Catholics A Minority

[MainMan]

Are you aware that Norm Roberts prayed with his players as a group. He had said that many of them had never prayed before, and certainly not aloud with a group of young men. Such actions help enable players to reinforce that they are indeed at a religious institution, and that missions that they participate in, such as Bread and Life, are not just social missions but ways to spread God's love in this world.

 

Do STJ basketball players volunteer at Bread & Life more than just a few days before Thanksgiving?

If yes, then I'm glad the players have either taken it upon themselves to live the Word, or that the university has required them to do so as a lesson in humility, public service and religious devotion.

If no, then it's just an easy publicity stunt not worthy of adulation.

 

[austour]

Honestly, who cares anyway? My generation (I'm 23) does not care about religion. If someone writes down they are catholic, it doesn't mean they care about it or that they go to church. I'd say 75% of people my age either don't care at all about religion or can't stand it. Even when people my age go to church, it's often just because it's their cousin's communion or something where the family dragged them there. Almost no one cares anymore what colleges are what religion. I go to SJU and I am the least religious person you can meet. We SHOULD be a secular nation. 

 

I would also suggest that when you get married, you refuse to get married in a church, when you have children, you don't baptize them, when you are mortally ill, do not have someone call for a priest, and refuse to be laid to rest in a religious cemetary. My guess is that you will perform some or all of these functions, which will be hypocritical. You certainly has a human right, and even if you aren't religious, a God-given right (in the truest sense) to reject any or all of religion. Some very learned theologians would describe your circumstance as literally what hell is, the self imposed separation from the love of God. The problem with your position, is that there is an underlying tone that because you aren't religious, and reject the notion of God and Christ, is that's what everyone does, and should do. Those of us who believe in Catholic education believe that Catholic Univerisities are participating in the secularization of society by becoming coroporate entities engaging in the best way to increase revenues, maximize profits, and produce a healthy balance sheet, all the while ignoring their critical role in the formation of faith for young adults.

 

All those things you mentioned do not require being religious to take part in. Religion is nothing but a cultural phenomenon...if you were born in Iraq you would follow Islam. If you were born in Israel you would follow Judaism. If you were born in America you would follow Christianity. Therefore, getting married in a church, or baptizing a child, etc. is just a sort of rite of passage...they are just symbolic cultural gestures. I have a cross on my arm with my father's initials on it...not because I'm religious...it's symbolic. You don't have to devoutly believe in everything you take a part of. The only reason secular people still baptize their children, have their kids communions, etc. is because they don't want to ruffle feathers within the family and stir the pot claiming to be non-religious. It's much easier to just go with the flow instead of debating relatives and getting confrontational. If there was no fear of backlash and negative labeling, then I guarantee you people would stop this nonsense. Religion should be taught as a cultural phenomenon in this country that has affected our history, but NOT use intelligent design as a viable explanation for how we came to be as there is 0 evidence of such. Religion is stagnant...there is no progression. Religion hinders and sometimes prevents free thought. It gives someone the audacity to claim they know all the answers using a god of the gaps theory when in fact they have no better idea than anyone else. Hate to break it to you, but my generation is OVERWHELMINGLY non-religious with many of those adamantly anti-religion. Being an atheist today is akin to being gay in the past...give it 50 years and atheists will come out of the closet more and people will treat them normally instead of as if they were devils.

 

I guess it might be because I've only lived in NY and LA (I always tell people I know nothing of "America") , but I don't feel like people treat me as if I was the devil. And I'm very open about my atheism. But I can relate to the ruffling feathers part of the equation, especially as it relates to my kids and two of their three sets of grandparents (the third grandpa gave us a copy of the God Delusion, lol). Not that there's bad relationships but early on we had to remind our folks to keep their beliefs to themselves while our kids were growing up.

 

[joered]

If you eat at your parents table, a certain amount of respect is due. But consider this; If you wish to ignore your parents, or even dislike them, you would be wise to remember that you are living under their roof, and partaking of their work and effort.

Yes, of course you have every right to be your own person, and believe or not believe. But St Johns was founded as a Catholic institution, specifically for working class students, and spiritually as a Vincentian school. If you partake of this tradition, if you sit in these assembly halls and classrooms, and live in this environment, some modicum of respect is owed to the tradition and all the students and benefactors who have preceeded you.

In my day, we would call a person like you an ingrate.

 

[austour]

If you eat at your parents table, a certain amount of respect is due. But consider this; If you wish to ignore your parents, or even dislike them, you would be wise to remember that you are living under their roof, and partaking of their work and effort.

Yes, of course you have every right to be your own person, and believe or not believe. But St Johns was founded as a Catholic institution, specifically for working class students, and spiritually as a Vincentian school. If you partake of this tradition, if you sit in these assembly halls and classrooms, and live in this environment, some modicum of respect is owed to the tradition and all the students and benefactors who have preceeded you.

In my day, we would call a person like you an ingrate.

 

Who are you directing this to? None of the folks commenting here seem to be living under their parents roofs so the first para seems to be moot. I went to church like my folks (my father really, my mom is on my team) asked of me when I was in their home and respect their right to believe or not in god and and all the other legends of their religion but if you think that means I should respect their right to proselytize my kids to the same, well we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't argue with your points re St Johns and it's for that reason I never attended a catholic school nor would have my kids attend one. It would feel a bit hypocritical.

 

[joered]

 i was using an analogy...parents/faith...home/church...when you were home, even when things were tense with your parents, you never spoke ill of them,. Am I correct?

So, if you are going to a Catholic school, you do not put into wrting your own disassocation from your "religion". It's kind of bad manners; don't you think?

 

[austour]

 i was using an analogy...parents/faith...home/church...when you were home, even when things were tense with your parents, you never spoke ill of them,. Am I correct?

So, if you are going to a Catholic school, you do not put into wrting your own disassocation from your "religion". It's kind of bad manners; don't you think?

 

Yes to the first. The second would just seem like free expression and debate though I'd question why someone who would end up in that situation went to Catholic school in the first place. Your parents and home are forced upon you at birth and traditionally stay with you throughout your life. Your faith and church are usually forced upon you at birth but at some point you have to become your own person and take your own position. However maybe for some that doesn't happen until they're able to leave the next as it were and for some that might be after they've started at at school.

 

[beast of the east]

Honestly, who cares anyway? My generation (I'm 23) does not care about religion. If someone writes down they are catholic, it doesn't mean they care about it or that they go to church. I'd say 75% of people my age either don't care at all about religion or can't stand it. Even when people my age go to church, it's often just because it's their cousin's communion or something where the family dragged them there. Almost no one cares anymore what colleges are what religion. I go to SJU and I am the least religious person you can meet. We SHOULD be a secular nation. 

 

I would also suggest that when you get married, you refuse to get married in a church, when you have children, you don't baptize them, when you are mortally ill, do not have someone call for a priest, and refuse to be laid to rest in a religious cemetary. My guess is that you will perform some or all of these functions, which will be hypocritical. You certainly has a human right, and even if you aren't religious, a God-given right (in the truest sense) to reject any or all of religion. Some very learned theologians would describe your circumstance as literally what hell is, the self imposed separation from the love of God. The problem with your position, is that there is an underlying tone that because you aren't religious, and reject the notion of God and Christ, is that's what everyone does, and should do. Those of us who believe in Catholic education believe that Catholic Univerisities are participating in the secularization of society by becoming coroporate entities engaging in the best way to increase revenues, maximize profits, and produce a healthy balance sheet, all the while ignoring their critical role in the formation of faith for young adults.

 

All those things you mentioned do not require being religious to take part in. Religion is nothing but a cultural phenomenon...if you were born in Iraq you would follow Islam. If you were born in Israel you would follow Judaism. If you were born in America you would follow Christianity. Therefore, getting married in a church, or baptizing a child, etc. is just a sort of rite of passage...they are just symbolic cultural gestures. I have a cross on my arm with my father's initials on it...not because I'm religious...it's symbolic. You don't have to devoutly believe in everything you take a part of. The only reason secular people still baptize their children, have their kids communions, etc. is because they don't want to ruffle feathers within the family and stir the pot claiming to be non-religious. It's much easier to just go with the flow instead of debating relatives and getting confrontational. If there was no fear of backlash and negative labeling, then I guarantee you people would stop this nonsense. Religion should be taught as a cultural phenomenon in this country that has affected our history, but NOT use intelligent design as a viable explanation for how we came to be as there is 0 evidence of such. Religion is stagnant...there is no progression. Religion hinders and sometimes prevents free thought. It gives someone the audacity to claim they know all the answers using a god of the gaps theory when in fact they have no better idea than anyone else. Hate to break it to you, but my generation is OVERWHELMINGLY non-religious with many of those adamantly anti-religion. Being an atheist today is akin to being gay in the past...give it 50 years and atheists will come out of the closet more and people will treat them normally instead of as if they were devils.

 

The problem with your position is that as an atheist you try to convince the rest of the world that your position is correct. I would say you have no place at a Catholic University since you've already rejected every relgious tenet of the school. To think that a baptism, or Eucharist is a cultural phenomenon that everyone in yur generation paticipates in while rejecting any religious importance is the height of hypocrisy. I'm sure then that at a funeral, you go up to receive communion, not as a cultural phenomenom, but as a sign to others that you are a good boy. If you are anti-religion, I'm sorry, but you've made your mind up and I would really prefer that a seat is taken in Catholic University by someone who wants to grow in faith. There are plenty of schools that are non-religious, and while i have malice towards you, feel that Catholic education is for those Catholics and Christians that have some interest in growing academically and spiritually.

 

[beast of the east]

Are you aware that Norm Roberts prayed with his players as a group. He had said that many of them had never prayed before, and certainly not aloud with a group of young men. Such actions help enable players to reinforce that they are indeed at a religious institution, and that missions that they participate in, such as Bread and Life, are not just social missions but ways to spread God's love in this world.

 

Do STJ basketball players volunteer at Bread & Life more than just a few days before Thanksgiving?

If yes, then I'm glad the players have either taken it upon themselves to live the Word, or that the university has required them to do so as a lesson in humility, public service and religious devotion.

If no, then it's just an easy publicity stunt not worthy of adulation.

 

As to your last comments, I feel that giving is transformational. Bruce Beck, who one year decided to attend the Bread and Life Thanksgiving dinner was so moved, that now both he and his entire family volunteer. I think it is part of the St. John's basketball tradition to get players involved in community service. Of course, if you are an athest, you can conclude it's jsut a social mission, and without reminding all volunteers that the Gospels call us to share God's love in all ways with those less fortunate, then it becomes just another cheese truck.

 

[beast of the east]

 i was using an analogy...parents/faith...home/church...when you were home, even when things were tense with your parents, you never spoke ill of them,. Am I correct?

So, if you are going to a Catholic school, you do not put into wrting your own disassocation from your "religion". It's kind of bad manners; don't you think?

 

Yes to the first. The second would just seem like free expression and debate though I'd question why someone who would end up in that situation went to Catholic school in the first place. Your parents and home are forced upon you at birth and traditionally stay with you throughout your life. Your faith and church are usually forced upon you at birth but at some point you have to become your own person and take your own position. However maybe for some that doesn't happen until they're able to leave the next as it were and for some that might be after they've started at at school.

 

I respect that as an adult you rejected religion, and made a public declaration of your decision to reject God and faith, instead of maintaining a charade to please family, and instead take Sacraments that a religion takes very seriously and make a mockery of them by participating in them while you reject them. As to commentary about "legends", "Fairytales", and other blatantly disrespectful descriptions of God, Christian or otherwise, I feel that those are immature references when you are not being treated in kind by those who have religious beliefts. I respect your and anyone elses right to reject faith. However, this thread was more about the notion that Catholic universities have deliberately become more secular in order to advance their business objectives. The commentary in this section by students (current and former) of St. John's underscores the failure of the university to meet its Catholic mission by accepting a majority of non-Catholic students.

Again, without malice or disrepect to anyone posting here, I'd like the Vincentian leadership to read what has been posted here. If truly representative of the student population at SJU, they are truly reapoing what they are sowing.

 

[MainMan]

As to your last comments, I feel that giving is transformational. Bruce Beck, who one year decided to attend the Bread and Life Thanksgiving dinner was so moved, that now both he and his entire family volunteer. I think it is part of the St. John's basketball tradition to get players involved in community service. Of course, if you are an athest, you can conclude it's jsut a social mission, and without reminding all volunteers that the Gospels call us to share God's love in all ways with those less fortunate, then it becomes just another cheese truck.

 

If Bruce Beck and his family regularly volunteer at B&L, that's admirable.

But since Bruce is Jewish, do you believe he is still capable of showing compassion to his fellow man even if he rejects Christ's divinity?

 

[LINY89]

 So using your logic, should we keep the tradition alive and well at Aushwitz? There was an old tradition there too. Are all traditions equal? Something to think about... 

 

[LINY89]

Honestly, who cares anyway? My generation (I'm 23) does not care about religion. If someone writes down they are catholic, it doesn't mean they care about it or that they go to church. I'd say 75% of people my age either don't care at all about religion or can't stand it. Even when people my age go to church, it's often just because it's their cousin's communion or something where the family dragged them there. Almost no one cares anymore what colleges are what religion. I go to SJU and I am the least religious person you can meet. We SHOULD be a secular nation. 

 

I would also suggest that when you get married, you refuse to get married in a church, when you have children, you don't baptize them, when you are mortally ill, do not have someone call for a priest, and refuse to be laid to rest in a religious cemetary. My guess is that you will perform some or all of these functions, which will be hypocritical. You certainly has a human right, and even if you aren't religious, a God-given right (in the truest sense) to reject any or all of religion. Some very learned theologians would describe your circumstance as literally what hell is, the self imposed separation from the love of God. The problem with your position, is that there is an underlying tone that because you aren't religious, and reject the notion of God and Christ, is that's what everyone does, and should do. Those of us who believe in Catholic education believe that Catholic Univerisities are participating in the secularization of society by becoming coroporate entities engaging in the best way to increase revenues, maximize profits, and produce a healthy balance sheet, all the while ignoring their critical role in the formation of faith for young adults.

 

All those things you mentioned do not require being religious to take part in. Religion is nothing but a cultural phenomenon...if you were born in Iraq you would follow Islam. If you were born in Israel you would follow Judaism. If you were born in America you would follow Christianity. Therefore, getting married in a church, or baptizing a child, etc. is just a sort of rite of passage...they are just symbolic cultural gestures. I have a cross on my arm with my father's initials on it...not because I'm religious...it's symbolic. You don't have to devoutly believe in everything you take a part of. The only reason secular people still baptize their children, have their kids communions, etc. is because they don't want to ruffle feathers within the family and stir the pot claiming to be non-religious. It's much easier to just go with the flow instead of debating relatives and getting confrontational. If there was no fear of backlash and negative labeling, then I guarantee you people would stop this nonsense. Religion should be taught as a cultural phenomenon in this country that has affected our history, but NOT use intelligent design as a viable explanation for how we came to be as there is 0 evidence of such. Religion is stagnant...there is no progression. Religion hinders and sometimes prevents free thought. It gives someone the audacity to claim they know all the answers using a god of the gaps theory when in fact they have no better idea than anyone else. Hate to break it to you, but my generation is OVERWHELMINGLY non-religious with many of those adamantly anti-religion. Being an atheist today is akin to being gay in the past...give it 50 years and atheists will come out of the closet more and people will treat them normally instead of as if they were devils.

 

The problem with your position is that as an atheist you try to convince the rest of the world that your position is correct. I would say you have no place at a Catholic University since you've already rejected every relgious tenet of the school. To think that a baptism, or Eucharist is a cultural phenomenon that everyone in yur generation paticipates in while rejecting any religious importance is the height of hypocrisy. I'm sure then that at a funeral, you go up to receive communion, not as a cultural phenomenom, but as a sign to others that you are a good boy. If you are anti-religion, I'm sorry, but you've made your mind up and I would really prefer that a seat is taken in Catholic University by someone who wants to grow in faith. There are plenty of schools that are non-religious, and while i have malice towards you, feel that Catholic education is for those Catholics and Christians that have some interest in growing academically and spiritually.

 

The atheist position is NOT to gain membership...it's to encourage rational thought, critical-thinking, and show people that science is FACT. It's completely the opposite. Religious people literally knock on your door with fliers, nearly demand donations almost as if they were for indulgences like in the Martin Luther days, stand on corners in every city in America with microphones, and come up to you at LIRR stations with pamphlets about how Jesus is the only way. You could not be more wrong in your first few statements. Atheists have no doctrine, therefore it's not something where members are sought out. People are encouraged to come out of the closet who are on the fence about god, not to convert already religious people. I have no place at a Catholic University? Excuse me sir, but is that not what whites in the south said to blacks back in the day? This country is deeply religious overall from the founding of the nation to present, so Catholic schools are everywhere. It's not like there's some Atheist University people can go. Nearly every college these days has some kind of Catholic background but no one my age cares about that today...literally never even heard anyone speak of going to church in 4 years at Marist or 1 year so far at SJU. Kids go to school to get their degrees and get careers, not to worship. You claim you have malice towards me. Is that the Catholic way sir? Funny how religious people pride themselves in "loving thy neighbor" and never act that way in reality. Saying that there is no place for non-religious people at a Catholic school is no different than saying there is no place for blacks at a white school. 50 years from now do you want to be seen as the one who was accepting or intolerant? College is the last place religion is relevant...it's the place where kids become adults and begin to think for themselves, thinking new ideas, hearing alternatives from others, debating, rationalizing, critical-thinking...college is the polar opposite of religion. How ironic that I was in a previously Catholic school when I threw my faith out the window. Did you know that there's a positive correlation with well-educated people and non-belief?

 

[LINY89]

 It just disgusts me to see how ignorant some people can be claiming that non-religious people should not be let into SJU. It's so deliberately and obviously stupid after seeing the same kind of intolerance against blacks with Jim Crow laws, and gays. It's hard to argue with people much older than me in their 40's and 50's+ who are so set in their ways after being raised in an age where religion went unchallenged and was considered very important. Let me ask you guys a question...morally speaking, what can someone religious do that an atheist can't? I'd be shocked to get an answer to that one.

 

[beast of the east]

As to your last comments, I feel that giving is transformational. Bruce Beck, who one year decided to attend the Bread and Life Thanksgiving dinner was so moved, that now both he and his entire family volunteer. I think it is part of the St. John's basketball tradition to get players involved in community service. Of course, if you are an athest, you can conclude it's jsut a social mission, and without reminding all volunteers that the Gospels call us to share God's love in all ways with those less fortunate, then it becomes just another cheese truck.

 

If Bruce Beck and his family regularly volunteer at B&L, that's admirable.

But since Bruce is Jewish, do you believe he is still capable of showing compassion to his fellow man even if he rejects Christ's divinity?

 

Do you really think that a Christian believes that ONLY a Christian is capable of being reverent to God, and only a Christian is capable of compassion or goodness? Bruce Beck is Jewish, but has been greatly moved by the good work being done at Bread and Life by the University. Do you think that any non-Christian receiving charity from SJU or Catholic Charities for that matter, is incapable of being grateful for their goodness. The only difference on the receiving end is that if you are Christian, you would recognize their the charity being provided for you is provided out of love for God. if you aren't religious, you see the giving as simply coming from humanitarian concerns.

 

[beast of the east]

 It just disgusts me to see how ignorant some people can be claiming that non-religious people should not be let into SJU. It's so deliberately and obviously stupid after seeing the same kind of intolerance against blacks with Jim Crow laws, and gays. It's hard to argue with people much older than me in their 40's and 50's+ who are so set in their ways after being raised in an age where religion went unchallenged and was considered very important. Let me ask you guys a question...morally speaking, what can someone religious do that an atheist can't? I'd be shocked to get an answer to that one.

 

That isn't the point, and I have difficulty believing how an intelligent person could come to that conclusion. The point is that by accepting a predominantly non-Catholic student population, the school has also toned down their religious. Could you imagine a Yeshiva gradually becoming primarily non-Jewish?

Religion was NOT unchallenged by people in their 40s and 50s. Remember, Vatican II happened in the 60s, and beginning in the 60s, people questioned everything. People in their 20s today have not rejected religion after some deep study or reflection on Scripture, or some revelation that disproved God's existence. The problem is much more complex than that, and it's a combination of things. I think the sex scandal had deeply scarred the laity, causing some to reject the church in all ways. I also believe that the increasing number of divorces have contributed to parents not bringing up their children in the faith, attending mass, and participating in sacramental life. Also , our media has glorified behaviors that essentially remove any sense of personal or social resonsbility - drunkenness, promiscuity, narcissism - a Jersey Shore mentality.

Your question, what can someone religious do that an atheist can't? There is an answer to this, that could not satisfy you in the amount of space it would take to present to you, and the time it would take for you to reflect on its content.

A religious person tries to understand what God is asking of them, and tries to live his life according to the will of God. A Christian believes that all goodness comes from God. Mother Theresa once described her life as being a pencil in God's hand. Pope John Paul II, who I met, once said that all goodness on earth is done at the urging of the Holy SPirit, whether the person is religious or not, or understands that or not.

An atheist can do accomplish any good thing a religious person can, but a religious person will believe that they are doing these things to share God's love.

 

[beast of the east]

Honestly, who cares anyway? My generation (I'm 23) does not care about religion. If someone writes down they are catholic, it doesn't mean they care about it or that they go to church. I'd say 75% of people my age either don't care at all about religion or can't stand it. Even when people my age go to church, it's often just because it's their cousin's communion or something where the family dragged them there. Almost no one cares anymore what colleges are what religion. I go to SJU and I am the least religious person you can meet. We SHOULD be a secular nation. 

 

I would also suggest that when you get married, you refuse to get married in a church, when you have children, you don't baptize them, when you are mortally ill, do not have someone call for a priest, and refuse to be laid to rest in a religious cemetary. My guess is that you will perform some or all of these functions, which will be hypocritical. You certainly has a human right, and even if you aren't religious, a God-given right (in the truest sense) to reject any or all of religion. Some very learned theologians would describe your circumstance as literally what hell is, the self imposed separation from the love of God. The problem with your position, is that there is an underlying tone that because you aren't religious, and reject the notion of God and Christ, is that's what everyone does, and should do. Those of us who believe in Catholic education believe that Catholic Univerisities are participating in the secularization of society by becoming coroporate entities engaging in the best way to increase revenues, maximize profits, and produce a healthy balance sheet, all the while ignoring their critical role in the formation of faith for young adults.

 

All those things you mentioned do not require being religious to take part in. Religion is nothing but a cultural phenomenon...if you were born in Iraq you would follow Islam. If you were born in Israel you would follow Judaism. If you were born in America you would follow Christianity. Therefore, getting married in a church, or baptizing a child, etc. is just a sort of rite of passage...they are just symbolic cultural gestures. I have a cross on my arm with my father's initials on it...not because I'm religious...it's symbolic. You don't have to devoutly believe in everything you take a part of. The only reason secular people still baptize their children, have their kids communions, etc. is because they don't want to ruffle feathers within the family and stir the pot claiming to be non-religious. It's much easier to just go with the flow instead of debating relatives and getting confrontational. If there was no fear of backlash and negative labeling, then I guarantee you people would stop this nonsense. Religion should be taught as a cultural phenomenon in this country that has affected our history, but NOT use intelligent design as a viable explanation for how we came to be as there is 0 evidence of such. Religion is stagnant...there is no progression. Religion hinders and sometimes prevents free thought. It gives someone the audacity to claim they know all the answers using a god of the gaps theory when in fact they have no better idea than anyone else. Hate to break it to you, but my generation is OVERWHELMINGLY non-religious with many of those adamantly anti-religion. Being an atheist today is akin to being gay in the past...give it 50 years and atheists will come out of the closet more and people will treat them normally instead of as if they were devils.

 

The problem with your position is that as an atheist you try to convince the rest of the world that your position is correct. I would say you have no place at a Catholic University since you've already rejected every relgious tenet of the school. To think that a baptism, or Eucharist is a cultural phenomenon that everyone in yur generation paticipates in while rejecting any religious importance is the height of hypocrisy. I'm sure then that at a funeral, you go up to receive communion, not as a cultural phenomenom, but as a sign to others that you are a good boy. If you are anti-religion, I'm sorry, but you've made your mind up and I would really prefer that a seat is taken in Catholic University by someone who wants to grow in faith. There are plenty of schools that are non-religious, and while i have malice towards you, feel that Catholic education is for those Catholics and Christians that have some interest in growing academically and spiritually.

 

The atheist position is NOT to gain membership...it's to encourage rational thought, critical-thinking, and show people that science is FACT. It's completely the opposite. Religious people literally knock on your door with fliers, nearly demand donations almost as if they were for indulgences like in the Martin Luther days, stand on corners in every city in America with microphones, and come up to you at LIRR stations with pamphlets about how Jesus is the only way. You could not be more wrong in your first few statements. Atheists have no doctrine, therefore it's not something where members are sought out. People are encouraged to come out of the closet who are on the fence about god, not to convert already religious people. I have no place at a Catholic University? Excuse me sir, but is that not what whites in the south said to blacks back in the day? This country is deeply religious overall from the founding of the nation to present, so Catholic schools are everywhere. It's not like there's some Atheist University people can go. Nearly every college these days has some kind of Catholic background but no one my age cares about that today...literally never even heard anyone speak of going to church in 4 years at Marist or 1 year so far at SJU. Kids go to school to get their degrees and get careers, not to worship. You claim you have malice towards me. Is that the Catholic way sir? Funny how religious people pride themselves in "loving thy neighbor" and never act that way in reality. Saying that there is no place for non-religious people at a Catholic school is no different than saying there is no place for blacks at a white school. 50 years from now do you want to be seen as the one who was accepting or intolerant? College is the last place religion is relevant...it's the place where kids become adults and begin to think for themselves, thinking new ideas, hearing alternatives from others, debating, rationalizing, critical-thinking...college is the polar opposite of religion. How ironic that I was in a previously Catholic school when I threw my faith out the window. Did you know that there's a positive correlation with well-educated people and non-belief?

 

My comment was mistyped. I have NO malice towards you. I do believe that if you are rejecting the Catholic part of CAtholic education, I would prefer the University accepts a less qualified student academically that wants to grow intellectually AND spritually by attending a Catholic University. The list of well educated, intellectual people who also believed in God is vast, so you cannot make an empirical argument based on intellect and faith. If you are so adamant against religion, why then would you choose a Catholic University? St. John's always knowingly accepted a smaller number of non-Christian students. Their pharamacy and law schools admitted substantial number of Jewish students as early as the 1930s and possibly before that. They were required to take theology and philosophy, but could take a JEwish tehology course instead of the New Testament requirement.

What the school doesn't realize is what you've stated - that without a large Catholic student population, St. John's, Marist, and other schools have become is exactly what you described - just like any other non-Catholic school. To those who believe in Catholic education, that is unacceptable.

 

[MainMan]

Do you really think that a Christian believes that ONLY a Christian is capable of being reverent to God, and only a Christian is capable of compassion or goodness? Bruce Beck is Jewish, but has been greatly moved by the good work being done at Bread and Life by the University. Do you think that any non-Christian receiving charity from SJU or Catholic Charities for that matter, is incapable of being grateful for their goodness. The only difference on the receiving end is that if you are Christian, you would recognize their the charity being provided for you is provided out of love for God. if you aren't religious, you see the giving as simply coming from humanitarian concerns.

 

Thank you. This gets back to the larger point.

If a non-believer like Beck can actively participate in arguably STJ's most noble pursuit and by doing so is living in a Christ-like fashion, why should the university care to which God he prays or doesn't pray?

 

[beast of the east]

Do you really think that a Christian believes that ONLY a Christian is capable of being reverent to God, and only a Christian is capable of compassion or goodness? Bruce Beck is Jewish, but has been greatly moved by the good work being done at Bread and Life by the University. Do you think that any non-Christian receiving charity from SJU or Catholic Charities for that matter, is incapable of being grateful for their goodness. The only difference on the receiving end is that if you are Christian, you would recognize their the charity being provided for you is provided out of love for God. if you aren't religious, you see the giving as simply coming from humanitarian concerns.

 

Thank you. This gets back to the larger point.

If a non-believer like Beck can actively participate in arguably STJ's most noble pursuit and by doing so is living in a Christ-like fashion, why should the university care to which God he prays or doesn't pray?

 

The University goes to great lengths to say they embrace Judeo-Christian values, but I don't think that being a Catholic University means exclusivity to a 100% Catholic student population. I DO think that in order to provide a Catholic education, that the overhwelming majority of students be Catholic, and that the remainder come to the school with an understanding that they are going to learn about Christianity, and that the schools mission is faith formation of its students. Beck saw the wonderful things going on at Bread and Life, understood it's religious and humanitarian significance and chose to participate, and was welcomed. My point to others on this thread is that if you come to SJU and all not only reject all monotheistic beliefs, not to mention Christian or Catholic, there are better schools for you, and better students to attend the school who are open to such learning. 

I hope you don't see it as a personal attack, because it isn't. Everyone is entitled to his belief. A key tenet of faith is that it is not imposed on you, but embraced. God gives man a free will, and it is up to man to respond, and not for anyone else to force him to respond or judge him for not responding.

 

[MainMan]

The University goes to great lengths to say they embrace Judeo-Christian values, but I don't think that being a Catholic University means exclusivity to a 100% Catholic student population. I DO think that in order to provide a Catholic education, that the overhwelming majority of students be Catholic, and that the remainder come to the school with an understanding that they are going to learn about Christianity, and that the schools mission is faith formation of its students. Beck saw the wonderful things going on at Bread and Life, understood it's religious and humanitarian significance and chose to participate, and was welcomed. My point to others on this thread is that if you come to SJU and all not only reject all monotheistic beliefs, not to mention Christian or Catholic, there are better schools for you, and better students to attend the school who are open to such learning. 

I hope you don't see it as a personal attack, because it isn't. Everyone is entitled to his belief. A key tenet of faith is that it is not imposed on you, but embraced. God gives man a free will, and it is up to man to respond, and not for anyone else to force him to respond or judge him for not responding.

 

I agree with some of what you say, except I believe atheists contribute to the intellectual life at a Catholic University. Questioning faith, divinity and other tenets of the religion often creates a rigorous discussion that has always been central to academic and spiritual pursuit. 

 

[tom in salem]

Do you really think that a Christian believes that ONLY a Christian is capable of being reverent to God, and only a Christian is capable of compassion or goodness? Bruce Beck is Jewish, but has been greatly moved by the good work being done at Bread and Life by the University. Do you think that any non-Christian receiving charity from SJU or Catholic Charities for that matter, is incapable of being grateful for their goodness. The only difference on the receiving end is that if you are Christian, you would recognize their the charity being provided for you is provided out of love for God. if you aren't religious, you see the giving as simply coming from humanitarian concerns.

 

Thank you. This gets back to the larger point.

If a non-believer like Beck can actively participate in arguably STJ's most noble pursuit and by doing so is living in a Christ-like fashion, why should the university care to which God he prays or doesn't pray?

 

The University goes to great lengths to say they embrace Judeo-Christian values, but I don't think that being a Catholic University means exclusivity to a 100% Catholic student population. I DO think that in order to provide a Catholic education, that the overhwelming majority of students be Catholic, and that the remainder come to the school with an understanding that they are going to learn about Christianity, and that the schools mission is faith formation of its students. Beck saw the wonderful things going on at Bread and Life,
understood it's religious and humanitarian significance and chose to participate, and was welcomed. My point to others on this thread is that if you come to SJU and all not only reject all monotheistic beliefs, not to mention Christian or Catholic, there are better schools for you, and better students to attend the school who are open to such learning. 

I hope you don't see it as a personal attack, because it isn't. Everyone is entitled to his belief. A key tenet of faith is that it is not imposed on you, but embraced. God gives man a free will, and it is up to man to respond, and not for anyone else to force him to respond or judge him for not responding.

 




A key tenet of faith is that it is not imposed on you, but embraced. .[/quote]


You didn't grow up in my neighborhood.
We were for the most part children of Irish immigrants and believe me, our faith was imposed on us.
Mandatory Catholic school, altar boys, choir boys, daily mass, stations of the cross every Thursday, I could go on ad nauseum.
Interesting that as we enjoy life in our 60's, almost none of us are practicing Catholics.
But you know something?
We're still very good, giving, caring people.
As are our children and grand kids.