Peters...and other locals make the big show, while we're trashing past and present coaches year after year after year.[/quote]

To me it sounds like you should find another team to root for. Based on your comments a mid-major team. SJ is NOT going to leave the BE, nor should it!
 
[quote="newsman13" post=378984][quote="L J S A" post=378920][quote="newsman13" post=378917]

That's why we need to be in a conference we can dominate.[/quote]

Recruiting doesn't stay at Big East level if you drop to MAAC level.

Attendance doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC games.

Cut of conference revenue doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC.

MAAC teams can't afford to play at MSG.[/quote]

We're recruiting at a MAAC level right now. We have exciting players coming in...but realistically they're going to be on the receiving end of numerous beat-downs. It's one reason the most elite players are avoiding us.

Attendance at Big East levels? We're not filling the house at Big East levels. Winning fills houses. We win and Carnesecca Arena will be packed. We can jazz up our OOC games with four or five major teams. Like Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton do, we can win a few of these...

Our of conference revenue? How much is that? Are we expected to live off the teat of all the other teams besides DePaul in the BE?

We're losing money today by turning MSG into a ghost town. Winners like us against elite teams...including rivalries...fill houses. We won't pay the garden any less than we do now...

This team in the Big East is a big joke... As everyone says, look up irrelevance in the dictionary and the St John's logo pops up. It's a shame that Iona...St Peters...and other locals make the big show, while we're trashing past and present coaches year after year after year.[/quote]

This reads like someone trying to flame the board. We aren't leaving the Big East, and no team has ever gotten booted. Your post serves no purpose.
 
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We are not going to get kicked out of the BE. Why would they kick us out somebody has to finish last or second to last. Seriously though, we are a charter BE member and still reside in top 10 in all time wins in college basketball. Better the NBA should kick the Knicks out so at least we would get rid of Dolan and we could get a new franchise and I don't know maybe name them the Bockers.
 
[quote="Knight" post=378978][quote="SJUFAN2" post=378951][quote="JohnnyFan" post=378946]Lavin in a nutshell......

1.) Off the charts interpersonal skills

2.) Strong ability to recruit

3.) Below average coaching acumen

4.) For reasons that are unclear, just stopped working/recruiting[/quote]

They aren't unclear. He got cancer. Had Surgery. Got divorced. Father died.
After running that gauntlet of personal pain and suffering, everyone's perspective on life is going to change.[/quote]

When did Lavin get divorced? I must have missed that.[/quote]

It's been a while, and I haven't kept up on his status since he left but I was under the impression from other sources that they were splitting up when he was winding down his time here.

If that's not the case, then I apologize for putting misinformation out there. I should have checked that out more thoroughly before I posted it.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=379003][quote="newsman13" post=378984][quote="L J S A" post=378920][quote="newsman13" post=378917]

That's why we need to be in a conference we can dominate.[/quote]

Recruiting doesn't stay at Big East level if you drop to MAAC level.

Attendance doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC games.

Cut of conference revenue doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC.

MAAC teams can't afford to play at MSG.[/quote]

We're recruiting at a MAAC level right now. We have exciting players coming in...but realistically they're going to be on the receiving end of numerous beat-downs. It's one reason the most elite players are avoiding us.

Attendance at Big East levels? We're not filling the house at Big East levels. Winning fills houses. We win and Carnesecca Arena will be packed. We can jazz up our OOC games with four or five major teams. Like Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton do, we can win a few of these...

Our of conference revenue? How much is that? Are we expected to live off the teat of all the other teams besides DePaul in the BE?

We're losing money today by turning MSG into a ghost town. Winners like us against elite teams...including rivalries...fill houses. We won't pay the garden any less than we do now...

This team in the Big East is a big joke... As everyone says, look up irrelevance in the dictionary and the St John's logo pops up. It's a shame that Iona...St Peters...and other locals make the big show, while we're trashing past and present coaches year after year after year.[/quote]

This reads like someone trying to flame the board. We aren't leaving the Big East, and no team has ever gotten booted. Your post serves no purpose.[/quote] If Im not mistaken Temple got booted from the BE in FB. That said, we have MSG, NYC and tradition and are not getting booted.
 
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[quote="ron "
To me it sounds like you should find another team to root for. Based on your comments a mid-major team. SJ is NOT going to leave the BE, nor should it![/quote]

Other than the coach and an occasional foray into MSG...WE ARE mid major. I've been rooting for this team for almost 60 years now. I'm just posting that we need to find a way to win. That ship of running with the blue bloods has long since sailed. Let's win!!
 
[quote="newsman13" post=378984][quote="L J S A" post=378920][quote="newsman13" post=378917]

That's why we need to be in a conference we can dominate.[/quote]

Recruiting doesn't stay at Big East level if you drop to MAAC level.

Attendance doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC games.

Cut of conference revenue doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC.

MAAC teams can't afford to play at MSG.[/quote]

We're recruiting at a MAAC level right now. We have exciting players coming in...but realistically they're going to be on the receiving end of numerous beat-downs. It's one reason the most elite players are avoiding us.

Attendance at Big East levels? We're not filling the house at Big East levels. Winning fills houses. We win and Carnesecca Arena will be packed. We can jazz up our OOC games with four or five major teams. Like Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton do, we can win a few of these...

Our of conference revenue? How much is that? Are we expected to live off the teat of all the other teams besides DePaul in the BE?

We're losing money today by turning MSG into a ghost town. Winners like us against elite teams...including rivalries...fill houses. We won't pay the garden any less than we do now...

This team in the Big East is a big joke... As everyone says, look up irrelevance in the dictionary and the St John's logo pops up. It's a shame that Iona...St Peters...and other locals make the big show, while we're trashing past and present coaches year after year after year.[/quote]

I don't even know where to start...Couple of quick points:

1) We aren't recruiting at a MAAC level right now, but even if we were and those were the absolute best caliber players we could land...They are coming here now to get a BETTER opportunity than the MAAC. If we dropped down to that conference, its folly to suggest that we'd be as attractive to those recruits as we are now. We'd assuredly have to lower the bar to start recruiting DII talent that would want to play in the MAAC.

2) Our attendance numbers will always suck so long as we play most of our games at CA.

3) Big East TV revenue is roughly $4.2M a year per team, with that number supposedly going up to $5.5-6m when Uconn is added for next season. Conversely, the MAAC doesn't seem to have a national hoops contract. Iona, which is who we'd become if your wet dream became reality, had $1.6m in all revenues last year from their men's hoops team. Good luck maintaining our facilities, and recruiting at their current levels, when you cut our hoops revenue by 80%. Unless you want to cut a check to make up the difference, moving to the MAAC would be a death sentence for this program.

4) If we went to the MAAC we wouldn't be playing in the Garden. With an 80% reduction in revenue we wouldn't be able to take a loss to play there just to retain that relationship while we get our house in order.


So to recap, your plan is to drop to the MAAC in order to beat up on lesser opponents with the level of players we have now. This will result in our getting an automatic bid as a 12-16 seed and will lead to our getting bounced in the 1st round every year.
You like that plan so much you are willing give up $5-6m in TV revenue every year, stop playing at MSG (since we won't be able to afford it any longer) and roll the dice that we'd be able to maintain our current level of recruiting despite losing 80% of the programs revenues so we can win all the time... which will then lead to top 100 players to wanting to come here by the bus load and make us an elite program.

Brilliant.
 
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[quote="SJUFAN2" post=379018][quote="newsman13" post=378984][quote="L J S A" post=378920][quote="newsman13" post=378917]

That's why we need to be in a conference we can dominate.[/quote]

Recruiting doesn't stay at Big East level if you drop to MAAC level.

Attendance doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC games.

Cut of conference revenue doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC.

MAAC teams can't afford to play at MSG.[/quote]

We're recruiting at a MAAC level right now. We have exciting players coming in...but realistically they're going to be on the receiving end of numerous beat-downs. It's one reason the most elite players are avoiding us.

Attendance at Big East levels? We're not filling the house at Big East levels. Winning fills houses. We win and Carnesecca Arena will be packed. We can jazz up our OOC games with four or five major teams. Like Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton do, we can win a few of these...

Our of conference revenue? How much is that? Are we expected to live off the teat of all the other teams besides DePaul in the BE?

We're losing money today by turning MSG into a ghost town. Winners like us against elite teams...including rivalries...fill houses. We won't pay the garden any less than we do now...

This team in the Big East is a big joke... As everyone says, look up irrelevance in the dictionary and the St John's logo pops up. It's a shame that Iona...St Peters...and other locals make the big show, while we're trashing past and present coaches year after year after year.[/quote]

I don't even know where to start...Couple of quick points:

1) We aren't recruiting at a MAAC level right now, but even if we were and those were the absolute best caliber players we could land...They are coming here now to get a BETTER opportunity than the MAAC. If we dropped down to that conference, its folly to suggest that we'd be as attractive to those recruits as we are now. We'd assuredly have to lower the bar to start recruiting DII talent that would want to play in the MAAC.

2) Our attendance numbers will always suck so long as we play most of our games at CA.

3) Big East TV revenue is roughly $4.2M a year per team, with that number supposedly going up to $5.5-6m when Uconn is added for next season. Conversely, the MAAC doesn't seem to have a national hoops contract. Iona, which is who we'd become if your wet dream became reality, had $1.6m in all revenues last year from their men's hoops team. Good luck maintaining our facilities, and recruiting at their current levels, when you cut our hoops revenue by 80%. Unless you want to cut a check to make up the difference, moving to the MAAC would be a death sentence for this program.

4) If we went to the MAAC we wouldn't be playing in the Garden. With an 80% reduction in revenue we wouldn't be able to take a loss to play there just to retain that relationship while we get our house in order.


So to recap, your plan is to drop to the MAAC in order to beat up on lesser opponents with the level of players we have now. This will result in our getting an automatic bid as a 12-16 seed and will lead to our getting bounced in the 1st round every year.
You like that plan so much you are willing give up $5-6m in TV revenue every year, stop playing at MSG (since we won't be able to afford it any longer) and roll the dice that we'd be able to maintain our current level of recruiting despite losing 80% of the programs revenues so we can win all the time... which will then lead to top 100 players to wanting to come here by the bus load and make us an elite program.

Brilliant.[/quote]

I've pretty much said something similar to him about a month ago. But he continues to push his lack of foresight agenda.

If he's trolling, it's a poor troll job and ain't even funny. If he's serious (which I kinda believe that's the case), then.... never mind.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=379018][quote="newsman13" post=378984][quote="L J S A" post=378920][quote="newsman13" post=378917]

That's why we need to be in a conference we can dominate.[/quote]

Recruiting doesn't stay at Big East level if you drop to MAAC level.

Attendance doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC games.

Cut of conference revenue doesn't stay at Big East levels for MAAC.

MAAC teams can't afford to play at MSG.[/quote]

We're recruiting at a MAAC level right now. We have exciting players coming in...but realistically they're going to be on the receiving end of numerous beat-downs. It's one reason the most elite players are avoiding us.

Attendance at Big East levels? We're not filling the house at Big East levels. Winning fills houses. We win and Carnesecca Arena will be packed. We can jazz up our OOC games with four or five major teams. Like Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton do, we can win a few of these...

Our of conference revenue? How much is that? Are we expected to live off the teat of all the other teams besides DePaul in the BE?

We're losing money today by turning MSG into a ghost town. Winners like us against elite teams...including rivalries...fill houses. We won't pay the garden any less than we do now...

This team in the Big East is a big joke... As everyone says, look up irrelevance in the dictionary and the St John's logo pops up. It's a shame that Iona...St Peters...and other locals make the big show, while we're trashing past and present coaches year after year after year.[/quote]

I don't even know where to start...Couple of quick points:

1) We aren't recruiting at a MAAC level right now, but even if we were and those were the absolute best caliber players we could land...They are coming here now to get a BETTER opportunity than the MAAC. If we dropped down to that conference, its folly to suggest that we'd be as attractive to those recruits as we are now. We'd assuredly have to lower the bar to start recruiting DII talent that would want to play in the MAAC.

2) Our attendance numbers will always suck so long as we play most of our games at CA.

3) Big East TV revenue is roughly $4.2M a year per team, with that number supposedly going up to $5.5-6m when Uconn is added for next season. Conversely, the MAAC doesn't seem to have a national hoops contract. Iona, which is who we'd become if your wet dream became reality, had $1.6m in all revenues last year from their men's hoops team. Good luck maintaining our facilities, and recruiting at their current levels, when you cut our hoops revenue by 80%. Unless you want to cut a check to make up the difference, moving to the MAAC would be a death sentence for this program.

4) If we went to the MAAC we wouldn't be playing in the Garden. With an 80% reduction in revenue we wouldn't be able to take a loss to play there just to retain that relationship while we get our house in order.


So to recap, your plan is to drop to the MAAC in order to beat up on lesser opponents with the level of players we have now. This will result in our getting an automatic bid as a 12-16 seed and will lead to our getting bounced in the 1st round every year.
You like that plan so much you are willing give up $5-6m in TV revenue every year, stop playing at MSG (since we won't be able to afford it any longer) and roll the dice that we'd be able to maintain our current level of recruiting despite losing 80% of the programs revenues so we can win all the time... which will then lead to top 100 players to wanting to come here by the bus load and make us an elite program.

Brilliant.[/quote]

2) we had out highest attendance in 27 years last season. We averaged over 16,000 at MSG and I believe over 5,000 at CA.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=379013]
It's been a while, and I haven't kept up on his status since he left but I was under the impression from other sources that they were splitting up when he was winding down his time here.

If that's not the case, then I apologize for putting misinformation out there. I should have checked that out more thoroughly before I posted it.[/quote]

You aren't wrong.

It's not like he was going to come out in the press and say his marriage fell apart, which is why posters may not have heard the news.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=378951][quote="JohnnyFan" post=378946]Lavin in a nutshell......

1.) Off the charts interpersonal skills

2.) Strong ability to recruit

3.) Below average coaching acumen

4.) For reasons that are unclear, just stopped working/recruiting[/quote]

They aren't unclear. He got cancer. Had Surgery. Got divorced. Father died.
After running that gauntlet of personal pain and suffering, everyone's perspective on life is going to change.[/quote]

BS, funny he and Mullin had reasons not to work but both had no problem cashing the paychecks. And your theory would have much more credence and both of them more credibility if either had truly walked away citing personal reasons creating an inability to do the job they were being paid very well to do. We all have tragedies and tough times in our lives.
 
[quote="Logen" post=379105][quote="SJUFAN2" post=378951][quote="JohnnyFan" post=378946]Lavin in a nutshell......

1.) Off the charts interpersonal skills

2.) Strong ability to recruit

3.) Below average coaching acumen

4.) For reasons that are unclear, just stopped working/recruiting[/quote]

They aren't unclear. He got cancer. Had Surgery. Got divorced. Father died.
After running that gauntlet of personal pain and suffering, everyone's perspective on life is going to change.[/quote]

BS, funny he and Mullin had reasons not to work but both had no problem cashing the paychecks. And your theory would have much more credence and both of them more credibility if either had truly walked away citing personal reasons creating an inability to do the job they were being paid very well to do. We all have tragedies and tough times in our lives.[/quote]

I don’t disagree here. I will just say though, that Lavin had quite good results over his tenure despite not being on his A-game due to all these personal issues. He didn’t need to step away because he was bombing. I don’t think he just stopped working nor refused to recruit, but certainly was not the same guy as when he entered the program. His personal issues definitely took a visible toll. It was though, the right time to move on from him because he wasn’t in the right place to keep running this ship. Mullin was a totally different story all together. Poor choice as a coach and was never invested in doing the things a D1 coach has to do.
 
I think each profile here should have an area on their account page with a scorecard of all the recent SJU coaches and whether they were fans or not. Maybe an area with a date section where it shows at what point in their tenure they went from Yes to No. Would make things a lot easier keeping up with.
 
[quote="Logen" post=379105][quote="SJUFAN2" post=378951][quote="JohnnyFan" post=378946]Lavin in a nutshell......

1.) Off the charts interpersonal skills

2.) Strong ability to recruit

3.) Below average coaching acumen

4.) For reasons that are unclear, just stopped working/recruiting[/quote]

They aren't unclear. He got cancer. Had Surgery. Got divorced. Father died.
After running that gauntlet of personal pain and suffering, everyone's perspective on life is going to change.[/quote]

BS, funny he and Mullin had reasons not to work but both had no problem cashing the paychecks. And your theory would have much more credence and both of them more credibility if either had truly walked away citing personal reasons creating an inability to do the job they were being paid very well to do. We all have tragedies and tough times in our lives.[/quote]

Yes, we all have tragedies. And we all deal with them in different ways but If any of us went through prostate cancer, surgery, several months away from work recovering, marital problems, and the loss of a father over the same year or two it's going its going to have an impact on our performance at work. Perhaps you wouldn't. But most everyone else is going to have that stuff impact their work performance.

If you want to say he was making too much money to let that happen, whatever. The guy is a human being. Chances are he's going to do what most human beings would do, regardless of the size of his paycheck.

You certainly don't have to cut him slack if you don't want to, but that doesn't change the fact that he went through a shitload of major personal trauma/tragedy in a short period of time. Nor does it change the fact that things like that affect most everyone's work performance.
 
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