Catholics A Minority

Do you really think that a Christian believes that ONLY a Christian is capable of being reverent to God, and only a Christian is capable of compassion or goodness? Bruce Beck is Jewish, but has been greatly moved by the good work being done at Bread and Life by the University. Do you think that any non-Christian receiving charity from SJU or Catholic Charities for that matter, is incapable of being grateful for their goodness. The only difference on the receiving end is that if you are Christian, you would recognize their the charity being provided for you is provided out of love for God. if you aren't religious, you see the giving as simply coming from humanitarian concerns.
Click to expand...
 

Thank you. This gets back to the larger point.

If a non-believer like Beck can actively participate in arguably STJ's most noble pursuit and by doing so is living in a Christ-like fashion, why should the university care to which God he prays or doesn't pray?
Click to expand...
 

The University goes to great lengths to say they embrace Judeo-Christian values, but I don't think that being a Catholic University means exclusivity to a 100% Catholic student population. I DO think that in order to provide a Catholic education, that the overhwelming majority of students be Catholic, and that the remainder come to the school with an understanding that they are going to learn about Christianity, and that the schools mission is faith formation of its students. Beck saw the wonderful things going on at Bread and Life,
understood it's religious and humanitarian significance and chose to participate, and was welcomed. My point to others on this thread is that if you come to SJU and all not only reject all monotheistic beliefs, not to mention Christian or Catholic, there are better schools for you, and better students to attend the school who are open to such learning. 

I hope you don't see it as a personal attack, because it isn't. Everyone is entitled to his belief. A key tenet of faith is that it is not imposed on you, but embraced. God gives man a free will, and it is up to man to respond, and not for anyone else to force him to respond or judge him for not responding.
Click to expand...
 




A key tenet of faith is that it is not imposed on you, but embraced. .
Click to expand...


You didn't grow up in my neighborhood.
We were for the most part children of Irish immigrants and believe me, our faith was imposed on us.
Mandatory Catholic school, altar boys, choir boys, daily mass, stations of the cross every Thursday, I could go on ad nauseum.
Interesting that as we enjoy life in our 60's, almost none of us are practicing Catholics.
But you know something?
We're still very good, giving, caring people.
As are our children and grand kids.[/quote] 

Tom, Many very good adults still bare the emotional (and sometimes physical) scars of a parochical primary education in the 50s and 60s. As children, participating in the sacramental life of the church (weekly confession, mass, communion, altar servers, etc.). As parents, that was their choice to bring you up in the church. Actually, it was more than a choice - it was a solemn promise they made at your baptism. As an adult, you were free to exercise your will and accept or reject the faith they brought you up in.

I have read many if not most of your posts, and I would agree with your self assessment that you ARE a very good, caring person. One of the things I am prayerful about, for you, myself, and others, is to be open for what God has in mind for you. You may just realize one day, that while you weren't devotional, you were still living your life the way God intended.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments on a subject that is extremely emotional.

It's funny, but most of the friends I made in college, many at SJU, were of strong faith then, and are of strong faith now. We weren't Newman club at SJU, or involved in campus ministry at all, and played hardscrabble frat football and basketball, and were involved in things central to university student life.

I applaud your goodness, and again, do not mean you or anyone else, any discomfort on this subject. I am resolute on this matter, though. If our Catholic Universities do not provide faith based instruction to collegians, then where would they possibly turn to be fully formed in their faith as young men and women on the brink of adulthood?  
 
 So that means that Christians are basically doing good things to please god and cover their butt when judgement comes. Non-religious people do good things because of genuine love for others. We don't expect a reward like heaven. Saying all goodness comes from god is just the most ignorant thing you can say. I am living proof that goodness does NOT come from a god because I am the least religious you can be and I always do good things. Morals are innate it has been proven over and over. See the dog at the soldier's funeral laying under the casket? That dog does not believe in a god but it has a sense of morals...it loves its owner and feels sad he is gone.
 
 Well religion really has no place in colleges anymore. Sorry if it hurts, but it's the truth. The only sign SJ is a religious school is the crucifixes on the walls and a few quotes on buildings, that's about it. No one talks about going to mass they talk about finishing finals and getting a degree. And yes I do have empirical evidence to show that atheists are correlated with a higher IQ. There have been some studies.
 
 By definition you can't have free will with a god who rules the universe. That's an oxymoron. It's like saying North Korea has a freedom Dictatorship.
 
 Agreed...and faith by definition is basically imposed on you because it's either believe in god or burn in hell for all eternity. That's a threat...it IS imposed.
 
Do you really think that a Christian believes that ONLY a Christian is capable of being reverent to God, and only a Christian is capable of compassion or goodness? Bruce Beck is Jewish, but has been greatly moved by the good work being done at Bread and Life by the University. Do you think that any non-Christian receiving charity from SJU or Catholic Charities for that matter, is incapable of being grateful for their goodness. The only difference on the receiving end is that if you are Christian, you would recognize their the charity being provided for you is provided out of love for God. if you aren't religious, you see the giving as simply coming from humanitarian concerns.
Click to expand...
 

Thank you. This gets back to the larger point.

If a non-believer like Beck can actively participate in arguably STJ's most noble pursuit and by doing so is living in a Christ-like fashion, why should the university care to which God he prays or doesn't pray?
Click to expand...
 

The University goes to great lengths to say they embrace Judeo-Christian values, but I don't think that being a Catholic University means exclusivity to a 100% Catholic student population. I DO think that in order to provide a Catholic education, that the overhwelming majority of students be Catholic, and that the remainder come to the school with an understanding that they are going to learn about Christianity, and that the schools mission is faith formation of its students. Beck saw the wonderful things going on at Bread and Life,
understood it's religious and humanitarian significance and chose to participate, and was welcomed. My point to others on this thread is that if you come to SJU and all not only reject all monotheistic beliefs, not to mention Christian or Catholic, there are better schools for you, and better students to attend the school who are open to such learning. 

I hope you don't see it as a personal attack, because it isn't. Everyone is entitled to his belief. A key tenet of faith is that it is not imposed on you, but embraced. God gives man a free will, and it is up to man to respond, and not for anyone else to force him to respond or judge him for not responding.
Click to expand...
 




A key tenet of faith is that it is not imposed on you, but embraced. .
Click to expand...


You didn't grow up in my neighborhood.
We were for the most part children of Irish immigrants and believe me, our faith was imposed on us.
Mandatory Catholic school, altar boys, choir boys, daily mass, stations of the cross every Thursday, I could go on ad nauseum.
Interesting that as we enjoy life in our 60's, almost none of us are practicing Catholics.
But you know something?
We're still very good, giving, caring people.
As are our children and grand kids.
Click to expand...
 

Tom, Many very good adults still bare the emotional (and sometimes physical) scars of a parochical primary education in the 50s and 60s. As children, participating in the sacramental life of the church (weekly confession, mass, communion, altar servers, etc.). As parents, that was their choice to bring you up in the church. Actually, it was more than a choice - it was a solemn promise they made at your baptism. As an adult, you were free to exercise your will and accept or reject the faith they brought you up in.

I have read many if not most of your posts, and I would agree with your self assessment that you ARE a very good, caring person. One of the things I am prayerful about, for you, myself, and others, is to be open for what God has in mind for you. You may just realize one day, that while you weren't devotional, you were still living your life the way God intended.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments on a subject that is extremely emotional.

It's funny, but most of the friends I made in college, many at SJU, were of strong faith then, and are of strong faith now. We weren't Newman club at SJU, or involved in campus ministry at all, and played hardscrabble frat football and basketball, and were involved in things central to university student life.

I applaud your goodness, and again, do not mean you or anyone else, any discomfort on this subject. I am resolute on this matter, though. If our Catholic Universities do not provide faith based instruction to collegians, then where would they possibly turn to be fully formed in their faith as young men and women on the brink of adulthood?  [/quote] 

By the way, just wanted to clear up as well...this is not a personal attack at all. Just stating my beliefs on the issue. You might also find this interesting...at Marist you get extra priority points (used to select better on campus housing the more you have) by joining groups...so one of the most popular groups at Marist was Campus Ministry. Not because students were religious, but only to get easy points...all you had to do was sit through a half hour lecture and you could text the whole time. I just think it's really telling of where my generation stands with religion.
 
Honestly, who cares anyway? My generation (I'm 23) does not care about religion. If someone writes down they are catholic, it doesn't mean they care about it or that they go to church. I'd say 75% of people my age either don't care at all about religion or can't stand it. Even when people my age go to church, it's often just because it's their cousin's communion or something where the family dragged them there. Almost no one cares anymore what colleges are what religion. I go to SJU and I am the least religious person you can meet. We SHOULD be a secular nation. 
Click to expand...
 

I would also suggest that when you get married, you refuse to get married in a church, when you have children, you don't baptize them, when you are mortally ill, do not have someone call for a priest, and refuse to be laid to rest in a religious cemetary. My guess is that you will perform some or all of these functions, which will be hypocritical. You certainly has a human right, and even if you aren't religious, a God-given right (in the truest sense) to reject any or all of religion. Some very learned theologians would describe your circumstance as literally what hell is, the self imposed separation from the love of God. The problem with your position, is that there is an underlying tone that because you aren't religious, and reject the notion of God and Christ, is that's what everyone does, and should do. Those of us who believe in Catholic education believe that Catholic Univerisities are participating in the secularization of society by becoming coroporate entities engaging in the best way to increase revenues, maximize profits, and produce a healthy balance sheet, all the while ignoring their critical role in the formation of faith for young adults.
Click to expand...
 

The problem with your arguments is you insist on talking in absolutes; I am well in my 60's and I assure you that not everyone in your generation rejects religion; this I know from personal experience. You also are very much confusing organized religion with what I call "belief" religion which is following the basic humanistic tenets virtually all religions espouse, tenets you yourself in one of your early posts said you follow. Sadly, and I say this as a very active, practicing Catholic, the organized Catholic religion out of Rome is not a religion at all but a business and as a Catholic I feel it is my duty to not only acknowledge that but to oppose it which I do in my small way. But that does not mean I reject Jesus' teachings but rather that I understand that Rome, as it were, has circumvented and twisted those teachings for selfish gain. Ignoring the obvious sex scandals, the closing of Catholic schools in the areas they are most needed, the inner cities, in the name of profits is abhorent to me and couldn't be further from the teachings of Jesus Christ. A couple of final thoughts, forgetting organized religion, where do you think the inate humane values you describe come from? Finally, the creation of the universe as described in the Bible is a fairly short and accurate description of what most of us refer to as the Big Bang Theory.

All those things you mentioned do not require being religious to take part in. Religion is nothing but a cultural phenomenon...if you were born in Iraq you would follow Islam. If you were born in Israel you would follow Judaism. If you were born in America you would follow Christianity. Therefore, getting married in a church, or baptizing a child, etc. is just a sort of rite of passage...they are just symbolic cultural gestures. I have a cross on my arm with my father's initials on it...not because I'm religious...it's symbolic. You don't have to devoutly believe in everything you take a part of. The only reason secular people still baptize their children, have their kids communions, etc. is because they don't want to ruffle feathers within the family and stir the pot claiming to be non-religious. It's much easier to just go with the flow instead of debating relatives and getting confrontational. If there was no fear of backlash and negative labeling, then I guarantee you people would stop this nonsense. Religion should be taught as a cultural phenomenon in this country that has affected our history, but NOT use intelligent design as a viable explanation for how we came to be as there is 0 evidence of such. Religion is stagnant...there is no progression. Religion hinders and sometimes prevents free thought. It gives someone the audacity to claim they know all the answers using a god of the gaps theory when in fact they have no better idea than anyone else. Hate to break it to you, but my generation is OVERWHELMINGLY non-religious with many of those adamantly anti-religion. Being an atheist today is akin to being gay in the past...give it 50 years and atheists will come out of the closet more and people will treat them normally instead of as if they were devils.
Click to expand...
 

The problem with your position is that as an atheist you try to convince the rest of the world that your position is correct. I would say you have no place at a Catholic University since you've already rejected every relgious tenet of the school. To think that a baptism, or Eucharist is a cultural phenomenon that everyone in yur generation paticipates in while rejecting any religious importance is the height of hypocrisy. I'm sure then that at a funeral, you go up to receive communion, not as a cultural phenomenom, but as a sign to others that you are a good boy. If you are anti-religion, I'm sorry, but you've made your mind up and I would really prefer that a seat is taken in Catholic University by someone who wants to grow in faith. There are plenty of schools that are non-religious, and while i have malice towards you, feel that Catholic education is for those Catholics and Christians that have some interest in growing academically and spiritually.
Click to expand...
 

The atheist position is NOT to gain membership...it's to encourage rational thought, critical-thinking, and show people that science is FACT. It's completely the opposite. Religious people literally knock on your door with fliers, nearly demand donations almost as if they were for indulgences like in the Martin Luther days, stand on corners in every city in America with microphones, and come up to you at LIRR stations with pamphlets about how Jesus is the only way. You could not be more wrong in your first few statements. Atheists have no doctrine, therefore it's not something where members are sought out. People are encouraged to come out of the closet who are on the fence about god, not to convert already religious people. I have no place at a Catholic University? Excuse me sir, but is that not what whites in the south said to blacks back in the day? This country is deeply religious overall from the founding of the nation to present, so Catholic schools are everywhere. It's not like there's some Atheist University people can go. Nearly every college these days has some kind of Catholic background but no one my age cares about that today...literally never even heard anyone speak of going to church in 4 years at Marist or 1 year so far at SJU. Kids go to school to get their degrees and get careers, not to worship. You claim you have malice towards me. Is that the Catholic way sir? Funny how religious people pride themselves in "loving thy neighbor" and never act that way in reality. Saying that there is no place for non-religious people at a Catholic school is no different than saying there is no place for blacks at a white school. 50 years from now do you want to be seen as the one who was accepting or intolerant? College is the last place religion is relevant...it's the place where kids become adults and begin to think for themselves, thinking new ideas, hearing alternatives from others, debating, rationalizing, critical-thinking...college is the polar opposite of religion. How ironic that I was in a previously Catholic school when I threw my faith out the window. Did you know that there's a positive correlation with well-educated people and non-belief?
Click to expand...
 
 
 Agreed...and faith by definition is basically imposed on you because it's either believe in god or burn in hell for all eternity. That's a threat...it IS imposed.
Click to expand...
 

If you're going to challenge the tenets of Catholicism, you really need to brush up on divinity, salvation and the nature of free will.

Because right now you're talking jibber jabber in spite of your superior IQ.
 
 Divinity has never been proven...ever. So you might as well be talking about Alchemy turning stone into gold. Salvation is just part of the same doctrine. We do not have free will, because god supposedly interjects in our lives. If you believe prayer works, then free will contradicts it. A god involved in your personal life interferes, thus you don't have free will believing in an all powerful god. You believe god is omniscient and already knows everything you will do in your lifetime from conception to death. How is that free will? I also hear many Christians say "Well god put me in this situation purposely" or "god has a reason for this happening to me". That implies that free will does NOT exist.
 
 Well religion really has no place in colleges anymore. Sorry if it hurts, but it's the truth. The only sign SJ is a religious school is the crucifixes on the walls and a few quotes on buildings, that's about it. No one talks about going to mass they talk about finishing finals and getting a degree. And yes I do have empirical evidence to show that atheists are correlated with a higher IQ. There have been some studies.
Click to expand...
 



I think the Church on campus is a pretty good clue that St. John's is a religious (and Catholic) university.
 
 Sure it can be referred to as one, but that doesn't mean religion is an important part of life for students or faculty. In fact almost every professor I've had from undergrad to grad school has been non-religious as I'm in a scientific field. This isn't 1950 where students would take their hats off and bow before every cross and go to church every Sunday. It's 2012 and student interests are drinking, partying, grades, getting a degree, and getting a good job. Only radicals for the most part choose their college based on religious affiliation. St. John's has some programs that most others don't in the NYC area. We make our decisions based on the programs offered, proximity to home, and the school's academic reputation...not religious affiliation (for most).
 
 Divinity has never been proven...ever. So you might as well be talking about Alchemy turning stone into gold. Salvation is just part of the same doctrine. We do not have free will, because god supposedly interjects in our lives. If you believe prayer works, then free will contradicts it. A god involved in your personal life interferes, thus you don't have free will believing in an all powerful god. You believe god is omniscient and already knows everything you will do in your lifetime from conception to death. How is that free will? I also hear many Christians say "Well god put me in this situation purposely" or "god has a reason for this happening to me". That implies that free will does NOT exist.
Click to expand...
 

Every person is free to believe what they want. Christian, Muslim, Jew, Jain, Buddist or Athiest, we all have an expiration date. What really matters is the "goodness" of humans towards each other regardless of spiritual beliefs. Religions were established to foster that goodness.....not to compete with each others' doctrines. That Catholics are a minority in "Catholic" colleges means nothing in today's academic world. The founders of these schools were Catholic clergy but just as Protestant Duke and Harvard were founded by and for Protestants originally, today's religious and cultural realities make most private colleges "non-denominational" as a very small percentage of young people actually practice their religion anymore and inter-faith marriages are diluting all religious affiliation for the married couples. Traditional religions are dying in the Christian world while the eastern religions and Muslims have remained closer to their original tenets.
 
 So that means that Christians are basically doing good things to please god and cover their butt when judgement comes. Non-religious people do good things because of genuine love for others. We don't expect a reward like heaven. Saying all goodness comes from god is just the most ignorant thing you can say. I am living proof that goodness does NOT come from a god because I am the least religious you can be and I always do good things. Morals are innate it has been proven over and over. See the dog at the soldier's funeral laying under the casket? That dog does not believe in a god but it has a sense of morals...it loves its owner and feels sad he is gone.
Click to expand...
 

Actually, Joe, for someone who attended Catholic Universities, have some curious and misguided views. Christians do good as a response to God's love and attempt to follow his will. Those good acts will get you nowhere, as noone has ever been saved by good acts.

The prophet Isaiah wrote (64:6)

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

We are held in judgement for our sins, which convict us. The Apostle Paul wrote, "No one was ever saved by the law" (Mosiac law). Which is why to Christians that the death and resurrection of Christ, was to pay in full for ours sins by his death on the cross, and his ressurection a victory over death. Good acts are a faith response, not a ticket to heaven.

You have no justification for even wanting to go good acts, except guided by your conscience, which was implanted by God. Tell me why you shouldn't rob, steal, and kill, if it enhances your human life? You can't, because there isn't any basis for it without God.

Whether or not you believe in God does nothing to disprove or prove God's existence (nor does mine). However, God in his omnipotence, and your creator, is capable of imparting the Holy Spirit upon your soul.

Sounds very far off your belief system. I'm not a religious freak, and not even devout. Faith implies doubt, and even Mother Theresa despite her strong faith, had moments of doubt. So did Abraham Lincoln, who was not a member of any church, but began each day by reading the Bible.

If you studied Catholic philosophy at St. John's you will know that Catholic teaching believes that a dog has no moral sense, because a dog has no soul. While a dog can be loyal and faithful, there is no moral sense that tells him not to take a roast beef off a table, or bite the mailman, or kill a bird. He can respond to what he i trained to do by his master, who must prove superior to him for him to be obedient, the alpha dog so to speak.

Before you call a comment ignorant, you should at least be prepare din your knowledge of Catholic theology, no disrepect intended.
 
Do you really think that a Christian believes that ONLY a Christian is capable of being reverent to God, and only a Christian is capable of compassion or goodness? Bruce Beck is Jewish, but has been greatly moved by the good work being done at Bread and Life by the University. Do you think that any non-Christian receiving charity from SJU or Catholic Charities for that matter, is incapable of being grateful for their goodness. The only difference on the receiving end is that if you are Christian, you would recognize their the charity being provided for you is provided out of love for God. if you aren't religious, you see the giving as simply coming from humanitarian concerns.
Click to expand...
 

Thank you. This gets back to the larger point.

If a non-believer like Beck can actively participate in arguably STJ's most noble pursuit and by doing so is living in a Christ-like fashion, why should the university care to which God he prays or doesn't pray?
Click to expand...
 

The University goes to great lengths to say they embrace Judeo-Christian values, but I don't think that being a Catholic University means exclusivity to a 100% Catholic student population. I DO think that in order to provide a Catholic education, that the overhwelming majority of students be Catholic, and that the remainder come to the school with an understanding that they are going to learn about Christianity, and that the schools mission is faith formation of its students. Beck saw the wonderful things going on at Bread and Life,
understood it's religious and humanitarian significance and chose to participate, and was welcomed. My point to others on this thread is that if you come to SJU and all not only reject all monotheistic beliefs, not to mention Christian or Catholic, there are better schools for you, and better students to attend the school who are open to such learning. 

I hope you don't see it as a personal attack, because it isn't. Everyone is entitled to his belief. A key tenet of faith is that it is not imposed on you, but embraced. God gives man a free will, and it is up to man to respond, and not for anyone else to force him to respond or judge him for not responding.
Click to expand...
 




A key tenet of faith is that it is not imposed on you, but embraced. .
Click to expand...


You didn't grow up in my neighborhood.
We were for the most part children of Irish immigrants and believe me, our faith was imposed on us.
Mandatory Catholic school, altar boys, choir boys, daily mass, stations of the cross every Thursday, I could go on ad nauseum.
Interesting that as we enjoy life in our 60's, almost none of us are practicing Catholics.
But you know something?
We're still very good, giving, caring people.
As are our children and grand kids.
Click to expand...
 

Tom, Many very good adults still bare the emotional (and sometimes physical) scars of a parochical primary education in the 50s and 60s. As children, participating in the sacramental life of the church (weekly confession, mass, communion, altar servers, etc.). As parents, that was their choice to bring you up in the church. Actually, it was more than a choice - it was a solemn promise they made at your baptism. As an adult, you were free to exercise your will and accept or reject the faith they brought you up in.

I have read many if not most of your posts, and I would agree with your self assessment that you ARE a very good, caring person. One of the things I am prayerful about, for you, myself, and others, is to be open for what God has in mind for you. You may just realize one day, that while you weren't devotional, you were still living your life the way God intended.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments on a subject that is extremely emotional.

It's funny, but most of the friends I made in college, many at SJU, were of strong faith then, and are of strong faith now. We weren't Newman club at SJU, or involved in campus ministry at all, and played hardscrabble frat football and basketball, and were involved in things central to university student life.

I applaud your goodness, and again, do not mean you or anyone else, any discomfort on this subject. I am resolute on this matter, though. If our Catholic Universities do not provide faith based instruction to collegians, then where would they possibly turn to be fully formed in their faith as young men and women on the brink of adulthood?  
Click to expand...
 

By the way, just wanted to clear up as well...this is not a personal attack at all. Just stating my beliefs on the issue. You might also find this interesting...at Marist you get extra priority points (used to select better on campus housing the more you have) by joining groups...so one of the most popular groups at Marist was Campus Ministry. Not because students were religious, but only to get easy points...all you had to do was sit through a half hour lecture and you could text the whole time. I just think it's really telling of where my generation stands with religion.[/quote] 

THank you for helping to prove my point - that the secularization of Catholic Universities results in a student body that cares little about the faith they were raised, and are not educated in that faith as part of their education.
 
 Does participating in this thread mean that one's few remaining drops of self-restraint have disappeared and if so is it a function of intervention by a higher power or just further manifestation of characterological deterioration for which one is wholly responsible?
 
 Divinity has never been proven...ever. So you might as well be talking about Alchemy turning stone into gold. Salvation is just part of the same doctrine. We do not have free will, because god supposedly interjects in our lives. If you believe prayer works, then free will contradicts it. A god involved in your personal life interferes, thus you don't have free will believing in an all powerful god. You believe god is omniscient and already knows everything you will do in your lifetime from conception to death. How is that free will? I also hear many Christians say "Well god put me in this situation purposely" or "god has a reason for this happening to me". That implies that free will does NOT exist.
Click to expand...
 

Every person is free to believe what they want. Christian, Muslim, Jew, Jain, Buddist or Athiest, we all have an expiration date. What really matters is the "goodness" of humans towards each other regardless of spiritual beliefs. Religions were established to foster that goodness.....not to compete with each others' doctrines. That Catholics are a minority in "Catholic" colleges means nothing in today's academic world. The founders of these schools were Catholic clergy but just as Protestant Duke and Harvard were founded by and for Protestants originally, today's religious and cultural realities make most private colleges "non-denominational" as a very small percentage of young people actually practice their religion anymore and inter-faith marriages are diluting all religious affiliation for the married couples. Traditional religions are dying in the Christian world while the eastern religions and Muslims have remained closer to their original tenets.
Click to expand...
 

Religion came about as a way to control the masses. It's one big giant marketing scheme that still keeps people ignorant to this day after thousands of years. They weren't established to compete with other doctrines? Actually, that's all many of them do is hate other denominations and compete. Islamists and Christians fight, Islamists and Jews fight, Christians and Jews fight, Mormoms and Christians fight, you can even throw Scientology in there. They all fight for new members and slander the other religions. They weren't established for goodness they were established for power and wealth. The Pope used to be the most important person in many countries in Europe. He was essentially a dictator. Yes plenty of good comes from religion but at an awful price. Religion is all about power and money like many other things.
 
 So that means that Christians are basically doing good things to please god and cover their butt when judgement comes. Non-religious people do good things because of genuine love for others. We don't expect a reward like heaven. Saying all goodness comes from god is just the most ignorant thing you can say. I am living proof that goodness does NOT come from a god because I am the least religious you can be and I always do good things. Morals are innate it has been proven over and over. See the dog at the soldier's funeral laying under the casket? That dog does not believe in a god but it has a sense of morals...it loves its owner and feels sad he is gone.
Click to expand...
 

Actually, Joe, for someone who attended Catholic Universities, have some curious and misguided views. Christians do good as a response to God's love and attempt to follow his will. Those good acts will get you nowhere, as noone has ever been saved by good acts.

The prophet Isaiah wrote (64:6)

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

We are held in judgement for our sins, which convict us. The Apostle Paul wrote, "No one was ever saved by the law" (Mosiac law). Which is why to Christians that the death and resurrection of Christ, was to pay in full for ours sins by his death on the cross, and his ressurection a victory over death. Good acts are a faith response, not a ticket to heaven.

You have no justification for even wanting to go good acts, except guided by your conscience, which was implanted by God. Tell me why you shouldn't rob, steal, and kill, if it enhances your human life? You can't, because there isn't any basis for it without God.

Whether or not you believe in God does nothing to disprove or prove God's existence (nor does mine). However, God in his omnipotence, and your creator, is capable of imparting the Holy Spirit upon your soul.

Sounds very far off your belief system. I'm not a religious freak, and not even devout. Faith implies doubt, and even Mother Theresa despite her strong faith, had moments of doubt. So did Abraham Lincoln, who was not a member of any church, but began each day by reading the Bible.

If you studied Catholic philosophy at St. John's you will know that Catholic teaching believes that a dog has no moral sense, because a dog has no soul. While a dog can be loyal and faithful, there is no moral sense that tells him not to take a roast beef off a table, or bite the mailman, or kill a bird. He can respond to what he i trained to do by his master, who must prove superior to him for him to be obedient, the alpha dog so to speak.

Before you call a comment ignorant, you should at least be prepare din your knowledge of Catholic theology, no disrepect intended.
Click to expand...
 

Basically everything you just said has been disputed by other Christians countless times. That's one funny part of religion...no one agrees on the same thing even within the same denomination. It's all about interpretation. Some think god wants to kill gay people, some think god wants this and some think god wants that. It's all BS and nothing has been proven as fact. Nothing. Do you realize the gap between when Jesus lived to when the gospels were written? It was a LONG time. This was also at a time when people had no idea where the sun went at night or that the earth was in fact round not flat. What makes you think religion is any more accurate than those other primitive beliefs? And you are wrong...dogs have taken in much smaller, weaker animals, nurturing them rather than attacking. Have you seen videos where even Lions run over to a human they used to know even years later? Not to attack them...to embrace them. Gorillas show grief, dogs show grief, etc. All this without a god. It should be obvious to you that our morals are innate and cultural. You really think we need religion to tell us killing people is bad? I'm pretty sure I know that and I'm an atheist. Rather, religion has started the most wars and conflicts in the history of mankind bar none. War, terrorism, civil rights, land conflicts, etc. All caused by religion. By the way, how do you know your religion is the right one? It's basically like hitting the lotto because there are hundreds of religions out there that claim they are the right one.
 
 My theological summation of this thread is as followed: I don't know whose arrogance is more repugnant Joe3 for pretending to be the voice of his generation or Beast for pretending to know who gets through the Pearly Gates. There's a place in Hell for both you.... maybe. 
 
 My theological summation of this thread is as followed: I don't know whose arrogance is more repugnant Joe3 for pretending to be the voice of his generation or Beast for pretending to know who gets through the Pearly Gates. There's a place in Hell for both you.... maybe. 
Click to expand...
 

It's not arrogance when you demand evidence to believe something and support notions that are supported by science. It's like saying I'm arrogant for saying the sky is blue. There is not 1 shred of evidence proving the existence of Jesus, that there is a heaven/hell, or that Christianity is the correct religion (if there is one) out of the other hundreds of religions who claim to know the truth also. Atheists don't have all the answers and we are ok with saying such. We require evidence to believe things...it's not that hard to understand. All we can do is make the best possible decisions based on the best available evidence at a given time. And I'm not pretending to be the voice of my generation...check all the stats out there...religion is dying out and people have had enough of all the corruption, death, destruction, ignorance, and psychological shaming religion leaves in its path. By the way, we are the ONLY civilized country in the world where many people are devout believers. Our quality of life is also way down compared to the secular countries with more non-believers. Religiosity is trending down steeply and it's not my doing, I'm just reporting it. 
 
 My theological summation of this thread is as followed: I don't know whose arrogance is more repugnant Joe3 for pretending to be the voice of his generation or Beast for pretending to know who gets through the Pearly Gates. There's a place in Hell for both you.... maybe. 
Click to expand...
 

I think it's really funny that you can attach arrogance to commentary on a a thread by someone who is trying to patiently explain Catholic doctrine, when the purpose of the thread was to discuss the secularization of univeristies that were founded for a religious mission. It's astounding you can cast negativity on the explanation of cathlic doctrine, which some of the negative posters on here chose this thread to reject.

For many alumni, the fact that St. John's was a CAtholic University was an important part of our decision to attend the university and the continued decline in Catholic enrollment is disconcerting. As you are likely aware, FH and the BOT is very aware of this fact, and are actively taking steps to try to reverse this trend. IMO it is not enough, and we will see how it unfolds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top