Back to the Drawing Board.......

One of the first things Mullin must do is meet with the team and get all the returnees on board for next season.
Let's hope Simon and Heron return for another year. I think Ponds has already packed his bags.
 
Does everyone agree at least that we need some new assistant(s) for next year?

If Mullin decides to stay, which it seems he will, then the school won't stop him from coming back. I do however think new assistant changes are 100% necessary.

I get that Matt may leave regardless, but that wasn't what I had in mind...
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=333357][quote="Noonan " post=333341][quote="Beast of the East" post=333306][quote="Noonan " post=333300]The only thing that will AD Cragg out of this mess is Mike Repole’s $$$$$$$$$.

Expect more of the same next year.
(Probably worse)[/quote]

Hope not. To my knowledge, Repole is either not present at all or barely present.

I understand now why Paul closed this site to new users for about two years during the Norm years.[/quote]

I’m actually not a new user, just don’t post often. I’m actually a season ticket holder, also attend any other metro area games ( at Seton Hall, Rutgers, Legend Classic this year). If you don’t think his 2 year 2 million dollar contract isn’t the the elephant in the room you’re kidding yourself. My 35 years of being a SJU fan and 19 years of mismanagement and mediocrity tell me it will be status quo next year. It’s always comes down to the money at St. John’s .[/quote]

If you know anything, you'd know that Repole is not a major benefactor. Your impressions of the school are pretty outdated. The campus has been beautified with many new buildings, student fieldhouse, chapel, fountains, and a beautiful remake of the Business school. The school went deep for Lavin and Mullin in terms of money, and the ROI has not been what's expected. There are upgrades in a ton of areas, and if you think this is the same old St. John's you are mistaken. Money is still carefully spent, mostly due to the fact that alumni mostly think giving is someone else's job while still having plenty to say about the school being backwards. Our BOT are among the most successful people in NYC metro and give their time and treasure to the school. As you probably are aware, throwing money at anything, including a basketball program isn't a sure fire way to make it successful.[/quote]

So buying out a coach who has underperformed and hasn’t delivered and hiring an actual experienced winning basketball coach is “throwing money” at a problem. Ok lmao.

I’m sure the St Johns relationship with Body Armour sports drink has nothing to do with MR. Anyway enjoy the offseason. I’m sure MO will enjoy his offseason in CA as Cooley is grinding the AAU circuit.
 
[quote="Moose" post=333356]

When next year's roster starts coming together in the next few weeks doing nothing might be a big mistake. If there was ever a time for a re-boot it is likely next year.[/quote]

Agree with this. Coaching decisions aren't just predicated upon what a coach has or hasn't accomplished to that point. There is projection involved, both in terms of near term roster prospects and longer term program upside/downside. Not to mention who looks to be available/interested at a given time. Waiting one more year is almost always the more conservative play, but not always the right one in the best interest of the program.

My guess is the most probable course is Cragg doesn't want to move on from a program legend less than a year on the job (and let's set aside the merits of that). But at same time he takes critical look at program, sees the need, and mandates not one but two changes on staff. If Matt leaves maybe Mullin can save one of his buddies. If not one would hope Cragg has power to effectuate obvious change. Nothing against either of them, but this is supposed to be high-major D1 basketball.

Having a complete, experienced, and dynamic staff is the most basic of pre-requisites at this level, and if you're going to have a staff composition that is something other than that then you need to win enough to justify it. I don't think that's been the case here, not to mention simply not maximizing resources which might be the more important point.

Coming back with the exact same staff composition would raise questions about whether any decision makers have influence, and if they do have influence what they are watching/evaluating IMO.
 
[quote="Knight" post=332987]What's the plan?[/quote]
Now I know how brooklyn Dodger fans felt
Wait till next year
 
[quote="Brian W." post=333337][quote="fordham96" post=333333][quote="Brian W." post=333325][quote="fordham96" post=333303]Vaccaro piece. Again the point needs to be made, any coach whose last name was NOT Mullin and had a 4 year mediocre/bad run like he has had at SJU would be firmly on the hot seat. He is being saved by his last name make no mistake about it.

https://nypost.com/2019/03/21/the-doubters-were-right-st-johns-didnt-belong/

And what of Mullin himself? It is all but impossible to imagine St. John’s even considering turning up the griddle under his coaching seat, even if this team didn’t meet anyone’s expectations. Still, any other coach with any other name would absolutely see the pressure on him ratcheted up after this team flamed out as it did, with a new athletic director on board. And you also wonder how many years of fight Mullin has left in him.[/quote]

Does Vaccaro mention that any other coach would not be exposed to pro-team pressure like Mullin? And Mullin has improved every year. 21 wins. An NCAA berth.
[/quote]

Come one with this nonsense. Improved every year?

Stop. Improved on himself, unfortunately that is a low standard.

He is 20-52 in League play. That is beyond horrible. He is 19-35 even if you remove the 1st year. That is terrible. 12 of his 21 wins this year were in a very soft non-conference. They played 2 non-conference teams that ended up in the NCAA/NIT. Duke and VCU. They lost by 30 to Duke and beat VCU by 1 in OT in Brooklyn. Everything else was a better shade of garbage.

And going from 7 league wins in year 2 to 4 league wins in year 3 is not improvement even by your standard. So how do you explain that.

4 years and had to play on the Wednesday of BE Tourney week all 4 times. Last 3 BE Tourney losses by a combined 101 points. Say that with me, lost 3 combined league games by 101 points....

You call that improving,,,sorry that is a crock.[/quote]

All your doing is avoiding the larger point I was trying to make. Anyone can cherry pick stats from wiki or espn.

Heres a few: 21 wins, ncaa berth, all big east first team player, big east defensive player of the year...

What giant leap backwards.

Whatever. All you guys want to do is depose a coach every 4 years. That's your goal now. It isn't even really to win, it's all about deposing a coach. As if we aren't up against a corporate juggernaut of ESPN-ACC-Disney and trying to eek out a presence on a drastically changed landscape.

You all need to realize that what we have achieved is remarkable under the current altered conditions in College BB.[/quote]

They gave Robert's 7 years
 
[quote="Adam" post=333372]Does everyone agree at least that we need some new assistant(s) for next year?

If Mullin decides to stay, which it seems he will, then the school won't stop him from coming back. I do however think new assistant changes are 100% necessary.

I get that Matt may leave regardless, but that wasn't what I had in mind...[/quote]

Who was the assistant for Lavin who came from the west coast. Cant recall his name but he was the best strategist I have seen since Lobalbo
 
[quote="dee" post=333385][quote="Adam" post=333372]Does everyone agree at least that we need some new assistant(s) for next year?

If Mullin decides to stay, which it seems he will, then the school won't stop him from coming back. I do however think new assistant changes are 100% necessary.

I get that Matt may leave regardless, but that wasn't what I had in mind...[/quote]

Who was the assistant for Lavin who came from the west coast. Cant recall his name but he was the best strategist I have seen since Lobalbo[/quote]

Mike Dunlap.
 
[quote="Adam" post=333372]Does everyone agree at least that we need some new assistant(s) for next year?

If Mullin decides to stay, which it seems he will, then the school won't stop him from coming back. I do however think new assistant changes are 100% necessary.

I get that Matt may leave regardless, but that wasn't what I had in mind...[/quote]

Agreed. Mullin needs some help. But then again we all said the same thing about Lavin, who had a hall of fame coach on his sideline. We also need to examine the external factors that inhibit our success. This includes corporate media pressure, housing, quality of campus life, fanbase, ticket pricing, etc.
 
[quote="Brian W." post=333387][quote="Adam" post=333372]Does everyone agree at least that we need some new assistant(s) for next year?

If Mullin decides to stay, which it seems he will, then the school won't stop him from coming back. I do however think new assistant changes are 100% necessary.

I get that Matt may leave regardless, but that wasn't what I had in mind...[/quote]

Agreed. Mullin needs some help. But then again we all said the same thing about Lavin, who had a hall of fame coach on his sideline. We also need to examine the external factors that inhibit our success. This includes corporate media pressure, housing, quality of campus life, fanbase, ticket pricing, etc.[/quote]

The school has other issues no doubt, but end of the day we have not lived up to our pre-season expectations for several years now. Housing, ticket pricing, etc have nothing to do with that. This is all about properly coaching the group of talent we already have.
 
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If Cragg can't fire Mullin because of the money, why not just have Cragg fire St. Jean and Richmond. Maybe it will kill three birds with two stones.
 
[quote="Adam" post=333389][quote="Brian W." post=333387][quote="Adam" post=333372]Does everyone agree at least that we need some new assistant(s) for next year?

If Mullin decides to stay, which it seems he will, then the school won't stop him from coming back. I do however think new assistant changes are 100% necessary.

I get that Matt may leave regardless, but that wasn't what I had in mind...[/quote]

Agreed. Mullin needs some help. But then again we all said the same thing about Lavin, who had a hall of fame coach on his sideline. We also need to examine the external factors that inhibit our success. This includes corporate media pressure, housing, quality of campus life, fanbase, ticket pricing, etc.[/quote]

The school has other issues no doubt, but end of the day we have not lived up to our pre-season expectations for several years now. Housing, ticket pricing, etc have nothing to do with that. This is all about properly coaching the group of talent we already have.[/quote]

Agree, Adam. That other stuff is secondary or tertiary. It's also noise, used as a means to deflect away from the more logical issue at hand.
 
[quote="SJU11Redmen" post=333390]If Cragg can't fire Mullin because of the money, why not just have Cragg fire St. Jean and Richmond. Maybe it will kill three birds with two stones.[/quote]

Short answer is because that is why you hire a HC to make those decisions. If you don't like his staff and he disagrees with you and wants yo keep them two choices:
1) let him coach with the people he says he wants or
2) fire him and move on.

Look Cragg should make it clear Coach would be better off with some new staff blood but actually firing assistants without Chris' approval is a disaster. If you are that dissatisfied then fire entire staff and move on.
 
[quote="Moose" post=333356][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=333353][quote="Adam" post=333343][quote="DoodyNY33" post=333339]Here's my question. Let's say SJU decides to keep Mullin and the following things occur (all likely):
1. Ponds leaves
2. Heron leaves
3. Tabor decommits
4. Matt A takes ass't job with Nebraska

Let's be perfectly honest with ourselves. SJU will be a bottom feeder in the Big East next year if that were to occur. Now, Mullin is entering the last year of his 6 year contract. They have to either extend him or fire him. My point is, if we are fully expecting them to take another step back next year, then why even keep him for 2019-'20. You are just delaying the inevitable for a year.[/quote]

He has 2 years remaining, so don't think they need to extend him yet.

I agree with you that next year could be really rough.[/quote]

They'll need to extend him or go a different route after next year, no need to do anything now.[/quote]

When next year's roster starts coming together in the next few weeks doing nothing might be a big mistake. If there was ever a time for a re-boot it is likely next year.[/quote]

Regardless of my view that I support CM returning IF the Staff is overhauled, I’d be shocked if St. John’s eats Mullin’s deal.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=333353][quote="Adam" post=333343][quote="DoodyNY33" post=333339]Here's my question. Let's say SJU decides to keep Mullin and the following things occur (all likely):
1. Ponds leaves
2. Heron leaves
3. Tabor decommits
4. Matt A takes ass't job with Nebraska

Let's be perfectly honest with ourselves. SJU will be a bottom feeder in the Big East next year if that were to occur. Now, Mullin is entering the last year of his 6 year contract. They have to either extend him or fire him. My point is, if we are fully expecting them to take another step back next year, then why even keep him for 2019-'20. You are just delaying the inevitable for a year.[/quote]

He has 2 years remaining, so don't think they need to extend him yet.

I agree with you that next year could be really rough.[/quote]

They'll need to extend him or go a different route after next year, no need to do anything now.[/quote]

If they extend him, I will become an ex fan after 55 years!
 
Cragg has to sit down with the staff and define there responsibilities, game coaching, player development, practice and especially recruiting (both HS & Transfers).
 
[quote="Knight" post=333408]Cragg has to sit down with the staff and define there responsibilities, game coaching, player development, practice and especially recruiting (both HS & Transfers).[/quote]

I think Cragg realizes the Staff has to be changed, not talked to.
He’ll likely sit down with Mullin and discuss what must be done.
I have no clue how Mullin will react.
Guys on this Board cite how ‘stubborn’ and ‘loyal’ Mullin is.
So, since I doubt the school will eat Mullin’s deal, IF Chris resists Cragg’s view that things must change. Chris and his staff return ‘intact’.
That would be the worst case scenario in my view and we should brace for a bad 2019-20.
We shall see.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=333414][quote="Knight" post=333408]Cragg has to sit down with the staff and define there responsibilities, game coaching, player development, practice and especially recruiting (both HS & Transfers).[/quote]

I think Cragg realizes the Staff has to be changed, not talked to.
He’ll likely sit down with Mullin and discuss what must be done.
I have no clue how Mullin will react.
Guys on this Board cite how ‘stubborn’ and ‘loyal’ Mullin is.
So, since I doubt the school will eat Mullin’s deal, IF Chris resists Cragg’s view that things must change. Chris and his staff return ‘intact’.
That would be the worst case scenario in my view and we should brace for a bad 2019-20.
We shall see.[/quote]

This. People generally don't change, so talking to them isn't going to fix anything. They've been given 4 years, that's more than enough.

Strike 1: Awful end to the season (0-3 against mediocre competition)
Strike 2: Awful BET (1-1 with a win over #10 DePaul and a blowout loss)
Strike 3: Awful NCAA (0-1 in a complete stinker)

Our worst two games of the season were the LAST two we just played. Things just aren't working. We can't overlook how bad the ending to our season was. Teams now know how to beat us and we can't move on without changes.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=333414][quote="Knight" post=333408]Cragg has to sit down with the staff and define there responsibilities, game coaching, player development, practice and especially recruiting (both HS & Transfers).[/quote]

I think Cragg realizes the Staff has to be changed, not talked to.
He’ll likely sit down with Mullin and discuss what must be done.
I have no clue how Mullin will react.
Guys on this Board cite how ‘stubborn’ and ‘loyal’ Mullin is.
So, since I doubt the school will eat Mullin’s deal, IF Chris resists Cragg’s view that things must change. Chris and his staff return ‘intact’.
That would be the worst case scenario in my view and we should brace for a bad 2019-20.
We shall see.[/quote]
Head coaches that resist mandated changes to staff get let go at least how they do it when football coach is told to change coordinators. Some coaches elect to make the changes some prefer to go down with the ship.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=333425][quote="Chicago Days" post=333414][quote="Knight" post=333408]Cragg has to sit down with the staff and define there responsibilities, game coaching, player development, practice and especially recruiting (both HS & Transfers).[/quote]

I think Cragg realizes the Staff has to be changed, not talked to.
He’ll likely sit down with Mullin and discuss what must be done.
I have no clue how Mullin will react.
Guys on this Board cite how ‘stubborn’ and ‘loyal’ Mullin is.
So, since I doubt the school will eat Mullin’s deal, IF Chris resists Cragg’s view that things must change. Chris and his staff return ‘intact’.
That would be the worst case scenario in my view and we should brace for a bad 2019-20.
We shall see.[/quote]
Head coaches that resist mandated changes to staff get let go at least how they do it when football coach is told to change coordinators. Some coaches elect to make the changes some prefer to go down with the ship.[/quote]

Agree Bama, that’s the way it’s done at most high major schools, but We Are St. John’s!
Lol.
 
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