Anderson - is he really the guy ?

[paultzman]

Year 4 seems very important for CMA obviously. 

Will staff raise the recruiting and transfer bars,  while retaining key players to have better season next year? That’s it in a nutshell. 

No sense suggesting coaching change and candidates at this point. I guess it may relieve fan frustration with disappointing results this year a bit.  With SJ having two returning BE All Stars and COY, I expected more, but did not factor in the roster turnover enough I guess.

In sports, expect the unexpected seems apropos. Let’s see where things go in Mike’s fourth season. I would think even with a solid contract, he knows winning is the bottom line. It would also be safe to assume he is disappointed with this season and as a competitive guy minimally wants results as badly as fans.

 

[kranmars]

We need better players, everyone on here agrees.   We can shut this down now tho till next year, because CMA is not going anywhere.

If we shut this thread down because Anderson is coming back, and we shut down the Carnesecca improvement thread because our alum/fans throw money around the university like manhole covers, this will be a very boring place.

Then you can also make the argument that post game threads should be eliminated. After all, how many different ways can we post about the team’s abysmal late game offense?

Soon we will all post in the “Old Guys Talking Hoops” while creating “Middle-Aged Guys Talking Hoops”, and “30 and Under Guys Talking Hoops.”

 

[Ray Morgan]

Adam wrote:
Thanks for that, I wasn't sure if it was related to his past injuries but good to know that it wasn't. Not sure which source you're referencing where he ended as a 4 star (on 247 Composite he's listed as a 3 star), but regardless that doesn't matter because like Champ he's a player who has clearly outperformed their ranking and was a great pickup.

As I've always said, we just need a lot more of those recruits, whether they be 4 stars or players who outperform their ranking.

Adam, he was a borderline 4 star - 4 star on some, 3 star on others but generally a top 125 player on all. See article at time of signing.
Four-star G Posh Alexander commits to St. John’s (usatodayhss.com) 

Gotcha, I'm aware of that at the time of his signing (article is prior to his senior year), but you said "He had a very strong senior year and wound up ranked as a 4 star." On 247 Composite, which averages all of the recruiting rankings, he's listed as #300 nationally and 3 star. I don't think he ever returned to 4 star status as a recruit, that's all I was getting at there.

Regardless that doesn't matter. Him and Champ were great pickups and their HS rankings were clearly off (everyone can agree on that). I was just curious if his current injury was related to his HS injury which is why I asked initially. Glad that it isn't, so hopefully it won't be something that lingers.

As Beast said, bottom line is we need better players. I don't care if they're 4 stars, 3 stars who outperform their ranking, solid transfers, JUCOs, etc. We just need better players.


When competing in a major conference, you need 4 star recruits. Not an entire team of them, but 2 or 3 for starters. Hoping your 3 star recruits out perform their rankings may work once in a while, but it's not how the top schools do it.  It's especially difficult to win with 3 star players now, since they may take longer to develop and  will end up transferring anyway.
 

 

[monte]

Year 4 seems very important for CMA obviously. 

Will staff raise the recruiting and transfer bars,  while retaining key players to have better season next year? That’s it in a nutshell. 

No sense suggesting coaching change and candidates at this point. I guess it may relieve fan frustration with disappointing results this year a bit.  With SJ having two returning BE All Stars and COY, I expected more, but did not factor in the roster turnover enough I guess.

In sports, expect the unexpected seems apropos. Let’s see where things go in Mike’s fourth season. I would think even with a solid contract, he knows winning is the bottom line. It would also be safe to assume he is disappointed with this season and as a competitive guy minimally wants results as badly as fans.

As usual, spot on Paultz. We're all frustrated except for the few posters who are convinced that we are undoubtedly headed in the right direction. The majority of us are taking a "wait and see" approach to both CMA and the possible moves(new facilities, etc) by the administration. No matter how many times posters call for his head, CMA isn't going anywhere for now. Nor should he. And no matter how many times posters preach optimism, after decades of futility it's going to take "actions" not "words" to make most of us feel optimistic. So, for now, we hope for the best and root for the team. Not much else we can do. 

 

[beast of the east]

We need better players, everyone on here agrees.   We can shut this down now tho till next year, because CMA is not going anywhere.

If we shut this thread down because Anderson is coming back, and we shut down the Carnesecca improvement thread because our alum/fans throw money around the university like manhole covers, this will be a very boring place.

Then you can also make the argument that post game threads should be eliminated. After all, how many different ways can we post about the team’s abysmal late game offense?

Soon we will all post in the “Old Guys Talking Hoops” while creating “Middle-Aged Guys Talking Hoops”, and “30 and Under Guys Talking Hoops.”

Haha.  Now you're talking!!!

Imagine if Arcidiacono got injured during Villanova's run to the 1st chanmpionship.

Imagine if any best player on any team went into the tank for a good chunk of this season.

Most every team in the NCAA except for super stacked rosters, could not survive these events.   Admittedly we don't have as much high level talent beyond those two - but we do have a decent number of guys who would provide value on a winning team here.    We just could not have any decent sustained level of success without both Posh and Julian playing together at the levels we know they are capable of.

 

[monte]

We need better players, everyone on here agrees.   We can shut this down now tho till next year, because CMA is not going anywhere.

If we shut this thread down because Anderson is coming back, and we shut down the Carnesecca improvement thread because our alum/fans throw money around the university like manhole covers, this will be a very boring place.

Then you can also make the argument that post game threads should be eliminated. After all, how many different ways can we post about the team’s abysmal late game offense?

Soon we will all post in the “Old Guys Talking Hoops” while creating “Middle-Aged Guys Talking Hoops”, and “30 and Under Guys Talking Hoops.”

Haha.  Now you're talking!!!

Imagine if Arcidiacono got injured during Villanova's run to the 1st chanmpionship.

Imagine if any best player on any team went into the tank for a good chunk of this season.

Most every team in the NCAA except for super stacked rosters, could not survive these events.   Admittedly we don't have as much high level talent beyond those two - but we do have a decent number of guys who would provide value on a winning team here.    We just could not have any decent sustained level of success without both Posh and Julian playing together at the levels we know they are capable of.

Assuming everyone except Champ returns next season, we are a pure shooter, solid low post player and back-up ball handler away from being a very good team. Those same 3 pieces are missing this season. Maybe Pinzon would have been the back up PG this season, and could he next season. I say "maybe" because we haven't seen enough of a sample size. However if he turns out to be a solid back up to Posh, we need to go hard after a swing man sharpshooter and low post player who can make an impact. I like Soriano a lot, and think he'll get better next season, but we will need more then the combo of Soriano, Stanley, Nyiwe and Triore  if we are going to improve next season. 

 

[ADORAZ]

Despite my pessimism about CMA's future, I absolutely do think it's the right call to keep him here for a fourth year. 100%.

It's unfortunate that the firing of our last 2 coaches had so much controversy, and that needs to be avoided. People were pretty split on Lavin at the time (in hindsight I think most would've kept him), and Mullin still did have some support which mostly stemmed from his time here as a player. Nobody truly knew until March whether Lavin or Mullin would be let go, and that of course led to the rushed hiring of CMA. If we were to repeat that this off-season I doubt we'd get our first or even second pick.

If our team doesn't improve a year or two from now, hopefully at least 90%+ of fans are on the same page and a new coach can be brought in (regardless of the extension). Teams like Louisville and Maryland have all the time in the world to select a new coach, and most other teams know before March that they'd be making a change. I don't like waiting another year (or more), but waiting is the right move for now.

 

[beast of the east]

We need better players, everyone on here agrees.   We can shut this down now tho till next year, because CMA is not going anywhere.

If we shut this thread down because Anderson is coming back, and we shut down the Carnesecca improvement thread because our alum/fans throw money around the university like manhole covers, this will be a very boring place.

Then you can also make the argument that post game threads should be eliminated. After all, how many different ways can we post about the team’s abysmal late game offense?

Soon we will all post in the “Old Guys Talking Hoops” while creating “Middle-Aged Guys Talking Hoops”, and “30 and Under Guys Talking Hoops.”

Haha.  Now you're talking!!!

Imagine if Arcidiacono got injured during Villanova's run to the 1st chanmpionship.

Imagine if any best player on any team went into the tank for a good chunk of this season.

Most every team in the NCAA except for super stacked rosters, could not survive these events.   Admittedly we don't have as much high level talent beyond those two - but we do have a decent number of guys who would provide value on a winning team here.    We just could not have any decent sustained level of success without both Posh and Julian playing together at the levels we know they are capable of.

Assuming everyone except Champ returns next season, we are a pure shooter, solid low post player and back-up ball handler away from being a very good team. Those same 3 pieces are missing this season. Maybe Pinzon would have been the back up PG this season, and could he next season. I say "maybe" because we haven't seen enough of a sample size. However if he turns out to be a solid back up to Posh, we need to go hard after a swing man sharpshooter and low post player who can make an impact. I like Soriano a lot, and think he'll get better next season, but we will need more then the combo of Soriano, Stanley, Nyiwe and Triore  if we are going to improve next season. 

 

If we get crazy for a minute and think Champ returns and plays at a level he has demonstrated before, if Posh is healthy, and Wheeler settles in as #3 option, considering all the other pieces who could improve (given that CMA players do improve) and we can count on better seasons from Wasu, Soriano, and Stanley.   Pinzon will essentially be a freshman, and with other freshmen and transfers we could be a surprising team.  

A lot of ifs, and there likely will be some transfers in and out, but the outlook isn't horrible.  Of course, someone would have to step up for Champ if he goes (which appears likely).   Anyone entering the portal can be recruited hard if they are an impact level talent where they would get the ball here.

 

[monte]

We need better players, everyone on here agrees.   We can shut this down now tho till next year, because CMA is not going anywhere.

If we shut this thread down because Anderson is coming back, and we shut down the Carnesecca improvement thread because our alum/fans throw money around the university like manhole covers, this will be a very boring place.

Then you can also make the argument that post game threads should be eliminated. After all, how many different ways can we post about the team’s abysmal late game offense?

Soon we will all post in the “Old Guys Talking Hoops” while creating “Middle-Aged Guys Talking Hoops”, and “30 and Under Guys Talking Hoops.”

Haha.  Now you're talking!!!

Imagine if Arcidiacono got injured during Villanova's run to the 1st chanmpionship.

Imagine if any best player on any team went into the tank for a good chunk of this season.

Most every team in the NCAA except for super stacked rosters, could not survive these events.   Admittedly we don't have as much high level talent beyond those two - but we do have a decent number of guys who would provide value on a winning team here.    We just could not have any decent sustained level of success without both Posh and Julian playing together at the levels we know they are capable of.

Assuming everyone except Champ returns next season, we are a pure shooter, solid low post player and back-up ball handler away from being a very good team. Those same 3 pieces are missing this season. Maybe Pinzon would have been the back up PG this season, and could he next season. I say "maybe" because we haven't seen enough of a sample size. However if he turns out to be a solid back up to Posh, we need to go hard after a swing man sharpshooter and low post player who can make an impact. I like Soriano a lot, and think he'll get better next season, but we will need more then the combo of Soriano, Stanley, Nyiwe and Triore  if we are going to improve next season. 



 

If we get crazy for a minute and think Champ returns and plays at a level he has demonstrated before, if Posh is healthy, and Wheeler settles in as #3 option, considering all the other pieces who could improve (given that CMA players do improve) and we can count on better seasons from Wasu, Soriano, and Stanley.   Pinzon will essentially be a freshman, and with other freshmen and transfers we could be a surprising team.  

A lot of ifs, and there likely will be some transfers in and out, but the outlook isn't horrible.  Of course, someone would have to step up for Champ if he goes (which appears likely).   Anyone entering the portal can be recruited hard if they are an impact level talent where they would get the ball here.

I could be wrong, but I don't get the sense that sticking around for another year is even a remote consideration for Champ. As for who will pick up the slack for him, also hoping it's Wheeler along with Storr and a sharpshooter that we bring in. While an improvement from all of our players is a fair expectation, I don't think we'll see enough of an improvement from any/all of them significant enough to move the needle much. We'll need an infusion of additional  talent, especially with the loss of Champ. 

 

[ohiofan]

We need better players, everyone on here agrees.   We can shut this down now tho till next year, because CMA is not going anywhere.

If we shut this thread down because Anderson is coming back, and we shut down the Carnesecca improvement thread because our alum/fans throw money around the university like manhole covers, this will be a very boring place.

Then you can also make the argument that post game threads should be eliminated. After all, how many different ways can we post about the team’s abysmal late game offense?

Soon we will all post in the “Old Guys Talking Hoops” while creating “Middle-Aged Guys Talking Hoops”, and “30 and Under Guys Talking Hoops.”

Haha.  Now you're talking!!!

Imagine if Arcidiacono got injured during Villanova's run to the 1st chanmpionship.

Imagine if any best player on any team went into the tank for a good chunk of this season.

Most every team in the NCAA except for super stacked rosters, could not survive these events.   Admittedly we don't have as much high level talent beyond those two - but we do have a decent number of guys who would provide value on a winning team here.    We just could not have any decent sustained level of success without both Posh and Julian playing together at the levels we know they are capable of.

Assuming everyone except Champ returns next season, we are a pure shooter, solid low post player and back-up ball handler away from being a very good team. Those same 3 pieces are missing this season. Maybe Pinzon would have been the back up PG this season, and could he next season. I say "maybe" because we haven't seen enough of a sample size. However if he turns out to be a solid back up to Posh, we need to go hard after a swing man sharpshooter and low post player who can make an impact. I like Soriano a lot, and think he'll get better next season, but we will need more then the combo of Soriano, Stanley, Nyiwe and Triore  if we are going to improve next season. 

Monte, I think we will need more than one sharpshooter, maybe all three should be instead of a a swing and a big.

 

[RedmanMike]

I've seen it mentioned many times here that Champ won't be here next year.  Is that a certainty?  Right now, it seems as though is stock is slipping relative to where it was in the off-season.  So if his goal is the NBA, wouldn't he be better served to stay for his senior year?  Or is he going to leave regardless even if that means playing overseas?

 

[monte]

Despite my pessimism about CMA's future, I absolutely do think it's the right call to keep him here for a fourth year. 100%.

It's unfortunate that the firing of our last 2 coaches had so much controversy, and that needs to be avoided. People were pretty split on Lavin at the time (in hindsight I think most would've kept him), and Mullin still did have some support which mostly stemmed from his time here as a player. Nobody truly knew until March whether Lavin or Mullin would be let go, and that of course led to the rushed hiring of CMA. If we were to repeat that this off-season I doubt we'd get our first or even second pick.

If our team doesn't improve a year or two from now, hopefully at least 90%+ of fans are on the same page and a new coach can be brought in (regardless of the extension). Teams like Louisville and Maryland have all the time in the world to select a new coach, and most other teams know before March that they'd be making a change. I don't like waiting another year (or more), but waiting is the right move for now.

Two thoughts: First, I think the team will show just enough improvement over the next year or two to keep CMA's job safe for a while longer. Second, I think CMA gets a much longer leash then any coach we've had since Lou. Even longer then Norm. IMO the next 2 years would have to be almost disastrous(IE huge roster turnover, bottom of Big East finishes, etc)  for the school to even consider getting rid of CMA after year 5. No way I see them getting rid of him after year 4 no matter what the results are. 

 

[guinness77]

I've seen it mentioned many times here that Champ won't be here next year.  Is that a certainty?  Right now, it seems as though is stock is slipping relative to where it was in the off-season.  So if his goal is the NBA, wouldn't he be better served to stay for his senior year?  Or is he going to leave regardless even if that means playing overseas?

I completely agree with this. Unless he catches serious fire in the next month, he’s not getting drafted. Does he stand a better chance, maybe, making the NBA from here (or another D1 school) or from overseas? I would guess here.

 

[redmen4life]

I've seen it mentioned many times here that Champ won't be here next year.  Is that a certainty?  Right now, it seems as though is stock is slipping relative to where it was in the off-season.  So if his goal is the NBA, wouldn't he be better served to stay for his senior year?  Or is he going to leave regardless even if that means playing overseas?

I completely agree with this. Unless he catches serious fire in the next month, he’s not getting drafted. Does he stand a better chance, maybe, making the NBA from here (or another D1 school) or from overseas? I would guess here.

he's leaving.  

these past 2 weeks he's been knocked around quite a bit: stiches over the eye, finger jam, fall on his back.  way too much risk of injury to come back.  

 

[monte]

Seems like Champ's draft position about same as last year. Doubt he comes back in hopes of improving his position, but possible I guess.

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2022-2nd-round/

 

 

[room112]

I've seen it mentioned many times here that Champ won't be here next year.  Is that a certainty?  Right now, it seems as though is stock is slipping relative to where it was in the off-season.  So if his goal is the NBA, wouldn't he be better served to stay for his senior year?  Or is he going to leave regardless even if that means playing overseas?

Champ is not returning. From what I've heard, he has a chance to graduate in 3 years. Coming back next year is not going to help his draft position. He was always going to be a fringe 2nd round pick, and he already received the feedback from the NBA camps. He will have to play his way onto an NBA roster just like his brother did. Nobody should be expecting him back.

 

[room112]

CMA's biggest recruit for next year is named Posh Alexander. If he isn't able to retain him and Posh opts to transfer, I'm expecting the worst. At least with Posh back, you have something you can build around with transfers/JUCO's and the pieces already on the roster. 

 

[ADORAZ]

Despite my pessimism about CMA's future, I absolutely do think it's the right call to keep him here for a fourth year. 100%.

It's unfortunate that the firing of our last 2 coaches had so much controversy, and that needs to be avoided. People were pretty split on Lavin at the time (in hindsight I think most would've kept him), and Mullin still did have some support which mostly stemmed from his time here as a player. Nobody truly knew until March whether Lavin or Mullin would be let go, and that of course led to the rushed hiring of CMA. If we were to repeat that this off-season I doubt we'd get our first or even second pick.

If our team doesn't improve a year or two from now, hopefully at least 90%+ of fans are on the same page and a new coach can be brought in (regardless of the extension). Teams like Louisville and Maryland have all the time in the world to select a new coach, and most other teams know before March that they'd be making a change. I don't like waiting another year (or more), but waiting is the right move for now.

Two thoughts: First, I think the team will show just enough improvement over the next year or two to keep CMA's job safe for a while longer. Second, I think CMA gets a much longer leash then any coach we've had since Lou. Even longer then Norm. IMO the next 2 years would have to be almost disastrous(IE huge roster turnover, bottom of Big East finishes, etc)  for the school to even consider getting rid of CMA after year 5. No way I see them getting rid of him after year 4 no matter what the results are. 

I hope you're both right (about improvements) and wrong (about his job security). I'd guess whether he's still here after 4/5 years would come down to whether his extension has a reasonable buyout and how bad attendance gets. If we're on the wrong side of the NIT bubble a year from now and attendance gets even worse, then it's tough to imagine him being here for much longer. I do think COVID is playing a factor this year, but I also think the much larger issue is most fans have lost faith in our coach/team. Fans were already given false hope year 1 (midway through season and end of season), year 2 (midway through season) and now year 3 (pre-season). Does anyone have an idea about how much ticket revenue we've lost this year, compared to the last time we made the Tournament in 2019?

I assume you think he has a longer leash than Mullin/Lavin because of the extension, which would be a shame if things don't improve and we're having this same discussion two years from now solely because of that. 

 

[GardenCity62]

In addition to the Father Shanley, Mike Cragg plan to improve facilities to raise this dormant program I’d like to propose Plan B. SJU aligns itself with one of prestigious AAU programs in the Metro area ,hires an asst coach from the AAU program and tries to build a relationship similar to that of Riverside Church which flourished for many years until it blew up.
If this coach can lead one or two players to SJU , the dying program can change overnight.
There are so many SJU possible fans out there who wouldn’t dream of attending a game but if a stud or two can be brought   in that outlook would change very quickly, long before any facility upgrades are made.
This type of arrangement may not be what the board would like and it may be impossible for SJU to make it but I can dream.

 

[monte]

Despite my pessimism about CMA's future, I absolutely do think it's the right call to keep him here for a fourth year. 100%.

It's unfortunate that the firing of our last 2 coaches had so much controversy, and that needs to be avoided. People were pretty split on Lavin at the time (in hindsight I think most would've kept him), and Mullin still did have some support which mostly stemmed from his time here as a player. Nobody truly knew until March whether Lavin or Mullin would be let go, and that of course led to the rushed hiring of CMA. If we were to repeat that this off-season I doubt we'd get our first or even second pick.

If our team doesn't improve a year or two from now, hopefully at least 90%+ of fans are on the same page and a new coach can be brought in (regardless of the extension). Teams like Louisville and Maryland have all the time in the world to select a new coach, and most other teams know before March that they'd be making a change. I don't like waiting another year (or more), but waiting is the right move for now.

Two thoughts: First, I think the team will show just enough improvement over the next year or two to keep CMA's job safe for a while longer. Second, I think CMA gets a much longer leash then any coach we've had since Lou. Even longer then Norm. IMO the next 2 years would have to be almost disastrous(IE huge roster turnover, bottom of Big East finishes, etc)  for the school to even consider getting rid of CMA after year 5. No way I see them getting rid of him after year 4 no matter what the results are. 

I hope you're both right (about improvements) and wrong (about his job security). I'd guess whether he's still here after 4/5 years would come down to whether his extension has a reasonable buyout and how bad attendance gets. If we're on the wrong side of the NIT bubble a year from now and attendance gets even worse, then it's tough to imagine him being here for much longer. I do think COVID is playing a factor this year, but I also think the much larger issue is most fans have lost faith in our coach/team. Fans were already given false hope year 1 (midway through season and end of season), year 2 (midway through season) and now year 3 (pre-season). Does anyone have an idea about how much ticket revenue we've lost this year, compared to the last time we made the Tournament in 2019?

I assume you think he has a longer leash than Mullin/Lavin because of the extension, which would be a shame if things don't improve and we're having this same discussion two years from now solely because of that. 

I assume he has a longer leash for a number of reasons. Amongst them;
-Our history of hiring bad coaches. No guarantee the next hire will be better 
-He was touted as a "home run hire". No one, least of all Cragg, wants to look bad after making that kind of hire until they really have no choice
-There is no questioning his work ethic and character, and that does count for a lot
-He's an integral part of the trio who is supposed to resurrect our program
-We're already hearing plenty of excuses for why he can't succeed right now. So it seems to me like the administration is already laying the ground work for a very long term rebuild
-The contract extension, whether symbolic or not, says to me "CMA isn't going anywhere for a very long time"

Anyhow these are all my opinions. I may be right or I may be wrong. But I'm usually right way more than I'm wrong lol