Butler Game
- Thread starter NYCRedmen
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Class of 72
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With Branch it is a combination of a few negatives. Yes, he lacks scoring confidence but he cannot create his own shots like a Sterling Gibbs. He has desire but is too lanky to defend small quick guards. The kid is just not a scorer. Greene is very similar in that he is a slow defender but has all the confidence in the world to take shots after holding the ball too long and slowing the offense. By comparison, the Seton Hall guards (Whitehead, Gibbs and Carrington) are constantly on the attack and all can shoot. Losing Thomas and Adonis were killers but losing Jordan will be disastrous since all opponents need to do is focus on Harrison and gamble that Branch and Greene will be non factors.
All I can say is goodbye ranking and hello bubble.
beast of the east
Active member
I know that the outlook going forward without Jordan does not look good, but yesterday's game was a really great college game. I think Butler played almost flawlessly down the stretch, and unlike last season, we didn't cave either. Dunham had a huge game, and made a dagger three when Harrison slipped. They made all of their big FT's down the stretch. Yes, having an able bodied Jordan would have made a difference, but in no way did we play badly.
One thing to consider is that our "suffocating" defense against lesser opponents will not have the same effect in BE contests. Neither Seton Hall nor Butler was rattled by our pressure and shook it off quite easily. And that is with or without Jordan.
One thing to consider is that our "suffocating" defense against lesser opponents will not have the same effect in BE contests. Neither Seton Hall nor Butler was rattled by our pressure and shook it off quite easily. And that is with or without Jordan.
Willie Shaw was a top 100 recruit. So was Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, Eric King and Abe Keita, Jarivs also got Elijiah Ingraham and Omar Cook, both MCAAs. Plus Marcus Hatten, Darryl Hill and Lamont Hamilton. Pretty sure he also got commits from Ced Jackson and Rodney epperson, amongst others. Say what you want about Jarivs, like every other coach he was able to bring in highly ranked recruits
I watched Butler lose to Nova and from that game I could tell that the Dunham shots that weren't falling for him then would fall when he played us. Just the type of player that hurts us. Nova forced him into many more difficult shots than we did. Plus a couple of his misses against Nova were in and out, that stayed in against us.
I have a hard time accepting this premise that he's "just the type of player that hurts us". Clearly he hurt us yesterday and didn't miss, even when we stayed with him. Last year, he didn't hurt us at all scoring 13 in each game and shooting about 40%. I think the difference is that he was on yesterday, and I think our defense has been slow, lacking energy, and lacking focus this week. If we don't bring our A game in terms of energy and focus, we'll have more nights like this.
I'm going to try a different approach heading into the Garden for Tuesday's game, I'm going to completely ignore what's transpired over the last few days and believe on pure blind faith that we will compete and win this game vs. Nova. I want these guys to succeed and I think they deserve our support, regardless of the lousy position they find themselves in, in terms of a thin rotation. They are still 11-3 and sit at 20th in the RPI. While they may be trending downward this week, as D'Lo said, there are things within their control that they can fix. A little motion on offense is one of them and better ball movement, combined with the same dedication on defense that they played with in the first 12 games (no more layup clinics like Butler ran in the 2nd half yesterday).
I was as frustrated as anyone watching that game yesterday, much of which came from issues that had less to do with the game itself, and instead with all the other nonsense that contributed to our lack of depth, or lack of trying to continue to establish depth. So, similar to the approach in a playoff series, I'm not getting too low following these losses (I should have remembered not to get too high as we were racking up wins), and will jump right back in to support our team. This group has worked hard and deserves it, and who knows, maybe they'll surprise us again this year like they did prior to the start of BE play. We are St. John's !!,
I was as frustrated as anyone watching that game yesterday, much of which came from issues that had less to do with the game itself, and instead with all the other nonsense that contributed to our lack of depth, or lack of trying to continue to establish depth. So, similar to the approach in a playoff series, I'm not getting too low following these losses (I should have remembered not to get too high as we were racking up wins), and will jump right back in to support our team. This group has worked hard and deserves it, and who knows, maybe they'll surprise us again this year like they did prior to the start of BE play. We are St. John's !!,
With the guards now forced to play so many minutes, over time they will tire and be less effective defensively closing & helping out in all probability. I guess Felix,when healthy, will have to play a fair amount of time. Our main asset is scrappy defense. We are just running out of players to maximize that & force TOs & easy buckets. Pair that with limited scoring ability to complement D'Lo & the results seem obvious.
beast of the east
Active member
Just as an aside, late in the game there was a long TV timeout. I turned to my son, and said, this is great for our guys. They could really use the time to rest. Then I looked on the court, and there was the starting 5, standing around Lavin on the court, arms locked around each others shoulders, and looking fresh as daisies. For that reason, I don't ascribe to the tired legs theory on our late loss. They appear to all be superbly conditioned and capable of going 35 minutes or more.
After Dunham's 4th successful 3 pt shot, the announcers stated, and showed the corresponding clips, clearly illustrating that on 3 of the 4 successful shots, he was not pressured at all by a SJU player, and the 4th successful shot was completed against token, at best, pressure.
STJ11Redmen
Active member
Dom was sucking wind and cramping up toward the end. He's the only one who I saw signs of fatigue in.