Around the Big East

[SJU85]

Let’s see how Val Ackerman deals with Yukon now. Will she continue kissing their a$$ while they are trying (in vain) to bolt? And how will the rest of the league treat them? I say play them in Carnessecca, who cares how they feel, they will always have one foot out the door.

And for those who think they are inportant to the league, ask yourself this. WTF has Yukon do for St. John’s or the rest of the league? Did their high ranking help us make the dance the past few years or get more then three teams in the Dance?? Get them the F out of the league, they add nothing but a bunch of asswipe fans who make attending a Garden game against them a horrendous experience.

Did it help last year in terms of teams in the Tourny, no. Has it helped with overall revenue (including TV), yes.

While Val may have pushed for Yukon, the school’s President’s could have said no (see Yormack and Big 12), but they didn’t. They had their eyes wide open and knew the possibilities and what they were getting into. It is about the mighty dollar and UConn, admit it, like it or not, adds value to the BE with with their basketball programs. It is and has been for many. many years, about the mighty dollar. If they leave, they have a buyout.

MSG is one of our partners and as such, they would have a hard time accepting us playing our biggest opposing draW, at CA instead of MSG. You don’t think they haven’t made that known to both us and the BE?

Syracuse was supposed to leave the BE with Miami but at the last minute UVa (pressed by their Governor) gathered opposition support and voted them down and for then, the Cuse remained in the BE. We still played them at MSG and no one punished them.

You want to shut up their obnoxious fans and Athletic Director, beat them and do better. That’s how you “punish” them without hurting your pockets.

 

[ADORAZ]

Great post SJU85. Also, just to add regarding the concern of UConn taking away bids from other teams. Last year UConn may have kept us out, which sucks, but we had 3 shots and couldn't do it. We also didn't do much OOC to help our case. Seton Hall was only on the bubble because they beat UConn, but they had a mediocre OOC with 4 losses. The Big East deserved at least 4, but I also think we just got very unlucky to have a lot of teams on the bubble, and those teams didn't do well enough OOC.

Also, lets not forget that the previous year UConn had an incredible OOC and the rest of the Big East did mediocre overall, and UConn lost a lot in BE play which lifted up other Big East teams. Entering Big East play only #2 UConn and #24 Marquette were ranked. By the end of BE play we had 4 teams ranked, and the highest was Marquette at #6. UConn bailed the BE out that year OOC, lifted up the rest of the conference with losses (finished tied for 4th in BE), and then went on to win another Title for the BE (Tournament credits $$$ for everyone).

In short, even if you totally remove the money factor or their 2 Titles (which you can't), they still overall make the league better. I'll have our game vs. UConn circled on my calendar every year, and when Pitino beats them it'll be incredible to be the ones leaving MSG happy.

 

[lawmanfan]

Love em, hate em, or whatever - U Conn is good for the league and the league is good for U Conn. It's a shame that the combination of their (ridiculous) belief that they can somehow compete in football and the fact that they're epic d-bags keeps getting in the way of the obvious fit and mutual benefit.

 

[logen]

Love em, hate em, or whatever - U Conn is good for the league and the league is good for U Conn. It's a shame that the combination of their (ridiculous) belief that they can somehow compete in football and the fact that they're epic d-bags keeps getting in the way of the obvious fit and mutual benefit.

No doubt about their value to the league.

 

[Silly Donovan]

Love em, hate em, or whatever - U Conn is good for the league and the league is good for U Conn. It's a shame that the combination of their (ridiculous) belief that they can somehow compete in football and the fact that they're epic d-bags keeps getting in the way of the obvious fit and mutual benefit.

I know I’m alone on this but I completely disagree. Yukon is good for Yukon period. If they were not in the league, we would still have the same number of highly rated teams, would still have gotten the same number of tourney bids and wouldn’t have to put up with their BS. I guess everyone forgets, before they were here we actually had more tourney invites, had a national championship etc. so no, them being in the league has only benefitted them not the rest of us. TV deals would still be the same.

 

[SJU85]

I know I’m alone on this but I completely disagree. Yukon is good for Yukon period. If they were not in the league, we would still have the same number of highly rated teams, would still have gotten the same number of tourney bids and wouldn’t have to put up with their BS. I guess everyone forgets, before they were here we actually had more tourney invites, had a national championship etc. so no, them being in the league has only benefitted them not the rest of us. TV deals would still be the same.

- Have those programs who provided more invites maintained that level

- Did the BE get a better TV deal since the addition of UConn? Would they have gotten the same deal without them? That answer is no if the value of the TV deal goes down If UConn leaves.

We understand you dislike UConn and their followers. Most of us do (with at least one exception). It is also fine that you wish they were gone but the addition of UConn has been beneficial for them and the BE.

Bringing in Dayton or anyone of those programs that keep being brought up would not add anywhere near the value UConn does if any value at all. Only Gonzaga might come close (the logistics would negate a lot or that) and they are not interested (at least for now).

 

[room112]

Great post SJU85. Also, just to add regarding the concern of UConn taking away bids from other teams. Last year UConn may have kept us out, which sucks, but we had 3 shots and couldn't do it. We also didn't do much OOC to help our case. Seton Hall was only on the bubble because they beat UConn, but they had a mediocre OOC with 4 losses. The Big East deserved at least 4, but I also think we just got very unlucky to have a lot of teams on the bubble, and those teams didn't do well enough OOC.

Also, lets not forget that the previous year UConn had an incredible OOC and the rest of the Big East did mediocre overall, and UConn lost a lot in BE play which lifted up other Big East teams. Entering Big East play only #2 UConn and #24 Marquette were ranked. By the end of BE play we had 4 teams ranked, and the highest was Marquette at #6. UConn bailed the BE out that year OOC, lifted up the rest of the conference with losses (finished tied for 4th in BE), and then went on to win another Title for the BE (Tournament credits $$$ for everyone).

In short, even if you totally remove the money factor or their 2 Titles (which you can't), they still overall make the league better. I'll have our game vs. UConn circled on my calendar every year, and when Pitino beats them it'll be incredible to be the ones leaving MSG happy.

Great points. And I believe someone pointed out in a comment recently on here, but Hurley seems to give Pitino that extra motivation as that foe he'd love nothing more than to take down, as competitive as he is. Love that we have that to keep Pitino even further locked in, especially at this point in his career.

 

[espken]

I know I’m alone on this but I completely disagree. Yukon is good for Yukon period. If they were not in the league, we would still have the same number of highly rated teams, would still have gotten the same number of tourney bids and wouldn’t have to put up with their BS. I guess everyone forgets, before they were here we actually had more tourney invites, had a national championship etc. so no, them being in the league has only benefitted them not the rest of us. TV deals would still be the same.

Let’s not let hate prevail over common sense. Make no mistake, they keep the BE more relevant. Nova was a blue blood with Wright, but Neptune has brought them back to mediocrity.

 

[tom in salem]

THE ATHLETIC: Ranking Big East basketball programs as UConn goes for rare 3-peat: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/57...asketball-rankings-uconn-marquette-preseason/

Thanks for posting this. They've got us 5th again? Tough crown to please. Marquette is 2nd. Losing Kolek

 

[NCJohnnie]

Thanks for posting this. They've got us 5th again? Tough crown to please. Marquette is 2nd. Losing Kolek

5th would be a huge miss. I see us top 3.

 

[SJU61982]

Great post SJU85. Also, just to add regarding the concern of UConn taking away bids from other teams. Last year UConn may have kept us out, which sucks, but we had 3 shots and couldn't do it. We also didn't do much OOC to help our case. Seton Hall was only on the bubble because they beat UConn, but they had a mediocre OOC with 4 losses. The Big East deserved at least 4, but I also think we just got very unlucky to have a lot of teams on the bubble, and those teams didn't do well enough OOC.

Also, lets not forget that the previous year UConn had an incredible OOC and the rest of the Big East did mediocre overall, and UConn lost a lot in BE play which lifted up other Big East teams. Entering Big East play only #2 UConn and #24 Marquette were ranked. By the end of BE play we had 4 teams ranked, and the highest was Marquette at #6. UConn bailed the BE out that year OOC, lifted up the rest of the conference with losses (finished tied for 4th in BE), and then went on to win another Title for the BE (Tournament credits $$$ for everyone).

In short, even if you totally remove the money factor or their 2 Titles (which you can't), they still overall make the league better. I'll have our game vs. UConn circled on my calendar every year, and when Pitino beats them it'll be incredible to be the ones leaving MSG happy.

The team that kept more Big East teams out of the tournament last season was DePaul. They were historically bad last year, and, because of the double roun-robin, everyone in the league had to play them twice. Big East teams played some non-conference "buy" games against better competition.

Georgetown wasn't much better, though they were at least competitive for a good portion of most of their games.

The ACC had Louisville, but they weren't nearly as bad, and not everyone in that league has to play them twice (although Virginia and Pitt, the two ACC bubble teams, both did).

 

[tom in salem]

The team that kept more Big East teams out of the tournament last season was DePaul. They were historically bad last year, and, because of the double roun-robin, everyone in the league had to play them twice. Big East teams played some non-conference "buy" games against better competition.

Georgetown wasn't much better, though they were at least competitive for a good portion of most of their games.

The ACC had Louisville, but they weren't nearly as bad, and not everyone in that league has to play them twice (although Virginia and Pitt, the two ACC bubble teams, both did).

Good points. Glad the both hired good coaches, Conference will be quite a bit tough this season,

 

[lawmanfan]

5th would be a huge miss. I see us top 3.

I'm not counting any chickens.

X, UConn, Creighton and Marquette are all very tough. You can throw SJU in there and you have the probably top 5 in the conference. Think SJU is unlikely to be top 2 so more likely to be bottom 3 in that tier.

At the other end of the spectrum, DePaul, Butler, Nova, Georgetown, Seton Hall are very likely to be the bottom 5. I would say Nova and Butler are probably the top 2 of the bottom 5 and the others are the bottom 3 in the tier.

What that leaves is a middle tier of one team: Providence, which I think will be 6th but could sneak up to 5 if one of those teams runs into trouble or 7 if one of those teams excels (or Providence underperforms).

 

[otis]

The reality is that the margin of error is very slim between 3rd and 5th.

The Johnnies cannot afford to lose any games to bottom tier BEast teams.

 

[bucketshardy]

The reality is that the margin of error is very slim between 3rd and 5th.

The Johnnies cannot afford to lose any games to bottom tier BEast teams.

Bad games happen- thats a reality... yes it's never a good look to lose to a DePaul or Gtown.... but i dont think (HOPE) we will have historically Bad BE teams this year as we did last.

Think the more important stat in the eye of the committee will be our OOC- specifically Baylor / Georgia / Kansas St. These will be YYUUUGEE.

In Conf Play... I'll take a Loss to GTown or DePaul if that means we beat UConn once or the Top 3 teams each once.... we need to show we can beat Tournament teams... something we didn't do last year. (1 W vs Creighton?)

 

[dk423]

Bad games happen- thats a reality... yes it's never a good look to lose to a DePaul or Gtown.... but i dont think (HOPE) we will have historically Bad BE teams this year as we did last.

Think the more important stat in the eye of the committee will be our OOC- specifically Baylor / Georgia / Kansas St. These will be YYUUUGEE.

In Conf Play... I'll take a Loss to GTown or DePaul if that means we beat UConn once or the Top 3 teams each once.... we need to show we can beat Tournament teams... something we didn't do last year. (1 W vs Creighton?)

I think it will be near impossible for Georgetown (NET: 205) or DePaul (NET: 320) to be as bad as they were last year. Them finishing in the top 150 NET would be a massive improvement. I also think the floor of our OOC is important as well. It's good to see we aren't playing Mississippi Valley State or anyone like that. I do wish we had one more strong OOC opponent, preferably on the road. But it is what it is.

At the end of the day, the staff has assembled a talented roster that fits their athletic necessities for their system and created a schedule that should put them in a position to be in a position. They just have to win.

 

[redmanwest]

Not o repeat what has already been said, but:

- UCONN in the league, like not or not is a HUGE plus on terms of prestige and power rankings
- I doubt that the 3 bid scenario will repeat itself. I think last year was a weird year with a few of our teams (including us) basically par and a few bid stealers. By all rights, the BE should be a min 4 bid league and usually more.
- UCONN's constant football envy is annoying and ultimately may lead them to leave, but it is what it is and we should enjoy lift as long as we can. Not a lot of good options to replace them that would bring anywhere near as much.
- I doubt (JMHO) we finish 5th. I think more like 2nd or 3rd. (Hoping, wishing, praying)

 

[logen]

UConn may not be able to ever upgrade their football program but the idea they shouldn’t try is crazy since that is where the $ is, and college athletics is only and solely all about the money.

 

[redmanwest]

UConn may not be able to ever upgrade their football program but the idea they shouldn’t try is crazy since that is where the $ is, and college athletics is only and solely all about the money.

True, but in actuality, all the need to do is latch onto one of the big football conferences due to their basketball prowess and get the money. Whether they can every upgrade their football would remain to be seen. Their carrot would be the basketball success and what that brings with it to a conference that wants it. I think we've seen that a few don't care.

 

[Silly Donovan]

- Have those programs who provided more invites maintained that level

- Did the BE get a better TV deal since the addition of UConn? Would they have gotten the same deal without them? That answer is no if the value of the TV deal goes down If UConn leaves.

We understand you dislike UConn and their followers. Most of us do (with at least one exception). It is also fine that you wish they were gone but the addition of UConn has been beneficial for them and the BE.

Bringing in Dayton or anyone of those programs that keep being brought up would not add anywhere near the value UConn does if any value at all. Only Gonzaga might come close (the logistics would negate a lot or that) and they are not interested (at least for now).

Sorry but I have to disagree with you again. Consider this, if Yukon was not in the league, perhaps Creighton, Marquette and yes even the Johnnies would have been ranked higher. While it’s true that Nova has faded, there are other quality teams in the conference and in fact some believe were it not for our two losses to Yukon we may have been dancing, as well as a few other teams.

In terms of a TV deal, you are only assuming we would not have gotten as good a deal. From what I recall, we had good TV deals prior to Yukon.

My point is this, the ones who benefitted most from Yukons emergence in the conference was Yukon period. You have to show me tangible evidence how St. John’s has benefitted. Your points are everyone else’s are mostly supposition. And yes, while I do despise their program, fans etc. that has not influenced my thoughts on this topic.

In short, the Big East fared fine without them in the past and would continue to do so in the future.