Alumni Hall
Well-known member
Monte post=445830 said:
Anderson - is he really the guy ?
- Thread starter RedStormNC
- Start date
I'd be pretty happy if we reach the Tournament every other year, because once you're in anything can happen, though none of St. John's recent Tournament appearances have felt like that. It's been roughly 20 years since the team made the Tournament without a major "*"... Lavin year 1 Kennedy went down in March. Lavin year 5 CO got suspended in March. Mullin year 4 we didn't even make the real bracket. The bar isn't very high for CMA and most fans I think would be happy if he accomplished what he did previously in his career, but of course whether he will do that is very much up in the air.
Last edited:
Monte post=445823 said:
It's a great question, Monte. Although I am currently feeling hopeful and patient, I do want more for the program than dancing 30% of the time. In another post you mentioned dancing 3 out of every 5 years and an occasional top 25 ranking. I think that would bread sustained success in both recruiting and attendance. It would also have us at some exciting MSG games.
A different question is, given our facilities and recent lack of success, what is a reasonable expectation at this very moment? I don't know the answer, but the fan base (rightfully so) gets quickly irritated if we don't appear to be headed in the right direction. I think it's a fear that we will never get out of the abyss. I often feel that way too. Let's hope CMA ultimately lifts us up.
Last edited:
Count me in for every other year as well. Basically, based on history, that will get you in the top half of the BE as well. I would add that other than rarely, I wouldn't be pleased if the non-Tournament years were tenth or eleventh place BE finishes. I'm an exception but the overall journey matters to me each year. I especially care about conference play and would trade a BE tournament title for a one-win NCAA tournament season in a heartbeat. Considering people actually care about what a guy like Lunardi says in November I know that I am out of touch with the modern fan when it comes to that.Adam post=445833 said:
Monte, I was in the school who thought CMA an excellent hire given where we were and the alternatives. Like Adam I'd be very happy if he duplicated his 10 year record prior to the hire, 5 dances in 10 years with a couple of first round wins (although would like at least one sweet 16). To do that he has to dance 5 of the next 8 years which makes this year a must. I am not ready to say he can't repeat that record but this year is big imho.
We get way too high on CMA when we have nice big wins, and way too low on CMA when we have bad losses or brutal wins (NJIT).
We are not far into the season, we have yet to play a conference game, let's relax and watch the season unfold, catch a breath, and forget about the Anderson is the guy/Anderson is not the guy, for now at least.
I trust Fr. Shanley and Mike Cragg and where they are planning to take us. That may change down the road, but feel good about their leadership. They will decide the future, not us.
We are not far into the season, we have yet to play a conference game, let's relax and watch the season unfold, catch a breath, and forget about the Anderson is the guy/Anderson is not the guy, for now at least.
I trust Fr. Shanley and Mike Cragg and where they are planning to take us. That may change down the road, but feel good about their leadership. They will decide the future, not us.
I hear you BJR, and I also hear a lot of faith being placed in Fr. Shanley and Mike Cragg. But here's my question(for you or anyone): have they actually laid out a goal, a plan and a timeline? I know none of this is an exact science, and we may at times take 1 step forward and 2 steps back, but I have not yet heard of what the specific expectations are for the program, how they plan on getting there and how long they think it'll take to get there. Short of hearing something along those lines, I'm not buying anythingBrookJersey Redmen post=445841 said:
Monte, I am trusting people way closer to Fr. Shanley than me who say that he recognizes the importance of successful athletics to the success of the school and its academics. I think Fr. Shanley was brought in to propel the University in academics and as an adjunct to that he sees the models of other schools where success in athletics has raised the academics. A rising tide lifts all boats. As an academic and a priest (first) Fr. Shanley will not issue projections but I think quietly, he has goals and timetables on Men's BB (our Flagship), just not wanting to share them.
AD Cragg, has shown us he is a very good AD with a very nice pedigree and a lot of enthusiasm and some vision. Again, unlike an owner or GM of a professional franchise, I think it is a long-shot to expect him to lay out goals and time tables publicly for the program that we love. He has broader responsibilities and hopefully his plan is to make us a perennial BE upper tier contender which means a likely Tourney team. Time will tell.
That's just my take on that.
Shanley+ Providence; Cragg+ Duke, not a terrible resume.
AD Cragg, has shown us he is a very good AD with a very nice pedigree and a lot of enthusiasm and some vision. Again, unlike an owner or GM of a professional franchise, I think it is a long-shot to expect him to lay out goals and time tables publicly for the program that we love. He has broader responsibilities and hopefully his plan is to make us a perennial BE upper tier contender which means a likely Tourney team. Time will tell.
That's just my take on that.
Shanley+ Providence; Cragg+ Duke, not a terrible resume.
BJR,
Great posts. I guess part of this is just how you look at life in general. I always try to look at the bright side; while I am sometimes disappointed, usually the things I worry about never happen. We have hired staff from Duke, Providence & Arkansas all of which have had solid basketball programs over the past 10 years or so. To me that is reason for optimism, and I will give our program the benefit of the doubt for a year or two. Unlike faithful game patrons like Beast, IDRAFT & others attending all our games I am only watching on TV so just happy to have a decent team to root for again.
Great posts. I guess part of this is just how you look at life in general. I always try to look at the bright side; while I am sometimes disappointed, usually the things I worry about never happen. We have hired staff from Duke, Providence & Arkansas all of which have had solid basketball programs over the past 10 years or so. To me that is reason for optimism, and I will give our program the benefit of the doubt for a year or two. Unlike faithful game patrons like Beast, IDRAFT & others attending all our games I am only watching on TV so just happy to have a decent team to root for again.
I would add that unless there is a scandal I’m willing to wait a minimum of five years before the clock starts on my expectations. The sooner the better and right now would be grand but I’m sick of starting over every four years and see no evidence it works. Patience might not pay off either but it seems worth a shot to me.
Last edited:
beast of the east
Active member
Adam
if you remember Dj Kennedy went down in the BET game vs. Syracuse. We were ranked 17 at the time. I think we got an 11 or 12 seed and tourney officials said they took the injury into account else we earned a 4 or 5 seed.
CO got banned for the NCAA tourney for marijuana detected in his system which was totally on him, not realizing that it stays in his system for 30 days detectable. To compound team problems, Harrison was so badly banged up (shoulder) he was sat in a late season game at Nova who then blew our doors off. Obekpa was 5th in the nation in blocked shots. Harrison was a Wooden finalist and before the team tanked late (21-11 10-8) we were spoken as a team that could go deep in the tourney.
Mullins final team drew so much interest, we had our best attendance in 27 seasons. We were touted as a dark horse for the Final Four, and got out of the gates 12-0. We stumbled badly, recovered to be on the verge of clinching a good seed. At 8-7, we closed the regular season with 3 straight losses, a bet win, then embarrassing losses to marquette and az state. He was let go because that team should have been better.
There's nothing brilliant in wanting better. Everyone, EVERYONE wants to win more. Every coach except Roberts was paid more than his predecessor and in the good old days Lapchick, Carnesecca, Mulzoff were very underpaid. (Throw in Frank McGuire, who left for unc for a 2 grand raise, a 40% raise)
To be completely fair, when Looie retired, NO ONE wanted the job and many candidates told the committee to hire Mahoney. The rest is well documented. No one has come close to building a solid program and the last NBA star recruited was Artest.
Why won't top players come here? It's a fair question since arrest was recruited almost 25 years ago. Crappy facilities (not the arena) is probably #1, and the cost of a home run coach (probably 4-6 million at present) far beyond the pockets afforded by a weak donor base (4% of alumni donate).
This is part of Shanley and Cragg's largest problem in building a top notch winning program that will build a better brand and increase donations. Winner or not, basketball success have never brought in donations here the way they did when Georgetown, Duke, or Villanova won.
if you remember Dj Kennedy went down in the BET game vs. Syracuse. We were ranked 17 at the time. I think we got an 11 or 12 seed and tourney officials said they took the injury into account else we earned a 4 or 5 seed.
CO got banned for the NCAA tourney for marijuana detected in his system which was totally on him, not realizing that it stays in his system for 30 days detectable. To compound team problems, Harrison was so badly banged up (shoulder) he was sat in a late season game at Nova who then blew our doors off. Obekpa was 5th in the nation in blocked shots. Harrison was a Wooden finalist and before the team tanked late (21-11 10-8) we were spoken as a team that could go deep in the tourney.
Mullins final team drew so much interest, we had our best attendance in 27 seasons. We were touted as a dark horse for the Final Four, and got out of the gates 12-0. We stumbled badly, recovered to be on the verge of clinching a good seed. At 8-7, we closed the regular season with 3 straight losses, a bet win, then embarrassing losses to marquette and az state. He was let go because that team should have been better.
There's nothing brilliant in wanting better. Everyone, EVERYONE wants to win more. Every coach except Roberts was paid more than his predecessor and in the good old days Lapchick, Carnesecca, Mulzoff were very underpaid. (Throw in Frank McGuire, who left for unc for a 2 grand raise, a 40% raise)
To be completely fair, when Looie retired, NO ONE wanted the job and many candidates told the committee to hire Mahoney. The rest is well documented. No one has come close to building a solid program and the last NBA star recruited was Artest.
Why won't top players come here? It's a fair question since arrest was recruited almost 25 years ago. Crappy facilities (not the arena) is probably #1, and the cost of a home run coach (probably 4-6 million at present) far beyond the pockets afforded by a weak donor base (4% of alumni donate).
This is part of Shanley and Cragg's largest problem in building a top notch winning program that will build a better brand and increase donations. Winner or not, basketball success have never brought in donations here the way they did when Georgetown, Duke, or Villanova won.
Last edited:
Beast of the East wrote:
This is part of Shanley and Cragg's largest problem in building a top notch winning program that will build a better brand and increase donations. Winner or not, basketball success have never brought in donations here the way they did when Georgetown, Duke, or Villanova won.
Beast, there is no getting around the fact that Nova, Gtown & Duke are far superior academic institutions and that factors into alumni donations. Folks who graduated from those schools on average have more disposable income and also look on those institutions as highly responsible for their success. I know I donate far more to my high school than my college (not an SJU grad but another local commuter college) for exactly that reason.
This is part of Shanley and Cragg's largest problem in building a top notch winning program that will build a better brand and increase donations. Winner or not, basketball success have never brought in donations here the way they did when Georgetown, Duke, or Villanova won.
Beast, there is no getting around the fact that Nova, Gtown & Duke are far superior academic institutions and that factors into alumni donations. Folks who graduated from those schools on average have more disposable income and also look on those institutions as highly responsible for their success. I know I donate far more to my high school than my college (not an SJU grad but another local commuter college) for exactly that reason.
Last edited:
beast of the east
Active member
Very fair points, but the point is basketball success catapulted donations AND applications, all improving academic standing.
To a lesser extent, Providence basketball helped do the same for that school
To a lesser extent, Providence basketball helped do the same for that school
Beast of the East wrote:
Very fair points, but the point is basketball success catapulted donations AND applications, all improving academic standing.
To a lesser extent, Providence basketball helped do the same for that school.
Agree, and at least in 2010 when my daughter was applying to colleges and we considered and visited PC, it was a far better college than SJU from an academic perspective although nowhere near the other three mentioned.
Very fair points, but the point is basketball success catapulted donations AND applications, all improving academic standing.
To a lesser extent, Providence basketball helped do the same for that school.
Agree, and at least in 2010 when my daughter was applying to colleges and we considered and visited PC, it was a far better college than SJU from an academic perspective although nowhere near the other three mentioned.
NCJohnnie post=445865 said:
I would also add that to most of the old fogie posters on this board (myself included) STJ was always a commuter school. The first dorms were not opened until 1999. Commuter's tend to not develop nearly as strong a connection with their university as kids who live their young adult lives on or near their campus, which no doubt has an adverse impact on STJ donations leading to a lower budget for important university spending like basketball coaches.
I haven't read this entire thread and I am not sure anyone explicitly said this but all I want is to win a tournament game. Every year I am becoming less optimistic that is going to happen. Obviously we need to get into the tournament to do that.
I am concerned about this year and the tournament. I had hopes that we were going to land a third star player to go with Julian and Posh but that never materialized. I like Mathis because he can play the aggressive style of defense we need and Wusu is a dog like discussed in a very positive way. I wish Julian would move around the court more. Maybe that is the offense but he needs to find ways to get open. Also some screens for Coburn and Smith so maybe they knock down some shots would be nice. I am ok with the Nyiwe experiment. He is an interesting player and maybe can help us in the long run. Would like to see Stanley get some more minutes as he could wind up as a dog himself.
The next three games are huge. We have no room for error and have to improve heading into the Seton Hall game on the road.
As for the topic, I think Anderson was a good hire in terms of stabilizing the program. He is an ok coach for the budget the school has.
Beast of the East - I wish you had Repole's money. We would be in good hands then.
I am concerned about this year and the tournament. I had hopes that we were going to land a third star player to go with Julian and Posh but that never materialized. I like Mathis because he can play the aggressive style of defense we need and Wusu is a dog like discussed in a very positive way. I wish Julian would move around the court more. Maybe that is the offense but he needs to find ways to get open. Also some screens for Coburn and Smith so maybe they knock down some shots would be nice. I am ok with the Nyiwe experiment. He is an interesting player and maybe can help us in the long run. Would like to see Stanley get some more minutes as he could wind up as a dog himself.
The next three games are huge. We have no room for error and have to improve heading into the Seton Hall game on the road.
As for the topic, I think Anderson was a good hire in terms of stabilizing the program. He is an ok coach for the budget the school has.
Beast of the East - I wish you had Repole's money. We would be in good hands then.
The continue reference to Mr. Repole, or any other person stepping up to be the financial savior of St. John’s athletics is unfortunate.
Yeah, it would be great if a big whale stepped forward to fund St. John’s athletic goals but the reality is that the fan base at St. John’s does not provide the broad financial support in terms of participating donors which other schools enjoy. By broad financial support I am referring to actual number of donors who send in $100, $200, or whatever they can afford to allow Cragg and others to fund their goals.
If posters on this site don’t join the RedWhite club or send in a even a nominal donation to the St. John’s Athletic Department they can afford then I am at a loss to understand why anyone should expect a large financial donor to step up.
Beat Holiday Greetings.
Yeah, it would be great if a big whale stepped forward to fund St. John’s athletic goals but the reality is that the fan base at St. John’s does not provide the broad financial support in terms of participating donors which other schools enjoy. By broad financial support I am referring to actual number of donors who send in $100, $200, or whatever they can afford to allow Cragg and others to fund their goals.
If posters on this site don’t join the RedWhite club or send in a even a nominal donation to the St. John’s Athletic Department they can afford then I am at a loss to understand why anyone should expect a large financial donor to step up.
Beat Holiday Greetings.