Apology
- Thread starter danfog
- Start date
After the game they interviewed Sampson, and they asked him what kept the team together when they were going thru January. He said emphatically the coach remained calm and the entire coaching staff said we will grow thru this and end up well. He went on to say the team baught into the coaching staff and their system.
I'm very impressed with the perseverance since the 0-5 start, but this team is far from out of the woods. Why did it take 3 months (plus Europe) to figure out the starting lineup and rotation? Last night's game was very well played, but if they lost that extremely close game, this site would feel like a funeral.
beast of the east
Active member
Wasn't there a recent quote by Keady about what he thought about when his Purdue teams had bad seasons? His answer, "I should have gotten better players."
Yes. And had they shut down McDermott on the last shot in the first game or made a free throw against Providence, gotten a stop against DePaul, hung on against 'Cuse, etc...
We've been black and white on this board: when they lose a close one, they're terrible, Lavin's an idiot and our players all stink. So it's only fair to revel in a big win.
I don't think an apology is in order, but I do think KUDOs are to the staff and the team. They (coaches and players) have stepped up and are playing very well right now. But, some of the issues earlier could have / should have been avoided. Right now, let's just ride the wave to see how far it can go. Hopefully, the early season trouble will NOT come back to haunt us, but it is really in the team's hands now. Run the table, and dance in March. I like where we are, let's just hope we can sustain this run.
I am impressed that they were able to right the ship and that Lavin's salesman talk was more than just talk. I wonder how much Whitesell had to do with all this as I was ready to write off CO, but he has made huge strides that I didn't think he could make. With that said, the first half of the season was a failure and that does fall on the staff. I'm happy that things are moving along well, but the mid-season criticism was justified. We still are no lock for the NCAA and that is the full season barometer.
Really well said. The first part of the season was a mixed bag, the next piece was outrageously dissapointing, and this most recent stretch has been incredibly exciting. You can always slice the season into various selective sample sizes, but you'll ultimately be evaluated on the whole. You're never as good as you are when you're winning or as bad as you are when you're losing. I hope when this shakes out over the next month we feel as good on selection Sunday as we did last night.
The team is playing well. Coach Lavin has to be given credit for keeping the team together and for keeping them positive. If they play well for the next couple of weeks then he will look like a genius for predicting that they would get hot at the end of the year and be dangerous (he's already well on the way there).
IMHO that is essentially his skill set - the power of positive thinking.
OTOH this is a team that has 9 losses and is still in the bottom half of the Big East. It sure looks as though we are going to dig out of that hole, and hopefully we will dig enough to make the NCAAs. But the reason we have the 9 losses and all this work to do is because of the things that are NOT Coach Lavin's skill set. Many of those things are still evident on the floor.
There have been some strategic adjustments that have been noted by many. Man defense, more pressure, more minutes for the better players, a shorter rotation. None of those are rocket science, and in fact they are what many posters were screaming for from the beginning of the season. Why did it take the staff half the season to do what was obvious all along? The defensive improvement you are seeing now is mostly a result of experience, which the team would have accrued earlier had they been coached better from the start.
Offensively we still play an NBA-lite offense, mostly isolation, pick-and-pop, some pick-and-roll. There's still really nothing run away from the ball, but the execution of what we do is better due to experience.
The Lavin recipe seems to be (1) recruit talent; (2) experiment with plugging everyone on the team into a relatively uncomplicated offense and defense, at the expense of getting your team to gel and play with discipline early; (3) wait and preach optimism; (4) claim victory when they finally "get it" late in the year.
It will be interesting to see if next year starts where this year leaves off, or whether we go back to the mad scientist approach for the first 15 games again.
It will be even more interesting to see what happens in two years when the team is a rebuilding project again. You'd think a good coach would have a system in place by then (really by now) that would accelerate the learning curve for new players since they would fit into defined roles early.
By the way the substitutions (especially in the first half) are still mechanical. The subs come in every four minutes without regard to what the team on the floor is doing.
So sure, give Coach credit for having confidence that it would all work out, for having the patience to see it through, and for having the personality to carry the team with him. Just don't think he's suddenly turned into Tom Izzo, because that isn't the case.
IMHO that is essentially his skill set - the power of positive thinking.
OTOH this is a team that has 9 losses and is still in the bottom half of the Big East. It sure looks as though we are going to dig out of that hole, and hopefully we will dig enough to make the NCAAs. But the reason we have the 9 losses and all this work to do is because of the things that are NOT Coach Lavin's skill set. Many of those things are still evident on the floor.
There have been some strategic adjustments that have been noted by many. Man defense, more pressure, more minutes for the better players, a shorter rotation. None of those are rocket science, and in fact they are what many posters were screaming for from the beginning of the season. Why did it take the staff half the season to do what was obvious all along? The defensive improvement you are seeing now is mostly a result of experience, which the team would have accrued earlier had they been coached better from the start.
Offensively we still play an NBA-lite offense, mostly isolation, pick-and-pop, some pick-and-roll. There's still really nothing run away from the ball, but the execution of what we do is better due to experience.
The Lavin recipe seems to be (1) recruit talent; (2) experiment with plugging everyone on the team into a relatively uncomplicated offense and defense, at the expense of getting your team to gel and play with discipline early; (3) wait and preach optimism; (4) claim victory when they finally "get it" late in the year.
It will be interesting to see if next year starts where this year leaves off, or whether we go back to the mad scientist approach for the first 15 games again.
It will be even more interesting to see what happens in two years when the team is a rebuilding project again. You'd think a good coach would have a system in place by then (really by now) that would accelerate the learning curve for new players since they would fit into defined roles early.
By the way the substitutions (especially in the first half) are still mechanical. The subs come in every four minutes without regard to what the team on the floor is doing.
So sure, give Coach credit for having confidence that it would all work out, for having the patience to see it through, and for having the personality to carry the team with him. Just don't think he's suddenly turned into Tom Izzo, because that isn't the case.
I agree with everything you say with one exception; the biggest difference in this team is on the defensive end and I don't see the better defense to be a product of experience playing it but rather for some reason the effort and committment to play good defense finally kicked in. We all know that is what defense is and the intensity is now evident. Why it took 2/3 of the season to get the team playing with that intensity is beyond me. While I will give all due credit to the coaches and players for the recent upswing I will not even begin to apologize for commenting honestly on what happened earlier. To me, this idea that we had to wait for this team to gel is just pure nonsense; we should have been playing this hard on the defensive end from day one. Having said that, full steam ahead, hopefully we keep it up.
stjohnschris
Active member
Finally post ups, movement without the ball, a smart rotation, communication on defense. Easily the best played and coached game of the year, on both sides of the court, IMO. Going to be a fun run into March.
There's no excuse why it took over half of the season to get here, but it's nice to see that we are playing our best basketball right now.
There's no excuse why it took over half of the season to get here, but it's nice to see that we are playing our best basketball right now.
ZanMan
Well-known member
Nothing wrong with criticizing Coach Lavin. It's what fans do when things are going bad. BUT, I felt as if some of the comments about him came from those who are not really fans. I could be wrong, but I find it funny how it seems as if new members pop up on here calling for his head, then don't post when things are going good. Again, maybe I'm wrong, but that is what seems to have happened with a few of those posts.
As I said back then, we need to judge the season when it has been completed. That means I also cannot sit here and proclaim a victorious season just yet. Hopefully in March we can.
Bottom line is that this team is fun to watch again AND they have really been doing a good job since a very bad loss against Georgetown. Even though there were a few more losses after that game, they were in every one and lost by a small margin.
This has been an up and rising team since the middle of January. Let's hope it continues and let's enjoy it.
The next game will tell us a ton about where we are truly headed. Can't wait to watch it unfold!
As I said back then, we need to judge the season when it has been completed. That means I also cannot sit here and proclaim a victorious season just yet. Hopefully in March we can.
Bottom line is that this team is fun to watch again AND they have really been doing a good job since a very bad loss against Georgetown. Even though there were a few more losses after that game, they were in every one and lost by a small margin.
This has been an up and rising team since the middle of January. Let's hope it continues and let's enjoy it.
The next game will tell us a ton about where we are truly headed. Can't wait to watch it unfold!
Agree that when warranted, criticism is not wrong. But to start a thread on firing Lavin, and to stand up at a game and start a "Fire Lavin" chant is not criticism. It's extreme and I too wonder about the fans who are, or I should say, had been calling for his dismissal. I'll bet that if we lose to the Hall on Thursday, they'll be back.
beast of the east
Active member
Agree that when warranted, criticism is not wrong. But to start a thread on firing Lavin, and to stand up at a game and start a "Fire Lavin" chant is not criticism. It's extreme and I too wonder about the fans who are, or I should say, had been calling for his dismissal. I'll bet that if we lose to the Hall on Thursday, they'll be back.
Or, the taunts that we would go 0-18 in conference. I do understand that guys get frustrated and down on a team easily, but I'd be a little more understanding if we lost all 5 conference games by a combined 100 points.
Agree that when warranted, criticism is not wrong. But to start a thread on firing Lavin, and to stand up at a game and start a "Fire Lavin" chant is not criticism. It's extreme and I too wonder about the fans who are, or I should say, had been calling for his dismissal. I'll bet that if we lose to the Hall on Thursday, they'll be back.
I don't need to wait for a bad loss (which I hope never comes). And, I won't speak for anyone else, but if you asked me today I would still say I think Lavin should be let go after the season. Simply put I think the program could do better with a different coach. But, as long as he's here I hope he wins every game.
And I will continue to root for him. I agree that it's silly at this point (and somewhat disrespectful) to chant for him to be fired. So I haven't, and won't do that.
But I understand the perspective of those who were ready to start those chants. If fans don't express their displeasure, changes will be slow coming. Ray Handley might still be coaching the Giants.
indyredmen97
Member
I find it interesting how there is a built in narrative for coaches that rarely (if ever) seems to change. For example our 0-5 Big East start sends even our most "rational" posters into suggesting replacements for a vacancy that doesn't exist because of the perceived lack of skill of the coach. When, say, a Bo Ryan losses three conference games in a row and five of six in January (with a home loss to Michigan, at Minnesota, and home to Northwestern!), there isn't a peep about a program that peaks early and wears down midway through the grind of the conference season. We all assume that Ryan is a better coach because he has always won with lesser athletes but smart basketball kids who run his system well. We also just assume that the only reason that he doesn't get better players is because of the perception of the school not having the appeal of other programs, rather than the possibility that players with greater pro potential would rather a system that plays to their strengths and advances them to the professional level. You know, the reason most of us pick where we go to college.
Now I'm not suggesting that Lavin is a better coach than Ryan, his teams are far more consistent and his overall record is outstanding. My point is that many people came into this hiring underwhelmed, and have always found the narrative of "slick coach/used car salesman who can recruit but doesn't know his x's and o's" extremely comforting as a counterpoint to their desire to have a "master tactician who may not get the best players" argument. Nothing will change that...unless you coach as long as Boehiem, who had (but for the dressing acumen) that same rep at Syracuse before he won his national title.
Its rather ridiculous for posters to ask for an apology for Coach Lavin and his staff at this (or really any) point in the season...about as ridiculous as seeking his replacement was a few weeks back. I'm an unapologetic St. John's basketball fan and will do all of my "I told you so's" when the season is over...or while I'm good and drunk. In the meantime I'll ride this winning wave as long as it takes me.