Around the Big East

I don't understand the debate from the previous page.  Everybody WANTS to win.  Not everybody has an equally realistic opportunity to do that.  So any evaluation depends on expectations, which in turn depend on circumstances.  Plus there's a time and events factor.

If you're hired at a blueblood program like Kansas, Kentucky, UNC et al, then the expectation is that you'll get to a Final 4 every few years and have a shot at a national championship.  If you make the NCAA every year and get bounced out in the Sweet 16, you're gonna get fired.

OTOH if you're Loyola Chicago and you make a couple of runs to the Sweet 16 or the Elite 8, they build a statue to you (and then you get a better job).

In the BE, if you're hired at DePaul, if you can make the NCAAs you are a success because they suck.  If you're Ewing at Georgetown, you have a once-proud program that has turned into crap and the question is whether you can turn it around.  Most coaches in that spot get 5 years unless it becomes clear early on that they have no shot.  Ditto SJU.

For Marquette, Wojo got fired because he had a good year with an exceptional college player and other than that finished 6th in the league a lot and then was truly awful this year with really good talent.  So the question is whether Shaka Smart is going to replicate that (which would not surprise me at all) or elevate them to more of a Creighton/Seton Hall/UConn level of being expected to be in the top third of the league every year.

You can't just say "it's all about results" because it isn't.  It's about the situation at that program, what the perception of "good results" is for that program, and what events and time occur that push the expectations up or down.
 
Couple of things.  Stop gaslighting. You have NO IDEA why someone got fired.  You don't talk to the important people involved nor do you have any idea.  So please stop saying things like, "Wojo got fired because..."  You have ZERO idea.  None.  

Just like you have ZERO idea why Wahab transferred from Georgetown or the Hauser Bros from Marquette.  

You make up your own reasons why someone got fired to justify previous arguments.  With no basis in fact.  

It is pathetic.

lawmanfan post=431683
I don't understand the debate from the previous page.  Everybody WANTS to win.  Not everybody has an equally realistic opportunity to do that.  So any evaluation depends on expectations, which in turn depend on circumstances.  Plus there's a time and events factor.

If you're hired at a blueblood program like Kansas, Kentucky, UNC et al, then the expectation is that you'll get to a Final 4 every few years and have a shot at a national championship.  If you make the NCAA every year and get bounced out in the Sweet 16, you're gonna get fired.

OTOH if you're Loyola Chicago and you make a couple of runs to the Sweet 16 or the Elite 8, they build a statue to you (and then you get a better job).

In the BE, if you're hired at DePaul, if you can make the NCAAs you are a success because they suck.  If you're Ewing at Georgetown, you have a once-proud program that has turned into crap and the question is whether you can turn it around.  Most coaches in that spot get 5 years unless it becomes clear early on that they have no shot.  Ditto SJU.

For Marquette, Wojo got fired because he had a good year with an exceptional college player and other than that finished 6th in the league a lot and then was truly awful this year with really good talent.  So the question is whether Shaka Smart is going to replicate that (which would not surprise me at all) or elevate them to more of a Creighton/Seton Hall/UConn level of being expected to be in the top third of the league every year.

You can't just say "it's all about results" because it isn't.  It's about the situation at that program, what the perception of "good results" is for that program, and what events and time occur that push the expectations up or down.

 
 
Paultzman post=431591 said:
RM North knows this player well as I recall

https://twitter.com/painttouches/status/1382690378399285251?s=21
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Very talented player, a full 6 8 , can shoot from the outside ,handle the ball , score , kid can really do it all. However, he is looking to be the man wherever he goes and I don’t know if that is a realistic goal in a power conference. On my sons BrookwoodElite team in summer 2019 he had a tough time being the third option and my understanding is little has changed. For his sake I hope he finds a role he can live with, if he does he can be a good addition to any team as the talent level is there. 
 
It's worth taking a moment to temper the optimism of those of us who are optimistic by pointing out that the Big East is shaping up to be absolutely brutal next year. 

Nova, Hall and UConn are a given. 

Marquette and Georgetown are adding a lot of talent. 

Providence and Butler are getting most of the band back together, and experience matters 

X and Creighton are always competitive. 

The only team in the league that might be worse is DePaul, and the fact that they have a coach not named Leitao means you have to assume they will better. 

IMO the league is going to be really, really tough next year. 
 
lawmanfan post=431870 said:
It's worth taking a moment to temper the optimism of those of us who are optimistic by pointing out that the Big East is shaping up to be absolutely brutal next year. 

Nova, Hall and UConn are a given. 

Marquette and Georgetown are adding a lot of talent. 

Providence and Butler are getting most of the band back together, and experience matters 

X and Creighton are always competitive. 

The only team in the league that might be worse is DePaul, and the fact that they have a coach not named Leitao means you have to assume they will better. 

IMO the league is going to be really, really tough next year. 

We have to see who else we grab, but I think we will be competitive as long as Champs comes back.  We have 2 all league kids,  returning most of our best pieces, a lot more size and some really nice new players.  
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Obviously we need to see where the roster is when the dust settles on the portal.  But this is a big year.  Next 2 years in particular are big.  Need to start making a move.  Most early pre-season polls have only Villanova and UCONN as top 25 locks in the conference.  I expect the conference as a whole to be better than last year but again there are not a lot of dominant teams outside of Nova.  

The other thing I will say is the New York flavor is great and important.  But at the same time they need to start landing some top 75 type 4 star kids.  Unrealistic to expect a roster full of them but they it would be nice to grab one or 2 a year.  Not landing Riley or Cuffe (Riley signed with Kansas the other day so I guess it is official he moved to 2021) hurts.  Not the end of the world but quite frankly at some point they need to start landing that type of kid.  If you are going to argue "Well to do that Fordham SJU needs to start playing important games in March..." well then this next year is that much more important. 


MCNPA post=431871
 
I didn't say we won't be competitive.  I think we will.  But we could easily be a better team and wind up with a worse record.

Next year is not going to look like last year.  Last year you had a substandard Nova team, a fairly typical Creighton team, and after that just about everyone was off in one way or another at some point in the season or all season long.  I don't think you're going to see that next year.  Almost every team in the conference has upgraded their talent and/or their coaching, and with a normal offseason, pre-season, and non-conference schedule I expect to see a much higher level of play in the league next year from top to bottom.
 
 
I never said you said SJU would NOT be competitive.  But we should start expecting more then just competitive.  We would not hold Steve Lavin or Chris Mullin to a standard of just competitive in year 3.

Creighton's year last year was not typical of them.  Last year was supposed to be an elite year by them nationally so that was a bit of a disappointment but they were a 5 seed in the NCAA's, highest since they were a 3 in their first year in BE.  Are you saying it is typical they are a 5 seed in the NCAA's every year?

The team that is going to make this more difficult is UCONN.  They are recruiting at a high level and will be a player in the BE the next few years after not even being a member.  But again Georgetown has not done anything in years.  Marquette has disappointed more often than not.  No reason SJU even without recent success can't compete on the recruiting trail with them. 



lawmanfan post=431878
I didn't say we won't be competitive.  I think we will.  But we could easily be a better team and wind up with a worse record.

Next year is not going to look like last year.  Last year you had a substandard Nova team, a fairly typical Creighton team, and after that just about everyone was off in one way or another at some point in the season or all season long.  I don't think you're going to see that next year.  Almost every team in the conference has upgraded their talent and/or their coaching, and with a normal offseason, pre-season, and non-conference schedule I expect to see a much higher level of play in the league next year from top to bottom.
 
Coaster wrote:

According to  @JonRothstein
·
3m
Marquette transfer Theo John has committed to Duke, per his Twitter page. Should be a quality stabilizer up front for the Blue Devils.

This 10 and done recruited to counterbalance Duke 1 and dones?
 
NCJohnnie post=431881 said:
Coaster wrote:

According to  @JonRothstein
·
3m
Marquette transfer Theo John has committed to Duke, per his Twitter page. Should be a quality stabilizer up front for the Blue Devils.

This 10 and done recruited to counterbalance Duke 1 and dones?

Very odd fit IMO.  He’s gonna get less PT there in his final year.  Weird.
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Coaster post=431880 said:
According to @JonRothstein
·
3m
Marquette transfer Theo John has committed to Duke, per his Twitter page. Should be a quality stabilizer up front for the Blue Devils.
Click to expand...

As if there were more reasons needed to hate Duke

Sure Wojo helped out his old coach 
 
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My premature look on Big East is super competitive, not many top 25 teams, low amount of NCAA bids due to teams knocking off one another regularly and just about every game a great watch. With Julian and a few more productive pieces I see no reason for SJU not to be in top tier of conference. This is our window of opportunity year to Dance, impress and turn more heads on recruiting front.
 
Paultzman post=431890 said:
My premature look on Big East is super competitive, not many top 25 teams, low amount of NCAA bids due to teams knocking off one another regularly and just about every game a great watch. With Julian and a few more productive pieces I see no reason for SJU not to be in top tier of conference. This is our window of opportunity year to Dance, impress and turn more heads on recruiting front.


 
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Seems like a reasonable goal. SJU went 10-9 last year with only one senior of any note, Dunn. That needs to be built upon, and the new rules are the same for all programs. I like CMA a lot and it's clear he can coach but I'm not willing to sign up for second division Big East for life. It's year three, time to do some winning.
 
Lonely times for HC McDermott

Matt  ballock declared for draft, signs with agent, leaving creighton without a single starter from ncaa team.
 
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