Astros

[quote="Spocky Ramone" post=372314][quote="CMA TIME" post=372313][quote="Beast of the East" post=372309][quote="CMA TIME" post=372298]Anyone caught cheating should get a lifetime ban, even first defenders.[/quote]

Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.

Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.

Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]

Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences[/quote]

I don't see how anyone can read this article and mount any serious defense at all for putting that POS into the HOF.

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...responds-to-sports-illustrated-push-for-rose/[/URL]


Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

"Dowd collected gambling ledgers, bank and phone records and court documents. He took depositions from Rose’s friends who placed bets for him, from one of his bookies, from Rose himself. He found that Rose was betting five to 10 games a day, every day, in basketball, football, hockey and baseball, at about $2,000 a game. In one month, Rose lost more than $67,000, and he was deeply in debt to the bookies, including $200,000 in the hole at one point to a Staten Island bookie linked to the Mafia. He refused to pay substantial debts to his bookies at various times, witnesses told Dowd, and that can get a guy in a heap of trouble."
 
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[quote="Spocky Ramone" post=372332][quote="mjmaherjr" post=372223]Guess I can feel good about my mets sucking in that wont have to worry about these accusations[/quote]
GUESS AGAIN! You should have known better than to make a statement like this! You should have know it was only a matter of time before the Mets, through their own ineptitude, would become embroiled in this mess! For shame! Shame!

https://nypost.com/2020/01/14/lying-carlos-beltran-must-come-clean-in-astros-cheating-scandal/[/quote]

I really feel for Met fans in this situation. They've had nothing to do with the Astros or Red Sox cheating scandals but they are going to be dragged along for the ride so long as they continue to do nothing on the Beltran front.

Since he was hired 2 weeks before the scandal broke, it's perfectly plausible that the Mets never asked him about all of this. So run him out there today, have him apologize and take questions. Then put it in the rearview mirror and focus on the upcoming season.
 
The only way Beltran should get fired is if he lied to the Mets about his involvement.According to MLB he was one of the most forthright during the investigation. He received no discipline from MLB. He was not the Manager of Houston. He could not set up a camera. Maybe he suggested it (no idea if he did) but he can’t authorize anything. Um, I don’t think he was the only player on Houston receiving signals. We suspending Altuve? Correa?It was up to the Houston organization to authorize any of it. The Astros had responsibilty to adhere to and apply MLB rules.
All this being said I as a Mets fan never wanted him for Manager so it doesn’t bother me at all. How hard would it be to replace an inexperienced Manager?
All the other stuff from some people in the media is just fake outrage. Baseball has long put up with all kinds of miscreants. None of these guys are choir boys, some just got caught.
 
I thought that some of the early reports had Beltran very involved in the cheating scheme.
 
[quote="sjc88" post=372351]The only way Beltran should get fired is if he lied to the Mets about his involvement.According to MLB he was one of the most forthright during the investigation. He received no discipline from MLB. He was not the Manager of Houston. [/quote]

I like everything that's been said about Beltran, in terms of what he could bring to the table as manager. I think he may be a fine manager.

That being said, just because he is no longer employed by the Astros, does not mean that he should be free of punishment because he was complicit in a scheme that seriously undermined the integrity of baseball. I'd be much more comfortable if Beltran had stood up against it, or resigned his position because it disgusted him to cheat. He went along with it, and everyone on Houston's coaching staff should face suspensions from MLB as a result.

This by all every measure was an attempt to change the outcomes of games by cheating, to know what the opponent was going to do that by the standards of the game is confidential.

When this crap infects college basketball, especially in recruiting, it often goes to the highest levels and most successful programs. It sickens me that it makes it double hard for programs to play fairly and compete on a national level.

Perhaps Beltran shouldn't face the same punishment but a 3 or 6 month suspension would put others on notice that MLB is serious about the integrity of the game.
 
The hypocrisy I am hearing about the so called “integrity” of baseball is laughable.

I could go on about all the steroid abusers who cheated. We all know the names. Many were gleefully accepted in this very city as heroes and champions. Many ducked, lied and never admitted guilt. Some went before Congress and well, lied. One guy, one of the admitted cheaters is a revered analyst on Sunday Night Baseball. We could talk for hours about guys who abused woman and were “warmly” received (Reyes) back in town as if nothing had happened. One is pitching for the Mets right now (Familia) and another cross town (German) is serving a suspension right now. We could go on. Yet, I hear words from the fiery mob about how “tainted” Beltran is.

Simple question. If the Astros turned around and said we want to offer you Jose Altuve (known tainted cheater) for a couple of prospects or Mookie Betts (known tainted cheater) to the Mets for Matz and a couple of prospects you think we will remain morally indignant? Whom do you think was standing in the batters box using the stolen signs? Please. You would all be making out fake lineup cards inserting said player.

Finally what about JD Davis, Jake Marisnick and Gerrit Cole? All of them are involved by “knowing” and not saying a damn thing. They ALL benefitted and knew and participated in the cheating. Ex Astro Mike Fiers was the guy who brought the whole thing down. Why not one of our current boys? Willful blindness now an excuse?
 
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[quote="sjc88" post=372374]The hypocrisy I am hearing about the so called “integrity” of baseball is laughable.

I could go on about all the steroid abusers who cheated. We all know the names. Many were gleefully accepted in this very city as heroes and champions. Many ducked, lied and never admitted guilt. Some went before Congress and well, lied. One guy, one of the admitted cheaters is a revered analyst on Sunday Night Baseball. We could talk for hours about guys who abused woman and were “warmly” received (Reyes) back in town as if nothing had happened. One is pitching for the Mets right now (Familia) and another cross town (German) is serving a suspension right now. We could go on. Yet, I hear words from the fiery mob about how “tainted” Beltran is.

Simple question. If the Astros turned around and said we want to offer you Jose Altuve (known tainted cheater) for a couple of prospects or Mookie Betts (known tainted cheater) to the Mets for Matz and a couple of prospects you think we will remain morally indignant? Whom do you think was standing in the batters box using the stolen signs? Please. You would all be making out fake lineup cards inserting said player.

Finally what about JD Davis, Jake Marisnick and Gerrit Cole? All of them are involved by “knowing” and not saying a damn thing. They ALL benefitted and knew and participated in the cheating. Ex Astro Mike Fiers was the guy who brought the whole thing down. Why not one of our current boys? Willful blindness now an excuse?[/quote]

Every single person in this cheating scandal is culpable, including the players. In baseball there is gamesmanship - a runner at second can try to steal signs and relay them to a batter without being disciplined -but he can also be bushed back. If a batter turned around and stared at the catcher trying to pick up the signs, well a Juan Marichal - John Roseboro situation could ensue.

You are right about the steroid scandal - baseball turned a blind eye.

Cheating is cheating and if you are okay with it, then fine - for you.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=372375][quote="sjc88" post=372374]The hypocrisy I am hearing about the so called “integrity” of baseball is laughable.

I could go on about all the steroid abusers who cheated. We all know the names. Many were gleefully accepted in this very city as heroes and champions. Many ducked, lied and never admitted guilt. Some went before Congress and well, lied. One guy, one of the admitted cheaters is a revered analyst on Sunday Night Baseball. We could talk for hours about guys who abused woman and were “warmly” received (Reyes) back in town as if nothing had happened. One is pitching for the Mets right now (Familia) and another cross town (German) is serving a suspension right now. We could go on. Yet, I hear words from the fiery mob about how “tainted” Beltran is.

Simple question. If the Astros turned around and said we want to offer you Jose Altuve (known tainted cheater) for a couple of prospects or Mookie Betts (known tainted cheater) to the Mets for Matz and a couple of prospects you think we will remain morally indignant? Whom do you think was standing in the batters box using the stolen signs? Please. You would all be making out fake lineup cards inserting said player.

Finally what about JD Davis, Jake Marisnick and Gerrit Cole? All of them are involved by “knowing” and not saying a damn thing. They ALL benefitted and knew and participated in the cheating. Ex Astro Mike Fiers was the guy who brought the whole thing down. Why not one of our current boys? Willful blindness now an excuse?[/quote]

Every single person in this cheating scandal is culpable, including the players. In baseball there is gamesmanship - a runner at second can try to steal signs and relay them to a batter without being disciplined -but he can also be bushed back. If a batter turned around and stared at the catcher trying to pick up the signs, well a Juan Marichal - John Roseboro situation could ensue.

You are right about the steroid scandal - baseball turned a blind eye.

Cheating is cheating and if you are okay with it, then fine - for you.[/quote]

Beast, never said I am ok with it. Not sure if that’s what you got.If you are going to punish one then punish all. Including players. What we are getting is some inconsistent punishment and selective outrage. Like the the guy who feigns indignity until it’s pointed out it was him involved.
 
[quote="sjc88" post=372376][quote="Beast of the East" post=372375][quote="sjc88" post=372374]The hypocrisy I am hearing about the so called “integrity” of baseball is laughable.

I could go on about all the steroid abusers who cheated. We all know the names. Many were gleefully accepted in this very city as heroes and champions. Many ducked, lied and never admitted guilt. Some went before Congress and well, lied. One guy, one of the admitted cheaters is a revered analyst on Sunday Night Baseball. We could talk for hours about guys who abused woman and were “warmly” received (Reyes) back in town as if nothing had happened. One is pitching for the Mets right now (Familia) and another cross town (German) is serving a suspension right now. We could go on. Yet, I hear words from the fiery mob about how “tainted” Beltran is.

Simple question. If the Astros turned around and said we want to offer you Jose Altuve (known tainted cheater) for a couple of prospects or Mookie Betts (known tainted cheater) to the Mets for Matz and a couple of prospects you think we will remain morally indignant? Whom do you think was standing in the batters box using the stolen signs? Please. You would all be making out fake lineup cards inserting said player.

Finally what about JD Davis, Jake Marisnick and Gerrit Cole? All of them are involved by “knowing” and not saying a damn thing. They ALL benefitted and knew and participated in the cheating. Ex Astro Mike Fiers was the guy who brought the whole thing down. Why not one of our current boys? Willful blindness now an excuse?[/quote]

Every single person in this cheating scandal is culpable, including the players. In baseball there is gamesmanship - a runner at second can try to steal signs and relay them to a batter without being disciplined -but he can also be bushed back. If a batter turned around and stared at the catcher trying to pick up the signs, well a Juan Marichal - John Roseboro situation could ensue.

You are right about the steroid scandal - baseball turned a blind eye.

Cheating is cheating and if you are okay with it, then fine - for you.[/quote]

Beast, never said I am ok with it. Not sure if that’s what you got.If you are going to punish one then punish all. Including players. What we are getting is some inconsistent punishment and selective outrage. Like the the guy who feigns indignity until it’s pointed out it was him involved.[/quote]

Agree with you. Everyone who participated is culpable, but those who managed it and went along with it are most culpable.

Truth is MLB is most concerned with keeping the revenue stream going.
 
[quote="barbs20" post=372405]breaking news coming out at 5:30 on MLB tonight rumor is that it has to do with beltran[/quote]

nevermind lol
 
If the Mets fire Beltran he will be one of the most successful managers in team history finishing at .500 with a record of 0-0.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=372409]If the Mets fire Beltran he will be one of the most successful managers in team history finishing at .500 with a record of 0-0.[/quote]

I actually think 0-0 is considered 1.000.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=372411][quote="bamafan" post=372409]If the Mets fire Beltran he will be one of the most successful managers in team history finishing at .500 with a record of 0-0.[/quote]

I actually think 0-0 is considered 1.000.[/quote]

0 divided by zero is not 1.000
 
[quote="L J S A" post=372411][quote="bamafan" post=372409]If the Mets fire Beltran he will be one of the most successful managers in team history finishing at .500 with a record of 0-0.[/quote]


I actually think 0-0 is considered 1.000.[/quote]
It's actually .000 and I was going to put in a disclaimer to my original post because I knew it would be caught but though it would ruin the joke. Consider the joke ruined. Thanks to all who participated. :lol:
 
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