Astros

[quote="T & J" post=377271][quote="Logen" post=377270][quote="T & J" post=377262][URL]https://www.nj.com/yankees/202...se-for-jose-altuve-in-buzzer-controversy.html[/URL]

The buzzer, the theories suggest, would alert Altuve and other Astros players who might have been using them as to what pitch was coming next.

At the time, Altuve said he didn’t want his jersey ripped off because he was shy ... and because his wife didn’t want It to happen.

Well, Correa offered a third reason:

So when he’s running from third base to home plate, I’m the guy up front. The first one waiting for him. He’s like, “Don’t take my shirt off.” The second reason — he doesn’t want me to talk about this, but I’m going to say it, is because he’s got an unfinished tattoo on his collarbone that honestly looked terrible. It was a bad tattoo, and he didn’t want nobody to see it. He didn’t want to show it at all.

So, one, he didn’t want to take his shirt off because his wife had told my wife earlier in the year for me to not do that. So he was telling me not to do it. And, number two, he had an unfinished tattoo that looked kinda bad that he didn’t want people to see and people to talk about. That was the reason.

By the way, this explanation doesn’t address why Altuve immediately ran to the dugout instead of celebrating with his teammates, and then re-emerged minutes later with a brand new shirt.

Insert eye roll.

[URL]https://thecomeback.com/mlb/jose-altuve-shirt-tattoo-carlos-correa-cheating-excuse-astros.html[/URL]

Everyone needs to see Jose Altuve’s ‘unfinished tattoo’ that Carlos Correa claims exists ASAP[/quote]

Who cares, they cheated. Baseball powers that be don’t care, just like CBB powers that be don’t care about cheating. As long as TV pays and people pay to get in arenas all they care about is damage control once it is discovered.[/quote]

Oh they'll care, when they start getting hit with fastballs, base runners makes a hard slide into 2nd hopefully breaking Altuves ankle.
If anything like that happens then that's on Manfred, everyone on that team should be fined 10mill each, the championship taking away and barred from the season the next 5 years. If they win the west, then the 2nd place team in the west get 1st place. That would make sure cheating never happens again. If they don't pay up then they're suspended for the season, better call up the minors.

Look at the Astros, it's like they're joking about it, they don't care. It's like they're saying to damn bad, we cheated, we got out championship, so live with it and move on.
With how I see it, the players have no other choice but to take care of it themselves. If someone throws a 100mph fastball at Altuves head, then he and the Astros will have to deal with it.

No one wants injuries but how they're acting, no one will feel bad if one of their key players gets hurt bad. They did it to themselves, justice will come from the players, and it looks like players on alot of teams are pissed.[/quote]

Nonsense, those days are long gone. I didn’t see many football players retaliate against the Patriots and they were caught multiple times. Why do you think the Yankees or Dodgers didn’t change signs and throw a fastball under the chin after signaling for a breaking ball, they knew what the Astros were doing? Sorry, I don’t condone by any means what the Astros did but as far as any ramifications from baseball or players, it ain’t gonna happen. It is all about the money for everyone involved, including most players. Maybe there will be an incident or two but nothing tantamount to what you describe. The same as nothing was done to North Carolina or Kansas, etc. in CBB. Accept it or I respectfully suggest you find some other pastime other than sports for your leisure time.
 
MLB and others keep wanting to reference 2017 as the starting and end point. This is sounding mighty convenient. Like it was isolated to one year.
If as some are suggesting Altuve was wired that was 2019. Altuve hit the walkoff off Chapman in 2019.That suggests this was happening in 2018 and 2019. (I think we all believe this)
Did MLB say anything about those teams and those years in Houston? What about Beltran? He was working for the Yankees in 2018 and 2019. Right? Did he alert Cashman and the team to what Houston was doing? I mean they were the Yankees primary competition in the AL. Was this covered by the investigation?
 
[quote="Logen" post=377272][quote="T & J" post=377271][quote="Logen" post=377270][quote="T & J" post=377262][URL]https://www.nj.com/yankees/202...se-for-jose-altuve-in-buzzer-controversy.html[/URL]

The buzzer, the theories suggest, would alert Altuve and other Astros players who might have been using them as to what pitch was coming next.

At the time, Altuve said he didn’t want his jersey ripped off because he was shy ... and because his wife didn’t want It to happen.

Well, Correa offered a third reason:

So when he’s running from third base to home plate, I’m the guy up front. The first one waiting for him. He’s like, “Don’t take my shirt off.” The second reason — he doesn’t want me to talk about this, but I’m going to say it, is because he’s got an unfinished tattoo on his collarbone that honestly looked terrible. It was a bad tattoo, and he didn’t want nobody to see it. He didn’t want to show it at all.

So, one, he didn’t want to take his shirt off because his wife had told my wife earlier in the year for me to not do that. So he was telling me not to do it. And, number two, he had an unfinished tattoo that looked kinda bad that he didn’t want people to see and people to talk about. That was the reason.

By the way, this explanation doesn’t address why Altuve immediately ran to the dugout instead of celebrating with his teammates, and then re-emerged minutes later with a brand new shirt.

Insert eye roll.

[URL]https://thecomeback.com/mlb/jose-altuve-shirt-tattoo-carlos-correa-cheating-excuse-astros.html[/URL]

Everyone needs to see Jose Altuve’s ‘unfinished tattoo’ that Carlos Correa claims exists ASAP[/quote]

Who cares, they cheated. Baseball powers that be don’t care, just like CBB powers that be don’t care about cheating. As long as TV pays and people pay to get in arenas all they care about is damage control once it is discovered.[/quote]

Oh they'll care, when they start getting hit with fastballs, base runners makes a hard slide into 2nd hopefully breaking Altuves ankle.
If anything like that happens then that's on Manfred, everyone on that team should be fined 10mill each, the championship taking away and barred from the season the next 5 years. If they win the west, then the 2nd place team in the west get 1st place. That would make sure cheating never happens again. If they don't pay up then they're suspended for the season, better call up the minors.

Look at the Astros, it's like they're joking about it, they don't care. It's like they're saying to damn bad, we cheated, we got out championship, so live with it and move on.
With how I see it, the players have no other choice but to take care of it themselves. If someone throws a 100mph fastball at Altuves head, then he and the Astros will have to deal with it.

No one wants injuries but how they're acting, no one will feel bad if one of their key players gets hurt bad. They did it to themselves, justice will come from the players, and it looks like players on alot of teams are pissed.[/quote]

Nonsense, those days are long gone. I didn’t see many football players retaliate against the Patriots and they were caught multiple times. Why do you think the Yankees or Dodgers didn’t change signs and throw a fastball under the chin after signaling for a breaking ball, they knew what the Astros were doing? Sorry, I don’t condone by any means what the Astros did but as far as any ramifications from baseball or players, it ain’t gonna happen. It is all about the money for everyone involved, including most players. Maybe there will be an incident or two but nothing tantamount to what you describe. The same as nothing was done to North Carolina or Kansas, etc. in CBB. Accept it or I respectfully suggest you find some other pastime other than sports for your leisure time.[/quote]

We'll see. Chapman owes a fastball to Altuves shoulder, and break it, if Houston don't like it then lets brawl.
How are you not going to do anything if you're a player and you feel they cheated you, especially when that sob Manfred basically didn't do anything, then in my book you have to do what you gotta do. You're a man, this is your livelihook, you can't let anyone screw you over at your job and get away with it.

anyone read the Athletics pitchers story? In 2017, he was pitching in late August a game vs. Houston, he give up 4 runs and couldn't get anyone out in the 8th inning, he was immediately sent back to the minors, and hasn't returned since. He's suing houston
[URL]https://www.usatoday.com/story...-says-cheating-changed-his-career/4712164002/[/URL]

The Houston Astros wronged a lot of people, in a lot of ways.

But the damage they did to Mike Bolsinger – to his career and to his whole life – was particularly harsh, and the former Toronto Blue Jays pitcher wants them held accountable. Bolsinger filed a civil lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court on Monday, accusing the Astros of unfair business practices, negligence and intentional interference with contractual and economic relations.

Yes, Bolsinger is seeking unspecified damages, but they’re not all for himself. He wants the Astros to forfeit the roughly $31 million in bonuses from their ill-gotten World Series title, and for the money to go to charities in Los Angeles focused on bettering kids’ lives, as well as to create a fund for retired baseball players who need financial assistance.

“There’s a message to be sent to youth out there. Especially athletes, more specifically baseball players,” Bolsinger told USA TODAY Sports. “It was awesome to (grow up and) watch game played the right way. We’ve kind of drifted from that. It’s something we can really express to these kids: You don’t have to cheat to get to where you want to go.

“This kind of stuff doesn’t need to happen.”

Astros spokesman Steve Grande said the team is not commenting on the lawsuit at this time.

You can be forgiven if Bolsinger’s name doesn’t immediately ring a bell. Or if you know little beyond that he was the pitcher the Astros lit up for four runs, four hits and three walks in a third of an inning – 29 pitches, to be exact – in an Aug. 4, 2017, game in Houston.

Bolsinger is the quintessential journeyman, a pitcher who was drafted in the 15th round out of Arkansas and spent four-plus seasons in the minors before making his major-league debut in 2014. Over the next four seasons, he bounced between the majors and Class AAA, playing for three teams.

'CODEBREAKER': Astros' sign-stealing scheme began with front office 'Codebreaker' program

MLB WIN TOTALS: How we see the 2020 season playing out

By the time he faced the Astros, he was 29 and had recently been converted to a reliever. He hoped to pitch well enough in the second half of the season to carve out a regular roster spot for himself as a reliever.

By the time that nightmare of a night was over, Bolsinger had been demoted. He has not pitched in the majors since.

“I don’t know if I’ve had a worse outing in my professional career,” Bolsinger said. “I remember saying, 'It was like they knew what I was throwing. They’re laying off pitches they weren’t laying off before. It’s like they knew what was coming.’ That was the thought in my head.

“I felt like I didn’t have a chance.”

Bolsinger was right. The Astros DID know what was coming.

Major League Baseball announced last month that the Astros had used the video replay feed to steal opposing teams’ signs during the 2017 and 2018 seasons, tipping off their batters to off-speed pitches by banging on a garbage can. Bolsinger is not a flame-thrower; he throws off-speed pitches that depend on catching batters off guard.

All sports, no matter what the season: Our newsletter brings our experts and analysis to your inbox. Sign up here

According to the lawsuit, filed by Ben Meiselas of Geragos & Geragos in Los Angeles on Monday, an Astros fan who wrote a web application to document every instance of trash-can banging found that the most bangs took place in that Aug. 4, 2017, game. And the most bangs in the game came when Bolsinger was on the mound. According to the lawsuit, there were bangs on 12 of his 29 pitches.

“The Houston Astros team members and managers were bragging how good their offense was and how productive they were, and it was at the hands of cheating,” Meiselas said. “And the consequence was Mike.”

Bolsinger spent the rest of the season in Class AAA, going 1-0 with a save and a 1.93 ERA. But he was not among the Blue Jays’ September call-ups, and wasn’t offered a new contract, by the Jays or any other team.

“I was an older guy. They had younger guys to call up,” Bolsinger said. “Let’s say that (Astros game) doesn’t happen … I probably don’t get sent down. But at that point, they probably lost faith in me and were over it.”

With no interest from MLB teams, Bolsinger went to Japan. His wife was pregnant during his first season with the Chiba Lotte Marines, and their son was a baby during the second. They had no family in Japan, and didn’t speak the language.

Bolsinger remembers being afraid of not being able to get help if his wife needed medical attention while she was pregnant, or if something happened to their son. He had a translator when he was with the team, but the translator lived almost an hour away. His wife was often on her own.

“It’s a different world. A different country, obviously,” Bolsinger said. “To not have family around, or anyone around, it would just be me and her and our first kid, that was one of the most scary times in my life.”

Meanwhile, the Astros won the World Series in 2017 and reached the AL Championship Series in 2018. The success generated millions for the team in ticket sales and merchandise, to say nothing of bonuses and bigger contracts for their players.

Even after the sign-stealing scheme was discovered, the only Astros player who faced any kind of discipline was Carlos Beltran, who lost his job as manager of the New York Mets. Astros manager A.J. Hinch and Boston Red Sox manager Alex Cora, who was an Astros coach in 2016 and '17, also were fired.

As for Bolsinger, he will be at home when pitchers and catchers begin reporting this week. Despite going 18-8 with a 3.87 ERA the last two seasons in Japan, he still doesn’t have a job.

“I don’t think the punishment has fit the crime,” he said. “And let’s be honest, all these guys are going to get managing jobs again. … Guys like us that were cheated? I don’t have a job. I’m not playing.”

Bolsinger paid a price for the Astros' deceitful ways. It's only fair they do the same.

Follow USA TODAY Sports columnist Nancy Armour on Twitter @nrarmour.
 
If I were in the opposing dugout as Manager on opening day I'd tell my starting pitcher to keep hitting batters until he was ejected and I'd give every pitcher brought in out of the pen the same marching orders. After 12-18 batters I'd be out of pitchers and They'd have scored a bunch without the benefit of an official AB.

Once my position players had been tossed for throwing at them and I was down to 8 players I'd forfeit and dare the commissioner to fine/suspend me or my players more than any Astros player was penalized for cheating the league out of a clean champion.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=377301]If I were in the opposing dugout as Manager on opening day I'd tell my starting pitcher to keep hitting batters until he was ejected and I'd give every pitcher brought in out of the pen the same marching orders. After 12-18 batters I'd be out of pitchers and They'd have scored a bunch without the benefit of an official AB.

Once my position players had been tossed for throwing at them and I was down to 8 players I'd forfeit and dare the commissioner to fine/suspend me or my players more than any Astros player was penalized for cheating the league out of a clean champion.[/quote]

Quite interesting.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=377301]If I were in the opposing dugout as Manager on opening day I'd tell my starting pitcher to keep hitting batters until he was ejected and I'd give every pitcher brought in out of the pen the same marching orders. After 12-18 batters I'd be out of pitchers and They'd have scored a bunch without the benefit of an official AB.

Once my position players had been tossed for throwing at them and I was down to 8 players I'd forfeit and dare the commissioner to fine/suspend me or my players more than any Astros player was penalized for cheating the league out of a clean champion.[/quote]

There would probably be a brawl after the 2nd, or 3rd pitcher hit a batter. It just sucks that Houston doesn't come to Yankee stadium until the last week of the season. If those games are important then you can't expect fire works. Those fire works will happen May 15-17th in Houston. I'll be interested in seeing Chapman facing Altuve. If I'm Chapman I say I'm good, no retaliation, then the first pitch is a 100mph fast ball to his head, and I won't feel bad if I hurt him bad. Hey, he screwed me and my team with that sending us home for the offseason, while he and his team went to the WS? That's unforgivable. I'd face the consequences after hitting him but I'd still have no regrets. This would be all on Manfred for not doing enough.
 
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I hope every game pitchers throw at them, maybe the Astros would have to forfeit the season if enough of their players get hurt.
 
[quote="T & J" post=377308]I hope every game pitchers throw at them, maybe the Astros would have to forfeit the season if enough of their players get hurt.[/quote]

Are you any relation to CMA Time?
 
[quote="ron " post=377309][quote="T & J" post=377308]I hope every game pitchers throw at them, maybe the Astros would have to forfeit the season if enough of their players get hurt.[/quote]

Are you any relation to CMA Time?[/quote]

No idea who he is. SJUFAN2 has similar feelings as I do, maybe you should ask him. Bauer among lots of baseball players also feel the same, maybe ask them.

Oh I guess you are the forgiving type, and let things slide.
 
I don't blame opposing pitchers for being furious. Especially if you're a pitcher in the Astros' division and pitched 20-30 innings to them. That may have cost you money.
 
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[quote="T & J" post=377310][quote="ron " post=377309][quote="T & J" post=377308]I hope every game pitchers throw at them, maybe the Astros would have to forfeit the season if enough of their players get hurt.[/quote]

Are you any relation to CMA Time?[/quote]

No idea who he is. SJUFAN2 has similar feelings as I do, maybe you should ask him. Bauer among lots of baseball players also feel the same, maybe ask them.

Oh I guess you are the forgiving type, and let things slide.[/quote]

Not the forgiving type at all. I believe the only suitable punishment for both the Astros and the Red Sox is to strip them of their World Series Titles. Also, would not mind seeing Altuve stripped of his MVP award. Throwing at people's heads will only get players suspended and maybe get someone badly injured or killed.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=377311]I don't blame opposing pitchers for being furious. Especially if you're a pitcher in the Astros' division and pitched 20-30 innings to them. That may have cost you money.[/quote]

Forget the pitchers in the same division, as they still play 144 games vs. other teams and could still make the post season. It's the pitchers like Bauer who got lit by Houston in 17, and why would they stop in 18,19 if it worked in 17?
 
[quote="ron " post=377312][quote="T & J" post=377310][quote="ron " post=377309][quote="T & J" post=377308]I hope every game pitchers throw at them, maybe the Astros would have to forfeit the season if enough of their players get hurt.[/quote]

Are you any relation to CMA Time?[/quote]

No idea who he is. SJUFAN2 has similar feelings as I do, maybe you should ask him. Bauer among lots of baseball players also feel the same, maybe ask them.

Oh I guess you are the forgiving type, and let things slide.[/quote]

Not the forgiving type at all. I believe the only suitable punishment for both the Astros and the Red Sox is to strip them of their World Series Titles. Also, would not mind seeing Altuve stripped of his MVP award. Throwing at people's heads will only get players suspended and maybe get someone badly injured or killed.[/quote]

Ron, we all know the punishment already, they get to keep their championship, and Altuve will keep the mvp award, which I'm thinking even pisses the pitchers off even more, THEY WERE CAUGHT CHEATING.

see that's the thing, I don't care if they get hurt bad, cheaters deserve it. The only thing that I won't say they deserve is to be killed.
 
[quote="T & J" post=377314][quote="ron " post=377312][quote="T & J" post=377310][quote="ron " post=377309][quote="T & J" post=377308]I hope every game pitchers throw at them, maybe the Astros would have to forfeit the season if enough of their players get hurt.[/quote]

Are you any relation to CMA Time?[/quote]

No idea who he is. SJUFAN2 has similar feelings as I do, maybe you should ask him. Bauer among lots of baseball players also feel the same, maybe ask them.

Oh I guess you are the forgiving type, and let things slide.[/quote]

Not the forgiving type at all. I believe the only suitable punishment for both the Astros and the Red Sox is to strip them of their World Series Titles. Also, would not mind seeing Altuve stripped of his MVP award. Throwing at people's heads will only get players suspended and maybe get someone badly injured or killed.[/quote]

Ron, we all know the punishment already, they get to keep their championship, and Altuve will keep the mvp award, which I'm thinking even pisses the pitchers off even more, THEY WERE CAUGHT CHEATING.

see that's the thing, I don't care if they get hurt bad, cheaters deserve it. The only thing that I won't say they deserve is to be killed.[/quote]
Ah what the hey why not take it all the way. Firing squad.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=377318][quote="T & J" post=377314][quote="ron " post=377312][quote="T & J" post=377310][quote="ron " post=377309][quote="T & J" post=377308]I hope every game pitchers throw at them, maybe the Astros would have to forfeit the season if enough of their players get hurt.[/quote]

Are you any relation to CMA Time?[/quote]

No idea who he is. SJUFAN2 has similar feelings as I do, maybe you should ask him. Bauer among lots of baseball players also feel the same, maybe ask them.

Oh I guess you are the forgiving type, and let things slide.[/quote]

Not the forgiving type at all. I believe the only suitable punishment for both the Astros and the Red Sox is to strip them of their World Series Titles. Also, would not mind seeing Altuve stripped of his MVP award. Throwing at people's heads will only get players suspended and maybe get someone badly injured or killed.[/quote]

Ron, we all know the punishment already, they get to keep their championship, and Altuve will keep the mvp award, which I'm thinking even pisses the pitchers off even more, THEY WERE CAUGHT CHEATING.

see that's the thing, I don't care if they get hurt bad, cheaters deserve it. The only thing that I won't say they deserve is to be killed.[/quote]
Ah what the hey why not take it all the way. Firing squad.[/quote]

We'll see what happens during the season.
 
[quote="T & J" post=377308]I hope every game pitchers throw at them, maybe the Astros would have to forfeit the season if enough of their players get hurt.[/quote]

Will Gerrit Cole, former Houston Astro player, be the thrower or should someone throw at him for being part of that team and saying nothing?

C’mon T&J you know what you are saying might be a little over the top no?
 
[quote="sjc88" post=377350][quote="T & J" post=377308]I hope every game pitchers throw at them, maybe the Astros would have to forfeit the season if enough of their players get hurt.[/quote]

Will Gerrit Cole, former Houston Astro player, be the thrower or should someone throw at him for being part of that team and saying nothing?

C’mon T&J you know what you are saying might be a little over the top no?[/quote]

Maybe so, but the Astros think that Manfred went easy on them, now they're acting like, oh well to bad, the commish gave the penalty so to bad. Correa coming up with some bs excuse about a tattoo as to why Altuve warned them not to take off his shirt. Then instead of celebrating with his teammates he goes into the clubhouse and changes his shirt??? Oh now we care about what's right and wrong and the well being of Astro players? Did they give a crap when they cheated? No, they celebrated a championship, they were having a freaking blast, and all those pitchers that they cheated against, why did they deserve what the Astros did to them.
Now all of a sudden we care about the Astro players??? Yeah, have sympathy for cheaters.

If I'm a pitcher that got beat up bad in the playoffs, and they legitly kicked my ass then I could live with it, but knowing that you're a pretty damn good pitcher in baseball and they kicked your ass, everytime you pitched, and everyday wonder what happened to my stuff, only to find out that they cheated against me in January, how could anyone say oh it's ok, I forgive you all. Even when thinking back to that game and looking over to their dugout and watching laughing at my expense while I feel like crap.

Maybe mlb pitchers are better then me, but I take that to heart. I day I found out that they cheated on me, that very second, my mind is made up as to what I'm going to do and no one would talk me out of it.
 
[URL]https://www.bostonglobe.com/sp...ing-scandal/A0997LnftNuxKQJCJMtKKJ/story.html[/URL]

People seem to be confusing 2017 with last years playoffs. According to Section 2 Titled Rules Violations in Subsequent Seasons and I quote:
“The investigation revealed no violation of the policy by the Astros in the 2019 season or the 2019 postseason”.
Not saying I agree but those are the facts at least according to MLB. Anything else is speculation.
 
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[quote="sjc88" post=377361][URL]https://www.bostonglobe.com/sp...ing-scandal/A0997LnftNuxKQJCJMtKKJ/story.html[/URL]

People seem to be confusing 2017 with last years playoffs. According to Section 2 Titled Rules Violations in Subsequent Seasons and I quote:
“The investigation revealed no violation of the policy by the Astros in the 2019 season or the 2019 postseason”.
Not saying I agree but those are the facts at least according to MLB. Anything else is speculation.[/quote]

And has another fact, after they got caught cheating they still got to keep their Championship, so manfred can go to hell, what he says to me is meaningless.so to me, the other teams gotta take it into their hands.
Cant allow Houston to get away with it, and it can last the season.
 
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[quote="sjc88" post=377361][URL]https://www.bostonglobe.com/sp...ing-scandal/A0997LnftNuxKQJCJMtKKJ/story.html[/URL]

People seem to be confusing 2017 with last years playoffs. According to Section 2 Titled Rules Violations in Subsequent Seasons and I quote:
“The investigation revealed no violation of the policy by the Astros in the 2019 season or the 2019 postseason”.
Not saying I agree but those are the facts at least according to MLB. Anything else is speculation.[/quote]

Fair enough, but Baseball's report is based on the information provided by the players who had blanket immunity. Why would I expect a group of cheaters to be completely transparent with MLB (or the public) when there are absolutely ZERO consequences to them for lying?
 
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