I don't know if SJU is interested in Cluess but it would be idiotic if the fact that Cluess transferred from SJU to Hofstra some forty years ago was being held against him. With Cragg in charge , I can't believe that this would have any bearing but under the prior leadership this would not surprise me.
Cluess
- Thread starter dalydoseofhoops
- Start date
Just some fun stats. A tweet by Tyler Smith about Cronin taking the UCLA job:
“Mick Cronin (.681) has a higher career Win% than Steve Lavin, Chris Mack, Matt Painter, Stew Morill, Digger Phelps, John Chaney, Don Haskins, Jim Harrick, Lefty Driesell, Steve Fisher, Bruce Pearl, Pete Carril, Rick Barnes & John Beilein, amongst many other notable #CBB coaches.”
FWIW, Mick Cronin has a college win % of 68.2%. Tim Cluess is higher than all of them at 69.1%. I know Cronin has definitely coached in a tougher league, but there’s something to be said for that type of winning percentage. Having a coach that wins at every level, they tend to continue the trend. I can see Cluess doing a good job here with some real good recruiters.
“Mick Cronin (.681) has a higher career Win% than Steve Lavin, Chris Mack, Matt Painter, Stew Morill, Digger Phelps, John Chaney, Don Haskins, Jim Harrick, Lefty Driesell, Steve Fisher, Bruce Pearl, Pete Carril, Rick Barnes & John Beilein, amongst many other notable #CBB coaches.”
FWIW, Mick Cronin has a college win % of 68.2%. Tim Cluess is higher than all of them at 69.1%. I know Cronin has definitely coached in a tougher league, but there’s something to be said for that type of winning percentage. Having a coach that wins at every level, they tend to continue the trend. I can see Cluess doing a good job here with some real good recruiters.
billthetruth
Well-known member
https://nypost.com/2019/04/10/nyc-area-coaches-st-johns-should-make-run-at-tim-cluess/
Any guesses on who the high-powered AAU Director may be?
Could it be somebody Cragg would love to add to a possible Cluess staff?
Any guesses on who the high-powered AAU Director may be?
Could it be somebody Cragg would love to add to a possible Cluess staff?
Moose
Well-known member
[quote="gman" post=339743]My issue is Cluess relies on hidden gems and the transfer game. I don’t see that working at the BE. He isn’t a great in game coach so even adding a stud recruiter won’t chance where he gets players.[/quote]
This is one thing I hate about the NY media and SJU coaching searches. We get a leader with a lot of attention (Hurley), there is a secondary candidate of some sort (Cluess) the media then goes out and gets all these other local coaches (HS and AAU) to latch onto the secondary candidate. And then if that candidate isn't hired the new coach is already behind the 8 ball. Seems to happen every single time. Did he ask the same exact people the same exact questions about Hurley?
This is one thing I hate about the NY media and SJU coaching searches. We get a leader with a lot of attention (Hurley), there is a secondary candidate of some sort (Cluess) the media then goes out and gets all these other local coaches (HS and AAU) to latch onto the secondary candidate. And then if that candidate isn't hired the new coach is already behind the 8 ball. Seems to happen every single time. Did he ask the same exact people the same exact questions about Hurley?
billthetruth
Well-known member
[quote="Moose" post=339748][quote="gman" post=339743]My issue is Cluess relies on hidden gems and the transfer game. I don’t see that working at the BE. He isn’t a great in game coach so even adding a stud recruiter won’t chance where he gets players.[/quote]
This is one thing I hate about the NY media and SJU coaching searches. We get a leader with a lot of attention (Hurley), there is a secondary candidate of some sort (Cluess) the media then goes out and gets all these other local coaches (HS and AAU) to latch onto the secondary candidate. And then if that candidate isn't hired the new coach is already behind the 8 ball. Seems to happen every single time. Did he ask the same exact people the same exact questions about Hurley?[/quote]
When the Hurley pipe dream is finally put to rest. Hire Cluess and a strong staff and win for next 10 years so we don’t have these articles.
It’s the guys dream job and he will not look to bolt if he is successful.
If Hurley came to St. John’s I would give it 18 months before his name started popping up in ACC coaching changes
This is one thing I hate about the NY media and SJU coaching searches. We get a leader with a lot of attention (Hurley), there is a secondary candidate of some sort (Cluess) the media then goes out and gets all these other local coaches (HS and AAU) to latch onto the secondary candidate. And then if that candidate isn't hired the new coach is already behind the 8 ball. Seems to happen every single time. Did he ask the same exact people the same exact questions about Hurley?[/quote]
When the Hurley pipe dream is finally put to rest. Hire Cluess and a strong staff and win for next 10 years so we don’t have these articles.
It’s the guys dream job and he will not look to bolt if he is successful.
If Hurley came to St. John’s I would give it 18 months before his name started popping up in ACC coaching changes
Moose
Well-known member
[quote="billthetruth" post=339750][quote="Moose" post=339748][quote="gman" post=339743]My issue is Cluess relies on hidden gems and the transfer game. I don’t see that working at the BE. He isn’t a great in game coach so even adding a stud recruiter won’t chance where he gets players.[/quote]
This is one thing I hate about the NY media and SJU coaching searches. We get a leader with a lot of attention (Hurley), there is a secondary candidate of some sort (Cluess) the media then goes out and gets all these other local coaches (HS and AAU) to latch onto the secondary candidate. And then if that candidate isn't hired the new coach is already behind the 8 ball. Seems to happen every single time. Did he ask the same exact people the same exact questions about Hurley?[/quote]
When the Hurley pipe dream is finally put to rest. Hire Cluess and a strong staff and win for next 10 years so we don’t have these articles.
It’s the guys dream job and he will not look to bolt if he is successful.
If Hurley came to St. John’s I would give it 18 months before his name started popping up in ACC coaching changes[/quote]
Hurley isn't a pipe dream.
Hurley isn't taking another ACC job besides Duke
You're right about Cluess in dream job and not bolting. I don't have much against Cluess, I've warmed to him a bit. I think he's probably 3rd choice. I think there is probably a name we haven't heard of yet that is the true backup to Hurley. Which isn't over as much as anxious posters might think. We didn't move on from Chris to go for Hurley and then just settle for Cluess
This is one thing I hate about the NY media and SJU coaching searches. We get a leader with a lot of attention (Hurley), there is a secondary candidate of some sort (Cluess) the media then goes out and gets all these other local coaches (HS and AAU) to latch onto the secondary candidate. And then if that candidate isn't hired the new coach is already behind the 8 ball. Seems to happen every single time. Did he ask the same exact people the same exact questions about Hurley?[/quote]
When the Hurley pipe dream is finally put to rest. Hire Cluess and a strong staff and win for next 10 years so we don’t have these articles.
It’s the guys dream job and he will not look to bolt if he is successful.
If Hurley came to St. John’s I would give it 18 months before his name started popping up in ACC coaching changes[/quote]
Hurley isn't a pipe dream.
Hurley isn't taking another ACC job besides Duke
You're right about Cluess in dream job and not bolting. I don't have much against Cluess, I've warmed to him a bit. I think he's probably 3rd choice. I think there is probably a name we haven't heard of yet that is the true backup to Hurley. Which isn't over as much as anxious posters might think. We didn't move on from Chris to go for Hurley and then just settle for Cluess
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[quote="Moose" post=339752][quote="billthetruth" post=339750][quote="Moose" post=339748][quote="gman" post=339743]My issue is Cluess relies on hidden gems and the transfer game. I don’t see that working at the BE. He isn’t a great in game coach so even adding a stud recruiter won’t chance where he gets players.[/quote]
This is one thing I hate about the NY media and SJU coaching searches. We get a leader with a lot of attention (Hurley), there is a secondary candidate of some sort (Cluess) the media then goes out and gets all these other local coaches (HS and AAU) to latch onto the secondary candidate. And then if that candidate isn't hired the new coach is already behind the 8 ball. Seems to happen every single time. Did he ask the same exact people the same exact questions about Hurley?[/quote]
When the Hurley pipe dream is finally put to rest. Hire Cluess and a strong staff and win for next 10 years so we don’t have these articles.
It’s the guys dream job and he will not look to bolt if he is successful.
If Hurley came to St. John’s I would give it 18 months before his name started popping up in ACC coaching changes[/quote]
Hurley isn't a pipe dream.
Hurley isn't taking another ACC job besides Duke
You're right about Cluess in dream job and not bolting. I don't have much against Cluess, I've warmed to him a bit. I think he's probably 3rd choice. I think there is probably a name we haven't heard of yet that is the true backup to Hurley. Which isn't over as much as anxious posters might think. We didn't move on from Chris to go for Hurley and then just settle for Cluess[/quote]
+1000
This is one thing I hate about the NY media and SJU coaching searches. We get a leader with a lot of attention (Hurley), there is a secondary candidate of some sort (Cluess) the media then goes out and gets all these other local coaches (HS and AAU) to latch onto the secondary candidate. And then if that candidate isn't hired the new coach is already behind the 8 ball. Seems to happen every single time. Did he ask the same exact people the same exact questions about Hurley?[/quote]
When the Hurley pipe dream is finally put to rest. Hire Cluess and a strong staff and win for next 10 years so we don’t have these articles.
It’s the guys dream job and he will not look to bolt if he is successful.
If Hurley came to St. John’s I would give it 18 months before his name started popping up in ACC coaching changes[/quote]
Hurley isn't a pipe dream.
Hurley isn't taking another ACC job besides Duke
You're right about Cluess in dream job and not bolting. I don't have much against Cluess, I've warmed to him a bit. I think he's probably 3rd choice. I think there is probably a name we haven't heard of yet that is the true backup to Hurley. Which isn't over as much as anxious posters might think. We didn't move on from Chris to go for Hurley and then just settle for Cluess[/quote]
+1000
RedStormRising
Well-known member
[quote="billthetruth" post=339750][quote="Moose" post=339748][quote="gman" post=339743]My issue is Cluess relies on hidden gems and the transfer game. I don’t see that working at the BE. He isn’t a great in game coach so even adding a stud recruiter won’t chance where he gets players.[/quote]
This is one thing I hate about the NY media and SJU coaching searches. We get a leader with a lot of attention (Hurley), there is a secondary candidate of some sort (Cluess) the media then goes out and gets all these other local coaches (HS and AAU) to latch onto the secondary candidate. And then if that candidate isn't hired the new coach is already behind the 8 ball. Seems to happen every single time. Did he ask the same exact people the same exact questions about Hurley?[/quote]
When the Hurley pipe dream is finally put to rest. Hire Cluess and a strong staff and win for next 10 years so we don’t have these articles.
It’s the guys dream job and he will not look to bolt if he is successful.
If Hurley came to St. John’s I would give it 18 months before his name started popping up in ACC coaching changes[/quote]
If his name pops up in the ACC in 18 months he is winning big at St John’s. We wouldn’t want that because this board’s collective heads would explode?
This is one thing I hate about the NY media and SJU coaching searches. We get a leader with a lot of attention (Hurley), there is a secondary candidate of some sort (Cluess) the media then goes out and gets all these other local coaches (HS and AAU) to latch onto the secondary candidate. And then if that candidate isn't hired the new coach is already behind the 8 ball. Seems to happen every single time. Did he ask the same exact people the same exact questions about Hurley?[/quote]
When the Hurley pipe dream is finally put to rest. Hire Cluess and a strong staff and win for next 10 years so we don’t have these articles.
It’s the guys dream job and he will not look to bolt if he is successful.
If Hurley came to St. John’s I would give it 18 months before his name started popping up in ACC coaching changes[/quote]
If his name pops up in the ACC in 18 months he is winning big at St John’s. We wouldn’t want that because this board’s collective heads would explode?
Moose wrote: Hurley isn't a pipe dream.
Hurley isn't taking another ACC job besides Duke
You're right about Cluess in dream job and not bolting. I don't have much against Cluess, I've warmed to him a bit. I think he's probably 3rd choice. I think there is probably a name we haven't heard of yet that is the true backup to Hurley. Which isn't over as much as anxious posters might think. We didn't move on from Chris to go for Hurley and then just settle for Cluess
Very nice to read this first thing this morning. While I am fine with hiring Cluess, Hurley is first choice and I was beginning to wonder if whole staff change scenario wasn't as pre-orchestrated as most of us assumed. Having said that, understand the best laid plans can run into hiccups and good to have a couple of solid backup options.
Hurley isn't taking another ACC job besides Duke
You're right about Cluess in dream job and not bolting. I don't have much against Cluess, I've warmed to him a bit. I think he's probably 3rd choice. I think there is probably a name we haven't heard of yet that is the true backup to Hurley. Which isn't over as much as anxious posters might think. We didn't move on from Chris to go for Hurley and then just settle for Cluess
Very nice to read this first thing this morning. While I am fine with hiring Cluess, Hurley is first choice and I was beginning to wonder if whole staff change scenario wasn't as pre-orchestrated as most of us assumed. Having said that, understand the best laid plans can run into hiccups and good to have a couple of solid backup options.
I think Cragg will surprise us as well. He seems real sharp. He’s got big goals and is untainted by the loser mentality that has beaten us down for decades. He’s only known winning, top notch programs the last 30 years. I kinda like Cluess but I too don’t think he will be our coach unless we strike out at several steps.
beast of the east
Active member
No one will care if cluess doesn't get hired, until the honeymoon is over with the new coachp
[quote="gman" post=339743]My issue is Cluess relies on hidden gems and the transfer game. I don’t see that working at the BE. He isn’t a great in game coach so even adding a stud recruiter won’t chance where he gets players.[/quote]
I’m not sure that’s the case. I think he was just trying to get the best talent to Iona and the MAAC which isn’t easy. Easier to take former higher level D1 guys and risks etc. to bring in the better talent. With a couple good recruiters, and at a higher level school things could be different. I still don’t think he’s gonna be the guy that’s hired, but nonetheless a solid choice.
I’m not sure that’s the case. I think he was just trying to get the best talent to Iona and the MAAC which isn’t easy. Easier to take former higher level D1 guys and risks etc. to bring in the better talent. With a couple good recruiters, and at a higher level school things could be different. I still don’t think he’s gonna be the guy that’s hired, but nonetheless a solid choice.
I think he is more likely than not, since Pitino is not the #2 option. Cluess is. If we strike out on Hurley, we probably get Cluess, which I don't have a problem with. My only issue is can he recruit at this level? I think he is a better X and O guy than we've had, has a plan etc.
[quote="MCNPA" post=339761][quote="gman" post=339743]My issue is Cluess relies on hidden gems and the transfer game. I don’t see that working at the BE. He isn’t a great in game coach so even adding a stud recruiter won’t chance where he gets players.[/quote]
I’m not sure that’s the case. I think he was just trying to get the best talent to Iona and the MAAC which isn’t easy. Easier to take former higher level D1 guys and risks etc. to bring in the better talent. With a couple good recruiters, and at a higher level school things could be different. I still don’t think he’s gonna be the guy that’s hired, but nonetheless a solid choice.[/quote]
[quote="MCNPA" post=339761][quote="gman" post=339743]My issue is Cluess relies on hidden gems and the transfer game. I don’t see that working at the BE. He isn’t a great in game coach so even adding a stud recruiter won’t chance where he gets players.[/quote]
I’m not sure that’s the case. I think he was just trying to get the best talent to Iona and the MAAC which isn’t easy. Easier to take former higher level D1 guys and risks etc. to bring in the better talent. With a couple good recruiters, and at a higher level school things could be different. I still don’t think he’s gonna be the guy that’s hired, but nonetheless a solid choice.[/quote]
Let me preface my remarks by stating that I’m not an insider, and I have no inside information. However, looking at this from afar, I feel that there is some “mystery “ candidate out there that is being strongly considered. The AD is doing his job, due diligence. He realizes the importance of this hire and is exploring all possibilities as he should.
If I am correct, and obviously depending upon the final choice, this wouldn’t upset me. Honestly, both Hurley and Cluess, while ok, don’t totally put wind in my sails. I think that both could end up working well here. I would absolutely support who ever they choose. However I want the next coach to check all of the boxes. One that recruits solid kids that are of solid character and solid basketball skills. (No projects). A coach that emphasizes solid defense ( remember that?) along with basic fundamentals. Positioning, rebounding, court spacing and attacking a zone on offense. Player development over their four years here.
I realize that I’m asking for a lot of things. Let’s hope that this next hire comes close.
If I am correct, and obviously depending upon the final choice, this wouldn’t upset me. Honestly, both Hurley and Cluess, while ok, don’t totally put wind in my sails. I think that both could end up working well here. I would absolutely support who ever they choose. However I want the next coach to check all of the boxes. One that recruits solid kids that are of solid character and solid basketball skills. (No projects). A coach that emphasizes solid defense ( remember that?) along with basic fundamentals. Positioning, rebounding, court spacing and attacking a zone on offense. Player development over their four years here.
I realize that I’m asking for a lot of things. Let’s hope that this next hire comes close.
It's not quite apples to apples as this coach had more NCAA tournament success at his small conference school, but Larranaga is a decent comparison for Cluess. Both are winners. Larranaga posted a .625 overall winning % at George Mason with a .676 conference mark. At Iona, Cluess has coached his teams to a .648 overall and .729 conference winning percentage. Larranaga took that Miami job at the age of 62 or so and has gone 175-97 with two Sweet 16 performances. He's made post-season play 6 out of 8 seasons (2 NIT and 4 NCAA). I think we'd all sign up for similar success with Cluess.
Moose
Well-known member
[quote="Matty Hoops" post=339788]It's not quite apples to apples as this coach had more NCAA tournament success at his small conference school, but Larranaga is a decent comparison for Cluess. Both are winners. Larranaga posted a .625 overall winning % at George Mason with a .676 conference mark. At Iona, Cluess has coached his teams to a .648 overall and .729 conference winning percentage. Larranaga took that Miami job at the age of 62 or so and has gone 175-97 with two Sweet 16 performances. He's made post-season play 6 out of 8 seasons (2 NIT and 4 NCAA). I think we'd all sign up for similar success with Cluess.[/quote]
That's pretty good comparison Matty
That's pretty good comparison Matty
we are sju
Active member
[quote="MCNPA" post=339759]I think Cragg will surprise us as well. He seems real sharp. He’s got big goals and is untainted by the loser mentality that has beaten us down for decades. He’s only known winning, top notch programs the last 30 years. I kinda like Cluess but I too don’t think he will be our coach unless we strike out at several steps.[/quote]
Certainly surprised me with Scheyer. Not in a good way though.
Certainly surprised me with Scheyer. Not in a good way though.
[quote="Matty Hoops" post=339788]It's not quite apples to apples as this coach had more NCAA tournament success at his small conference school, but Larranaga is a decent comparison for Cluess. Both are winners. Larranaga posted a .625 overall winning % at George Mason with a .676 conference mark. At Iona, Cluess has coached his teams to a .648 overall and .729 conference winning percentage. Larranaga took that Miami job at the age of 62 or so and has gone 175-97 with two Sweet 16 performances. He's made post-season play 6 out of 8 seasons (2 NIT and 4 NCAA). I think we'd all sign up for similar success with Cluess.[/quote]
That is interesting but we also need to keep in mind Larranaga made a final four at George mason (and the round of 32 a few years later) and cluess hasn’t won a single ncaa game.
That is interesting but we also need to keep in mind Larranaga made a final four at George mason (and the round of 32 a few years later) and cluess hasn’t won a single ncaa game.