beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Knight" post=372207]I thought this was fair. I don't think the cheating changed the outcome.[/quote]
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Astros
- Thread starter Moose
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[quote="Knight" post=372207]I thought this was fair. I don't think the cheating changed the outcome.[/quote]
Really?
Go look at the offensive splits for home vs on the road inthe 2017 post season for Houston.
I don't have them in front of me, but it was reported months ago that they were absurd.
Altuwe hit almost .500 at home that postseason and something like .285 on the road.
Same for Springer & Correa.
Mccann hit .300 at home and .054 on the road.
ANY big leaguer can turn around a 100mph fastball if the know its coming. The whole idea of pitching at that level is to keep the hitters off balance and guessing on the speed/location of each pitch. If they know when a breaking ball is coming they can lay off it. If they know when a fastball is coming they can gear up for it.
Why to you suppose that pitchers and catchers change the signs up when there is a runner on second base? It's not because knowing what pitch is being thrown isn't a huge advantage to the hitter.
Really?
Go look at the offensive splits for home vs on the road inthe 2017 post season for Houston.
I don't have them in front of me, but it was reported months ago that they were absurd.
Altuwe hit almost .500 at home that postseason and something like .285 on the road.
Same for Springer & Correa.
Mccann hit .300 at home and .054 on the road.
ANY big leaguer can turn around a 100mph fastball if the know its coming. The whole idea of pitching at that level is to keep the hitters off balance and guessing on the speed/location of each pitch. If they know when a breaking ball is coming they can lay off it. If they know when a fastball is coming they can gear up for it.
Why to you suppose that pitchers and catchers change the signs up when there is a runner on second base? It's not because knowing what pitch is being thrown isn't a huge advantage to the hitter.
[quote="sjc88" post=372220]This could get more interesting.
Logan Morrison says he has first hand knowledge that Red Sox, Dodgers, Astros and Yankees have ALL used film to pick signs. Wonder what the Commish says about that accusation. Getting ugly.
[URL]https://www.nj.com/yankees/202...kees-minor-leaguer-rips-mlb-astros-probe.html[/URL][/quote]
Perhaps, and if any team (including the Yankees) did what Houston did then they should get hammered as well.
But what he's talking about is what the Yankees, Red Sox and a bunch of others were doing in 2016/17 when the video booths were installed for replay challenges. Many teams were using that feed to breakdown opponents signs and then relay them to the players on the bench so they could use them when they got on base. Only Houston has been identified as having communicated pitches to batters in real time.
I have no issues with teams stealing signs and arming their players with that info so they can use it in a game if they get to 2nd base. There's little difference between studying the film after the game and giving them that information for tomorrow's game vs giving them to it in the middle of a game to use IF they manage to get to 2nd base at some point hat day.
According to what's been reported so far, this is largely what the Red Sox and to a far lesser degree the Yankees, were doing at the time and why they were both fined in that postseason. The Yankees got fined for using the BP phone improperly. The Red Sox were caught communicating with Apple Watches.
That led to MLB banning the use of the video booth for such purposes beginning in 2018. Something Alex Corra ignored and will get hammered for ignoring.
Even so, arming your team with opposition information they can use IF they get on base is far far removed from telling the batter what pitch is coming next.
Logan Morrison says he has first hand knowledge that Red Sox, Dodgers, Astros and Yankees have ALL used film to pick signs. Wonder what the Commish says about that accusation. Getting ugly.
[URL]https://www.nj.com/yankees/202...kees-minor-leaguer-rips-mlb-astros-probe.html[/URL][/quote]
Perhaps, and if any team (including the Yankees) did what Houston did then they should get hammered as well.
But what he's talking about is what the Yankees, Red Sox and a bunch of others were doing in 2016/17 when the video booths were installed for replay challenges. Many teams were using that feed to breakdown opponents signs and then relay them to the players on the bench so they could use them when they got on base. Only Houston has been identified as having communicated pitches to batters in real time.
I have no issues with teams stealing signs and arming their players with that info so they can use it in a game if they get to 2nd base. There's little difference between studying the film after the game and giving them that information for tomorrow's game vs giving them to it in the middle of a game to use IF they manage to get to 2nd base at some point hat day.
According to what's been reported so far, this is largely what the Red Sox and to a far lesser degree the Yankees, were doing at the time and why they were both fined in that postseason. The Yankees got fined for using the BP phone improperly. The Red Sox were caught communicating with Apple Watches.
That led to MLB banning the use of the video booth for such purposes beginning in 2018. Something Alex Corra ignored and will get hammered for ignoring.
Even so, arming your team with opposition information they can use IF they get on base is far far removed from telling the batter what pitch is coming next.
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=372235][quote="sjc88" post=372220]This could get more interesting.
Logan Morrison says he has first hand knowledge that Red Sox, Dodgers, Astros and Yankees have ALL used film to pick signs. Wonder what the Commish says about that accusation. Getting ugly.
[URL]https://www.nj.com/yankees/202...kees-minor-leaguer-rips-mlb-astros-probe.html[/URL][/quote]
Perhaps, and if any team (including the Yankees) did what Houston did then they should get hammered as well.
But what he's talking about is what the Yankees, Red Sox and a bunch of others were doing in 2016/17 when the video booths were installed for replay challenges. Many teams were using that feed to breakdown opponents signs and then relay them to the players on the bench so they could use them when they got on base. Only Houston has been identified as having communicated pitches to batters in real time.
I have no issues with teams stealing signs and arming their players with that info so they can use it in a game if they get to 2nd base. There's little difference between studying the film after the game and giving them that information for tomorrow's game vs giving them to it in the middle of a game to use IF they manage to get to 2nd base at some point hat day.
According to what's been reported so far, this is largely what the Red Sox and to a far lesser degree the Yankees, were doing at the time and why they were both fined in that postseason. The Yankees got fined for using the BP phone improperly. The Red Sox were caught communicating with Apple Watches.
That led to MLB banning the use of the video booth for such purposes beginning in 2018. Something Alex Corra ignored and will get hammered for ignoring.
Even so, arming your team with opposition information they can use IF they get on base is far far removed from telling the batter what pitch is coming next.[/quote]
I think what he (Morrison) correctly was pointing out is that many questions still exist. It is not as easy as banging the Astros over the head. What about using technology to slice and steal signs? Whether you use that to pass information real time is only one question. Is that what the replay technology is for or does everyone just accept that is ok if it isn’t passed real time? Does everyone get the same access? The use of technology is Currently NOT to be used does that means even if you are not passing real time isn’t that still a violation? You probably can’t prevent it anyway since most teams probably analyze every pitch..
Just not as easy as saying it’s all Astros.
Logan Morrison says he has first hand knowledge that Red Sox, Dodgers, Astros and Yankees have ALL used film to pick signs. Wonder what the Commish says about that accusation. Getting ugly.
[URL]https://www.nj.com/yankees/202...kees-minor-leaguer-rips-mlb-astros-probe.html[/URL][/quote]
Perhaps, and if any team (including the Yankees) did what Houston did then they should get hammered as well.
But what he's talking about is what the Yankees, Red Sox and a bunch of others were doing in 2016/17 when the video booths were installed for replay challenges. Many teams were using that feed to breakdown opponents signs and then relay them to the players on the bench so they could use them when they got on base. Only Houston has been identified as having communicated pitches to batters in real time.
I have no issues with teams stealing signs and arming their players with that info so they can use it in a game if they get to 2nd base. There's little difference between studying the film after the game and giving them that information for tomorrow's game vs giving them to it in the middle of a game to use IF they manage to get to 2nd base at some point hat day.
According to what's been reported so far, this is largely what the Red Sox and to a far lesser degree the Yankees, were doing at the time and why they were both fined in that postseason. The Yankees got fined for using the BP phone improperly. The Red Sox were caught communicating with Apple Watches.
That led to MLB banning the use of the video booth for such purposes beginning in 2018. Something Alex Corra ignored and will get hammered for ignoring.
Even so, arming your team with opposition information they can use IF they get on base is far far removed from telling the batter what pitch is coming next.[/quote]
I think what he (Morrison) correctly was pointing out is that many questions still exist. It is not as easy as banging the Astros over the head. What about using technology to slice and steal signs? Whether you use that to pass information real time is only one question. Is that what the replay technology is for or does everyone just accept that is ok if it isn’t passed real time? Does everyone get the same access? The use of technology is Currently NOT to be used does that means even if you are not passing real time isn’t that still a violation? You probably can’t prevent it anyway since most teams probably analyze every pitch..
Just not as easy as saying it’s all Astros.
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=372234][quote="Knight" post=372207]I thought this was fair. I don't think the cheating changed the outcome.[/quote]
Really?
Go look at the offensive splits for home vs on the road inthe 2017 post season for Houston.
I don't have them in front of me, but it was reported months ago that they were absurd.
Altuwe hit almost .500 at home that postseason and something like .285 on the road.
Same for Springer & Correa.
Mccann hit .300 at home and .054 on the road.
ANY big leaguer can turn around a 100mph fastball if the know its coming. The whole idea of pitching at that level is to keep the hitters off balance and guessing on the speed/location of each pitch. If they know when a breaking ball is coming they can lay off it. If they know when a fastball is coming they can gear up for it.
Why to you suppose that pitchers and catchers change the signs up when there is a runner on second base? It's not because knowing what pitch is being thrown isn't a huge advantage to the hitter.[/quote]
Here's an article on the home / road splits.
[URL]https://www.barstoolsports.com...y-and-you-might-need-to-take-away-their-title[/URL]
Really?
Go look at the offensive splits for home vs on the road inthe 2017 post season for Houston.
I don't have them in front of me, but it was reported months ago that they were absurd.
Altuwe hit almost .500 at home that postseason and something like .285 on the road.
Same for Springer & Correa.
Mccann hit .300 at home and .054 on the road.
ANY big leaguer can turn around a 100mph fastball if the know its coming. The whole idea of pitching at that level is to keep the hitters off balance and guessing on the speed/location of each pitch. If they know when a breaking ball is coming they can lay off it. If they know when a fastball is coming they can gear up for it.
Why to you suppose that pitchers and catchers change the signs up when there is a runner on second base? It's not because knowing what pitch is being thrown isn't a huge advantage to the hitter.[/quote]
Here's an article on the home / road splits.
[URL]https://www.barstoolsports.com...y-and-you-might-need-to-take-away-their-title[/URL]
beast of the east
Active member
Turns out the biggest home run in MLB history - Bobby Thompson's "Shot hear 'round the world" was the culmination of the Giants cheating the entire second half of the 51 season. They were about 14 games behind when they started a systematic low tech approach to reading signals from the scoreboard via binoculars, signalling the bullpen, and the bullpen quickly buzzing the dugout.
Ralph Branca, who became the quintessential goat, had won 48 games from 1949-1951. He found out for certain in 1954, and said he knew something was up when over the summer weak hitting catcher Wes Westrum crushed a high fastball he normally couldn't touch for a home run.
The Thompson homer, a 3 run shot in the bottom of the 9th, capping a 9th inning comeback from a 4-1 deficit.
The hypocrisy of baseball is that they tolerate this stuff. They know people bet legally in Vegas, yet they banned Mays and Mantle in the 70s for being hired by Las Vegas Casinos. They should invalidate results, but they don't have the guts to do it. They should wipe stats out of the record books for known steroid abusers, but they watched with glee as Sosa, McGwire and Bonds crushed baseball, attendance records, and captivated a nation as they attacked the holy grail of individual season stats.
$5 million is what? A month's pay for Zack Greinke? 20 Steve Trout rbi's? .Slap on the wrist.
Ralph Branca, who became the quintessential goat, had won 48 games from 1949-1951. He found out for certain in 1954, and said he knew something was up when over the summer weak hitting catcher Wes Westrum crushed a high fastball he normally couldn't touch for a home run.
The Thompson homer, a 3 run shot in the bottom of the 9th, capping a 9th inning comeback from a 4-1 deficit.
The hypocrisy of baseball is that they tolerate this stuff. They know people bet legally in Vegas, yet they banned Mays and Mantle in the 70s for being hired by Las Vegas Casinos. They should invalidate results, but they don't have the guts to do it. They should wipe stats out of the record books for known steroid abusers, but they watched with glee as Sosa, McGwire and Bonds crushed baseball, attendance records, and captivated a nation as they attacked the holy grail of individual season stats.
$5 million is what? A month's pay for Zack Greinke? 20 Steve Trout rbi's? .Slap on the wrist.
[quote="SJ_NYC" post=372241][quote="SJUFAN2" post=372234][quote="Knight" post=372207]I thought this was fair. I don't think the cheating changed the outcome.[/quote]
Really?
Go look at the offensive splits for home vs on the road inthe 2017 post season for Houston.
I don't have them in front of me, but it was reported months ago that they were absurd.
Altuwe hit almost .500 at home that postseason and something like .285 on the road.
Same for Springer & Correa.
Mccann hit .300 at home and .054 on the road.
ANY big leaguer can turn around a 100mph fastball if the know its coming. The whole idea of pitching at that level is to keep the hitters off balance and guessing on the speed/location of each pitch. If they know when a breaking ball is coming they can lay off it. If they know when a fastball is coming they can gear up for it.
Why to you suppose that pitchers and catchers change the signs up when there is a runner on second base? It's not because knowing what pitch is being thrown isn't a huge advantage to the hitter.[/quote]
Here's an article on the home / road splits.
[URL]https://www.barstoolsports.com...y-and-you-might-need-to-take-away-their-title[/URL][/quote]
8-1 at home that post season and 3-6 on the road. 18 HR's at home and 9 on the road.
This is why MLB missed the boat. Houston won a title that they they shouldn't have. It should have been stripped and there would be a year without a champion. They'd be tarnished with that forever the same way the black sox were in 1919.
Really?
Go look at the offensive splits for home vs on the road inthe 2017 post season for Houston.
I don't have them in front of me, but it was reported months ago that they were absurd.
Altuwe hit almost .500 at home that postseason and something like .285 on the road.
Same for Springer & Correa.
Mccann hit .300 at home and .054 on the road.
ANY big leaguer can turn around a 100mph fastball if the know its coming. The whole idea of pitching at that level is to keep the hitters off balance and guessing on the speed/location of each pitch. If they know when a breaking ball is coming they can lay off it. If they know when a fastball is coming they can gear up for it.
Why to you suppose that pitchers and catchers change the signs up when there is a runner on second base? It's not because knowing what pitch is being thrown isn't a huge advantage to the hitter.[/quote]
Here's an article on the home / road splits.
[URL]https://www.barstoolsports.com...y-and-you-might-need-to-take-away-their-title[/URL][/quote]
8-1 at home that post season and 3-6 on the road. 18 HR's at home and 9 on the road.
This is why MLB missed the boat. Houston won a title that they they shouldn't have. It should have been stripped and there would be a year without a champion. They'd be tarnished with that forever the same way the black sox were in 1919.
[quote="sjc88" post=372237]
I think what he (Morrison) correctly was pointing out is that many questions still exist. It is not as easy as banging the Astros over the head. What about using technology to slice and steal signs? Whether you use that to pass information real time is only one question. Is that what the replay technology is for or does everyone just accept that is ok if it isn’t passed real time? Does everyone get the same access? The use of technology is Currently NOT to be used does that means even if you are not passing real time isn’t that still a violation? You probably can’t prevent it anyway since most teams probably analyze every pitch..
Just not as easy as saying it’s all Astros.[/quote]
Not sure I follow where you are going with this. What Boston did is different from what teams did with the use of the replay booth prior to the 2018 season in that everyone exploited a loophole created by the new replay technology given to assist managers with their decisions on challenges. Boston apparently ignored the league mandate to stop doing it.
Not all violations are equal. Getting caught speeding isn't the same thing as getting caught stealing a car.
What those teams did is far different from what Houston was caught doing. They were not just using technology to break other teams codes, but they were then using it to relay that information to the batter so he knew what pitch was coming.
To be clear, the Astros aren't the first, nor will they be the last to get caught cheating in an egregious manner. Also, there is no way to know what we don't know when it comes to the number of teams, and level of cheating other teams might have done. But here's what we do know:
Houston won a WS by cheating in the worst of ways.
Boston Ignored the league mandate to stop using the replay room for breaking down opponents signs.
Alex Cora was a major player in both violations.
Everything else is speculation at this point and utterly meaningless until/if someone claims another team did something comparable and the league investigates it.
I think what he (Morrison) correctly was pointing out is that many questions still exist. It is not as easy as banging the Astros over the head. What about using technology to slice and steal signs? Whether you use that to pass information real time is only one question. Is that what the replay technology is for or does everyone just accept that is ok if it isn’t passed real time? Does everyone get the same access? The use of technology is Currently NOT to be used does that means even if you are not passing real time isn’t that still a violation? You probably can’t prevent it anyway since most teams probably analyze every pitch..
Just not as easy as saying it’s all Astros.[/quote]
Not sure I follow where you are going with this. What Boston did is different from what teams did with the use of the replay booth prior to the 2018 season in that everyone exploited a loophole created by the new replay technology given to assist managers with their decisions on challenges. Boston apparently ignored the league mandate to stop doing it.
Not all violations are equal. Getting caught speeding isn't the same thing as getting caught stealing a car.
What those teams did is far different from what Houston was caught doing. They were not just using technology to break other teams codes, but they were then using it to relay that information to the batter so he knew what pitch was coming.
To be clear, the Astros aren't the first, nor will they be the last to get caught cheating in an egregious manner. Also, there is no way to know what we don't know when it comes to the number of teams, and level of cheating other teams might have done. But here's what we do know:
Houston won a WS by cheating in the worst of ways.
Boston Ignored the league mandate to stop using the replay room for breaking down opponents signs.
Alex Cora was a major player in both violations.
Everything else is speculation at this point and utterly meaningless until/if someone claims another team did something comparable and the league investigates it.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="CMA TIME" post=372298]Anyone caught cheating should get a lifetime ban, even first defenders.[/quote]
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=372309][quote="CMA TIME" post=372298]Anyone caught cheating should get a lifetime ban, even first defenders.[/quote]
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
[quote="CMA TIME" post=372313][quote="Beast of the East" post=372309][quote="CMA TIME" post=372298]Anyone caught cheating should get a lifetime ban, even first defenders.[/quote]
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences
ronm
Well-known member
[quote="Spocky Ramone" post=372314][quote="CMA TIME" post=372313][quote="Beast of the East" post=372309][quote="CMA TIME" post=372298]Anyone caught cheating should get a lifetime ban, even first defenders.[/quote]
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences[/quote
I think your recollection is correct. I remember it the same way in that he did not bet against the Reds.
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences[/quote
I think your recollection is correct. I remember it the same way in that he did not bet against the Reds.
[quote="ron " post=372316][quote="Spocky Ramone" post=372314][quote="CMA TIME" post=372313][quote="Beast of the East" post=372309][quote="CMA TIME" post=372298]Anyone caught cheating should get a lifetime ban, even first defenders.[/quote]
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences[/quote
I think your recollection is correct. I remember it the same way in that he did not bet against the Reds.[/quote]
Did they interview the bookie, and look at his book?
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences[/quote
I think your recollection is correct. I remember it the same way in that he did not bet against the Reds.[/quote]
Did they interview the bookie, and look at his book?
[quote="Beast of the East" post=372309][quote="CMA TIME" post=372298]Anyone caught cheating should get a lifetime ban, even first defenders.[/quote]
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Pete Rose Bet on Baseball games he was managing. If he goes into the HOF there should be no HOF.
The Astros stole a championship.
Both are horrifically bad and NEITHER should be forgiven for their transgressions, least of all because someone finds one offense slightly less repulsive than the other.
The truly sad thing about all of this is that the Astros are going to get away with it because MLB has no balls. The gift Manfred gave to the Astros is the equivalent of the Feds busting Bernie Madoff for his Ponzi Scheme, giving him a weekend at club Fed, a $5,000 fine and then let him keep all the stolen money when he got out.
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Pete Rose Bet on Baseball games he was managing. If he goes into the HOF there should be no HOF.
The Astros stole a championship.
Both are horrifically bad and NEITHER should be forgiven for their transgressions, least of all because someone finds one offense slightly less repulsive than the other.
The truly sad thing about all of this is that the Astros are going to get away with it because MLB has no balls. The gift Manfred gave to the Astros is the equivalent of the Feds busting Bernie Madoff for his Ponzi Scheme, giving him a weekend at club Fed, a $5,000 fine and then let him keep all the stolen money when he got out.
[quote="Spocky Ramone" post=372314][quote="CMA TIME" post=372313][quote="Beast of the East" post=372309][quote="CMA TIME" post=372298]Anyone caught cheating should get a lifetime ban, even first defenders.[/quote]
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences[/quote]
What idiots on the other teams are going to give info on the health of their pitchers to an opposing manger?
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences[/quote]
What idiots on the other teams are going to give info on the health of their pitchers to an opposing manger?
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
[quote="bamafan" post=372319][quote="Spocky Ramone" post=372314][quote="CMA TIME" post=372313][quote="Beast of the East" post=372309][quote="CMA TIME" post=372298]Anyone caught cheating should get a lifetime ban, even first defenders.[/quote]
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences[/quote]
What idiots on the other teams are going to give info on the health of their pitchers to an opposing manger?[/quote]
Friends of Charlie
Plus they weren’t playing the Reds
Would Pete Rose be in more trouble if he bet on the Astros with knowledge that they had cheated.
Is Pete Rose's offense worse than the Astros outright cheating? No way.
Put the guy in the HOF. There are 4400 reasons to do so.[/quote]
Do we know if he bet again the reds when managing them?
He could have knowingly made bad moves so they lose.
I guess only him and the bookie will know that, but if he did, then it is just as bad.[/quote]
If I recall correctly:
Pete would call other teams, asking how the pitchers were feeling, that type of thing, and bet accordingly
I also believe he did bet on the Reds, but never against them
There is a sign in all major league clubhouses indicating that betting on baseball is not permitted and will result in severe consequences[/quote]
What idiots on the other teams are going to give info on the health of their pitchers to an opposing manger?[/quote]
Friends of Charlie
Plus they weren’t playing the Reds