I can't believe people already are talking about CMA leaving or trying to find someone else. Let's not forget, it's not like people were jumping to hire him. But with that said, I think he has done a great job of creating a culture and getting his players to play hard. I would challenge anyone in their first year on a job as a leader to come in change the culture and become winner with limited talent. How quickly we forget our last TWO coaches who did not seem to have a offensive or defensive system, and a recruiting plan that revolved around signing "shinny" toys that did not mesh well. I think we all need to wait until CMA has his own players and then talk about it in three years. People are so quick to want to see results, instead of giving it time and seeing the process play out.
Coach Anderson
- Thread starter paultzman
- Start date
[quote="R Dry" post=377997]I can't believe people already are talking about CMA leaving or trying to find someone else. Let's not forget, it's not like people were jumping to hire him. But with that said, I think he has done a great job of creating a culture and getting his players to play hard. I would challenge anyone in their first year on a job as a leader to come in change the culture and become winner with limited talent. How quickly we forget our last TWO coaches who did not seem to have a offensive or defensive system, and a recruiting plan that revolved around signing "shinny" toys that did not mesh well. I think we all need to wait until CMA has his own players and then talk about it in three years. People are so quick to want to see results, instead of giving it time and seeing the process play out.[/quote]
So, divide this board into different piles. Here is my view and certainly others may differ greatly.
As I have stated before, one group makes up their mind before the season what we are and regardless of the games, stick to that position, damn what the games reveal. Their mantra, by and large, we have no talent and so we should be losing regardless of how we lose. So everything will be fine because Cole or Alexander or whoever will be able to assume the ‘closer/hero” role when we abandon the game we played for the first 37 minutes.
A second is a group satisfied, at least for now, with what we are because we play hard, important change MA has instilled, no question, but IMO pretty low bar.
A third group is where I would put myself, posters looking at game performance and offering thoughts and opinions as we see it. Speaking for myself, that DOES NOT make me right, but any discussions regarding basketball are pretty much squashed by the “no talent” or “we play hard” groups. There is a fair amount of criticism from his earlier stops of Anderson as a coach, some of which I am seeing here. Does that mean I want him replaced, hell no. Does that mean I am sorry he was hired, hell no. He has done an overall fantastic job. Part of my “up on a pedestal” posting is directed at the posters who have stayed married to the “no talent” nonsense when it is obvious to me that our talent is plenty good enough to get leads playing one way but then seemingly means we have to play completely differently in the end game. But to summarize here, IMO Anderson was a great hire, still think that but that doesn’t mean I feel he is perfect or beyond criticism.
The fourth group are ones who think Anderson should go and I have already wasted too much energy just typing this much about those knuckleheads and their agendas.
So, divide this board into different piles. Here is my view and certainly others may differ greatly.
As I have stated before, one group makes up their mind before the season what we are and regardless of the games, stick to that position, damn what the games reveal. Their mantra, by and large, we have no talent and so we should be losing regardless of how we lose. So everything will be fine because Cole or Alexander or whoever will be able to assume the ‘closer/hero” role when we abandon the game we played for the first 37 minutes.
A second is a group satisfied, at least for now, with what we are because we play hard, important change MA has instilled, no question, but IMO pretty low bar.
A third group is where I would put myself, posters looking at game performance and offering thoughts and opinions as we see it. Speaking for myself, that DOES NOT make me right, but any discussions regarding basketball are pretty much squashed by the “no talent” or “we play hard” groups. There is a fair amount of criticism from his earlier stops of Anderson as a coach, some of which I am seeing here. Does that mean I want him replaced, hell no. Does that mean I am sorry he was hired, hell no. He has done an overall fantastic job. Part of my “up on a pedestal” posting is directed at the posters who have stayed married to the “no talent” nonsense when it is obvious to me that our talent is plenty good enough to get leads playing one way but then seemingly means we have to play completely differently in the end game. But to summarize here, IMO Anderson was a great hire, still think that but that doesn’t mean I feel he is perfect or beyond criticism.
The fourth group are ones who think Anderson should go and I have already wasted too much energy just typing this much about those knuckleheads and their agendas.
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indyredmen97
Member
I was pretty disappointed the other day and didn’t want to come to this site because I didn’t want to read more knee jerk reaction about Coach Anderson. How the coach has gotten to the point of making me disappointed to lose to a team we’d lost to 10 straight previously (with more talent) is a testament to what he’s brought us thus far. I love this guy, and I want to wait a few years (like I did for each of the last 5 coaches) before I fully evaluate his work here, but I think some already know he’s going to excel here, and want to throw cold water now so it helps either their preferred choice or their internet persona.
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[quote="Paultzman" post=378264]Zach B
Was told that St. John's graduate transfer Thomas O'Connell was recently put on scholarship.[/quote]
Good for him, but would have liked to see Justin Cole get it as he's been with the program for 4 years now. Not easy sitting on bench for all of that.
Maybe it helps with academic ratings.
Was told that St. John's graduate transfer Thomas O'Connell was recently put on scholarship.[/quote]
Good for him, but would have liked to see Justin Cole get it as he's been with the program for 4 years now. Not easy sitting on bench for all of that.
Maybe it helps with academic ratings.
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[quote="RedStormNC" post=378268][quote="Paultzman" post=378264]Zach B
Was told that St. John's graduate transfer Thomas O'Connell was recently put on scholarship.[/quote]
Good for him, but would have liked to see Justin Cole get it as he's been with the program for 4 years now. Not easy sitting on bench for all of that.
Maybe it helps with academic ratings.[/quote]
I hope they both get the start when we play Marquette on March 7th. We're not really playing for anything anymore (only a miracle in the Big East Tournament), so it would be nice for the kids to hear their names announced at MSG.
Was told that St. John's graduate transfer Thomas O'Connell was recently put on scholarship.[/quote]
Good for him, but would have liked to see Justin Cole get it as he's been with the program for 4 years now. Not easy sitting on bench for all of that.
Maybe it helps with academic ratings.[/quote]
I hope they both get the start when we play Marquette on March 7th. We're not really playing for anything anymore (only a miracle in the Big East Tournament), so it would be nice for the kids to hear their names announced at MSG.
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JohnnyFever
Active member
To those who are "sure" or "certain" CMA will succeed here, I wonder how you're so confident. In the last 5 seasons up to present, we are 23-62 in the Big East. We are winning 37% of our conference games losing 63% of the time. We have done absolutely nothing in the Big East tournament even though it's our home court. Of course that's not all on CMA...Mullin was coach for most of that time but other than a few random wins against WVU and Zona, I'm not sure what there is to be so optimistic about other than praying Posh, Wusu, Cole all turn into top Big East players but that's asking a ton. We seem to put all our eggs in on defense and I'm just not sure you can win that way here. Many of the teams in our conference have competent half court offenses or better. In today's game you seem to need a consistent half court offense with lots of shooters and at least 1 true big man and really several 6'10+ bigs in addition. I'm not saying CMA won't do well here...I'm still waiting to see more obviously, but just curious what has some fans so certain that he is the one to turn things around. We are so far behind every other program not named DePaul and even they have a new arena and probably better facilities. I talk with so many random people who are not diehards but know SJU and the history. The consensus in the real world with people in the street is that we cannot compete in the current climate and it's not the 80's anymore. It's like we are stuck in the 80's while other programs zoomed into the future. But on this site there seem to many fans who are certain things will be different now. What are you seeing that other fans aren't?
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=378467]To those who are "sure" or "certain" CMA will succeed here, I wonder how you're so confident. In the last 5 seasons up to present, we are 23-62 in the Big East. We are winning 37% of our conference games losing 63% of the time. We have done absolutely nothing in the Big East tournament even though it's our home court. Of course that's not all on CMA...Mullin was coach for most of that time but other than a few random wins against WVU and Zona, I'm not sure what there is to be so optimistic about other than praying Posh, Wusu, Cole all turn into top Big East players but that's asking a ton. We seem to put all our eggs in on defense and I'm just not sure you can win that way here. Many of the teams in our conference have competent half court offenses or better. In today's game you seem to need a consistent half court offense with lots of shooters and at least 1 true big man and really several 6'10+ bigs in addition. I'm not saying CMA won't do well here...I'm still waiting to see more obviously, but just curious what has some fans so certain that he is the one to turn things around. We are so far behind every other program not named DePaul and even they have a new arena and probably better facilities. I talk with so many random people who are not diehards but know SJU and the history. The consensus in the real world with people in the street is that we cannot compete in the current climate and it's not the 80's anymore. It's like we are stuck in the 80's while other programs zoomed into the future. But on this site there seem to many fans who are certain things will be different now. What are you seeing that other fans aren't?[/quote]
Yes, we know, you have your ear to the ground, finger on the pulse etc...don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone savor being on the ledge more than you
Yes, we know, you have your ear to the ground, finger on the pulse etc...don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone savor being on the ledge more than you
[quote="Section3" post=378468][quote="Mike Zaun" post=378467]To those who are "sure" or "certain" CMA will succeed here, I wonder how you're so confident. In the last 5 seasons up to present, we are 23-62 in the Big East. We are winning 37% of our conference games losing 63% of the time. We have done absolutely nothing in the Big East tournament even though it's our home court. Of course that's not all on CMA...Mullin was coach for most of that time but other than a few random wins against WVU and Zona, I'm not sure what there is to be so optimistic about other than praying Posh, Wusu, Cole all turn into top Big East players but that's asking a ton. We seem to put all our eggs in on defense and I'm just not sure you can win that way here. Many of the teams in our conference have competent half court offenses or better. In today's game you seem to need a consistent half court offense with lots of shooters and at least 1 true big man and really several 6'10+ bigs in addition. I'm not saying CMA won't do well here...I'm still waiting to see more obviously, but just curious what has some fans so certain that he is the one to turn things around. We are so far behind every other program not named DePaul and even they have a new arena and probably better facilities. I talk with so many random people who are not diehards but know SJU and the history. The consensus in the real world with people in the street is that we cannot compete in the current climate and it's not the 80's anymore. It's like we are stuck in the 80's while other programs zoomed into the future. But on this site there seem to many fans who are certain things will be different now. What are you seeing that other fans aren't?[/quote]
Yes, we know, you have your ear to the ground, finger on the pulse etc...don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone savor being on the ledge more than you[/quote]
Mike
As Archie Bunker said to Edith”Faith...It’s believing in something that no one in their right mind would believe”. We have no choice
Yes, we know, you have your ear to the ground, finger on the pulse etc...don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone savor being on the ledge more than you[/quote]
Mike
As Archie Bunker said to Edith”Faith...It’s believing in something that no one in their right mind would believe”. We have no choice
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=378467]To those who are "sure" or "certain" CMA will succeed here, I wonder how you're so confident. In the last 5 seasons up to present, we are 23-62 in the Big East. We are winning 37% of our conference games losing 63% of the time. We have done absolutely nothing in the Big East tournament even though it's our home court. Of course that's not all on CMA...Mullin was coach for most of that time but other than a few random wins against WVU and Zona, I'm not sure what there is to be so optimistic about other than praying Posh, Wusu, Cole all turn into top Big East players but that's asking a ton. We seem to put all our eggs in on defense and I'm just not sure you can win that way here. Many of the teams in our conference have competent half court offenses or better. In today's game you seem to need a consistent half court offense with lots of shooters and at least 1 true big man and really several 6'10+ bigs in addition. I'm not saying CMA won't do well here...I'm still waiting to see more obviously, but just curious what has some fans so certain that he is the one to turn things around. We are so far behind every other program not named DePaul and even they have a new arena and probably better facilities. I talk with so many random people who are not diehards but know SJU and the history. The consensus in the real world with people in the street is that we cannot compete in the current climate and it's not the 80's anymore. It's like we are stuck in the 80's while other programs zoomed into the future. But on this site there seem to many fans who are certain things will be different now. What are you seeing that other fans aren't?[/quote]
Good to know our last 5 seasons of failure are not on MA. The man will show what he can do regardless of what your silly “real world with people in the street” survey says. I didn’t even realize Huggy Bear was a basketball fan.
Good to know our last 5 seasons of failure are not on MA. The man will show what he can do regardless of what your silly “real world with people in the street” survey says. I didn’t even realize Huggy Bear was a basketball fan.
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=378467]To those who are "sure" or "certain" CMA will succeed here, I wonder how you're so confident. In the last 5 seasons up to present, we are 23-62 in the Big East. We are winning 37% of our conference games losing 63% of the time. We have done absolutely nothing in the Big East tournament even though it's our home court. Of course that's not all on CMA...Mullin was coach for most of that time but other than a few random wins against WVU and Zona, I'm not sure what there is to be so optimistic about other than praying Posh, Wusu, Cole all turn into top Big East players but that's asking a ton. We seem to put all our eggs in on defense and I'm just not sure you can win that way here. Many of the teams in our conference have competent half court offenses or better. In today's game you seem to need a consistent half court offense with lots of shooters and at least 1 true big man and really several 6'10+ bigs in addition. I'm not saying CMA won't do well here...I'm still waiting to see more obviously, but just curious what has some fans so certain that he is the one to turn things around. We are so far behind every other program not named DePaul and even they have a new arena and probably better facilities. I talk with so many random people who are not diehards but know SJU and the history. The consensus in the real world with people in the street is that we cannot compete in the current climate and it's not the 80's anymore. It's like we are stuck in the 80's while other programs zoomed into the future. But on this site there seem to many fans who are certain things will be different now. What are you seeing that other fans aren't?[/quote]
If it makes you feel better, the best I can do is be cautiously optimistic and willing to see if recruiting in current and subsequent two cycles have positive impacts. At the end of three years under MA I suspect we’ll have a better sense of his ability to rebuild this program. Frankly, I have not talked to anyl level headed SJ fans who think it is a lock this regime will get SJ back to a consistently successful level, but hope works for me now.
If it makes you feel better, the best I can do is be cautiously optimistic and willing to see if recruiting in current and subsequent two cycles have positive impacts. At the end of three years under MA I suspect we’ll have a better sense of his ability to rebuild this program. Frankly, I have not talked to anyl level headed SJ fans who think it is a lock this regime will get SJ back to a consistently successful level, but hope works for me now.
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JohnnyFever
Active member
This seems to be the common refrain from those who think we are on our way back to 1985. "How dare you?", "You are not a real fan", "Just wait until next yr", "Just be patient", "You're just negative", "You love being negative". What SJ fan would ever "savor" being in this position? We have sucked for a long time now and don't worry, I'll survive even if we never win another game. I'm just asking for evidence that we are on the right track. The view of average Joes in the streets around the metro area regarding SJ hoops is vastly different than the views of most on this board. Many share my perspective from what I've encountered. Only seems to be radical here honestly.
[quote="Section3" post=378468][quote="Mike Zaun" post=378467]To those who are "sure" or "certain" CMA will succeed here, I wonder how you're so confident. In the last 5 seasons up to present, we are 23-62 in the Big East. We are winning 37% of our conference games losing 63% of the time. We have done absolutely nothing in the Big East tournament even though it's our home court. Of course that's not all on CMA...Mullin was coach for most of that time but other than a few random wins against WVU and Zona, I'm not sure what there is to be so optimistic about other than praying Posh, Wusu, Cole all turn into top Big East players but that's asking a ton. We seem to put all our eggs in on defense and I'm just not sure you can win that way here. Many of the teams in our conference have competent half court offenses or better. In today's game you seem to need a consistent half court offense with lots of shooters and at least 1 true big man and really several 6'10+ bigs in addition. I'm not saying CMA won't do well here...I'm still waiting to see more obviously, but just curious what has some fans so certain that he is the one to turn things around. We are so far behind every other program not named DePaul and even they have a new arena and probably better facilities. I talk with so many random people who are not diehards but know SJU and the history. The consensus in the real world with people in the street is that we cannot compete in the current climate and it's not the 80's anymore. It's like we are stuck in the 80's while other programs zoomed into the future. But on this site there seem to many fans who are certain things will be different now. What are you seeing that other fans aren't?[/quote]
Yes, we know, you have your ear to the ground, finger on the pulse etc...don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone savor being on the ledge more than you[/quote]
A peculiar place to always be (re: "don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone savor being on the ledge more than you "). I'll somewhat piggyback you, Section 3. I don't believe anyone is "certain" or "sure" Anderson will succeed at St. John's. More like several folks feel he has what it takes to succeed and willing to give him a fair opportunity to do so.
Who cares what "people in the street" has to say.... The world is full of sheeple and herd mentality. They'll be the same people racing to get tickets to Carnesecca and MSG once we field a quality team.
Well, at least in your routine attempt to mention recruiting after a loss, it wasn't an exaggeration about Alexander's previous injury. So, there's a change.
Yes, we know, you have your ear to the ground, finger on the pulse etc...don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone savor being on the ledge more than you[/quote]
A peculiar place to always be (re: "don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone savor being on the ledge more than you "). I'll somewhat piggyback you, Section 3. I don't believe anyone is "certain" or "sure" Anderson will succeed at St. John's. More like several folks feel he has what it takes to succeed and willing to give him a fair opportunity to do so.
Who cares what "people in the street" has to say.... The world is full of sheeple and herd mentality. They'll be the same people racing to get tickets to Carnesecca and MSG once we field a quality team.
Well, at least in your routine attempt to mention recruiting after a loss, it wasn't an exaggeration about Alexander's previous injury. So, there's a change.
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=378467]To those who are "sure" or "certain" CMA will succeed here, I wonder how you're so confident. In the last 5 seasons up to present, we are 23-62 in the Big East. We are winning 37% of our conference games losing 63% of the time. We have done absolutely nothing in the Big East tournament even though it's our home court. Of course that's not all on CMA...Mullin was coach for most of that time but other than a few random wins against WVU and Zona, I'm not sure what there is to be so optimistic about other than praying Posh, Wusu, Cole all turn into top Big East players but that's asking a ton. We seem to put all our eggs in on defense and I'm just not sure you can win that way here. Many of the teams in our conference have competent half court offenses or better. In today's game you seem to need a consistent half court offense with lots of shooters and at least 1 true big man and really several 6'10+ bigs in addition. I'm not saying CMA won't do well here...I'm still waiting to see more obviously, but just curious what has some fans so certain that he is the one to turn things around. We are so far behind every other program not named DePaul and even they have a new arena and probably better facilities. I talk with so many random people who are not diehards but know SJU and the history. The consensus in the real world with people in the street is that we cannot compete in the current climate and it's not the 80's anymore. It's like we are stuck in the 80's while other programs zoomed into the future. But on this site there seem to many fans who are certain things will be different now. What are you seeing that other fans aren't?[/quote]
Mike, the reason why I am so confident is because CMA is an accomplished coach who been successful at three other schools and rebuilt programs there. Norm was not an accomplished coach and Mullin had no coaching experience whatsoever. Lavin hadn’t coached in a while when he took over, then he got sick and according to some , spent more time enjoying the NYC lifestyle then attending to his duties. CMA is a bonafide college basketball coach who has done it before in three other places. He’s not the type of guy to take the free road ala Mullin or Lavin and he’s not an inexperienced HC like Norm. The issue is that CMA is a system coach and even the analysts who do our games say that it’s a complex defensive system and takes some time to adjust to and learn. CMA needs two or three recruiting classes of his type of kids who will be here a few years and get immersed in the system. But CMA is the consummate professional and that’s why I think he will get it done here. This is also probably his last shot given his age so I believe he’s extremely determined. I also think that when he has his guys his style will play well in this league because no one else plays remotely like it so teams will have prepare especially for us. We’ve already seen a few times this season how his style was able to create a huge amount of turnovers and He still hasn’t been able to fully implement his system because he doesn’t have enough guys who can play it well. The future is bright as long as he can bring in the type of players he needs. It looks as though all four guys on this staff are hitting the recruiting trail hard so I think they will get it done. Just my opinion.
Mike, the reason why I am so confident is because CMA is an accomplished coach who been successful at three other schools and rebuilt programs there. Norm was not an accomplished coach and Mullin had no coaching experience whatsoever. Lavin hadn’t coached in a while when he took over, then he got sick and according to some , spent more time enjoying the NYC lifestyle then attending to his duties. CMA is a bonafide college basketball coach who has done it before in three other places. He’s not the type of guy to take the free road ala Mullin or Lavin and he’s not an inexperienced HC like Norm. The issue is that CMA is a system coach and even the analysts who do our games say that it’s a complex defensive system and takes some time to adjust to and learn. CMA needs two or three recruiting classes of his type of kids who will be here a few years and get immersed in the system. But CMA is the consummate professional and that’s why I think he will get it done here. This is also probably his last shot given his age so I believe he’s extremely determined. I also think that when he has his guys his style will play well in this league because no one else plays remotely like it so teams will have prepare especially for us. We’ve already seen a few times this season how his style was able to create a huge amount of turnovers and He still hasn’t been able to fully implement his system because he doesn’t have enough guys who can play it well. The future is bright as long as he can bring in the type of players he needs. It looks as though all four guys on this staff are hitting the recruiting trail hard so I think they will get it done. Just my opinion.
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=378472]This seems to be the common refrain from those who think we are on our way back to 1985. "How dare you?", "You are not a real fan", "Just wait until next yr", "Just be patient", "You're just negative", "You love being negative". What SJ fan would ever "savor" being in this position? We have sucked for a long time now and don't worry, I'll survive even if we never win another game. I'm just asking for evidence that we are on the right track. The view of average Joes in the streets around the metro area regarding SJ hoops is vastly different than the views of most on this board. Many share my perspective from what I've encountered. Only seems to be radical here honestly.[/quote]
What “evidence” could there possibly be with a coach who pieced together a roster after being hired when he was, who has been here less than a year. I was critical of coach after the Gtown game but surely regret it, cheap frustration shots and very unfair. You want evidence? How about 17 years of winning at three different programs; pretty damn good, consistent record. You want assurances, go root for the Globetrotters. Short of that, wait and see with the rest of us.
What “evidence” could there possibly be with a coach who pieced together a roster after being hired when he was, who has been here less than a year. I was critical of coach after the Gtown game but surely regret it, cheap frustration shots and very unfair. You want evidence? How about 17 years of winning at three different programs; pretty damn good, consistent record. You want assurances, go root for the Globetrotters. Short of that, wait and see with the rest of us.